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Thanatos

Game of Thrones Final Season **SPOILER WARNING**

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Condescension isn't a real response. What are you trying to say?

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Glad you liked it Zack. I'm going to eviscerate your post now (I kid, mostly), but I'm glad you liked it, seriously.

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Dany had numerous points throughout her journey where her lust for power peaked through. Just like Tyrion said, she kept murking a bunch of awful people so it was very easy to see her as righteous along the way, but absolute power corrupts absolutely and sooner or later one is fooled into believing they're infallible. She had a lust for power and when they surrendered she was pissed because she had been talking about burning cities to the ground for the entire series, lol. After all the shit she went through and seeing Cersei chop off her most innocent follower's head they just get to fuckin' call for mercy? What an anticlimactic and blue-ballsy way to end the journey and take her throne. It wasn't her grandiose "Stallion that Mounts the World" type ending she'd been dreaming of as a girl--just like the Iron Throne being a fraction of what she'd imagined. Her turning point was jarring--it was supposed to be--but it was not without merit.

Dany destroying Cersei, and refusing to accept a surrender from her makes absolute perfect sense. Dany executing soldiers makes sense, and would have been all that was needed to have a justifiable reason for conflict between her and Jon. Dany murdering thousands of innocent citizens for no reason whatsoever after having already won the war? That makes absolutely no sense at all and is not in line with her character in the slightest. Her motivation has been the Throne, from day one, and that's why Jon would be a better king. But she has never killed innocents that aren't in her way. I agree 100% she would have killed Jon, and she would kill anyone else she thought was in her way. The citizens of KL were not. At all. I think there was a way to get there. I think we started it a tiny bit with her executing the Lannister soldiers earlier, specifically Randall Tarly and his father. But its a far far cry from that to basically being 100% a villian. Dany's story was more nuanced than that and its just way too abrupt of a heel turn to 100% evil to be satisfying.

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I genuinely don't feel like any of the story ended in a place it shouldn't have. I had predicted midway through the series that the Iron Throne would be melted by the dragons (though I thought someone would be on it). Daenerys proved that nobody was truly fit for the Iron Throne and its destruction symbolically showed the death of the old way and the birth of democracy (well, almost, they laughed Sam out of the room and settled on oligarchy). Bran is the perfect figurehead "king" as he has stated that he has no "want" anymore. He's literally the embodiment of a mystical protector of the realm that sees all of time at once and will allow the realm to be protected and run by a set of swell-intentioned heroes. How anyone is upset at that conclusion or feels it doesn't make sense is beyond me.

Jon being the son of Rhaegr Targaryen was not brought up a single time in his defense at the end. The entire huge theory of R+L=J, (Rhaegr and Lyanna's son being Jon) which was proven to be true, was entirely needless. The only purpose Jon being a Targaryen served was one more nail in Dany's madness coffin. We didn't need Jon at all at the end. Sure he killed her, but so could Arya, easily, if the showrunners hadn't entirely forgot she could swap faces after season 8 started.

The idea that Jon killing the king somehow makes him ineligible to become king is completely without precedent in this show. In fact, Robert basically does exactly this to take over. He certainly doesn't want to be, but he is the heir to the Throne. Tyrion giving one speech to the "council of surviving characters" does not change that. (On a side note, not getting to see Grey Worm arrest Jon is yet another problem in the "it was implied" parts of season 8. Not seeing Bran tell Sansa and Arya is another huge spot where a very cool scene is skipped just because.) Also, what stops Jon coming back if Grey Worm and the Unsullied are just leaving? Why don't the Dothraki kill Jon as soon as they learn he killed Dany? 

Bran specifically states he cannot be Lord of Winterfell, in fact he cannot be Lord of anything, and then turns around and becomes King. For no reason at all. Bran doesn't have the best story, he hardly has a good one. (This is specifically a pacing problem and could easily be addressed in the books.) Hell, he wasn't even in season 5 at all. To further the attack on Bran, not only does he have a shit story because he does basically nothing with the 3ER's powers after acquiring them, (he does warg into some crows, but as the parody I linked stated, to what purpose we have no idea), but he also orchestrated the events that led to his becoming king. I will deal with this more below because the idea that Bran just sees the future is false. He can in fact attempt to change it, and has done so on at least three occasions in the books and once in the show.

