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Thanatos

Game of Thrones Final Season **SPOILER WARNING**

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Aaron Rodgers agrees with me.

The Packers' signal-caller didn't hesitate to join the fray when asked if he liked the ending.

"No," Rodgers said emphatically. "I love the show and it was a great 10 years, but no. I mean, you come down to the end and Tyrion says the person with the best story is Bran, who by the way three episodes ago said he wasn't Bran Stark anymore?

"Jon had a better story. Dany had a better story. Arya had a better story. Sansa had a better story. Tyrion had a better story. Varys had a better story. Bronn, a lot better story. Jamie a better story. Cersei, probably a better story. Gendry Baratheon, better story."

Rodgers then provided a take on who should've claimed the Iron Throne, which was established as the ultimate prize throughout the eight seasons of the TV show and novels.

"I think Dany should've been on the throne," Rodger said of actress Emilia Clarke's portrayal of Daenerys Targaryen, who was a main character throughout the series before being killed off in the final episode.

Rodgers' view on the Mother of Dragons was quickly followed by how he viewed the show's eventual surprising ruler in Bran.

"Here's the thing, though, here's my last theory," Rodgers said. "If Bran, the three-eyed raven who's all about the health of the realm, let's think about what he did.

"Basically wanted the throne the whole time because he's the one that told the Starks knowing that Sansa would tell Tyrion, knowing that Tyrion would talk to Varys, knowing they'd scheme for Dany's death, knowing that would piss her off, which led her to be the Mad Queen. So, he the entire time had to set this whole thing up? And at the end, he goes, 'I don't want to be king, but why did I travel all this way to be here?' No."

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Yeah, I mean I get both. My gut tells me it doesn't make a ton of sense for the Three Eyed Raven to become the king... At the same time though, Tyrion is right. I think he will be a good king. Also, it makes sense considering Varys telling Tyrion that the best king would be someone who doesn't want it... We were all thinking about Jon, but the same applied to Bran. I thin this is Martin's ending, though. Big difference is that Bran is way more impactful in the books, so we will get even MORE on him and this rise to protector of the realm. And that's saying something considering we will get more on all of these stories -- I just think Bran alone will require beyond that. He's always had a ton of POV chapters before anyway. 

EDIT: I watched his interview at his locker talkign about that, he was very impassioned. lol. I don't think Dany should've sat on the throne though long term. Considering her descent to madness and all of her visions coming true -- it just wasn't meant to happen. I understand why people would want her to be on the throne though. But yeah, I think the rest just details what you said and what us other non-ragers (Kappa) like Stevo and I have been saying for like 8 pages of this thread. The detail and condensed nature of the main plot just doesn't take you to a place where you want Bran on the throne or to even really understand it that well. It was just kind of outta nowhere.

Edited by DalaiLama4Ever
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Basically D&D were given the answers out of the textbook, but when asked to show their work we got.... uh.... this.

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41 minutes ago, DalaiLama4Ever said:

Yeah, I mean I get both. My gut tells me it doesn't make a ton of sense for the Three Eyed Raven to become the king... At the same time though, Tyrion is right. I think he will be a good king. Also, it makes sense considering Varys telling Tyrion that the best king would be someone who doesn't want it... We were all thinking about Jon, but the same applied to Bran. I thin this is Martin's ending, though. Big difference is that Bran is way more impactful in the books, so we will get even MORE on him and this rise to protector of the realm. And that's saying something considering we will get more on all of these stories -- I just think Bran alone will require beyond that. He's always had a ton of POV chapters before anyway. 

EDIT: I watched his interview at his locker talkign about that, he was very impassioned. lol. I don't think Dany should've sat on the throne though long term. Considering her descent to madness and all of her visions coming true -- it just wasn't meant to happen. I understand why people would want her to be on the throne though. But yeah, I think the rest just details what you said and what us other non-ragers (Kappa) like Stevo and I have been saying for like 8 pages of this thread. The detail and condensed nature of the main plot just doesn't take you to a place where you want Bran on the throne or to even really understand it that well. It was just kind of outta nowhere.

