Obama Affirms Support for Same-Sex Marriage

[BucD+ 648]

I don't choose to be Attracted to women.

 

I don't choose to be sexually aroused when being intimate with my wife.

 

I just am.

 

I really am not understanding this point of view/opinion of "choice."

 

I'm very respectful to other's opinions. Just trying to understand it better I suppose.

[NaTaS+ 958]

I don't choose to be Attracted to women.

 

I don't choose to be sexually aroused when being intimate with my wife.

 

I just am.

 

I really am not understanding this point of view/opinion of "choice."

 

I'm very respectful to other's opinions. Just trying to understand it better I suppose.

 

It is my assertion that there is no choice, you are or aren't. There are biological factors that rely on genetic factors or influences that determine your sexual preference.

 

Thantos is technically correct that there are no scientific studies that conclusively demonstrate that being straight or homosexual is a choice. The studies I posted above are about as good as it gets.

 

Now, science is just now really starting to probe the whole gay gene thing. Such as how does evolution an homosexuals work? Is it population control (science so far says no)? Is it used to increase offspring of siblings? (Evidence to support this). It's an interesting conversation. I just didnt appreciate Thantos' take on it initially, the way he jumped in an tried to put words in my mouth. I'm cool now, percs tend to make me pissy at times .

[GA_Eagle 595]

There is science stating that environment is a factor, similar to twin studies when dealing with schizophrenia. For instance, not that a child can choose this but, it has been shown that second (and subsequent) sons have a greater rate of homosexuality than first born sons, as if a womb that was previously occupied by another male or some other unknown factor relating to second born sons has somehow shaped them before they are even born.

[Thanatos 2,847]

It is my assertion that there is no choice, you are or aren't. There are biological factors that rely on genetic factors or influences that determine your sexual preference.

 

Thantos is technically correct that there are no scientific studies that conclusively demonstrate that being straight or homosexual is a choice. The studies I posted above are about as good as it gets.

 

Now, science is just now really starting to probe the whole gay gene thing. Such as how does evolution an homosexuals work? Is it population control (science so far says no)? Is it used to increase offspring of siblings? (Evidence to support this). It's an interesting conversation. I just didnt appreciate Thantos' take on it initially, the way he jumped in an tried to put words in my mouth. I'm cool now, percs tend to make me pissy at times .

 

To be clear, I do not have a rock-solid position on this issue.

 

I said in a differing thread that this is the hardest issue for me.

 

As far as not thinking its a choice: the vast majority of people are so heavily predisposed towards heterosexuality, (upwards of 85%, if my numbers are correct), that nearly all of them would say they have no choice in the matter.

 

There is a small minority of people that are so heavily predisposed towards homosexuality that they would say the same.

 

There is a larger minority of people that are in-between those two positions, and like both sexes equally, or like one more than the other, but don't completely rule out the other sex.

[SteVo+ 3,702]

Since this is turning into one of the greatest debate threads on TGP, I'll try to jump in a little bit...

 

I also don't believe homosexuality is a choice. Are some of us born homosexuals? No. Are we born die-hard sports fans? Are we born drug-addicts? Are we born leaders? Are we born lazy bums? No. We are born babies, and we become who we become throughout the course of our lives. And a lot of it, I'm sure, has to do with our upbringing.

 

As for President Obama's stance on the issue, I don't get why anybody is making a big deal over it. Later in the interview Obama said he believes the right to determine whether same-sex marriage is legal should be left to the states, and I gotta say I earned a small amount of respect from the President for that one. States rights ftw.

[BucD+ 648]

Eh, I guess I just don't agree or understand how anyone can think that being sexually attracted to the opposite sex or same sex is or can be a choice.

 

Just chalking another one up under the "Agree to Disagree" column. Heh

 

But as I said before, I respect others opinions (especially with subjects such as this) and it's great to see such civil conversation in such a somewhat controversial subject such as this one. It's ok to have different opinions etc.

 

I would have chimed in more in this thread but my opinions have been posted, for the most part, already. A "+" here and there, I felt was sufficient enough.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

So, Dmac.. Do you still live by the Old Testament then?

 

Do I still live by the Mosaic laws given to Israel in the old testament in terms of rituals and customs?

 

No. But that's because Jesus and his disciples made it clear that with his death on the cross and the New Covenant that living by those laws are no longer required of us (Eph. 2:15, Rom. 10:4, Gal. 3:23-25). The mosaic (civic) law were meant for leading the people of Israel, whereas the New Covenant is not centered on one nation.

 

But do I still follow the old testament as it relates my spirituality and what is considered a sin or God's plan? Absolutely --or I at least try as I humanly can. As should other Christians, according to Jesus and his disciples (matt 5:18).

 

I think it's also important to mention that I am not a Catholic, and that I use the the NKJ translation of the Bible.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

As for President Obama's stance on the issue, I don't get why anybody is making a big deal over it. Later in the interview Obama said he believes the right to determine whether same-sex marriage is legal should be left to the states, and I gotta say I earned a small amount of respect from the President for that one. States rights ftw.

 

I think the bigger issue that most Christians have with this, or at least any that I know personally from the way my Pastor and Co-Pastor were harping about this yesterday is the fact that a Christian is in support of something that goes completely against the Bible, and that Christian just so happens to be our president. Which is pretty much where I stand as well. lol.

Edited May 14, 2012 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[SteVo+ 3,702]

I think the bigger issue that most Christians have with this, or at least any that I know personally from the way my Pastor and Co-Pastor were harping about this yesterday is the fact that a Christian is in support of something that goes completely against the Bible. Which is pretty much where I stand as well. lol.