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Everyone else had satisfying conclusions. The bad guys and most of the tragic characters died, the good guys ended up where they belonged. No death felt out of place. Very well done, imo. I think JD has a great point that if they'd have drug it out a bit it might have turned out worse...They hit all their marks and finished the series the way Martin intended (as far as I'm lead to believe).

Martin has in fact said in an intervew that he wanted the show to go ten seasons because he felt it would be too rushed, but was overruled by D&D. The endpoint, at least the major part of it, may be the same. But just as the LOTR would be shit without showing us the journey, so GoT season 8 is medicore compared to the rest because we rushed straight through the journey.

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Bran wasn't controlling time...He was experiencing it all at once. Nothing he did could change things. As he said to Jon, "you were right where you were supposed to be." Everything was already set in stone, he just became aware of it all and could see everyone's role. He had no motivations. He wasn't machinating anything to become king. He didn't want to be king and he literally had no intentions at all but to see the realm survive and the Night King fail. He accepted the position knowing that it was for the good of the realm to effectively destroy the position as it was and disseminate power.

This is simply false. The Three Eyed Raven absolutely has the power to alter the future if he so tries, using the knowledge he has. The very battle plan defending Winterfell is proof of that. He specifically sits out there to lure the Night King to him. He manipulates events so that the NK dies. Now he has to be very careful when doing so, but to state that he cannot change things is just not true. He also unintentionally in the TV series, intentionally in the books, wargs into Hodor in the past, causing him to have a psychotic break and affecting him for the rest of his life. This is inside of a vision he is having of the past, proving that he can in fact interact with it and alter reality.

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People got brought back from the dead multiple times and a lot of the fantastical shit in this story was chalked up to fate or the will of the gods...Like I said in a previous post, some of the situations required a bit of suspension of disbelief, but who is to say that it all didn't happen that way for a reason? Sure a lot of what the heroes did made no sense--they weren't perfect but they're what the Lord of Light had to get the job done. Maybe Daenerys had to stupidly lose another dragon to  Euron's fleet because otherwise she wouldn't have been tilted and gone ham on King's Landing and then not everyone turns on her and then Bran doesn't become king and the realm is still in danger.

Dany losing a dragon to Euron is stupid, IMO, regardless. Euron in the show is a dumb character that is one dimensional. However, the specific problem with it is not that it happened, its how it happened. There are believable ways to make Euron be able to kill a dragon. Having him snipe it three times from a huge distance without anyone seeing them- and having the stated reasoning from the directors be that "Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet"- is the problem with that scenario. Especially when we followed it up with Drogon torching the entire fleet at sea despite them knowing he is coming right at them in the next episode. It also is stupid because Euron apparently just leaves and lets the survivors swim ashore instead of ending the threat right there and then.

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I really hate the gripe about main characters surviving. We've had plenty of death in this story--does it really make sense for the main characters of the history of the era not be the ones that lived the longest and had the most impact? None of our heroes would be being talked about as such or their stories followed if they had some lameass death like getting trampled by a zombie. These people were remembered because their stories were larger than life and they were cherry-picked for a reason.

Again, the issue is not necessarily they all survived, its that we constantly got scenes of people getting dogpiled by zombies, then we would cut away, and then we would come back and they would be fine. Brienne dying there makes perfect sense, though, and we never really see her again after Winterfell except for some reason at a council she has no business being at. OH- And also Jaime gets to dump her after their one-night stand and cause her to cry. Still hate that scene.

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Jaime's return to Cersei was completely in character. YES he was a bad guy. YES he developed into a good guy. But throughout his entire storyline he's repeated the mantra, "you don't choose whom you love." He cared deeply for Brienne and wanted to stay, but he old yellered her because at the end of the day, no matter how evil Cersei was, forgetting the fact that he literally told Tyrion he never even liked her, he

loved Cersei. He had to be with her despite it all. The best characters are realistic characters. The most realistic characters are the most complex and flawed. Jaime is hands down one of the best characters on the show and he was a testament to the fact that not only does love conquer all, but it can be maddeningly harmful and our ultimate downfall.

