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Thanatos

Game of Thrones Final Season **SPOILER WARNING**

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I did enjoy Varys and Tyrion as well. I'm glad that Thrones, in its final hours, is getting back to the political backroom conniving that sort of started everything in the early seasons.

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If Varys is Targaryen why would his loyalties to Dany sway like they have?

I think he's great in the show though. Not as much detail to his character as many others but that doesn't mean he's lesser, IMO. Especially when he's one of few characters that make logical sense. He also says in the last episode that he does what he does "for the realm". he's a man of the people.. This is something that he brings up in the books a lot as well. I think it might just be that truth... Wouldn't be upset if there was more tho, ha.

Edited by DalaiLama4Ever

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I don't know if it matters if Varys is Tararyen or Black fire because like Jon, that's not the life he lived. The cool common link between Varys and Tyrion is that they're two of the most scorned people in Westeros but they still care for people in spite of it. They still fight for the lives and the well being of people but they're not perfect either. They've both done some fucked up shit but at the end of the day their intentions are true. 

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4 hours ago, seanbrock said:

I wouldn't say he doesn't have a purpose in the show. His purpose is to protect the people by manipulating information and manipulating the players in the game. His plans are somewhat fluid because of circumstances have changed things and he's made miscalculations but he's a cog in the wheel. idk, I'm sure he's better in the books. I haven't finished yet but I think he's still pretty awesome in that show. One of the only cool things about the last episode to me was his and Tyrion's scene's. They've had some amazing scenes in this series.

Okay, my bad, I didn't say that correctly.

Varys does not have the same goals at all. He is not some hero protecting the realm, he actively pushed the Mad King to commit unspeakable acts, and then helped to kill Robert because he felt he wasn't a good king, (for his stated reason of "he doesn't want to rule", because the show has made him a hypocrite too). He is actively supporting Aegon Blackfyre/Targaryen in the books while pushing nasty rumors about his enemies. Varys is much more a Littlefinger than he is a less naive Ned Stark, which is basically how he's being portrayed atm.

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4 hours ago, DalaiLama4Ever said:

If Varys is Targaryen why would his loyalties to Dany sway like they have?

I think he's great in the show though. Not as much detail to his character as many others but that doesn't mean he's lesser, IMO. Especially when he's one of few characters that make logical sense. He also says in the last episode that he does what he does "for the realm". he's a man of the people.. This is something that he brings up in the books a lot as well. I think it might just be that truth... Wouldn't be upset if there was more tho, ha.

He would be a Blackfyre, not a Targaryen. And the Blackfyres do not like the Targaryens. If Varys could put a Blackfyre on the throne over Dany, he would do it in a heartbeat. Right before he murders him, he says exactly that to Kevan Lannister (major player who is also not in the show, who took over for Tywin. Cersei is nowhere near as competent in the books as she is in the show). Also he only brings up "for the realm" in the books as a distraction. Varys is not some hero.

Edited by Thanatos

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10 hours ago, Thanatos said:

He would be a Blackfyre, not a Targaryen. And the Blackfyres do not like the Targaryens. If Varys could put a Blackfyre on the throne over Dany, he would do it in a heartbeat. Right before he murders him, he says exactly that to Kevan Lannister (major player who is also not in the show, who took over for Tywin. Cersei is nowhere near as competent in the books as she is in the show). Also he only brings up "for the realm" in the books as a distraction. Varys is not some hero.

Blackfyres descend from a pure Targaryen bloodline considering Daemon founded the house and named his house after the Targaryen sword... they're Targaryens. Blackfyre's are just pissy loser Targaryen's who pretend like they have a claim to the throne and throw tantrums. And Kevan is definitely in the show. Multiple appearances, stands up to Cersei controlling Tommen... Named hand of the King when Cersei is thrown in prison. Different than the books, sure, but to say he isn't there at all? What? lol. 

Let's not forget that what the Blackfyres do best is lose to Targaryens. Thus, if Young Griff / Fake Aegon was a real player or contender or somebody who was gonna be a legit mover in the books, he wouldn't have been left out. Probably because nothing really happens with it. Either he's fake or Blackfyre and is found out and the conspirators are slaughtered. Or he's actually Aegon , is found out and is killed... 

I like show Varys. lol

 

Edited by DalaiLama4Ever

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End game prediction szn. Bronn kills Dany and Drogon with a scorpion bolt.

Jaime kills Cersei to prevent her from torching the city. 

