Agree/Disagree with the following...

[SteVo+ 3,702]

Great defense (and great special teams) can get you to the playoffs, but to win in the playoffs, and to win a Super Bowl, you need an offense that can generate points when you need it, as evidenced by San Francisco's loss today despite a stellar performance from their defense.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Great defense (and great special teams) can get you to the playoffs, but to win in the playoffs, and to win a Super Bowl, you need an offense that can generate points when you need it, as evidenced by San Francisco's loss today despite a stellar performance from their defense.

 

Psh.

 

12 minutes less of ToP, and 1-13 on 3rd Down for the Niners. But Alex Smith and San Fran hung with the Giants point for point, yard for yard. Even when the Giants won the game, they didn't actually have to move the ball at all. They were in FG range when they took possession.

 

I don't see how inheriting the ball in FG range in OT proves that you need an offense.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Favre4Ever

[Milla4Prez63 678]

You don't need one specific thing to win a Super Bowl, it is about playing your best ball as a team in January. The 00 Ravens and 02 Bucs won Super Bowls with amazing defense and mediocre to bad offenses, yet you have the Patriots winning with a great offfense and bad defense. There is no one way of winning a Super Bowl, you just find what works for you and run with it.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Lol? It's not like the Giants had a great offensive showing, either.

 

You don't need one specific thing to win a Super Bowl, it is about playing your best ball as a team in January. The 00 Ravens and 02 Bucs won Super Bowls with amazing defense and mediocre to bad offenses, yet you have the Patriots winning with a great offfense and bad defense. There is no one way of winning a Super Bowl, you just find what works for you and run with it.

 

/end thread.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Thanatos19

[SteVo+ 3,702]

1-13 on 3rd Down for the Niners.

 

Seems like a pretty big strike against the offense to me.

 

The 00 Ravens and 02 Bucs won Super Bowls with amazing defense and mediocre to bad offenses, yet you have the Patriots winning with a great offfense and bad defense.

 

Oh c'mon, the NFL has changed so much since 2002. The days of quarterbacks like Trent Dilfer winning the Super Bowl are over. Super Bowl winning QBs since 2002:

 

Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Ben Roethlisberger

Peyton Manning

Eli Manning

Ben Roethlisberger

Drew Brees

Aaron Rodgers

Eli Manning or Tom Brady

[Guest Phailadelphia]

I'm inclined to agree with SteVo mainly because I don't plan on contradicting things I've been saying for a couple of years now: You need at least an above average QB to win a title these days. Elite defenses won't get it done anymore.

[BC 331]

Ya gotta score more points than the other team.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Seems like a pretty big strike against the offense to me.

 

No... Because the offense that 1 - 13 on 3rd downs, and also had the ball a quarter less put up the same yards and same points as the offense that won the game. And the offense that won the game didn't actually have to move the ball to score the game winning points.

 

Turnovers, discipline, fundamentals.

[badgers 380]

Yeah I mean you can't rely on your defense to score points for you.

 

It's all about finding a balance that your team can work with. You can't overload one side of the ball and come away victorious in the playoffs. Coaches that are consistently there will know how to exploit one sided teams.

 

I don't think you need an above average QB to win games..but he needs to be able to be at least average when it matters most. Show up in the playoffs and stuff. Like Roethlisberger before he became really good. He was average until 2 years ago, but he had 2 super bowl wins.

[Pwillie52 79]

10 points off of muffed punts in our red zone.... 10 of 20 points? That's not to great of offense for the Giants IMO. The niners offense scored as many as the Giants did without their defense forcing any turnovers. The Niners had way less time of possession, Eli threw twice as many times as Alex did and only had a little over 100 yards more passing? I'm sorry, but the Niners special teams won that game for the Giants.

 

Yeah they were 1/13 on third down conversion, and if they would have had a better conversion rate they would have had a better chance at scoring, but the Niners proved (IMO) that you can do it without an "offense." Which I dont think the Niners offense is to bad personally. Yeah they are low scoring, but they do what it takes to win.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Pwillie52

[RazorStar 4,025]

It's all about playing to your strengths and not making mistakes. When you turn the ball over you give the game away. When you don't execute on routine plays (Catch in the hands, 30 yard field goals) you give the game away. Sure both teams will make mistakes but if you don't make one, you'll win every time. (Ok, maybe 98% of the time).

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

The 49ers handed the Giants the game on a silver platter.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

It's all about playing to your strengths and not making mistakes. When you turn the ball over you give the game away. When you don't execute on routine plays (Catch in the hands, 30 yard field goals) you give the game away. Sure both teams will make mistakes but if you don't make one, you'll win every time. (Ok, maybe 98% of the time).

 

Exactly. It's all the little things... All the little things that every single NFL team is expected to do that get you either wins or loses in this league. Catching the ball, securing the ball, tackling, gap integrity, etc etc.

 

You perfect yourselves in those areas and other basic areas and you are going to win a lot of games in this league.

[Shotgun 442]

Seems like a pretty big strike against the offense to me.

 

 

 

Oh c'mon, the NFL has changed so much since 2002. The days of quarterbacks like Trent Dilfer winning the Super Bowl are over. Super Bowl winning QBs since 2002:

 

Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Ben Roethlisberger

Peyton Manning

Eli Manning

Ben Roethlisberger

Drew Brees

Aaron Rodgers

Eli Manning or Tom Brady

 

 

 

I think if anything the closeness of these 2 games show the days are not over, I think they've always been rare and just became rarer as rules have changed. Super Bowl winning teams have historically had good QB's/offenses (For their times at least). The problem is, in order to win as a defense you just can't have any big mistakes on offense or special teams. That's how the Bucs won it and that's how the Ravens won it. Suffocating defense, minimal mistakes.