It was, and it wasn't. Two things. First, the prophecy that was given to Cersei in the books AND in the show, which the books reference many times, is just tossed aside. It's just not good writing. Secondly, Jaime telling Tyrion he doesn't care about the people of KL, just about Cersei, is a direct contradiction to his entire character, I can only justify it there by saying maybe he was lying to Tyrion. I don't mind a redemption arc getting destroyed because of love for a bad person. I don't even really have that much of an issue with Jaime's entire arc except for the fact that we just ignored the prophecy of the Valonqar.

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The Night King was never the main antagonist but an imminent and peripheral threat. I love lore more than most and said many times while watching that I hoped they'd delve into it a bunch in the books. But on the screen it'd serve as more of a distraction to the main point of the series as there was already so much going on. Like JD said, we got what we needed to out of the Night King and company and the real driving force behind the show was always the political intrigue. Yes, we built up to some great battles and finally got to see them, but they were just the means to an end.

The Night King is absolutely the main antagonist. Was Sauron not the main antagonist of LOTR? They both were just "imminent threats". The series is called a Song of Ice and Fire for a reason. The "afterwards"- ep. 4-6- is Martin's version of the sacking of the Shire in the Return of the King- Martin even says so himself, he loved that part in the series and wanted a parallel in GoT. But that doesn't mean the NK is not the main bad guy. We have him looming over everything and everyone and for his entire march to be stopped in one episode is the entire problem with this. I have no issue with the NK dying before the ending, it was the horrible pacing of the season that was the problem there. Well that, and the ignoring of a second major prophecy- that of Azor Ahai. Thats the entire motivation of not only Melisandre- its why she burned Princess Shireen because she believed Stannis to be Azor Ahai, its why she brings Jon back, its why she does everything- but all of the Red Priests, including Thoros of Myr, (who is dead at this point in the books, but he's alive here), and its just entirely ignored after being teased at many times. 

There is a ton of issues with pacing and explanations and just because D&D wanted to hurry up and finish so they could do Star Wars has done a major disservice to the ending of a fantastic series. Again, I reject the idea that its just because its GoT that the ratings were so bad. In the entire history of TV series that lasted 3+ seasons, only House of Cards has a greater discrepancy between the final season and the rest.

Expectations could account for a drop off, not this nosedive off a cliff. Season 8 would be okay if it was the ending for a generic fantasy series. Its not okay because GoT was a lot more than that. 

Edited by Thanatos
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@ThanatosEh, I think it's obvious you just don't understand the ending, bro. Fuckin millennials 

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Zack, I agree with you one thing:

GoT will age well. Not a fan of how people (no one on here) act like this season ruins everything. The season was at least entertaining and the rest of the series is pretty great.

My one counterpoint to you blaming the fans for not liking it because it didn't happen the way they wanted it to:

I assume you at least saw the negative reaction to this past season, right? So is it not fair to say that you went in with tempered expectations? I could see that making it more palatable for someone binging it after the fact. 

Ending != bad

Delivery of said ending = bad

Edited by BJORN
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Gonna be interesting to see how Martin ends it when winds of winter comes out. One positive is this could get people to read.

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16 hours ago, seanbrock said:

Condescension isn't a real response. What are you trying to say?

Winds of Winter isn't the end. Dreams of Spring comes after. And he's been throwing around an Arya adventures sequel, which could be pretty bad ass. 

As for the ending, " I don't think Dan and Dave's ending is going to be that different from my ending. But they may be on certain secondary characters". 
 

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What if we get a book for the whole fight for the Dawn and a book resolving the claims to the throne? 

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I think that's about what we are getting. I don't know if he's said where Winds is ending exactly but it kind of makes sense that that is where it will split.

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21 minutes ago, DalaiLama4Ever said:

I think that's about what we are getting. I don't know if he's said where Winds is ending exactly but it kind of makes sense that that is where it will split.