Idk. I could see him being a good king. I could also see him going full on Minority Report here, (going out and arresting people for crimes before they are committed). We almost have this contrast being "love being the death of duty" and now we have Bran, who has zero emotions at all and is simply cold hard reason and logic. You need both to be a good ruler, IMO. Sheer reason doesn't give you enough empathy dealing with people. 

Bran being the king is one of the fan theories, and Martin said someone had guessed it. There's a lot of parallels with Bran the blessed or Bran the Fisher King in british folklore. Just like you said, it came 100% out of nowhere in the tv series.

There are two problems with Varys telling Tyrion the best king would be someone who doesn't want it. The first is- he says this is exactly Robert's problem. He doesn't want to be king, so he is a terrible one, so he's done a complete 180 with no reasoning. The second problem has to do with Rodger's last point I quoted.

His last point is absolutely valid, I've seen it brought up a bit. But if Bran does in fact see everything he wants to, and his comment to Tyrion implies he came to KL because he knew what was going to happen, doesn't he share the blame for orchestrating the whole mess that sent Dany into murder-rage mode in the first place? And thus, he does in fact want the throne, since he orchestrated events to that endpoint?

A lot of my issue with it is just its way too condensed. Someone said in here they didn't have enough material for more episodes. That's bullshit times 1000. They absolutely had more material they could use, D&D wanted Star Wars instead. I mean just stuff like no one, not even the Stark sisters, bring up the fact that Jon is in fact Aegon Targaryen? What was the whole point of him being a Targaryen in the first place? Why was Jon even brought back to life? And since when has killing a king somehow disqualified you from becoming king? Jon is the heir to the throne. Or Gendry. Tyrion making one speech somehow convinces them all to give up the entire system? It's just all insanely rushed and it comes off horribly. 

Still had fun, its still a great show, the first six seasons are the best six years of any show I've ever seen. 7 is good, and 8 is extremely meh with an awful ending. Endings need to at least be satisfactory. That one was very much... not.

Edited by Thanatos
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7 hours ago, DalaiLama4Ever said:

Yeah, I mean I get both. My gut tells me it doesn't make a ton of sense for the Three Eyed Raven to become the king... At the same time though, Tyrion is right. I think he will be a good king. Also, it makes sense considering Varys telling Tyrion that the best king would be someone who doesn't want it... We were all thinking about Jon, but the same applied to Bran. I thin this is Martin's ending, though. Big difference is that Bran is way more impactful in the books, so we will get even MORE on him and this rise to protector of the realm. And that's saying something considering we will get more on all of these stories -- I just think Bran alone will require beyond that. He's always had a ton of POV chapters before anyway. 

EDIT: I watched his interview at his locker talkign about that, he was very impassioned. lol. I don't think Dany should've sat on the throne though long term. Considering her descent to madness and all of her visions coming true -- it just wasn't meant to happen. I understand why people would want her to be on the throne though. But yeah, I think the rest just details what you said and what us other non-ragers (Kappa) like Stevo and I have been saying for like 8 pages of this thread. The detail and condensed nature of the main plot just doesn't take you to a place where you want Bran on the throne or to even really understand it that well. It was just kind of outta nowhere.

So all it takes is for Aaron Rodgers to come out and say something and the lemmings fall in line. Ha how's it feel to be one part of the herd, Issac Newton?

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7 hours ago, Thanatos said:

Idk. I could see him being a good king. I could also see him going full on Minority Report here, (going out and arresting people for crimes before they are committed). We almost have this contrast being "love being the death of duty" and now we have Bran, who has zero emotions at all and is simply cold hard reason and logic. You need both to be a good ruler, IMO. Sheer reason doesn't give you enough empathy dealing with people. 

Bran being the king is one of the fan theories, and Martin said someone had guessed it. There's a lot of parallels with Bran the blessed or Bran the Fisher King in british folklore. Just like you said, it came 100% out of nowhere in the tv series.

There are two problems with Varys telling Tyrion the best king would be someone who doesn't want it. The first is- he says this is exactly Robert's problem. He doesn't want to be king, so he is a terrible one, so he's done a complete 180 with no reasoning. The second problem has to do with Rodger's last point I quoted.