 

I can understand that. You have to realize that it's an election year, though, and Obama's top priority is to get re-elected.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I feel bad for your future wife Dmac... You can only have sex face to face. And blow jobs are considered to be of homosexual nature. That made me laugh... >_>

 

On a more serious note. At least we can all agree that no matter which version of the Bible you read, and no matter what you think about homosexuality or its origins.... God still loves all of his children. Gay or straight.

[BwareDWare94 723]

I'm just gonna come in here every couple of days and post this picture, because it pretty much sums it up:

 

Edited May 15, 2012 by BwareDWare94

[Thanatos 2,847]

If you're meaning that picture as serious debate material, it's incorrect.

 

Although I'm pretty sure you're not.

[BwareDWare94 723]

If you're meaning that picture as serious debate material, it's incorrect.

 

Although I'm pretty sure you're not.

 

Obviously, I'm not serious, but it still has a point. Fat is most certainly not genetic, and being gay is most certainly not a choice.

 

Fat is lack of effort (unless a glandular condition is involved). Fat is eating nasty greasy food and doing nothing to counter it. Fat is choice.

 

Gay is not. Why on earth would anyone choose to be ridiculed for the rest of their lives?

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I can understand that. You have to realize that it's an election year, though, and Obama's top priority is to get re-elected.

I mean, I guess this means one of two things.... Either he really has "evolved" personally on a subject that most Christians agree is a fundamentaly wrong thing to ever support...

 

Or he's putting on a front for votes and to make people feel better...

 

But I really don't think its the latter, because he probably was gonna get the majority of gay votes regardless of whether he came out on this subject. If this isn't a front, If you can't personally agree on a basic subject religiously which most -including your religious book- agree to be wrong, then maybe it isn't for you?

[JoseR21 4]

I don't see the big deal in letting gay people get married. Just let them, we allow them to defend us and do the things they do... If we allow them to defend us, we should also allow them to get married. It's about time.

[BwareDWare94 723]

I mean, I guess this means one of two things.... Either he really has "evolved" personally on a subject that most Christians agree is a fundamentaly wrong thing to ever support...

 

Or he's putting on a front for votes and to make people feel better...

 

But I really don't think its the latter, because he probably was gonna get the majority of gay votes regardless of whether he came out on this subject. If this isn't a front, If you can't personally agree on a basic subject religiously which most -including your religious book- agree to be wrong, then maybe it isn't for you?

 

Even if it was a front, Conservatives put on a front just to get Christian votes. They don't actually care about social issues. As if they're going to get into the Oval Office and start working toward "making sure them queers can't get hitched"(in my best Rick Santorum voice). It's not really any different, per se, if this was a front by Obama.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

I mean, I guess this means one of two things.... Either he really has "evolved" personally on a subject that most Christians agree is a fundamentaly wrong thing to ever support...

 

Or he's putting on a front for votes and to make people feel better...

 

But I really don't think its the latter, because he probably was gonna get the majority of gay votes regardless of whether he came out on this subject. If this isn't a front, If you can't personally agree on a basic subject religiously which most -including your religious book- agree to be wrong, then maybe it isn't for you?

 

I think it came more as damage control for Biden's mouth than an evolving position or election year rhetoric. When your VP comes out with the statements he did you kinda have to back him up, especially after campaigning on LGBT equality then failing to deliver on it.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Obama was going to make the announcement whether Biden opened his mouth or not. It is most definitely political posturing for the elections (not that I blame him. Very common practice).

 

It just so happened that Biden forced his hand earlier than he (or his staff) wanted.

[KiLaSix9+ 398]

I didn't know you could neg a post you've already negged once. Sweet!

[Omerta+ 1,206]

To be honest who gives a shit. I am not saying I am a gay rights activist or what have you but, in the end gay people really do not effect how I live my life in any way other than taking up time the news could be using on the latest sports gold digger.

 

I honestly would not care if they get married because most of them are more than likable people who hold down regular jobs like anybody else, most pay taxes which is something that a lot if illegal immigrants do not ( a topic that no one likes touching either).

 

If my only complaint about someone is that they are gay than in the grand scheme of things I can let that go under a few provisos. First please no PDA the predominantly heterosexual population by and large do not want to see that shit, it is irritating even when straight people do it. Second quit with the flamboyant I am here and I am queer lifestyle. We get it. Your gay. Nobody really cares. I mean I am not saying that they can not show affection towards each other but I was scarred form when I went to cali to check out the surfing and two dudes were making out, I did not say anything nor do I think I ever would but that shit was fucking gross. That being said though I hate seeing straight people do that shit too, take him/her to the car and do that shit or public bathrooms (yeah I am classy like that) like normal people.

 

Also with that out of the way this government has become entirely too heavy handed in most of the policies they levy in terms of the nation as a whole. What is that phrase life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I could have swore that applied to everyone and we did not get to judge who that applied to as it is written.

 

A viewpoint I have recently adopted is this is not dissimilar to the legalization of the Mary Jane. Both are "wrong" in some manner or another ( coincidentally religious zealots are not really a fan of this either but believe in a talking burning bush...go figure) The government both knows they are out their and gaining popularity by the day and both are still illegal. That said both are drawing heavy support and are trying to get legislation passed saying it is OK to do the exact same thing that is happening anyway.

 

I am all for gay marriage, hey if you want to be gay knock yourself out I really could care less. Would I ever partake....NO! That being said I dont smoke pot either but I know plenty of people that do who are just a good of person as I am if not better. This is 2012 this rodeo is supposed to be ending soon anyway, fuck it just give it to them for fuck sake.