The Most Important Halloween Question

[Omerta+ 1,206]

So it is my favorite time of year and the office talk always revolves around the best horror franchise, and most of, although not all, horror credibility is the main antagonist for the franchise. So who do you have and why? Lets get a rank choice here. Top 5. 5th will get 1 point, and 1st will get 5 points. The other ones are irrelevant lol.

 

1.) Michael Myers (Halloween) Honestly this isnt even close to me. He was easily the best because of his presence. He did not have as much gore but the stalking and foreshadowing was intense. He had it all, the look, the unstoppable nature, the back story, the walk, just the best.

2.) Ghost Face. There was something about the perpetual nature of the mask. It wasnt so much the killers as what the mask represented to me. It was the mystery of it all, this was a whodunnit that could stay interesting even though it did not need a complete cast remake and the star heroine and her nemesis made this awesome. 

3.)  Jason Voorhees. He is pretty much a watered down Michael Myers, but a force to be reckoned with all the same. The backstory was good, but it all went to shit after the 3rd one, although Jason takes Manhattan had some redeeming qualities. 

4.) Jigsaw. An actual flesh and blood human who used his wits to get people to appreciate their lives or exact revenge. IT was creative and brutal but completely plausible given the right circumstances. He could be killed and he was at one point, but he still found a way to test and inspire proteges. 

5.) Candyman. I absolutely loved the premise of the original, I though it was an awesome way to introduce a movie antagonist. It was original and it capitalized on a visceral fear of the 90's kids who did this shit. He was a scary enough guy and the character was written well.

The other 2 are shit in my opinion. Hellraiser was never scary to me and Freddie was just a loser ass pedo who was burned alive, but somehow attacked people while dreaming. 

 

I wouldnt mind doing more of these like best franchise, best one off horror movies, and so on. Come up with ideas you fucks.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

I saw this thread yesterday, but I wanted to give it some thought before I answered. 

1. Michael Myers. I couldn't agree more with you, Ngata. Michael Myers was the original badass. He had it all: a chilling backstory, super-human strength and invulnerability, stalking, an imposing presence and walk, and the best mask. There's one more thing that sets Michael apart: his foil characters. No other slasher villain has foil characters in Michael's level. In fact he has the two greatest foil characters in horror movies history. We all know that Laurie Strode is the baddest chick ever to grace the horror screen. How do you escape the terror of your own brother? But there's also the timeless and venerable Dr. Loomis. Loomis' monologues as he chases Michael through the streets of Haddonfield are incomparable. Halloween was a game-changer in the horror genre; it was filmed and produced on a shoe-string budget and still influences new horror films more than 40 years after its release. Every basketball player wants to Be Like Mike, and so does every slasher villain. In fact, in Wes Craven's Scream, he unashamedly pays homage to Halloween all throughout the movie: one of the killers is Billy Loomis (same last name as Dr. Loomis). But the biggest tribute was when all the kids were at Stu's house for the Massacre Party and what movie were they watching? Halloween. Wes Craven admired Halloween so much that he played an entire scene from it in his movie. What could be a better tribute than that?

2. Freddie Kruger. Here's where I diverge from you. Although your description of Freddie Kruger as a loser ass pedo who was burned alive isn't inaccurate, it doesn't do the character justice. In my mind it is part of what makes his character even more gruesome. Whether you kill a pedophile or he goes to jail, the impact of what he did never really goes away. Unfortunately, Jerry Sandusky is a real life example of that. 50 years from now, Penn State will still be haunted by his memory. Well Wes Craven took it a step further and made that loser ass pedo a psycho killers who not only haunts your nightmares but kills you in them. Kruger is responsible for sleepless nights of generations of children. Most young kids have issues with nightmares in general, and watching a movie about a guy who kills people in their nightmares just fuels those flames even more. And the song with the little girls playing hopscotch "1 2 Freddie's coming for you. 3 4 better lock your door. 5 6 grab your crucifix. 7 8 better stay up late. 9 10 never sleep again" stands as arguably the creepiest thing in horror film history. Freddie was the first guy that scared the piss out of me. That's because I saw A Nightmare on Elm Street before Halloween. Nonetheless I consider Wes Craven's crown jewel a true horror icon, and finishing 2nd to Michael is nothing to be ashamed of. 