Everyone unites under Jon after Cersei and Dany go crazy trying to murder everyone.

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Aaron Rodgers has a confirmed cameo in the next episode.

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16 hours ago, DalaiLama4Ever said:

Blackfyres descend from a pure Targaryen bloodline considering Daemon founded the house and named his house after the Targaryen sword... they're Targaryens. Blackfyre's are just pissy loser Targaryen's who pretend like they have a claim to the throne and throw tantrums. And Kevan is definitely in the show. Multiple appearances, stands up to Cersei controlling Tommen... Named hand of the King when Cersei is thrown in prison. Different than the books, sure, but to say he isn't there at all? What? lol. 

Let's not forget that what the Blackfyres do best is lose to Targaryens. Thus, if Young Griff / Fake Aegon was a real player or contender or somebody who was gonna be a legit mover in the books, he wouldn't have been left out. Probably because nothing really happens with it. Either he's fake or Blackfyre and is found out and the conspirators are slaughtered. Or he's actually Aegon , is found out and is killed... 

I like show Varys. lol

 

Kevan completely takes over for Tywin and leads the Lannisters up until Varys murders him in his bed. I admit I forgot he was in the show at all, that's how little of an impact he had. 

The Blackfyres do not like the Targaryens, was my point. You were asking why Varys would turn against Dany if he was a Blackfyre, I was providing a reason. Do know, however, that the idea he's a Blackfyre is literally based solely on the fact that a man dressed in red wanted a part of him to use in the flames. It's a flimsy theory, IMO. He is definitely supporting Young Griff over Dany, he says so to Kevan. He may believe he is actually Aegon Targaryen, or he may think he's a Blackfyre. We don't know at this point.

You are somehow still under this impression that the books are not going to seriously diverge from the series, despite GRRM saying exactly that. Young Griff is absolutely a major player. While I doubt he actually wins the game, he changes the entire landscape we have right now.

I don't necessarily dislike show Varys, he's simply not the same character.

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End game prediction szn. Bronn kills Dany and Drogon with a scorpion bolt.

Jaime kills Cersei to prevent her from torching the city. 

Everyone unites under Jon after Cersei and Dany go crazy trying to murder everyone.

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That last episode was mostly terrible. All logic and reason out of the door, how far are they going to stretch things? 

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8 minutes ago, BJORN said:

That last episode was mostly terrible. All logic and reason out of the door, how far are they going to stretch things? 

Considering the dragons, giants, zombies, and use of magic (among other things)— i’d say they’re gonna stretch logic and reason to a fair degree. 

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10 minutes ago, DalaiLama4Ever said:

Considering the dragons, giants, zombies, and use of magic (among other things)— i’d say they’re gonna stretch logic and reason to a fair degree. 

Are you on HBO's payroll? If no you should be lol.

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4 minutes ago, DalaiLama4Ever said:

Considering the dragons, giants, zombies, and use of magic (among other things)— i’d say they’re gonna stretch logic and reason to a fair degree. 

Such a pet peeve of mine, it still needs to make sense in the respective world. 

iTs fAnTASy isn't an excuse for bad writing, this is HBO not SCI-Fi. 

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45 minutes ago, BJORN said:

Such a pet peeve of mine, it still needs to make sense in the respective world. 

iTs fAnTASy isn't an excuse for bad writing, this is HBO not SCI-Fi. 

What doesn’t make sense in the world? Give examples. You made a general statement. Lol 

Edit:

Just leaving something at “ this doesn’t make sense “ is a cop out.

iT dOeSn’T mAkE sEnSe BuT i CaN’t SaY wHy 

Edit2:

Also I think it’s important to note if you’re talking strictly the show or if you’re drawing inconsistencies and illogical actions / scenarios by drawing comparisons to the books. Because as it sits, the books and show are two totally different things at this point. 

Edited by DalaiLama4Ever

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2 hours ago, seanbrock said:

Are you on HBO's payroll? If no you should be lol.

Is this hiring effective immediately? I accept. Lol 

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On 5/10/2019 at 10:23 AM, DalaiLama4Ever said:

What doesn’t make sense in the world? Give examples. You made a general statement. Lol 

Edit:

Just leaving something at “ this doesn’t make sense “ is a cop out.

iT dOeSn’T mAkE sEnSe BuT i CaN’t SaY wHy 

Edit2:

Also I think it’s important to note if you’re talking strictly the show or if you’re drawing inconsistencies and illogical actions / scenarios by drawing comparisons to the books. Because as it sits, the books and show are two totally different things at this point. 