His last point is absolutely valid, I've seen it brought up a bit. But if Bran does in fact see everything he wants to, and his comment to Tyrion implies he came to KL because he knew what was going to happen, doesn't he share the blame for orchestrating the whole mess that sent Dany into murder-rage mode in the first place? And thus, he does in fact want the throne, since he orchestrated events to that endpoint?

A lot of my issue with it is just its way too condensed. Someone said in here they didn't have enough material for more episodes. That's bullshit times 1000. They absolutely had more material they could use, D&D wanted Star Wars instead. I mean just stuff like no one, not even the Stark sisters, bring up the fact that Jon is in fact Aegon Targaryen? What was the whole point of him being a Targaryen in the first place? Why was Jon even brought back to life? And since when has killing a king somehow disqualified you from becoming king? Jon is the heir to the throne. Or Gendry. Tyrion making one speech somehow convinces them all to give up the entire system? It's just all insanely rushed and it comes off horribly. 

Still had fun, its still a great show, the first six seasons are the best six years of any show I've ever seen. 7 is good, and 8 is extremely meh with an awful ending. Endings need to at least be satisfactory. That one was very much... not.

Yeah, his biggest weaknesses will also be his biggest strengths. For example, I could totally see him going full MR like you mention. But he can also see into the future, so I hope he does that and realize what route that leads down which then in turn lets him find a quasi-balance. I also think he surrounded himself with good people / advisers. He's really set up for success. And idk when, why, or how... Maybe just because he's gotten more experience as the Raven, but it seems like he's gained a little of that humanity back already. He was cracking jokes at the end there. It was kinda weird, actually... lol. 

Ya, he does have to take responsibility for the series of events that led to all this happening. I don't know for sure... but I'd like to think that it wasn't motivated by his yearning or a desire to be King though. Think back to when Jon revealed his heritage (or allowed Bran to, lol). He at that point knew how things would end, in my mind, but he did seemingly give Jon the choice to reveal it or not. If he chooses not to, does Bran influence events to ensure the same ending happens?  I mean, I don't know... I'd like to think not. Catch-22 of that though, he probably gives Jon that 'choice' knowing what he will do. Just the paradox of having characters that are full blown time wizards, though. lol. 

And, again just speculation but perhaps Bran was being honest about not wanting the throne. But at some point he sees the future(s) and realizes he actually is the best option. The council didn't exactly have a ton of options to put forth. Jon probably wasn't an option due to uhh... regicide rofl. Not to mention he didn't want it. Edmure uh... LOL. Yes, they could've pulled a name out of the hate or ceremoniously given it to some other of our main characters but... I don't think that would have worked well either.

Also, worst writing of the entire series.... Sam pulling out the actual Song of Ice & Fire and going full Tolkien. That was the dumbest shit ever.

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It also needs to be said (Than alluded to this, for the record) that part of the reason seasons 7 and 8 are disappointing is because of the insanely high standard we were held to. For six seasons, Thrones was the best show on TV, and as good as any TV drama has ever been, in my opinion. It's ridiculously difficult to keep that up for six seasons, let alone eight.

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On 5/19/2019 at 10:34 PM, DalaiLama4Ever said:

Damn near perfection. Amazing. Brilliant. Job well done.

:yao: after reading the reactions of others, you sure did switch up.

 

On 5/20/2019 at 3:18 PM, DalaiLama4Ever said:

Sean: 2 + 2 = 7

Me: Actually, the answer is 4

Sean: Woah man, just because you think 2 + 2 equals 4 doesn’t mean I’m wrong.

Me: Ya, actually it does 

:yao: how could I...or anyone really, measure up to your superior intelligence :yao: :yao:

Edited by seanbrock

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@Thanatosi actually do think that the show established dragons as smart. Not as well as the books but Tyrion had the quote about some Maesters saying dragons were thought to be smarter than people. I think the scene where Tyrion talks to Viscerion and Rhaegal when he unchains them. Turned out Tyrion isn't a secret Targaryen and Dany wasn't even there for that meeting. It was Tyrion and the Dragons. They didn't do a great job of it but I do think there is some show precedent for Dragons being intelligent.

Edited by seanbrock

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2 hours ago, seanbrock said:

:yao: after reading the reactions of others, you sure did switch up.

