Choose your Head Coach and Coordinators

[blotsfan 2,112]

I think for the sake of interest, you should actually pick coordinators.

 

HC: Belichick. He's simply the best. He hasn't won in a while, but the Pats have been in position. I don't blame him for Eli making absurd plays.

 

OC: Pete Carmichael. I know Sean Payton has done a lot, but he's the playcaller on offense now, and the Saints offense is definitely a case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.

 

DC: Dick LeBeau. Incompetence against Denver notwithstanding, he's a big part of why the Steelers always have one of the best defenses in the NFL, not to mention him and Belichick working together would create some monster defenses.

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

HC: Hoodie

OC: Sean Payton

DC: Wade Phillips

[Milla4Prez63 678]

I thought about making Sean Payton the OC, but Tony Dungy knows how to drive defensive coordinators nuts, and to exploit holes in defenses.

 

No, he doesn't. He is a defensive minded HC. He played defense and got a HC gig because of his work as DC with the Vikings. Plus, if you think he is so smart with his offenses, look at his offenses while being HC of the Bucs. Consistently awful. Sure, we had some shitty QBs but his loyalty to shitty players and coaches on offense got him fired. Peyton Manning will make anyone look genius, hell he went 14-2 and got to the Super Bowl with Jim fuckin' Caldwell as HC.

[housemd 338]

HC: Mike Tomlin

OC: Sean Payton

DC: Dick LeBeau

[AL_Royalty 489]

Yeah that is all fine and good an all except that the Giants during that time had Bill Parcells who would have succeeded with or without Belichik and that really cant be argued considering he has done it everywhere he has gone.

 

AS a HC honestly he sucked before he came to NE and we will never know if he could have turned the Browns around or not, but what we do know is the success he has had with Brady there. Not saying he needs him or vice versa but those are just the facts.

 

On his own Belichik has not done much, but with Parcells and Brady he has been wildly successful. Not saying it has been because of Brady but as I mentioned he was probably successful because of Parcells because well everybody who worked with him was for the most part. The Brady Belichik thing we will never know because Brady wont play for another team. Now if he retires and BB struggles we have a pretty good idea what kind of HC he is.

Really? He's won Super Bowls everywhere else he went? I can't find any proof to back that up.

 

Coordinators are a HUGE part of the very fabric of every winning organization. Bill had more success when he had Weis running the offense that Brady had in his championship winning years and Romeo running the defense that played a big part in winning said Super Bowl rings.

 

Also, do you think that Parcells' assistants were successful because they were under Parcells, or was it that Parcells was so successful because he had nothing but studs running his team? I'm sure the two concepts have some truth to them, but most likely Parcells hired them in the first place because—and call me crazy for thinking this way—THEY ARE EXTREMELY GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO?

 

There's no way that Belichik can be discredited for the job he's done with the Patriots, which was one of the leagues whipping boys for SOOOO many years. Parcells took them to the Super Bowl in the '90s, but he couldn't get it done. Belichik came in, benched Parcells' QB, and WON 3 Super Bowls with a dynamite staff of his own.

 

Just saying.

 

Source: TRUTHpalace.com

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Really? He's won Super Bowls everywhere else he went? I can't find any proof to back that up.

 

Coordinators are a HUGE part of the very fabric of every winning organization. Bill had more success when he had Weis running the offense that Brady had in his championship winning years and Romeo running the defense that played a big part in winning said Super Bowl rings.

 

Also, do you think that Parcells' assistants were successful because they were under Parcells, or was it that Parcells was so successful because he had nothing but studs running his team? I'm sure the two concepts have some truth to them, but most likely Parcells hired them in the first place because—and call me crazy for thinking this way—THEY ARE EXTREMELY GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO?

 

There's no way that Belichik can be discredited for the job he's done with the Patriots, which was one of the leagues whipping boys for SOOOO many years. Parcells took them to the Super Bowl in the '90s, but he couldn't get it done. Belichik came in, benched Parcells' QB, and WON 3 Super Bowls with a dynamite staff of his own.

 

Just saying.