Pure-show viewpoint.

Spoilers:

 

Unrealistic:

"Dany just kind of forgot about Euron's fleet" -Show writers (weird seeing how the fleet was brought up in the episode prior to this happening, oh and Euron had already ambushed Dany's army before)

Dany not having vision on a clear day of a large fleet ambushing them. No scouts sent. No word from Varys' spies from King's Landing that the fleet is heading out towards Dragon Stone. 

Going 3/3 (on a ship in the ocean) on a fast, moving air target from distance with a scorpion. Then missing EVERY shot as Dany flies in a straight line at them. Also, Dany chooses to fly straight at the scorpions, instead of over to flank the fleet.

You know what would have made more sense? They spot the fleet and Dany blindly attacks the fleet not knowing they had counter scoprions and them catching Rhaegal who would have been unsuspecting, flying at them, and less agile at this point to dodge things. That was my immediate reaction and I am not a paid writer. 

Off-screen, Euron captures Missandei , who left in a skiff, but doesn't capture or clean up the survivors swimming to the shoreline?

The last scene was really bad too. Why would Dany show up so exposed, given the scorpions proven effectiveness? Why wouldn't Cersei pull the trigger right then and there? Nor does she kill Tyrion, a sitting duck who she wants dead. 

----

Sansa doesn't trust Dany even after she risked her entire life and army to protect Winterfell?

Dany is jealous that the North, Jon's own people and friends, love Jon more than her at the party?  

Both Dany and JON choosing to ignore what is best for their people and immediately move out towards King's Landing? I get they are pushing a plot-line of Dany being power-hungry and mad-queenish but don't forget where Dany came from and how she built her base in the first place. But even then, it serves her objective more to use her alliances (North, Gendry, New prince of Dorn, Yara, reinforcements from Daario) to gather a larger army, let her current army, including Rhaegal, recuperate, and then make your move.   

Also, why is Bran useless? His one big scene was CUT off-screen :yao:

Minor complaint: Jon's reason for letting Ghost leave = good. Not much of a goodbye, though.

---

All of this after Arya, who's entire plot line had nothing to do with the white walkers, kills the NK, while the 10 Lts do FUCK ALL, all episode. After all of the seasons of building this up? Just for a surprise? Oh and don't worry guys, the armies which were shown completely overrun and decimated last epsiode are all still somehow at half strength, how convenient? 

It's sad because the reasoning behind a lot of this is not necessarily bad, it is just the pacing and how things are conveniently being done that is killing the show for me. 

All of this leads to my question of: why is everything rushed and condensed into 6 episodes if they are going to pull all of this crap to conveniently speed things up? It would be a shame if we had...you know, more episodes to watch! Nobody would want that. 

 

 

 

Edited by BJORN
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I think a lot of Danys poor decisions are explained by her really fucked up mindset. She’s taking L’s left and right. She isn’t thinking clearly. She’s thinking about Jon and how much people love him... maybe the show didn’t go far enough to show how kind of lost she is or how much conflict she is battling, but it’s there. To think that with all that she would approach with a perfect plan or even with a well thought out plan is asking too much imo. That’s for people who want things to happen the right way... if it worked out for her , people would be talking about plot armor letting her so easily reach the shores of King’s Landing with Euron just sitting there waiting. 

Also, correct me if I’m wrong because I’d have to go back and watch the war map discussion scene but was the plan to engage right away? I thought she was taking the sea and waiting for Jon and the Northman to come by land. Not only that but was something said to alert them as to the fact that Cersei / Euron would be attack on sight ? Very rarely in this show have we seen ambush style attacks like this . You have two sides, they spend and episode staring each other down then clash.

I think it was part of the plan to take Dany off guard. Which makes sense from Cersei’s point of view completely . They just fought the dead, maybe they aren’t at 100%... attack them while they are weakest and not full strength. And that was the right thing to do from Cersei’s perspective. And she was right. The army isn’t at 100%, being divided at all... Dany isn’t in it 100% mentally. And Dany is outmanned and outmatched from a technology / weapons perspective. 