3. Jason Voorhees. The Sultan of Slash, His Hockey-Masked Highness, The God of Gore. Jason could be given a lot of nicknames, and he probably has earned them all. Jason made hockey masks more popular than hockey players did. That says a lot. Of the Holy Trinity of slasher villains, Jason is the toughest and most physically imposing. In Freddy vs. Jason, Freddy couldn't kill Jason even while Jason was asleep. But when the Big Dog woke up, it was lights out for Pedo Boy. The signature "ki-ki-ki, ma-ma-ma"  (Jason's way of saying kill them, mommy!) that we hear when Jason stalks his victims is a legendary sound-effect in horror. It seems that I'm a huge fan of Jason, and I am. So why is he only 3rd on my list? The first reason is that Jason isn't even the original killer in his franchise; Mrs. Voorhees was the killer in the very beginning. Does that really matter? Well if we're choosing the greatest of all time, then yes, yes it does. The other reason is that Jason never had a foil character follow him around throughout the series. Michael Myers had 2, and they were the best to ever do it. All that said, Jason definitely deserves this spot, and I understand completely if someone puts him higher. 

4. Ghostface. After the highly-successful runs of Jason and Freddie in the 1980's, horror was ready for a new face. Those 2 had established themselves as legends, but horror fans needed a fresh face to fear. Wes Craven once again was up to the task. 1996's Scream introduced us to Ghostface. Ghostface borrowed many ideas and tactics from his (or her) horror ancestors, but added his own twist: calling the victims from inside their houses while stalking them. Ghostface was equal parts a homage to the great films of the past and a parody of how corny they could be. Nonetheless, Scream became the most popular slasher film from the mid 1990s onward. And the franchise introduced us to another great Fearsome Female: Sidney Prescott. Sidney became to the 90s and 00s what Laurie Strode was to the 70s and 80s--a kick-ass foil character who refused to die and would kick the killer's ass in the process. So Ghostface had many things in his favor: originality, a modern twist, and a great foil character to boot. Why is he only #4 then? Two reasons: one, it wasn't the same character in every movie. If you want to be a legend, you have to earn it every movie for a while. Some people could argue this gives Ghostface a cool advantage that the others don't have: anyone can dawn the mask and cause a town to cowar in fear. I get it. I just believe there's something to be said for continuity when we're talking the greatest of all time. The other reason is that Ghostface has become the most parodied killer of all time. It is difficult to take him as seriously as the others thanks to Scary Movie. But perhaps that means he is only a victim of his own success. Either way, I can't put him on the same level as the Horrible Trinity. They did it better and longer. 

5. I'm leaving this blank. Nobody else is worth mentioning. 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Sarge

[Omerta+ 1,206]

4 minutes ago, Sarge said:

I saw this thread yesterday, but I wanted to give it some thought before I answered. 

1. Michael Myers. I couldn't agree more with you, Ngata. Michael Myers was the original badass. He had it all: a chilling backstory, super-human strength and invulnerability, stalking, an imposing presence and walk, and the best mask. There's one more thing that sets Michael apart: his foil characters. No other slasher villain has foil characters in Michael's level. In fact he has the two greatest foil characters in horror movies history. We all know that Laurie Strode is the baddest chick ever to grace the horror screen. How do you escape the terror of your own brother? But there's also the timeless and venerable Dr. Loomis. Loomis' monologues as he chases Michael through the streets of Haddonfield are incomparable. Halloween was a game-changer in the horror genre; it was filmed and produced on a shoe-string budget and still influences new horror films more than 40 years after its release. Every basketball player wants to Be Like Mike, and so does every slasher villain. In fact, in Wes Craven's Scream, he unashamedly pays homage to Halloween all throughout the movie: one of the killers is Billy Loomis (same last name as Dr. Loomis). But the biggest tribute was when all the kids were at Stu's house for the Massacre Party and what movie were they watching? Halloween. Wes Craven admired Halloween so much that he played an entire scene from it in his movie. What could be a better tribute than that?

2. Freddie Kruger. Here's where I diverge from you. Although your description of Freddie Kruger as a loser ass pedo who was burned alive isn't inaccurate, it doesn't do the character justice. In my mind it is part of what makes his character even more gruesome. Whether you kill a pedophile or he goes to jail, the impact of what he did never really goes away. Unfortunately, Jerry Sandusky is a real life example of that. 50 years from now, Penn State will still be haunted by his memory. Well Wes Craven took it a step further and made that loser ass pedo a psycho killers who not only haunts your nightmares but kills you in them. Freddie was the first guy that scared the piss out of me. That's because I saw A Nightmare on Elm Street before Halloween. Nonetheless I consider Wes Craven's crown jewel a true horror icon, and finishing 2nd to Michael is nothing to be ashamed of. 