 

The Ravens and 9ers had plenty of mistakes, which is the one and only reason they lost those games. A great offense with a great QB simply gives you an edge at winning very, very close games when the other team makes mistakes, which seems to be common. Both games were decided by 3 points and in both games the Ravens and 49ers were in a position to win both. If the 49ers don't make those 2 mistakes on special teams, and if the Ravens don't drop those passes or if the FG isn't missed they both very well could have won the game. It's difficult to say the days are over considering that.

 

 

To your original post I'll just say a good offense is more likely to get to and win you a Super Bowl, it isn't the only way.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

Yesterday just proved to me personally that it still takes all 52 men on a roster to win a game. Defense and Special Teams are just as, if not more important than your offense when everything you've played for is on the line. A lack of discipline by both the Ravens and 49ers was shown yesterday...and another crazy thing yesterday that I noticed was how much a TE can do for you. Gronkowski and Vernon Davis were key parts of both teams...just proves that you need to have a security blanket in your run game and TE's no matter how good...or bad your WR's are.

[baltimoreravens 19]

You don't need one specific thing to win a Super Bowl, it is about playing your best ball as a team in January. The 00 Ravens and 02 Bucs won Super Bowls with amazing defense and mediocre to bad offenses, yet you have the Patriots winning with a great offfense and bad defense. There is no one way of winning a Super Bowl, you just find what works for you and run with it.

 

 

There's no specific formula. Yes, the league is more pass happy now, but defenses can win championships. Inept offenses won't help win a superbowl, but you don't need a stellar offense to get the job done. Bottom line is balance in offense, defense and special teams (which was costliest to the Ravens and Niners yesterday) is most important.

[oochymp 2,393]

the 49ers put up 36 points against the Saints (who gave up 21.2 points per game in the regular season, good enough for 13th in the league) to call them an offense that can't score points when they need to ignores the very good defensive game the Giants played yesterday

[KiLaSix9+ 398]

Ya gotta score more points than the other team.

 

Brilliant.

[BC 331]

Just felt like a very derpish topic to me

 

Yes the teams with the great defenses have the upper hand in sustaining win streaks and consistency leading into the playoffs. And then the blatantly obvious disclaimer, on top of that, you need to "generate points when you need them." I think the lesson we learned from the Harbaugh losses this week, if your team is defensively stacked and your offense pound-the-rock oriented, you need to have fundamentally sound and mistake free football when you are handling it on offense and special teams.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Just felt like a very derpish topic to me

 

Yes the teams with the great defenses have the upper hand in sustaining win streaks and consistency leading into the playoffs. And then the blatantly obvious disclaimer, on top of that, you need to "generate points when you need them." I think the lesson we learned from the Harbaugh losses this week, if your team is defensively stacked and your offense pound-the-rock oriented, you need to have fundamentally sound and mistake free football when you are handling it on offense and special teams.

 

Exactly. The Niners as a team are not built to overcome two turnovers inside the redzone unless they also force turnovers inside the other redzone.

[BigBen07 285]

You don't need one specific thing to win a Super Bowl, it is about playing your best ball as a team in January. The 00 Ravens and 02 Bucs won Super Bowls with amazing defense and mediocre to bad offenses, yet you have the Patriots winning with a great offfense and bad defense. There is no one way of winning a Super Bowl, you just find what works for you and run with it.

 

Well said.

[BC 331]

Seems like a pretty big strike against the offense to me.

 

 

 

Oh c'mon, the NFL has changed so much since 2002. The days of quarterbacks like Trent Dilfer winning the Super Bowl are over. Super Bowl winning QBs since 2002:

 

Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Ben Roethlisberger

Peyton Manning

Eli Manning

Ben Roethlisberger

Drew Brees

Aaron Rodgers

Eli Manning or Tom Brady

 

I don't disagree here but I do want to point out that for the most part these quarterbacks weren't by any means gunslinging or playing in pass-happy offenses. The Tom Brady who won his superbowls played in the Seymour-Harrisson-Bruschi era and Belichick ran a lot of screens and dink-and-dunk offenses back then. The Patriots evolved into a gunslinging offense somewhere between 2006-2007. The year Indy won it they shifted their style a bit as well. The three most recent superbowl winners also had A LOT of defensive help, with turnovers as well as a defensive touchdown in each of the last three SBs.

 

Aaron Rodgers probably had one of the most impressive games as a SB winning QB, yet the defense was as clutch as he was.

 

Overall, I still feel that in most cases, the quarterback of a championship winning team is one who will not lose you the game as much as win you the game.

Edited January 24, 2012 by BC

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

Ya gotta score more points than the other team.

 

I'm sorry..what?

 

Is this some new fucking rule that dumbass Goodell put in?

 

I say we hang him.

 

[Thanatos 2,847]

Just to add to BC's post: The year Peyton's team won the Superbowl he threw for three TD passes in four games and had a QB rating over those four games of 70.6. Not exactly a stellar performance.

 

The team that plays together the best, with all facets clicking, are going to have the best shot of winning the SB.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Thanatos19

[NaTaS+ 958]

Seems like a pretty big strike against the offense to me.

 

 

 

Oh c'mon, the NFL has changed so much since 2002. The days of quarterbacks like Trent Dilfer winning the Super Bowl are over. Super Bowl winning QBs since 2002:

 

Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Ben Roethlisberger

 

 

I'm going to stop you right there with Big Ben's first Super Bowl appearance which was arguably the worst of all time (nine of 21 passes for 123 yards and two interceptions; passer rating was 22.6 was the lowest in Super Bowl history by a winning quarterback). The Steeler defense and yellow flags won that game.

 

The rest, yes - a good franchise QB is needed to win in the NFL. A dash of luck and a good match-up against your opponent is always helpful as well.