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Thanatos

Game of Thrones Final Season **SPOILER WARNING**

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We all know in our heart of hearts Varys is right. She has got to go. I’ve been saying it for awhile now, she’s just more of the same, no different than all the others before. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Barracuda
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1 hour ago, Barracuda said:

We all know in our heart of hearts Varys is right. She has got to go. I’ve been saying it for awhile now, she’s just more of the same, no different than all the others before. 

Let Cersei and Dany destroy themselves and put the true heir to the throne on the throne! I was on Team Dany for a long time because the divide was clear.  But with the team up with Jon and revealing of his heritage.. And now seeing the divide and disdain Dany has for him -- I agree, she must go. Dany trying to strong arm Jon into keeping his heritage a secret from his own family... Bitch. Last straw right there. She's obviously going to attack full out , right? Gonna lose the support of the people... Best case scenario for her is to retreat to Essos, try unite and control the cities there. I don't think she would be OK with that but who cares what she wants. Lol

Imagine Cersei's prophecy fulfilling by slaughtering Jaime / Tyrion / Both but then Arya wears one of their faces and slits her mother fucking throat. That would be some goooood shit right there and sets Jon up to take the thrones regardless of Dany's desires. Not saying that is exactly how it will play out but that idea is at leats what they are going for -- right? Arya and the Hound traveling south both of which have unfinished business? Nod to Clegane Bowl and Cersei being on Arya's list... GOOOOOOOOD SHIT IS ON THE WAY BOIS!!!!!  Mountain dying , Cersei dying... that about wraps up Arya's list, right?

EDIT: Also just wanted to say. great ass episode. Awesome follow up to a huge battle and foreshadowing what is to come.

"Tyrion... what if there is someone else?" 

Damn fucking right. I remember Trident always talking about how awesome Sansa is/was. Didn't start happening until the last season and now we're full out awesome in the final season.

Edited by DalaiLama4Ever

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Bitch that was me. Sansa was setting her self up as a major player in the books, but gurm will never finish them so *shrug*

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First half of the episode was 10/10 Thrones at its best. Second half was...a little messy. Cramming too much into one episode, too many contrived plot turns. Next week should be epic though.

Also holy shit it's BradyFan!

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2 hours ago, RazorStar said:

Bitch that was me. Sansa was setting her self up as a major player in the books, but gurm will never finish them so *shrug*

You sure ? Lol. My bad haha. 

Also the rumor mill says TWOW is done. Honestly, I didn’t think he had any pressure to get them done / published before the show ended. This way the show will end, everyone will want more Thrones and then conveniently the book will be done and ready to be published. 

Plus, he had to write his books on Targaryen history ya know !! Lol 

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Dragons are not nearly as powerful as once thought. That thing was done in a matter of seconds.

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26 minutes ago, Barracuda said:

Dragons are not nearly as powerful as once thought. That thing was done in a matter of seconds.

They had like 100% accuracy with those ballista lmao. Something tells me that number drops in the next episode 

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Very true. 

 

Dany is gonna all out try and fuck everyone up Mad King style. Unless, Tyrion and Jon  can talk her out of it, but Tyrion hasn’t had much luck doing that the past season or two.

 

 

 

 

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I mean, I did ask for consequences for fuckups. But dear lord was that incredibly fucking stupid on Dany's part. Firmly on team Jon now.

Official reason? "Dany kinda forgot about Eurons fleet." - Benioff, the writer, producer, creator of the show. Uh huh. The fleet that they were talking about like less than a day earlier, that fleet? The one they specifically said they would use the dragons to take out? Knowing the Lannisters had weapons that could at least hurt dragons from when she toasted Jaime's army back in S7? I mean at least have a damn scout, lol.

This had some good moments, but just more epic fuckups in writing things that simply stretch the imagination to the breaking point. Just godawful strategy from the "good" guys the last two episodes.

This entire assault on King's Landing makes absolutely zero sense. Arya and Sansa are 100% correct for two reasons. A) You rest your men after a war. Even her dragons were hurt and needed a breather. And B) The majority of Cersei's forces are MERCENARIES. This isn't like some "pay for me once and I'm done with it, I'll follow you forever" like the Unsullied. This is the Golden Company, a renowned and revered mercenary company. A very, very, expensive renowned and revered mercenary company, assuming we're still roughly following the books.

Let them sit in King's Landing and rot. Dany has been fixated on the actual throne instead of ruling the very actual kingdom she could rule. From Winterfell or wherever else she wants to. Let Cersei sit in King's Landing. She can't pay the Golden Company forever. Stay off the ocean because Euron has a much larger fleet than you do- if you have any at all- stay in Winterfell and lick your wounds for awhile, then begin cutting off all supply lines to the city. She can't pay the Golden Company forever. I do not understand why Dany is under the impression that the longer they wait, the more powerful Cersei gets. The opposite is true.

