Glanvilles Grits 142 Posted August 25, 2011 I agree with not calling someone an idiot for posting their opinion. There is no sense in insulting someone just because you don't agree with them. However, if you are going to make a claim such as saying Collie is one of the best WRs in the NFL, then you can expect most everyone to challenge that claim. Which is when you would then back up said claim. Thats the purpose of a forum. If he, or you, don't post what you did, no one questions it and there is never a discussion. Just a bunch of lists. If I posted right now that Roddy White doesn't deserve to be in the top 10 and that the Falcons were definitely finishing last in the division, I'm positive you would at least challenge that claim and want me to explain my reasoning. Bet your arse I would! :beerchug2: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milla4Prez63 678 Posted August 25, 2011 9 games played. No offense, but I don't know why you guys start these threads. You all should just post one list, and let people look at it. Someone posts their opinionated list as the thread asks, and they get heckled off the forums nearly because it's different. Don't ask peoples opinion then complain it's not the exact same as yours and call them an idiots. I understand the whole respect thing on a forum, but seriously, I would think someone being willing to share their opinion should allow them to get more respect than someone just calling them an idiot. . Who cares if he only played in nine games last year? Staying healthy is a part of football. I don't see how a guy can be a top 5 WR when he's failed to put together a healthy big time season. I wouldn't even rank Collie in the top 20 WRs in the league (maybe even top 30 and beyond), let alone the top 5. Let's see him actually put something together rather than just some potential in an injury riddled season. Just because a thread is opinionated doesn't mean people can't be called out on their opinion, especially when it is as absurd as listing Austin Collie as a top 5 WR. I also didn't call him an idiot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Put_The_Team_On_My_Back 1 Posted August 26, 2011 1. Andre Johnson 2. Fitz 3. Greg(put da team on my back)Jennings 4. Megatron 5. Reggie Wayne 6. Roddy White 7. Dwayne Bowe 8. Desean Jackson 9. Mike Wallace 10. Hakeem Nicks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BwareDWare94 723 Posted August 26, 2011 Ugh. I have no idea how DeSean Jackson gets on these lists. All 3 of the other BEAST teams have a WR who's better than D-Jack Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BC 331 Posted August 26, 2011 Why would Miles Austin make anyones list? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted August 26, 2011 Well, regardless of your bickering, I decided to compile the aggregate rankings from you guys and that way we can have a list that no one can agree with. From the 23 lists... 1. Andre Johnson (218) 2. Larry Fitzgerald (206) 3. Calvin Johnson (188) 4. Roddy White (151) 5. Greg Jennings (125) 6. Reggie Wayne (113) 7. Mike Wallace (62) 8. Dwayne Bowe (46) 9. Hakeem Nicks (41) 10t. Santonio Holmes (17) 10t. DeSean Jackson (17) --- 12. Brandon Lloyd (15) 13t. Vincent Jackson (13) 13t. Miles Austin (13) 15. Marques Colston (12) 16. Brandon Marshall (8) 17t. Mike Williams (7) (I assume BC voted for the Bucs version) 17t. Austin Collie (7) (I did include Gunga Din's list.) 19. Santana Moss (4) 20. Steve Johnson (2) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted August 26, 2011 And I used a weighted formula as well to get a slightly different list. 20 points for first, 17 for second, 14 for third, 11, 9, 7, 5, 3, 2, and 1 point for tenth. 1. Andre Johnson (424) 2. Larry Fitzgerald (392) 3. Calvin Johnson (334) 4. Roddy White (236) 5. Greg Jennings (184) 6. Reggie Wayne (165) 7. Mike Wallace (76) 8. Dwayne Bowe (53) 9. Hakeem Nicks (49) 10. Santonio Holmes (21) --- 11. Brandon Lloyd (18) 12. DeSean Jackson (17) 13. Vincent Jackson (16) 14. Marques Colston (14) 15. Miles Austin (13) 16. Austin Collie (11) 17. Brandon Marshall (10) 18. Mike Williams (8) 19. Santana Moss (4) 20. Steve Johnson (2) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunga Din 18 Posted August 26, 2011 Razorstar both of your compiled lists seem like a fair assessment of the votes. I think much of the criticism I received was because I was considered a radical newbie who didn't fight for his opinion the way others would have. I've been a member a long time. I just don't argue a lot, you'll notice my low posting numbers. Once I post, I get on with my life, instead of hanging on the edge of my chair, barbs at the ready. Since my thought processes used to arrive at my list varied so much from others, how could I possibly explain so they could understand. Statistics don't always tell the whole story. Austin collie had 6 games before his first concussion last year. Along with two more in the other three games he played. In one game he was only involved in the play he was hurt in. As I said Fitz still needs someone to reliably get him the ball. Insults are something people use to look smart when they are confused. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westbrookforsix 28 Posted August 26, 2011 Ugh. I have no idea how DeSean Jackson gets on these lists. All 3 of the other BEAST teams have a WR who's better than D-Jack Jackson isn't even the best WR on his team. Nobody put Maclin on their list, and I must have seen a dozen DeSean nominations. This is Mac's 3rd year, and I think he's going to steal DeSean's spot on just about everyone's list. 2009- 15 games, 13 starts, 56 receptions, 773 yards, 4 TD's... not bad for a rookie 2010- 16 games, 16 starts, 70 receptions, 964 yards, 10 TD's... not bad for a sophomore And I'm sure his stats would be even better without DeSean's 1,056 yards on the other side of the field. But I'm sure he's just happy sharing as long as they win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BwareDWare94 723 Posted August 26, 2011 Razorstar both of your compiled lists seem like a fair assessment of the votes. I think much of the criticism I received was because I was considered a radical newbie who didn't fight for his opinion the way others would have. I've been a member a long time. I just don't argue a lot, you'll notice my low posting numbers. Once I post, I get on with my life, instead of hanging on the edge of my chair, barbs at the ready. Since my thought processes used to arrive at my list varied so much from others, how could I possibly explain so they could understand. Statistics don't always tell the whole story. Austin collie had 6 games before his first concussion last year. Along with two more in the other three games he played. In one game he was only involved in the play he was hurt in. As I said Fitz still needs someone to reliably get him the ball. Insults are something people use to look smart when they are confused. Would you fucking post normal? I'm not going to read a post that looks like a damn poem. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BwareDWare94 723 Posted August 26, 2011 Jackson isn't even the best WR on his team. Nobody put Maclin on their list, and I must have seen a dozen DeSean nominations. This is Mac's 3rd year, and I think he's going to steal DeSean's spot on just about everyone's list. 2009- 15 games, 13 starts, 56 receptions, 773 yards, 4 TD's... not bad for a rookie 2010- 16 games, 16 starts, 70 receptions, 964 yards, 10 TD's... not bad for a sophomore And I'm sure his stats would be even better without DeSean's 1,056 yards on the other side of the field. But I'm sure he's just happy sharing as long as they win. This is true, but DJack will be better this year because of Maclins bout with illness. He'll have a fallout for this year, but by next he'll be back to form. I certainly believe that, as of right now, DJack is only the 5th best WR in the division (behind Moss, Nicks, Austin, and Maclin). By the end of this coming year, I might be willing to put Dez Bryant and Mario Manninghamp ahead of Jackson, too. Also, I'm excited to see what this Victor Cruz can do. Jackson is held back by his frame and concussion history. They can't afford to run him through the middle very often. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GA_Eagle 595 Posted August 26, 2011 Would you fucking post normal? I'm not going to read a post that looks like a damn poem. I think its kinda nice. Like reading a much less poetic Leaves of Grass. You know, like the football post Whitman may have written... only a far less talented Whitman. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunga Din 18 Posted August 26, 2011 Would you fucking post normal? I'm not going to read a post that looks like a damn poem. For me this is normal. I post on several sites, each with it's own format restrictions. As far as looking like a poem, the thought never crossed my mind. I've never read much poetry, and none on the internet. I came here to glean the expert knowledge here, not to pontificate my radical opinions. Although the info I gather here is used in my reasoning process. So if it looks like a poem, feel free to ignore it. It will contain nothing illuminating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westbrookforsix 28 Posted August 26, 2011 This is true, but DJack will be better this year because of Maclins bout with illness. He'll have a fallout for this year, but by next he'll be back to form. I certainly believe that, as of right now, DJack is only the 5th best WR in the division (behind Moss, Nicks, Austin, and Maclin). By the end of this coming year, I might be willing to put Dez Bryant and Mario Manninghamp ahead of Jackson, too. Also, I'm excited to see what this Victor Cruz can do. Jackson is held back by his frame and concussion history. They can't afford to run him through the middle very often. Nobody knows that. Nobody even knows what he had, he just had mono "like" symptoms. It is possible he went to his father all the way out in Missouri to cover something up but I believe he will be fine, and if he doesn't improve his performance from last year, I think he'll at least match it. And the poetry posting is tolerable, but really annoying for my eyes to bounce back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. I'd rather just read a long line. I get the dramatic effect he's going for, but it's just weird. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Turry 755 Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) Razorstar both of your compiled lists seem like a fair assessment of the votes. I think much of the criticism I received was because I was considered a radical newbie who didn't fight for his opinion the way others would have. I've been a member a long time. I just don't argue a lot, you'll notice my low posting numbers. Once I post, I get on with my life, instead of hanging on the edge of my chair, barbs at the ready. Since my thought processes used to arrive at my list varied so much from others, how could I possibly explain so they could understand. Statistics don't always tell the whole story. Austin collie had 6 games before his first concussion last year. Along with two more in the other three games he played. In one game he was only involved in the play he was hurt in. As I said Fitz still needs someone to reliably get him the ball. Insults are something people use to look smart when they are confused. Much of the criticism you got was not because your a "newbie" we welcome newbs you got that criticism because you said something extremely stupid. Collie is nothing but a slot receiver, anybody would be effective in the slot when they have Dallas Clark and Reggie Wayne (The Best WR on the Colts) not to mention Peyton Manning throwing him the ball. Collie will never play on the outside. Really cause he has been doing damm well with any Qb he has had. 103 Catches 1409 Yards and 10 TDs in 05 with Josh McCown as the QB that's pretty crazy. In 06 and 07 with the revolving door at Qb with Leinart and Warner he still puts up Insane numbers. In 07 he had 100 Catches 1409 yards and 10 TDS. For the past 3 years he averaged over 90 catches and over 1000 yards and that's with the most god awful Qb group ever with DA, Max Hall and John Skeleton. Fitz does not need anybody reliable to get him the ball all he does is make plays after plays no matter who is playing QB. Collie does not belong in a top ten at all. Also having him over Greg Jennings is Lol worthy. Edited August 26, 2011 by monstersofthemidway 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glanvilles Grits 142 Posted August 27, 2011 I don't think fitz needs a good qb. But I do think his stats are slightly elevated because of the fact that they practically spoon feed him the ball in Arizona. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 442 Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) I'd have to disagree. Fitz has great route running and hands, that's why they throw the ball his way. I wouldn't consider it "spoon feeding" I would just consider him such a dominant player it's hard to not throw his way. If he actually had a reliable QB he'd be having 1400+ yards and 12+ TD seasons almost every year. His stats aren't elevated imo, the last 2 seasons don't represent his true dominance. Edited August 27, 2011 by Shotgun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunga Din 18 Posted August 27, 2011 I'd have to disagree. Fitz has great route running and hands, that's why they throw the ball his way. I wouldn't consider it "spoon feeding" I would just consider him such a dominant player it's hard to not throw his way. If he actually had a reliable QB he'd be having 1400+ yards and 12+ TD seasons almost every year. His stats aren't elevated imo, the last 2 seasons don't represent his true dominance. Now I will agree Fitz would be much better statistically and performance wise, if they didn't feel the QB had to spoon feed him. The defenses pick up on that attitude. With a QB like Manning, or Brees where would he be today. He is great but not as great as he should be. I think I misread this thread, I thought it was predictive in nature, not solely a historical analysis thread. Whether my guess is as good as yours will be answered this year, not last year. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Turry 755 Posted August 27, 2011 Now I will agree Fitz would be much better statistically and performance wise, if they didn't feel the QB had to spoon feed him. The defenses pick up on that attitude. With a QB like Manning, or Brees where would he be today. He is great but not as great as he should be. I think I misread this thread, I thought it was predictive in nature, not solely a historical analysis thread. Whether my guess is as good as yours will be answered this year, not last year. It's not spoon feeding him the ball if the guy dominates every corner that tries to cover him. I couldn't help but notice you ignoring my post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunga Din 18 Posted August 27, 2011 It's not spoon feeding him the ball if the guy dominates every corner that tries to cover him. I couldn't help but notice you ignoring my post. I'm sorry but with several identical posts I usually answer one or none. If I knew you were sensitive to responses in a general nature I would have reverted to my non-responsive mode. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SteelersNation36 128 Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) I'm sorry but with several identical posts I usually answer one or none. If I knew you were sensitive to responses in a general nature I would have reverted to my non-responsive mode. You quoted HIS post regarding it NOT being spoon feeding but went on to agree about it being spoon feeding, sense it makes none. Edited August 27, 2011 by SteelersNation36 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunga Din 18 Posted August 27, 2011 You quoted HIS post regarding it NOT being spoon feeding but went on to agree about it being spoon feeding, sense it makes none. I quoted his noticing I had ignored him. The rest of the outraged gibberish wasn't pertinent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Turry 755 Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) I'm sorry but with several identical posts I usually answer one or none. If I knew you were sensitive to responses in a general nature I would have reverted to my non-responsive mode. Sensitive ? I'm not I just found it funny how you backed off from an argument or did not respond to a post that question your top ten. Edited August 27, 2011 by monstersofthemidway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeyDay Posted August 28, 2011 Desean is def in my top ten bcuz hes a playmaker. Simple. He made so many damn plays last yr not even funny. I dont get the hate for him. Its always the same argument towards super fast players. CJ , DK, Steve Smith got it at one point in his career. Everyone likes big players and if ur small ur noit good or elite. His playmaking ability alone makes him top 10. I dont get it but id be glad to take him on my team and beast anyday.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunga Din 18 Posted August 28, 2011 Sensitive ? I'm not I just found it funny how you backed off from an argument or did not respond to a post that question your top ten. I don't argue. I come here to gather information from those that spend many more hours in statistical analysis than I have available. It appeared I was getting a very narrow opinion. I expressed mine. I got lots of descent but little useful information. My fantasy draft begins in less than two hours. So I have all the expert opinion I'll be getting here this year. I just wish the response had centered more on your football reasoning than your opinion of my character. Thank you. Gunga Din Share this post Link to post Share on other sites