That sure does make it regrettable that they tried to cram everything into one season, man...to say the least. Considering that both books could(likely will be) be around 1000 pages...yikes. I mean, I understand there are a lot of external factors at play in making that decision but damn lol

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We got the cliff notes version of what happens in those upwards of 3000 unwritten pages.  As I have mentioned before, if your stance is that Dan and Dave are bad writers, I don't know why you'd want them to fabricate all these extra details that Martin hasn't written yet. Seems contradictory.

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2 minutes ago, DalaiLama4Ever said:

We got the cliff notes version of what happens in those upwards of 3000 unwritten pages.  As I have mentioned before, if your stance is that Dan and Dave are bad writers, I don't know why you'd want them to fabricate all these extra details that Martin hasn't written yet. Seems contradictory.

I think it was lazy though. With very little effort I feel like I came up with ideas to make the whole thing make more sense. Maybe I'm rooting my own horn. I've certainly been known to do that in the past but I just feel like I can understand why they might have even had to rush it. I just think that there's no way that they weren't capable of delivering something better.

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I think "lazy" is the wrong way to describe it.

That's a lot of the reason that so many people were disappointed with how the series ended. They had, in their minds, "ideas" on how the series would end. And no person had exactly the same ideas or hopes for the wrap up as the next. I really think they went into making a game of thrones TV show wanting to be as loyal to Martin's version as possible. It's not really possible to be 100% authentic, but they did a hell of a job in that department. When they announced this series, Martin said there was no way the shows would catch up to the books. Well, almost ten years later and that was proven to be a bit folly. Martin himself has said this, and that the show is like 95% accurate to the books.

What do you do, when the show you are creating to be authentic to the written material all of a sudden no longer has written material? Ramp up and take more time with actions sequences, cut down on dialogue and cut corners with character development... Again, this was a cliff notes version of the events that will eventually play out in the show. Do some fans have good ideas on how the show could've ended? Sure. Do some of your ideas have merit in filling out some of the details? Not at all. Kappa. Joking, sure they do. Could Dan and Dave literally made stuff up to extend the series? Sure. 

But that would have run completely contrary to this project and undertaking. It would have, IMO, felt contrived and not loyal to the material. In the end, all of that extra "stuff" would have just been glorified fan fiction. If that's something I wanted, I would just go read the fan fictions posted all over the internet. And that isn't to shit on the fan fics, a lot of them are really good... But they are still just fan fics.

I am glad they chose to be "lazy" and not fabricate and run away with material that isn't theirs. 

Edit: 

The only credible and authentic way they could've extended this series would have been to wait for Martin to write two full 1000+ page novels -- one of which has been in progress for 8 years. That just isn't feasible -- to hold off production of the seasons until Martin is either A) done writing them or B) thinks them up and tells them before he writes it down. 

Don't get me wrong. It would have been great to get an extra 2 seasons or so. Really flesh everything out more. However, it just wasn't meant to be. The good news is Martin, IIRC, is working directly with these prequel series in development. Bad news is that that takes up a lot of time and will slow down Winds and Dreams quite a bit. lol.

Edited by DalaiLama4Ever
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10 hours ago, DalaiLama4Ever said:

I think "lazy" is the wrong way to describe it.

That's a lot of the reason that so many people were disappointed with how the series ended. They had, in their minds, "ideas" on how the series would end. And no person had exactly the same ideas or hopes for the wrap up as the next. I really think they went into making a game of thrones TV show wanting to be as loyal to Martin's version as possible. It's not really possible to be 100% authentic, but they did a hell of a job in that department. When they announced this series, Martin said there was no way the shows would catch up to the books. Well, almost ten years later and that was proven to be a bit folly. Martin himself has said this, and that the show is like 95% accurate to the books.

I hate this take so much. No, the vast majority of people are not upset because the finale didn't line up exactly how they wanted, this is a condescending way to brush off the majority of valid complaints. This is a standard line when any big series comes to an end and people disliked it. "Oh you just didn't like it because it didn't line up with what you wanted it to be."