What's so dumb is that Dany *was already doing exactly this strategy.*

In season 7, destroying the supplies is the reason she attacks Jaime's army in the first place. What happened to that perfectly understandable and feasible strategy? Dany has gone on full on mad queen/idiot queen.

Also Brienne going all weeping maiden over Jaime leaving is entirely out of character. Just a minor annoyance compared to the rest, but it just irked me a bit. Don't get that at all.

Good bits:

Bronn with Tyrion and Jaime was fucking hilarious, the Starks in the woods scene was fantastic, and Gendry getting shot down by Arya made perfect sense and came off very well. The conversations between Vayrs and Tyrion make me think Vayrs is about to try to pull something to possibly assassinate Dany. I know that seems like a drastic overstep, but if he actually pulled it off, I don't know.

Clegane and Sansa talking was a great callback. Heartbroken Tormund was hilarious.

Like the Stark girls, I have zero trust in Daenarys any longer. If she wins she will go full on Mad Queen. 

 

Edited by Thanatos
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Man I kind of wish that they just never brought Ghost back. The way Ghost has been handled in the show is absolute trash. The actors do such a great job and that's really the only thing that makes this show enjoyable at this point. Why did Jon suddenly just lose his balls and stop fighting for his people? I was expecting him to say Sansa was right after he told her the North would remain true to their promise. Jon never wanted to rule, that much is true but him not speaking on behalf of his people is totally out of character. You would think Davos would be quick to knock some sense into his head. This episode was fucking awful in so many way. 

I already said before that they could EASILY assassinate Cersei with the former spy master of Kings Landing with the most intimate knowledge of every nook and cranny of that jawn save Bran and MAYBE Qybern and a fucking faceless assassin. 

Her making tactical errors can be explained I think by Jorah's death just being the last remaining thread of her sanity and she isn't making rational decisions but to that extent? Like Than said, no scouts were sent that might notice an entire fleet of ships? If they wanted to make Euron a badass, why not have him go prove himself to Cersei with a few guys and kill Rhaegal and light a bunch of her ships on fire or something kind of like Ramsay Bolton did to Stannis? Instead they just make him the best scorpion bolt operator in the history of Westeros?

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It's because they've got to rush to hit all of these checkmarks they had for the season, and no time for characters to act rationally, only cinematic dragon riding. Ghost got done so dirty, like yeah, that's the reaction you have to your dog that you've raised since he was a puppy? Come the fuck on, don't do Jon like that. Also if the writers really wanted to establish Cersei as a threat, she would have just fired the Ballistas on Drogon chilling out there (because apparently effective range is super long) and pin cushion Tyrion with her archer when he strode up. You kill both of her dragons, and her hand and you don't even have to do a thing because they waltz up to your fucking gates and say "oh kill me please". 

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Just really dumb they made Jon into solemn oath guy. All of the sudden he doesn't give a fuck about the people he promised to defend because he swore an oath to Dany? Jon isn't Ned Stark 2.0. He grew into his OWN man at the wall (with Ghost at his side the whole time). He's a man that knows the cost of war. He's man of courage that does the right thing even when it's hard because people's lives depend on it. When he was with the Mance and the wildlings and the halfhand he learned a similar lesson as what Jaimie spoke about in one of his conversations with Catelyn about oath's. He even said as much (well kind of) when they all had their big meeting with Cersei. You're telling me THAT guy just rolls over and betrays the oath he swore to all those men that just died for him and all those men who continue to follow him and fight for him? He's not even going to TRY to speak for them and say they need to rest.

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He’s always been a man of his word. He feels like he owes Dany for what he promised her and the assistance and sacrifice she made to help him end the war of the dead. 

I don’t think him carrying out his promise to her means he doesn’t care about the Northerners at all. I think he’s obviously conflicted and trying to juggle all of it once. If literally all he cared about was keeping his word to Dany you wouldn’t have seen the scene in the forest the same way at all. 

The stuff with Ghost was bad. And it isn’t an excuse for the .... bad-ness. But the people running the show have never liked how the dire wolf CGI has come out or how it interacts with real people/actors. Could’ve and should’ve they just dealt with it and taken the blame for it looking choppy or fake or whatever ? Probably . Instead im just gonna sit here and lie to myself that they had a moment. That their bond is so close and their psychic stark/dire wolf vibe was on full tilt and understood exactly what was going on in a deep and impactful way. 

Also Sean, I think you have to come off this “ they could’ve killed Cersei at any time “ stuff. You’re not wrong but you can say that about any character at about any point in time in any piece of literature of film... lol. Why didn’t Arya just leave Bravos and go immediately to hit all of her list in quick succession? She has the means and ability... why not just get it over with so we could end the show like 3 years ago. Lol . Quick somebody call George Martin and tell him he doesn’t need to finish his books because we’ve already solved it here in a matter of moments. 