We didn’t really see that much of the battle or Dany attempting to take the ships out. She she’s Rhaegal get struck and go down (which further fucks her mentality up btw) . Not to mention the distance was INSANE on those things. Was Dany, from Drogon back, supposed to use her Superman sight thousands of feet at least and immediately recognize that these ballista skorpion things can’t aim straight up ? THAT is illogical and unrealistic. What’s more realistic is that the mind fucked dragon rider flies at the threat , realizes what’s going on, the dangers, the strengths and weaknesses etc and then adapts. Which is exactly what they teased for next episode as we see Euron look straight up into the sky as Drogon cries out. 

The scout thing would’ve been made sense but assume a scout ship was sent. Euron probably destroyed it so Dany still has little to no information other than the enemy is there and is going to fire. She goes in but prepared for battle this time.... explain to me how that would’ve changed much ? I think Danys fleet still gets fucked up. Maybe they take down a few of Eurons ships but nothing worth talking about. I think Rhaegal still dies. Not much has changed... the only way the scout really makes a difference is if Dany would’ve decided to run away preemptively, which seems too unrealistic for the character anyway. 

I’ll write the rest later, my breaks over. Back to work *tear*

------------------

I am not sure if the question marks are statements that you found unrealistic, but those things all make sense to me. 

Yes, Dany helped the North fight the undead. That doesn't mean Sansa should automatically trust anything does. Sansa trusted her for the battle in front of her, she offered Dany and her army shelter, food, etc etc. But when it comes to Dany as a queen... Sansa questions her motives, as she should. Those two very different things (Dany as an ally fighting the dead VS Dany as her Queen) don't need to go hand in hand. There doesn't need to be ALL trust or NO trust. Human emotion and relationships are complex and not as black and white as you may want them to be. This is logical and realistic for Sansa completely. She even explains part of that to Dany in a scene in the show... The North will not bend the knee, they've been fucked too many times. It also makes sense considering her mentor is Littlefinger.

" Fight every battle, everywhere, always, in your mind. Everyone is your enemy.. Everyone is your friend... Every possible series of events is happening all at once.  Live that way and nothing will surprise you. Everything that happens will be something you've seen before. "

Sansa has been molded over years to be this extremely calculating individual, to play different roles... To do what is necessary to survive. If she doesn't "trust" Dany to fight with them they are all dead.... 

Is what Dany is exhibiting actually jealousy? Maybe in a way, but I don't think that's the root. She knows Jon's heritage. She knows Jon is the rightful heir to the throne. So when she sees how well liked Jon is liked by people... she begins to question everything. Jon is liked, respected... LOVED by the people "under" him. Would it be the same for her? She's afraid not... She even explains this to Jon when she tells him he can't reveal his parents. This isn't jealousy... It's fear, in my opinion. And let's not forget that there wasn't just Northmen at that celebration. 

I disagree that they are ignoring their people. I feel like that is just wrong. They are rushing, they are pushing. But that's explained in the show. Dany believes Cersei will get stronger over time. And the rest you explain yourself... They want us to see Dany at conflict with herself. Will she succumb to the targaryen madness or not? It's inner conflict and turmoil that is very real for her and makes sense considering her family. Plus, if she is worried about Jon's secret getting out or that information spreading or the people demanding him to take the throne... It makes sense that she would want to take it from Cersei as soon as possible and establish control before dealing with Jon. I don't get why this is illogical at all. You can refer to what I said to Sean about Jon.

What should Bran be doing that he isn't? He's a living Encyclopedia.. no emotion. It was his idea to use himself as bait. his knowledge of the NK that allowed the NK to be defeated. I don't get what else he should be doing in the context of the show. Feel free to expand on that.

Your minor complaint is actually the strongest piece of unrealistic writing I think you have as support. Under no circumstance can I see Jon leaving ghost liek that. Doesn't make sense. 

------------

I already explained why we don't have more episodes. I will keep it short. I don't think Benioff and Weiss came into this thing wanting to rewrite Thrones. They read it , loved it, and wanted to put it on screen. They've long left the supple teet of Martin's highly detailed story. Plus, if you have been so put off by the show and the way Dave and DB have written this stuff.. I can't imagine you enjoying them expanding the series and writing even MORE. lol. Filling in all these detail gaps that they never got from Martin, etc. 

You are right though, they could've done that. HBO was fine with it. It was those two who said no.. it ends here. And I think a lot of that is because they didn't come into this wanting to create their own Thrones material. I am going to guess they really believed Martin would have been further in by the time these latter seasons came around. It didn't happen that way.
 