You'd have a bunch of nitpicky things to throw at the finale if it didnt end the way you wanted, not just a general sense of how horrible it was comparative to the rest of the series.

People dislike the finale because it was a bad finale to a fantastic series.

I feel like, IF Martin ever writes Winds and Dreams, there is a solid chance the finale becomes more palatable, because we can read the "behind the scenes" motivations and stuff that we no longer got in the show. There are tons of ways to show Dany's descent into madness- among many, many other things- better than what was done. Are D&D actual writers, or just copiers? Let's hope for SW sake its the former. Don't give me this "Martin didn't tell them exactly what to do, so therefore you really didn't want them even trying to come up with anything longer." Bullshit. Reddit has a dozen different ways to show stuff better, explain things in more detail, etc.

D&D wanted to do Star Wars so they refused to go past eight seasons- they originally wanted seven. The actors being tired of acting in this series and wanting to move on to more stuff- this is a legit reason, if it is a true one. D&D just wanted to end it so they could move on to SW. Don't keep defending these two, it's just ridiculous at this point when they've come out and said as much. I don't think they are bad writers- I think they didn't even try. They just wanted it to end.

Edited by Thanatos
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I never said that was the only reason people didn’t like it. Not to mention, both can be true.... 

You can be upset that the ending didn’t unfold like you wanted but also dislike the writing or whatever else complaints there are. Just in this thread alone there many “ I wish this would have happened instead “ scenarios — if you don’t think that plays a part in people’s dislike, well idk what to say. Lol. 

Also, you haven’t seen nit picky complaints? Really? It’s not all, naturally, but those complaints exist and you don’t have to go further than this thread to see some of those. 

Also calling them “copiers” like it’s some insult is... uh... interesting. Considering they were adapting a book into a tv series... that’s kind of the entire point — to “copy” the book. 

You don’t go into an adaptation looking to flex your imagination and do something totally on your own. What’s the point of that? I mean you can, but if that’s what they wanted they would’ve just done that at the onset. They established what they wanted to do with this project from the very beginning — and that was showing a very high loyalty to the source material. So to see what they did for so long and then call them out for it now seems cheap and unfair. 

Saying things like “they were lazy” or “they just wanted it to end” is faulty logic IMO. Those are just convenient and quick excuses propagated by the outrage culture. That’s just not true.

You can not like that Dan and Dave didn’t want to create their own world inside Martins work. You can disagree with their decision to not turn this into some large scale fan fic. I don’t think that makes it bad, though. 

You can sit there and tell me alllll about all the fan fics that make sense and they could’ve done — but I believe that only strengthens many of the points I have brought forward (I.e. my last post talking about fan fics, being outraged it didn’t end the way you want, etc). This isn’t a fan fic. This is an adaptation of some great ass books and I want to keep them that way. 

No matter how great your Thrones fan fic is — that’s all it ever will be, a fan Fic. Leave that shit to the blogs, YouTube videos, etc. I don’t want them on my tv screen.

Edited by DalaiLama4Ever
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Everyone knows we're not getting another season 8 lol. It's not about that. This season was lazy. It wouldn't have been hard for them to hit the same plot points and have it actually make sense and actually build a little bit of drama. If you think it makes perfect sense and it was great, then so be it. I'm glad you enjoyed it like, Than said to Zack. At this point we're all just repeating the same points we made 3 pages ago.

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On 6/2/2019 at 12:19 AM, DalaiLama4Ever said:

I never said that was the only reason people didn’t like it. Not to mention, both can be true.... 

You can be upset that the ending didn’t unfold like you wanted but also dislike the writing or whatever else complaints there are. Just in this thread alone there many “ I wish this would have happened instead “ scenarios — if you don’t think that plays a part in people’s dislike, well idk what to say. Lol. 

Also, you haven’t seen nit picky complaints? Really? It’s not all, naturally, but those complaints exist and you don’t have to go further than this thread to see some of those.