Mans for as much sense as Dany isn’t making right now, it does make perfect sense. Everyone around her is dying... Jorah puts her on edge. Then she’s dealing with Jons truth which makes her reinforce in her own mind her “destiny”. Then Rhaegal goes down... then Missandai. She’s trying to fight those urges to just go full out Mad Queen (such as listening to Varys/Tyrion about not going on full out assault right away). But she’s losing that battle with herself. She’s always been the hero for the most part. This is her heel turn . 

It seems really rushed, liked much of these plots because of exactly what Razor is saying and what I’ve been saying for the last few pages. These guys only got a meat and potatoes outline from GRRM. They could’ve easily turned these last two seasons into like 4. But to draw these really complicated plots out and explore them more in depth, they’d literally have to fabricate everything. Dialogues, interactions,emotions, thoughts, actions, reactions. Obviously they’ve done that to an extent already, but not like they would’ve had to otherwise. If you’ve been disappointed by this season, I think you should be happy they didn’t go with Plan B. 

They got what they got from George, they put a clock on it and this is what we got. A severely condensed version of history. 

I’m more than content watching this to it’s end and letting George tell the full account of events in the detail they deserve and we desire. 

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Something has been itching at me ever since season 7, and now that Razor and F4E have alluded to it, I want to try to spell it out...

Moving past GRRM's source material has exposed Benioff and Weiss for their lack of ability to balance--if that's the right word--the storytelling. In the first six seasons, this wasn't so much a problem because there were always between five and eight plotlines going on throughout Westeros and Essos. So it was pretty easy to spread things out, make sure each episode had some sort of climactic moment, and methodically build each season up to its own climax.

Now that all the plotlines have formed into our final conflict, everything feels very rushed. In the span of one episode we go from the mass funeral at Winterfell to the preparation of the big battle in King's Landing. Oh, and in between: Drogon  destroyed by Euron, Missandei beheaded, Jon's identity revealed to everyone, Varys plotting to turn against Daenerys.

I'm not saying it's terrible or that the show has lost itself or anything like that. It's just a little jarring for a show that had a consistent feel and pace to it for six seasons to suddenly turn into this.

I hope some of this makes sense.

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@DalaiLama4Ever, As far as the Arya bit, No she couldn't have just gone and assisnated anyone. It took her the whole series to become who she is. She was also a servant of the many faced god and the house of black and white. She had to kill the waif and Jaquen Hagar to even be able to reclaim her identity and return home. She was already on her way to kill Cersei before she heard Jon was king in the North so she changed plans. She's riding to Kings Landing right now to kill Cersei so what wouldn't she just tell Dany and Jon? I think given her track record that Dany would let her try to end the war instead of torching Kings Landing.

I think they could have made it make sense and be consistent even if they were forced to jump around and rushed. Benioff and Weiss are fucking hacks. If you had a team of writers at your disposal I guarantee this shit would have been better and I guarantee you I could say the same for a lot of people that post in this thread. 

Anyone that puts this in discussions with Breaking Bad as the best show in TV history is waayyy off base. Breaking Bad just ended fucking perfectly. 

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8 hours ago, SteVo said:

Something has been itching at me ever since season 7, and now that Razor and F4E have alluded to it, I want to try to spell it out...

Moving past GRRM's source material has exposed Benioff and Weiss for their lack of ability to balance--if that's the right word--the storytelling. In the first six seasons, this wasn't so much a problem because there were always between five and eight plotlines going on throughout Westeros and Essos. So it was pretty easy to spread things out, make sure each episode had some sort of climactic moment, and methodically build each season up to its own climax.

Now that all the plotlines have formed into our final conflict, everything feels very rushed. In the span of one episode we go from the mass funeral at Winterfell to the preparation of the big battle in King's Landing. Oh, and in between: Drogon  destroyed by Euron, Missandei beheaded, Jon's identity revealed to everyone, Varys plotting to turn against Daenerys.

I'm not saying it's terrible or that the show has lost itself or anything like that. It's just a little jarring for a show that had a consistent feel and pace to it for six seasons to suddenly turn into this.

I hope some of this makes sense.

Agreed with everything, but it wasn't Drogon who died, it was Rhaegal.

I also want to air my biggest gripe with the show, and it may seem a bit silly how minor it is. But they have done Euron SUCH a fucking disservice.

Euron "Crows-Eye" Greyjoy is an absolute fucking badass, not some stereotypical bad guy who just wants to fuck Cersei. Euron found the Horn of Winter that can take down the wall. Euron summoned a god damn Kraken out of the sea to attack his enemies. He has literally sailed to the edge of the known world and is the only person in Westeros to survive the trip beyond. Euron Greyjoy, all on his lonesome, concocted a plan during Robert's Rebellion to sail into Lannisport and torch the Lannister fleet, which he put into action and successfully carried out with minimal losses. He is the only person other than Daenarys Stormborn to own a dragon egg. (It won't hatch for him.)