 

:yao: how could I...or anyone really, measure up to your superior intelligence :yao: :yao:

Not really. I loved the finale. The endings to all the characters... didn’t have a problem with them at all. 

I understand the frustration with Bran. Doesn’t mean I hate it or don’t like it. 

The thing I hated most was a 60 second throwaway scene lol. 

Plus it’s really easy to agree with people when they are saying what I’ve been saying since very early in the season. Lol. 

You’re gonna bitch at me either way. I could argue and pick fights and you’ll make fun of me for defending the show. I can agree with people and you still moan about like a bitch in heat. 

GTFO lol. 

 

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Alright bro lol I got too much love for you to hold onto some bullshit about a TV show. Overall you're still my boy so let's leave it at that and have more civil discussions. 

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On 5/22/2019 at 10:37 AM, SteVo said:

It also needs to be said (Than alluded to this, for the record) that part of the reason seasons 7 and 8 are disappointing is because of the insanely high standard we were held to. For six seasons, Thrones was the best show on TV, and as good as any TV drama has ever been, in my opinion. It's ridiculously difficult to keep that up for six seasons, let alone eight.

There was an interesting analysis done that compared the final seasons of shows with the rest of their seasons.

Only one TV season *ever* that has lasted 3+ seasons has had a larger discrepancy between its final season and the average of the rest than Game of Thrones- House of Cards, which has a darn good reason for its last season being dogshit since they had to fire the main actor due to sexual assault allegations.

Game of Thrones was a great show, I don't like this excuse that it failed because its expectations were so high. I don't think that's it at all. That would explain a slight drop, nothing like this freefall.

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28 minutes ago, Thanatos said:

There was an interesting analysis done that compared the final seasons of shows with the rest of their seasons.

Only one TV season *ever* that has lasted 3+ seasons has had a larger discrepancy between its final season and the average of the rest than Game of Thrones- House of Cards, which has a darn good reason for its last season being dogshit since they had to fire the main actor due to sexual assault allegations.

Game of Thrones was a great show, I don't like this excuse that it failed because its expectations were so high. I don't think that's it at all. That would explain a slight drop, nothing like this freefall.

What sucks so bad about it to me is that the production, the direction, the acting....all phenomenal throughout the entire season including this season. Like A+++ material. It was only the writing the fell off a cliff. The rest of the season was just was breathtaking as what we've become accustomed to if not more so in some aspects.

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They filmed a slightly different version of events it seems like. One in which Jorah survives the battle of Winterfell... he's hailed as a hero by his people, the Northmen, which acts as a further catalyst for Dany descending to madness. After Dany destroys King's Landing, thinking among other things, that Jorah is unloyal... he is extremely unsettled by her big speech talking about unbridled and never-ending war. He doesn't want her dead, but he too goes to Jon telling him that Dany has to be stopped. Everything else is pretty much the same until Jorah is also forced to take the black with Jon at the end of the show and rides with him beyond the wall.

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Honestly if Jon sided with Sansa in the war room it would have made his AND Sansa's character stronger. It would have made the tension between Dany and Jon more real and it would make it seem a lot more believable that she would think everyone was against her. Especially when she starts to notice Tyrion and Varys straying

I also would have had Euron sneak into Dragon Stone and some how kill Rhaegal and escape and torch her ships or something in a more guerilla strategy rather than make the scorpion look unstoppable only to have it become irrelevant the very next episode.

I would have also had her capture Jaime not for leaving Winterfell but for killing her father. Now that the war is over he faces his crime. Tyrion lets him go.

That whole turn was just too abrupt. 

All that could have been done in the same time frame with the same plot outcomes.

Edited by seanbrock

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There's a battle tactics channel I watch on youtube that normally does historic battles, but actually talked about how Euron could believably have killed Rhaegal for one episode, it was pretty okay as an idea.

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We've been powering through and are down to 3 episodes left. I totally called Arya killing the king. That shit was dope as hell. She's been my favorite character for a while and I was all-in on the rollercoaster of, "FUCK YES, ARYAAAA--WAIT, NOOOOO--OH HOLY SHIT GET FUUUUUCKED"

 

Some parts of these big battles have required a lot of suspension of disbelief, but I keep chalking it up to The Lord of the Light and enjoying it for what it is. I'm both excited and saddened to be so close to the end. Gonna have to read the fuckin' books finally.