Edited by DalaiLama4Ever
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They just do things off-screen is the problem. The reason why the Scorpions can shoot further is because Qyburn gave them upgrades. Yet there is no mention of this in the show, just the directors telling us off-screen that this is the case.

Dany believing Cersei will get stronger over time makes literally zero sense and the fact that no one has told her this is just stupid. They're rushing the conclusion to end it quickly, but cmon man. No one points out she has a merc company? That she has to pay? The longer they wait the WEAKER she becomes.

Edited by Thanatos
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F4E, a fire breathing dragon is a nightmare match-up for a fleet of ships. If Dany is battle ready, that fire can immediately immobilize Euron's ships. That alone could have made a difference. I agree (and never disputed) it makes sense for Euron to confront Dany's fleet. It just happened in an incredibly unrealistic manner.

I think my scenario is flatout better. Rhaegal gets caught approaching a spotted fleet and Dany flees after realizing they have scorpions....more realistic and same outcome. Nope, lets throw all logic out the door for a cheap surprise.

The war board scene, I think, included both Sansa suggesting to let the armies recuperate and someone mentioned Euron's fleet is dominating the waters. So Dany makes the worst decision to immediately move on King's Landing and she still manages to get blindsided by Euron (again)... its just stretching it in my opinion.

I just think the Sansa stuff is a little contrived given what I said. They fought side by side, why wouldn't the North back Dany after that? Especially with Jon's blessing and full backing as well as a shared common objective. Though now, it makes a little more sense for there to be conflict after Dany's dumb ass decisions after the war board scene and the revelation of Jon's heritage. So we will see how it plays out. 

Well, Bran could be doing a lot with what he has. Like spying on Cersei? It is for the greater good. And him revealing to Sansa and Arya, Jon's heritage is a fairly major moment to just be cut away from. 

Just because I am criticizing an episode doesn't mean I hate the show. You are criticizing me for the show not going how I want it to. True. But what is also true is that the writers are doing nonsensical things to push things that they want. In my opinion...it is poor writing. 

2 hours ago, Thanatos said:

They just do things off-screen is the problem. The reason why the Scorpions can shoot further is because Qyburn gave them upgrades. Yet there is no mention of this in the show, just the directors telling us off-screen that this is the case.

Dany believing Cersei will get stronger over time makes literally zero sense and the fact that no one has told her this is just stupid. They're rushing the conclusion to end it quickly, but cmon man. No one points out she has a merc company? That she has to pay? The longer they wait the WEAKER she becomes.

Keep in mind, that despite 'improvements,' it is a ballista on a ship, shooting at a moving dragon from distance. It's not happening, the way it happened.

Edited by BJORN
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Agreed, its still entirely unrealistic that it can hit a moving target with that precision. I was more pointing out the "off-screen" things.

I do, however, feel that people who argue Bran should be doing something have missed something rather large. Bran is not Bran Stark any more. He is the Three-Eyed Raven. And the Three-Eyed Raven's job is to keep the Others from destroying humanity. Mission accomplished. He does not care who wins the Iron Throne at all, because his job is simply to safeguard humanity.

Again though, this is not really spelled out in the show.

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45 minutes ago, BJORN said:

F4E, a fire breathing dragon is a nightmare match-up for a fleet of ships. If Dany is battle ready, that fire can immediately immobilize Euron's ships. That alone could have made a difference. I agree (and never disputed) it makes sense for Euron to confront Dany's fleet. It just happened in an incredibly unrealistic manner.

I think my scenario is flatout better. Rhaegal gets caught approaching a spotted fleet and Dany flees after realizing they have scorpions....more realistic and same outcome. Nope, lets throw all logic out the door for a cheap surprise.

The war board scene, I think, included both Sansa suggesting to let the armies recuperate and someone mentioned Euron's fleet is dominating the waters. So Dany makes the worst decision to immediately move on King's Landing and she still manages to get blindsided by Euron (again)... its just stretching it in my opinion.

I just think the Sansa stuff is a little contrived given what I said. They fought side by side, why wouldn't the North back Dany after that? Especially with Jon's blessing and full backing as well as a shared common objective. Though now, it makes a little more sense for there to be conflict after Dany's dumb ass decisions after the war board scene and the revelation of Jon's heritage. So we will see how it plays out. 

Well, Bran could be doing a lot with what he has. Like spying on Cersei? It is for the greater good. And him revealing to Sansa and Arya, Jon's heritage is a fairly major moment to just be cut away from. 