 

Source: TRUTHpalace.com

 

Wow dude, just wow. So you have to win SB's to be successful ? I said he would have been successful anywhere he went and if you look at every team he went to he turned them around and ALL made the playoffs under him when they were dog shit franchises.

 

And I am appalled at how little homework you have done on the situation. Do you have nay guess who the defensive coordinator was for the Giants squad before it was turned over to Belichik ? Yup it was Parcells so that defense was dominant before BB got there and it was Parcells defense. So that said even if you go with the coordinator fabric rant it is still moot since it was the same defense that Parcells instilled in it.

 

Your next paragraph is moot since I told you in the above that he was a successful defensive guy before BB even got there. SO yeah it was Bill Parcells who did it the onlyy one you could give credit to as far innovation was the OC which was not hard considering their RB. I am not calling you crazy I am telling you that either you had no idea of what I just told you and walked into this blind or you do not understand a coaching tree because nobody makes a statement like that from a lucid thought except for when they dont have all the info.

 

Then you saying Bledsoe was benched, but uhhhh no he wasnt. Again you dont have all the facts or you just dont know how to make a debate worth it. He was injured and BB said he was going to stick with the hot hand, which is what he said in a press conference after the injury.

 

Again I am disappointed in how little research you did and coming into a debate woefully unprepared.

 

I didnt discredit BB I am just saying he was a beneficiary of Parcells and trying to argue that is ridiculous just ask the jets what they were willing to do to make sure Parcells was running the show even if BB had to be their front man....

 

Nice try though...... :grinno:

[SteVo+ 3,702]

All you people cheating and picking Sean Payton for offensive coordinator. He's a head coach, stupids.

 

HC: Bill Belichick

OC: Rob Chudzinski

DC: Wade Phillips

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Oh and before you make some half attempt that BB did change the defense just to let you know some more info. It is a fact that when Parcells came back from his land development venture Ray Perkins the HC gave him the job of defensive coordinator with the giants allowing Parcells to change the defense into 3-4 instead of 4-3. so it is not like BB got there and reinvented the damn wheel. Take a stab at what defense at what BB's defense is ?

 

Also it is worth noting that do you want to take a guess at who was on the staff BEFORE Parcells was named DC ???? If he was the obvious genius behind their success how come nobody realized it ???

Edited June 11, 2012 by Ngata_Chance

[AL_Royalty 489]

Wow dude, just wow. So you have to win SB's to be successful ? I said he would have been successful anywhere he went and if you look at every team he went to he turned them around and ALL made the playoffs under him when they were dog shit franchises...

 

...Then you saying Bledsoe was benched, but uhhhh no he wasnt. Again you dont have all the facts or you just dont know how to make a debate worth it. He was injured and BB said he was going to stick with the hot hand, which is what he said in a press conference after the injury...

 

...Again I am disappointed in how little research you did and coming into a debate woefully unprepared...

 

I didnt discredit BB...

Yeah, Parcells took all of his teams to the playoffs. That's true, but yeah, success in the NFL is judged by championships, or at least playoff wins. Do you know how many of Parcell's 11 post-Giants seasons he won playoff games in? 2. He won three playoff games in 11 years. One with the Jets and two with the Pats. Getting to the playoffs is good, but winning playoff games is better.

 

Also, Herm Edwards won twice as many playoff games as Parcells with the Jets in 2 more appearances, and the Cowboys were the Cowboys. They were having one horrible stretch right before he got there, but to call them a dog shit franchise is ludicrous, and they also got better after he left. The Pats were horrible before Parcells took them to the SB—and then Belichik won 3 there. To take a page out of your book, I'm not saying that Parcells is the reason that those teams underachieved, but those are the facts.

 

As for Bledsoe, if he wasn't healthy enough to come back in Brady's first Super Bowl season, I stand corrected. However, since he WAS healthy enough to return to take his job back but lost it to injury, he was BENCHED as a healthy scratch. You can dress it up with all the fancy press conference quotes that you want to, but the fact is—and you seem to love facts—he was ultimately benched.