I said that you would ONLY see nit-picky things if all that was wrong was the direction, not that you wouldn't see them regardless. Everyone is always, regardless of how a show ends, going to throw out nit-picky reasons why its not a good ending. You do not see this kind of widescale dissatisfaction with a series ending unless there were major underlying problems. I refer- again- to the fact that only House of Cards had a worse finale. Dismissing it as simply "outrage culture" is a boring, lazy excuse that writers/directors use to justify writing a shit ending.

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Also calling them “copiers” like it’s some insult is... uh... interesting. Considering they were adapting a book into a tv series... that’s kind of the entire point — to “copy” the book.

If all D&D can do is copy, then yes, that's an insult. If they are incapable of being writers of their own accord, god help Star Wars, is all I'm saying. If you seriously think so little of them that you think they cannot possibly come up with anything better than season 8's ending, I really don't know what to say. How did they get there in the first place?

Saying "they had to do it this way because Martin only gave them the bare bones and filling it in would be wrong" is just nuts. They have plenty of times changed what Martin did to make it fit the TV screen better, how is fleshing out details that may be different in the books since they didn't know, any different at all to, say, removing Catelyn Stark or Young Griff or anything else they've cut/added? 

See, you and I fundamentally disagree on this. They didn't run out of material- they specifically chose to cut material because it would make the series longer. The series started to go downhill not when they passed the books but when they ignored them. 

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Saying things like “they were lazy” or “they just wanted it to end” is faulty logic IMO. Those are just convenient and quick excuses propagated by the outrage culture. That’s just not true.

Um... yes it is. D&D themselves have said they wanted it to end. HBO has said it. Martin has said it. This is not faulty logic, this is absolute cold hard fact. Acting like this is someone projecting is just flat out wrong, lmao.

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You can not like that Dan and Dave didn’t want to create their own world inside Martins work. You can disagree with their decision to not turn this into some large scale fan fic. I don’t think that makes it bad, though. 

You can sit there and tell me alllll about all the fan fics that make sense and they could’ve done — but I believe that only strengthens many of the points I have brought forward (I.e. my last post talking about fan fics, being outraged it didn’t end the way you want, etc). This isn’t a fan fic. This is an adaptation of some great ass books and I want to keep them that way. 

No matter how great your Thrones fan fic is — that’s all it ever will be, a fan Fic. Leave that shit to the blogs, YouTube videos, etc. I don’t want them on my tv screen.

Wow, what a strawman. So now critiquing an ending and giving an outline of how it could be better is fanfic? I take it back you probably shouldn't be the PR guy, you'd piss off half the people watching by telling them how anything they critique is just wanting a different ending, they don't know what want, and everything is absolutely just as good as it could have been, there's no possible way to make anything better and how dare you even question how we ended things. A bunch of amateurs on the internet can come up with 15 different ways to enhance the very same endings we already had, thus proving that if D&D cared, they also could have done so? This is not valid critique, this is fanfic, and we can just dismiss it as such with a wave of our hands. Let's pretend like they are saying we wanted those endings, not making a point that amateur writers making a far better way of ending the show in the same manner proves that D&D could have done so as well, thus dismissing the entirety of those complaints as just wanting a different ending and "those kinds of people will never be satisfied".

I've honestly never seen such a ridiculous defense of a show's shitty ending. Congrats.

"We think its kinda ridiculous that Dany had such an abrupt heel-turn, here's some ways it could have been fleshed out better, using conversations that were basically already in the series, simply at different points in the season." "What a load of fanfic!"

"We think its kinda silly that no one even brings up who Jon is after spending like five seasons leading up to a reveal of it." "Fanfic!"

"We think that Euron sniping Rhaegal out of the sky because "Dany kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet" is a absolutely stupid way to kill off a dragon. Furthermore, Dany turning around and destroying all the ships in the next episode then makes absolutely no sense at all." "FANFIIIICCCC!"

Saying Dan and Jony should have kissed and made up because I want them to and ruled on the Iron Throne together- that's fanfic. Dismissing valid critique of a show as fanfic simply because said critique gives a better way to do exactly what the show already did, is the last desperate bastion of embattled writers/show defenders who know deep down that we are absolutely right, there were plenty of better ways to do the same thing they already did that were much more in line with Game of Thrones.