Just because I am criticizing an episode doesn't mean I hate the show. You are criticizing me for the show not going how I want it to. True. But what is also true is that the writers are doing nonsensical things to push things that they want. In my opinion...it is poor writing. 

Keep in mind, that despite 'improvements,' it is a ballista on a ship, shooting at a moving dragon from distance. It's not happening, the way it happened.

You think a dragon riding Targaryen fleeing is more logical and in-character? Ehhhhh. Disagree, strongly. Especially one showing at least symptoms of the family madness. Your scenario might be "better".  But better doesn't necessarily mean more realistic / logical to the characters and world -- which is the discussion.

Sansa's arc and development just makes too much sense for her to do or think anything differently. Obviously will be more detail in the books... but as far as the show goes, I think they've done justice  to her more than most of the characters. And I think you're under valuing a lot of plot points in the story to think that the North would all of a sudden bend the knee to an outsider. Lyanna Mormont gave Sansa hell when she was trying to rally support to take back the North... Yet those same people who question even there own are supposed to accept someone they don't know because of one battle that even she had her own motives for? It's definitely a good start... But for an entire character trait of northerners that has been displayed for 10 years to be wiped away by one battle doesn't make logical sense within the world. Trust and respect is earned in the North. Dany comes in there demanding respect from Sansa... that ain't how it works. lol

I could be wrong, but I don't think that's really the purpose of greenseers. To spy on people... lol. Bran lacks emotion. Other than to stop / avoid the long night... I don't think he really takes sides. Influencing the future seems out of character. I could be wrong, and the episode may start with him spying on Cersei, ha. I just... don't see that. Again, would just seem really bizarre and out of character as they've built him up to now.

For someone who is saying that the show has become so unrealistic and illogical, you sure want to cut down a lot of those pillars of the show which would make it less realistic and logical. lol. It just seems like you say the show doesn't make sense, but in reality it's just you personally not liking how things go down.

And that's totally cool. I'm not gonna sit her telling you that you should want the show to play out like it has. If you don't like certain things, you don't like em... that's fine. Ha.Don't get me wrong. Some of the scenarios you typed out would be cool to see. With that said, just because you lay out cooler or better scenarios doesn't mean what we got isn't realistic. And that's all I am arguing... the trueness to the characters, plots, stories.. the "realism" that you brought up originally. 

I appreciate the discussion though, for sure. *cheers* Let's hope for a good one tomorrow.
 

Edited by DalaiLama4Ever

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Dany flew away in the very same scene in the show, dude. 

I don't know, the Battle of Winterfell is a pretty significant battle to just be played down and labeled as one battle. And that's typically how you earn trust and respect in the North anyways but w/e.

I downplayed one detail on Bran (I said it would be for the greater good) and everything I say is tearing at the fabric of the show.... OK 

Edited by BJORN

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After she lost, not before. Lol.  Big difference between getting your ass kicked and retreating and just fleeing without trying. It’s not a very Targaryen thing to do. Dany loses Rhaegal... her first thought isn’t “ this is dangerous I need to get away “. ... it’s an overflow of emotion. Rage, anger, grief... ready for revenge, impulsive. That’s just the character. 

We can armchair QB it and be like, “ wow, that’s dumb!” . Tactically, etc ... ya, dumb. especially with hindsight seeing her get crushed. But it’s still right for the character. It’s what she would do, realistically. It makes sense even when it doesn’t make sense — if that makes sense. KAPPA 

Nah you’re downplaying a lot... 

character traits of Targaryens, character traits of people of the North, Sansa’s Development and Littlefingers influence, Bran and his purpose, Dany’s mental state, Cersei’s motivations, etc etc etc. 

Your initial complaint was the show isn’t realistic... but what you WANT largely (not all) is more unrealistic in this world and for our characters than what has been written. 

And again... you’re not wrong for wanting something else. But that’s not because all of these things you described are unrealistic, it’s because you just want something else. 

Edited by DalaiLama4Ever
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F4E, she flew away before her fleet got wrecked. Hence why the scorpions turned on her fleet afterwards. Am I wrong? 

Where have I downplayed Cersei? Not going in circles over the North and such. I don't think I have downplayed them at all. Sansa, probably.

Last question I will pose to you, what is Bran's purpose now? What does he do now? The greater threat is gone. Why wouldn't he try to intervene to prevent Innocents from dying if Cersei is aiming to use them as meat shields? Or is he just going to be a sitting encyclopedia? Lol

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