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Poor Zack is about to be so disappointed.

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9 hours ago, SteVo said:

Poor Zack is about to be so disappointed.

I kinda hope he likes it. I think he might have a shot at thinking its okay because he just bumrushed through the whole thing.

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On 5/16/2019 at 9:37 AM, Barracuda said:

Did people not want to see the Hound and Mountain fight? Isn’t that what we wanted since like season 1? 

Did people really want a fantasy ending where Jon and Dany get married have kids and live happily ever after? 

Did people really expect Jamie to either kill  Cersei or just forget that she and their child are about to certainly be killed?

I don’t understand these people. The show has to end, or else is lives to be The Walking Dead which has been unwatchable now for many years.

I think you, JD, and I are the few in complete agreement.

On 5/17/2019 at 5:53 AM, DalaiLama4Ever said:

I don’t know if it’s the majority. Maybe like half. Overreaction was in the cards for those peeps though. Outrage culture is strong. Very much alive and well. 

Shows brought us on a beautiful journey. No reason to go in full out rage mode, for me. Such a waste of energy. But I do still enjoy seeing what you guys have complaints about and talking about it. I will never think Jaime was meant to be a good character from Day 1 like all of you. Just can’t get there, but that’s nature of debate I suppose. Ha 

I'm right with you, man. It wasn't a perfect show, but it was a pretty fucking satisfying ride.

On 5/17/2019 at 12:34 PM, Thanatos said:

Sure, sure, all of those valid complaints are just "outrage culture." Sean's right, you really should be the PR guy for HBO. Just looking at polls taken about the season in general- which again, normally are 8+, if not 8.5+, people have this one at a 5.5. Every single place I have seen that grades TV series has this one sitting a good 20-30% behind the others. Feel free to correct me here. But I think its most certainly a majority of people that fall into either A) This season is not as good as the previous ones or B) this season is just shit.

IMDB for example. Every single episode from season 1 to season 7. The lowest rated episode was an 8.1- season 5 episode 6. With this sole exception, every other episode is 8.5+. There are multiple 9.9s- Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards, the Winds of Winter- Season 6 ends on two straight 9.9s.

Season 8? The highest rated is episode 2- 8.4. This is the only episode of season 8 that is ahead of any other GoT episode- and it just beats one.

Rotten Tomatoes? Seasons 1-7 in order (using critics): 91, 96, 96, 97, 93, 94, 93. The lowest audience score is 87.

Season 8? 71 on critics- 41 on audience score. 

Now I'm not saying you can't enjoy season 8 or anything like that. I am merely pointing out this is hardly a small group. The consensus is that 8 is significantly worse than the previous 7, and the argument that Martin can just flesh it out in the books is an exceptionally weak one, especially given the strong send-off to Avengers that stands in such stark contract to 8.

I will say, however, that as far as I've seen Cleganebowl has been exempt from most people's complaints. That was an excellent send-off. 

I tend to agree with JD on this one, man. We've seen the same shit with Star Wars and TWD and other franchises as they round out stories and wrap things up. People spend so much time--literally years--building the story up to something it should be in their head and when it doesn't turn out to a satisfying conclusion there is RAMPANT and immediate backlash. Ratings are completely fickle and really shouldn't be pointed to as evidence of quality. TWD fans finally jumped ship a few seasons ago when it went to trash and the ratings sunk. Now they have a new showrunner and things are marginally better than they were and everyone's shitting themselves and calling it "the best TWD has ever been," which is laughable. Ratings have shot up because everyone's been saved by Angela Kang! I don't feel that's representative of quality at all, simply trends and other variables.

 

Did you watch The Sopranos when it aired? I vividly remember the vitriol and outrage at the finale and people said it had ruined one of the best shows of all time. The pacing for it seemed off at the end as well and at the time everyone kinda threw their hands up and went, "that's it? They didn't resolve shit and the end seemed rushed as hell after waiting forever for the final half of the season." Now how is it remembered? People went nuts and this was mostly before social media and pocket-internet and everyone having their viewpoint reinforced by the masses of people in rushed agreement. I think GOT will age better than a lot of the reactionary public would like to think.