3. Jason Voorhees. The Sultan of Slash, His Hockey-Masked Highness, The God of Gore. Jason could be given a lot of nicknames, and he probably has earned them all. Jason made hockey masks more popular than hockey players did. That says a lot. Of the Holy Trinity of slasher villains, Jason is the toughest and most physically imposing. In Freddy vs. Jason, Freddy couldn't kill Jason even while Jason was asleep. But when the Big Dog woke up, it was lights out for Pedo Boy. The signature "ki-ki-ki, ma-ma-ma"  (Jason's way of saying kill them, mommy!) that we hear when Jason stalks his victims is a legendary sound-effect in horror. It seems that I'm a huge fan of Jason, and I am. So why is he only 3rd on my list? The first reason is that Jason isn't even the original killer in his franchise; Mrs. Voorhees was the killer in the very beginning. Does that really matter? Well if we're choosing the greatest of all time, then yes, yes it does. The other reason is that Jason never had a foil character follow him around throughout the series. Michael Myers had 2, and they were the best to ever do it. All that said, Jason definitely deserves this spot, and I understand completely if someone puts him higher. 

4. Ghostface. After the highly-successful runs of Jason and Freddie in the 1980's, horror was ready for a new face. Those 2 had established themselves as legends, but horror fans needed a fresh face to fear. Wes Craven once again was up to the task. 1996's Scream introduced us to Ghostface. Ghostface borrowed many ideas and tactics from his (or her) horror ancestors, but added his own twist: calling the victims from inside their houses while stalking them. Ghostface was equal parts a homage to the great films of the past and a parody of how corny they could be. Nonetheless, Scream became the most popular slasher film from the mid 1990s onward. And the franchise introduced us to another great Fearsome Female: Sidney Prescott. Sidney became to the 90s and 00s what Laurie Strode was to the 70s and 80s--a kick-ass foil character who refused to die and would kick the killer's ass in the process. So Ghostface had many things in his favor: originality, a modern twist, and a great foil character to boot. Why is he only #4 then? Two reasons: one, it wasn't the same character in every movie. If you want to be a legend, you have to earn it every movie for a while. Some people could argue this gives Ghostface a cool advantage that the others don't have: anyone can dawn the mask and cause a town to cowar in fear. I get it. I just believe there's something to be said for continuity when we're talking the greatest of all time. The other reason is that Ghostface has become the most parodied killer of all time. It is difficult to take him as seriously as the others thanks to Scary Movie. But perhaps that means he is only a victim of his own success. Either way, I can't put him on the same level as the Horrible Trinity. They did it better and longer. 

5. I'm leaving this blank. Nobody else is worth mentioning. 

 

I knew we would agree on Halloween, Michael is the GOAT. I do enjoy the foil characters that you brought up because that is an underrated part of the horror genre that people often forget. If there is just an unstoppable character there is no point to a movie because there is no drama. And if you think about how groundbreaking it was that a woman was the foil character, and a high school one at that. I think that had a lot to do with the fact that one of the writers was a woman (Debra Hill) and that she understood the high school dynamic. Loomis was one of the great character actors of his time,  and I think Halloween was some of his best performances. When they did the voice-over for his characters for Haloween H20 (It wasn't him, but a voice actor), you can tell how much his voice was kind of a character of its own. 

When it comes to Freddy, I'll be honest I never saw the angle of how something like being a victim of being a pedophilia would haunt you years later, I never made the connection of that is why he does it in their dreams, and the haunting's are his playground. He is still a loser ass pedo, but I guess the villain of the movie is supposed to bring angst in some form, Freddy isn't really scary, but he is hate-able so you root for the kids. I would disagree that Freddy is his crown jewel, I would say it is probably Scream, but I could see how you would make that argument. 

Jason's lack of a foil character was both a strength and a weakness for me. He did have somewhat of a foil character though in Tommy Jarvis. The lack of a real foil character was kind of cool though because every movie you got to guess who was going to be the survivor girl. Although you could always tell in the first 5 minutes. It was always the sexually repressed nerd who didnt drink, thus enforcing the rules of horror.

I thought Candyman was a strong Villain, although given the importance that you place on a foil character it probably isn't as great for you.

As a side not, have you seen the Scream TV series ?