Gotta go get that Star Wars money, though, amiright?

Edited by Thanatos
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Nah, you wouldn’t see “only” picky things ... That’s a logical fallacy. It’s not an either or type of situation. There is lots of in between that you simply aren’t accounting for. 

You’re just looking at this through black and white lenses. You need to add a bit of color to your perspective. 

 

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1 hour ago, DalaiLama4Ever said:

Nah, you wouldn’t see “only” picky things ... That’s a logical fallacy. It’s not an either or type of situation. There is lots of in between that you simply aren’t accounting for. 

You’re just looking at this through black and white lenses. You need to add a bit of color to your perspective. 

The facts just don't support your argument, my man.

But at this point its quite silly, no one is convincing anyone here. I only get pissed off when people act like the only reason why we're not happy with the endings is because they didn't do what we wanted them to do. Not it at all. 

I am genuinely happy you liked it. I wish I could.

Your forum is eating my quote though, idk whats going on there lol. Spent like 15 minutes trying to figure out how to get my words out of your quote box but it wont let me do it lol.

Edited by Thanatos
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On 5/30/2019 at 9:08 PM, Zack_of_Steel said:

Did you watch The Sopranos when it aired? I vividly remember the vitriol and outrage at the finale and people said it had ruined one of the best shows of all time. The pacing for it seemed off at the end as well and at the time everyone kinda threw their hands up and went, "that's it? They didn't resolve shit and the end seemed rushed as hell after waiting forever for the final half of the season." Now how is it remembered? People went nuts and this was mostly before social media and pocket-internet and everyone having their viewpoint reinforced by the masses of people in rushed agreement. I think GOT will age better than a lot of the reactionary public would like to think.

This is very true, but I want to point out a few things about The Sopranos, since I'm a Sopranos homer.

1) Many fans of the show always misunderstood it. The so-called "hits and tits" crowd thought it was a pure mob show and raged at every episode that didn't have a mob war. So they were set up for disappointment. Was the ending to the final season anticlimactic? Yes. But the concept of anticlimax had been used so often it was firmly established.

2) Sopranos had always been more thematically rich than Game of Thrones. Whereas Thrones is mostly plot-driven and doesn't go much deeper thematically than "power corrupts," Sopranos is much deeper. So of course the finale would be more challenging to viewers. Anyone who went in to that episode thinking its purpose would solely be to reveal the fate of Tony Soprano was, again, set up for disappointment.

So basically what I'm saying is the final season of Sopranos was absolutely consistent with the pacing and structure of the show up to that point. I cannot say the same about the final two seasons of Thrones.

Edited by SteVo
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Don't you guys think trial by combat, Greyworm vs. Jon would have been sick? I definitely wanted to see them go at it after all that tension between them during the sack of Kings Landing. They made Jon a total bitch this season "She's muh Queen" lol. He had nothing to say for himself. Nothing to say for his people? I feel like Jon's character was sacrificed BIG TIME for Sansa and Arya and I cannot understand why lol. Jon doesn't have to be a pussy for his sisters to be bad ass. I feel like that's just a Hollywood thing these days though tbh :yao: 

Edited by seanbrock

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Would it have been cool ? Sure. I mean, how can you have too many one v one combat scenes ? Lol. 

But they were establishing Greyworm as someone who was ready to move on from the fighting. He had this discussion with Missendei , “ but my people are peaceful “. He needs justice for Dany, he compromises and gets that and then sails for her home land. It was a really good ending for him. 

And how often has Jon ever done things for himself. He’s the Ned Stark mold of ultimate loyalty and sacrifice. A lot of his plot and development comes from saving everyone else lol.

Sansa was groomed to rule and had this aspirations, unlike Jon. Also, I don't think she is a good example of "just hollywood". Avengers doing that cheesy female team-up was "just hollywood" lol. 

Edited by DalaiLama4Ever
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Way to break the board, Than.

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I've been in Madison for Pokemon, but I just read through and I have a lot of thoughts I'll be back to share.

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That's funny, I was just in Madison this past weekend. Really cool city, albeit a bit too hipster for my taste.

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