 

12 hours ago, SteVo said:

Poor Zack is about to be so disappointed.

Thankfully I was not. I thoroughly enjoyed it!

2 hours ago, Thanatos said:

I kinda hope he likes it. I think he might have a shot at thinking its okay because he just bumrushed through the whole thing.

Holy shit, after your collective of posts in this thread I did not expect to see this come out of you! You nailed it, haha. I think that having watched it as one whole really allowed for the pacing issues at the end to seem smaller and really helped elucidate a lot of the storylines and their conclusions. What I mean is, from my gf's and I's perspective the storylines were all wrapped up really well and seeing them as a whole over the course of 3 weeks rather than over the course of a decade allowed for a lot of small items to be fresh in our minds.

For example, we felt like we saw the hints of Dany's descent throughout the entire show-- like Cuda said, this has been in the works for a long time. To the average viewer, however, you've had 8+ years of seeing her as the hero and forgetting or forgiving her faults along the way and her tilting toward corruption.

Dany had numerous points throughout her journey where her lust for power peaked through. Just like Tyrion said, she kept murking a bunch of awful people so it was very easy to see her as righteous along the way, but absolute power corrupts absolutely and sooner or later one is fooled into believing they're infallible. She had a lust for power and when they surrendered she was pissed because she had been talking about burning cities to the ground for the entire series, lol. After all the shit she went through and seeing Cersei chop off her most innocent follower's head they just get to fuckin' call for mercy? What an anticlimactic and blue-ballsy way to end the journey and take her throne. It wasn't her grandiose "Stallion that Mounts the World" type ending she'd been dreaming of as a girl--just like the Iron Throne being a fraction of what she'd imagined. Her turning point was jarring--it was supposed to be--but it was not without merit.

Just like many of the rulers before her, she saw it beginning to unravel and began to grasp for any shot at keeping her power. She had lost trust, people were starting to turn on her, and suddenly her lover's her nephew and he's got a better claim to her dream without trying, he's got a better grasp on her people without trying. Suddenly everyone she trusted is a threat and it's already been established that she'll do anything for her endgame. She'd have killed Jon, no doubt about it. But her one weakness throughout the entire show, aside from hubris, was trust. Most of her big losses and mistakes were to trust and it was her undoing in the end. Perfect character arc. Perfect example of how even the most noble and heroic conquest for absolute power will end the same way, in ashes.

I genuinely don't feel like any of the story ended in a place it shouldn't have. I had predicted midway through the series that the Iron Throne would be melted by the dragons (though I thought someone would be on it). Daenerys proved that nobody was truly fit for the Iron Throne and its destruction symbolically showed the death of the old way and the birth of democracy (well, almost, they laughed Sam out of the room and settled on oligarchy). Bran is the perfect figurehead "king" as he has stated that he has no "want" anymore. He's literally the embodiment of a mystical protector of the realm that sees all of time at once and will allow the realm to be protected and run by a set of swell-intentioned heroes. How anyone is upset at that conclusion or feels it doesn't make sense is beyond me. :shrug:

Everyone else had satisfying conclusions. The bad guys and most of the tragic characters died, the good guys ended up where they belonged. No death felt out of place. Very well done, imo. I think JD has a great point that if they'd have drug it out a bit it might have turned out worse...They hit all their marks and finished the series the way Martin intended (as far as I'm lead to believe).

 

To counter some of the other common complaints I've seen:

-Bran wasn't controlling time...He was experiencing it all at once. Nothing he did could change things. As he said to Jon, "you were right where you were supposed to be." Everything was already set in stone, he just became aware of it all and could see everyone's role. He had no motivations. He wasn't machinating anything to become king. He didn't want to be king and he literally had no intentions at all but to see the realm survive and the Night King fail. He accepted the position knowing that it was for the good of the realm to effectively destroy the position as it was and disseminate power.