This is just pitiful. He's such a better character than he's being shown to be.

Edited by Thanatos

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prtrFn2.jpg

(In the books the only way to kill a mature dragon while flying was a shot through the eye. Nothing else would do enough harm. You could knock them out of the sky via a shot in the wing, but their scales were way too hard for a bolt to pierce it.)

Building on what I posted earlier, the show has been severely damaged by two things: A) Euron's storyline changes amd B) The lack of Aegon Blackfyre. 

Aegon- Young Griff- is possibly the son of Rhaegr Targaryen and Elia Martell. Which would make him Jon's half-brother. The books make it clear something else is going on and he's likely in fact a Blackfyre (bastard Targaryen), but the people believe him to be the son of Rhaegr, which is what gives him power. Plus he's young and charismatic. In the books, Aegon has already raised his banners and has taken Dorne, Stormwind, and the Reach. What this means is that Cersei has a legitimate threat besides Dany, and Dany isn't just going to waltz north and take out the city and Cersei easily, so we don't have to have stupid decisions like the dragon being killed to make Cersei a threat to Dany, because there is a major third player that is missing- to whom, I might add, every indication is that Varys is secretly supporting.

Euron Crows-Eye's story goes beyond even what I posted earlier. He is almost certainly working with the Others or attempting to use them. It is heavily implied that the Three-Eyed Raven tried to make him his apprentice and failed miserably, as Euron still sees visions. He ties up priests of all religions on his ship, the Silence, (so named because he cut out the tongues of everyone under him so they cannot speak as to what they see) and gives them a drink that the Ironborn use to come close to death and thus they see visions. He has a horn from the ruins of Valyria that supposedly can turn dragons to fight for him, he uses blood magic to control the weather and he has an entire suit of armor made out of Valyrian steel.  He is simply a genuine huge threat that doesn't give a fuck about the Game of Thrones, he thinks he is the Drowned God in the flesh, and his goal is to conquer the entire world and turn himself into a god.

I get we had to cut things, but Aegon missing from the show takes out what should be a major third player in the War for the Iron Throne. Euron could possibly be the big baddie in the books, or at least working with the big baddie. In the show he's just a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain.

Also: The Winds of Winter is done according to rumor. Rumor also has it a Dream of Spring is ALSO done, he's simply waiting for the show to finish and giving it time. And GRRM has come out and said the show has entirely diverged from the books.

Edited by Thanatos
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The same dude who knew ahead of time due to a script leak about Rhaegal dying, Missandei being captured and dying, essentially told all the plot points of ep. 4 just posted the leaked ending on reddit.

So don't go on there if you care about that.

 

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If anyone posts spoilers for episodes 5 and 6 before they air, please use spoiler tags kthx.

Thanks for the insight on the novels, Thanatos. Adding a third player to this final season definitely would have helped, I think. Also I don't buy that A Dream of Spring is done, or even close. I get Winds of Winter, but there's no way Martin has written two massive novels in between all the other stuff he's been doing.

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3 hours ago, SteVo said:

If anyone posts spoilers for episodes 5 and 6 before they air, please use spoiler tags kthx.

Thanks for the insight on the novels, Thanatos. Adding a third player to this final season definitely would have helped, I think. Also I don't buy that A Dream of Spring is done, or even close. I get Winds of Winter, but there's no way Martin has written two massive novels in between all the other stuff he's been doing.

Thing is, Winds of Winter has released a lot of chapters online. I could easily buy that it has been done for quite some times, thus freeing him to work on a Dream of Spring the past few years.

Something else I thought of- in the books, it is Aegon who has the Golden Company, including elephants.

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How cool and unique of a character is Varys though?

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2 hours ago, seanbrock said:

How cool and unique of a character is Varys though?

Varys is amazing as a character, but really only in the books. He has no purpose in the show, because his actual master is not in play. In the books, there is a theory that he is also a Blackfyre, because he loses his genitals to a red sorcerer, who, according to him, cast them into a fire from which a voice spoke to him. Now if that was a red priest of Myr- as is heavily implied- they only use royal blood, ala Varys must have it.

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I wouldn't say he doesn't have a purpose in the show. His purpose is to protect the people by manipulating information and manipulating the players in the game. His plans are somewhat fluid because of circumstances have changed things and he's made miscalculations but he's a cog in the wheel. idk, I'm sure he's better in the books. I haven't finished yet but I think he's still pretty awesome in that show. One of the only cool things about the last episode to me was his and Tyrion's scene's. They've had some amazing scenes in this series.

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