-People got brought back from the dead multiple times and a lot of the fantastical shit in this story was chalked up to fate or the will of the gods...Like I said in a previous post, some of the situations required a bit of suspension of disbelief, but who is to say that it all didn't happen that way for a reason? Sure a lot of what the heroes did made no sense--they weren't perfect but they're what the Lord of Light had to get the job done. Maybe Daenerys had to stupidly lose another dragon to  Euron's fleet because otherwise she wouldn't have been tilted and gone ham on King's Landing and then not everyone turns on her and then Bran doesn't become king and the realm is still in danger.

-I really hate the gripe about main characters surviving. We've had plenty of death in this story--does it really make sense for the main characters of the history of the era not be the ones that lived the longest and had the most impact? None of our heroes would be being talked about as such or their stories followed if they had some lameass death like getting trampled by a zombie. These people were remembered because their stories were larger than life and they were cherry-picked for a reason.

-Jaime's return to Cersei was completely in character. YES he was a bad guy. YES he developed into a good guy. But throughout his entire storyline he's repeated the mantra, "you don't choose whom you love." He cared deeply for Brienne and wanted to stay, but he old yellered her because at the end of the day, no matter how evil Cersei was, forgetting the fact that he literally told Tyrion he never even liked her, he loved Cersei. He had to be with her despite it all. The best characters are realistic characters. The most realistic characters are the most complex and flawed. Jaime is hands down one of the best characters on the show and he was a testament to the fact that not only does love conquer all, but it can be maddeningly harmful and our ultimate downfall.

-The Night King was never the main antagonist but an imminent and peripheral threat. I love lore more than most and said many times while watching that I hoped they'd delve into it a bunch in the books. But on the screen it'd serve as more of a distraction to the main point of the series as there was already so much going on. Like JD said, we got what we needed to out of the Night King and company and the real driving force behind the show was always the political intrigue. Yes, we built up to some great battles and finally got to see them, but they were just the means to an end.

Edited by Zack_of_Steel
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Man, how I wish you could’ve been discussing this with us as it happened. Lol. 

Cant say I really disagree with anything. Glad you liked and enjoyed it to the end. 

 

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On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 12:44 AM, seanbrock said:

Honestly if Jon sided with Sansa in the war room it would have made his AND Sansa's character stronger. It would have made the tension between Dany and Jon more real and it would make it seem a lot more believable that she would think everyone was against her. Especially when she starts to notice Tyrion and Varys straying

I also would have had Euron sneak into Dragon Stone and some how kill Rhaegal and escape and torch her ships or something in a more guerilla strategy rather than make the scorpion look unstoppable only to have it become irrelevant the very next episode.

I would have also had her capture Jaime not for leaving Winterfell but for killing her father. Now that the war is over he faces his crime. Tyrion lets him go.

That whole turn was just too abrupt. 

All that could have been done in the same time frame with the same plot outcomes.

Fuck it I'll make it a lot my edit and expand on my Euron angle. Say Euron and Qubyrn poison the dragons. Rhaegal dies because he's smaller and he was weakened more in the battle of Winterfell. This makes Dany even more suspicious of her allies and makes her descend further into madness. Seeing all those scorpions would have been way more menacing with a poisoned Drogon. Then it would have been just that more badass to watch him rape Cersei and the Golden Company anyway.

another edit(lol): That would have also created tension between Jon and Dany because it would be Sam who would tend to the dragons. Her and Greyworm would be wary of having an outsider treat Drogon. Jon would be protective of his best friend as he always has been. The twist would be that it was Varys who helped them sneak in. He still supported Jon but figured the enemy of his enemy was his friend and the Dragons needed to be taken out or Dany couldn't be stopped. Tyrion finds out, rats him out because he still believes in Dany. 

I'll just add this

One, totally disagree with you about the NK. The show could have been done without the NK at all. None of it served any purpose. Jon still could have had to deal with the Wildlings coming south at the Wall. Also, could have been done completely without any of the 3 eyed Raven plot line. Think about it.

Nobody is going to convince me that this writing was anything but lazy, sloppy and contrived lol.

idk, at this point I'm just fatigued from this whole thing. 

Edited by seanbrock
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How do you sit there, after watching this show for a frickin' decade, and say that the Night King served no purpose at all... What in the actual fuck?? lol.

giphy.gif

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