 

I'm not denying that Belichik benefited from Parcells. I'm just simply stating the fact that Parcells never won a SB without Belichik (and Crennel for that matter). We'll never know if Parcels would have dominated without Belichik... Oh, wait, we do know. He didn't.

 

In the words of the immortal Joe Friday, "Just the facts."

 

Source: TRUTHPALACE.com

[NaTaS+ 958]

All you people cheating and picking Sean Payton for offensive coordinator. He's a head coach, stupids.

 

HC: Bill Belichick

OC: Rob Chudzinski

DC: Wade Phillips

 

Doesnt matter if he's an HC or not right now. I MAKE THE RULES!

Edited June 13, 2012 by NaTaS

[Paladin 3]

Bill Parcells as HC

Don Coryell as OC

Bill Belichick as DC

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Yeah, Parcells took all of his teams to the playoffs. That's true, but yeah, success in the NFL is judged by championships, or at least playoff wins. Do you know how many of Parcell's 11 post-Giants seasons he won playoff games in? 2. He won three playoff games in 11 years. One with the Jets and two with the Pats. Getting to the playoffs is good, but winning playoff games is better.

 

Also, Herm Edwards won twice as many playoff games as Parcells with the Jets in 2 more appearances, and the Cowboys were the Cowboys. They were having one horrible stretch right before he got there, but to call them a dog shit franchise is ludicrous, and they also got better after he left. The Pats were horrible before Parcells took them to the SB—and then Belichik won 3 there. To take a page out of your book, I'm not saying that Parcells is the reason that those teams underachieved, but those are the facts.

 

As for Bledsoe, if he wasn't healthy enough to come back in Brady's first Super Bowl season, I stand corrected. However, since he WAS healthy enough to return to take his job back but lost it to injury, he was BENCHED as a healthy scratch. You can dress it up with all the fancy press conference quotes that you want to, but the fact is—and you seem to love facts—he was ultimately benched.

 

I'm not denying that Belichik benefited from Parcells. I'm just simply stating the fact that Parcells never won a SB without Belichik (and Crennel for that matter). We'll never know if Parcels would have dominated without Belichik... Oh, wait, we do know. He didn't.

 

In the words of the immortal Joe Friday, "Just the facts."

 

Source: TRUTHPALACE.com

 

So Andy Reid is not a successful HC, what about Jeff Fisher, John Harbaugh, and the list goes on. Those guys have not won a SB therefore they are not successful coaches...Interesting concept. And in ant event Parcells won 2 as the HC (the guy calling the shots, you can dress that up how you want I guess)

 

So Bill Parcells creating that defense while BB was ST was still BB huh ? God people and their love affair with this guy is fuckin nuts. If he was so great how come he could not turn the browns around. I mean he is an all powerful football god right....We will never know what BB could do without Brady lol..See how easy that is. Make the excuse you want but Bill Parcells did something BB did not which is Win everywhere he was.

 

SO as to Bledsoe ignore what the HC of a team says and go with what you say...good plan since you were there.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Ngata_Chance

[AL_Royalty 489]

So Andy Reid is not a successful HC, what about Jeff Fisher, John Harbaugh, and the list goes on. Those guys have not won a SB therefore they are not successful coaches...Interesting concept. And in ant event Parcells won 2 as the HC (the guy calling the shots, you can dress that up how you want I guess)

 

So Bill Parcells creating that defense while BB was ST was still BB huh ? God people and their love affair with this guy is fuckin nuts. If he was so great how come he could not turn the browns around. I mean he is an all powerful football god right....We will never know what BB could do without Brady lol..See how easy that is. Make the excuse you want but Bill Parcells did something BB did not which is Win everywhere he was.

 

SO as to Bledsoe ignore what the HC of a team says and go with what you say...good plan since you were there.

You see, the fundamental difference is our arguments is that I'm not really saying anything bad about Parcells, where as you've basically called BB a bum. I never questioned Parcells' SB wins. I simply made a case for Belichik being a good coach that shouldn't be called overrated because you don't like him.

 

Reid, Harblah, Fisher: all pretty successful. If you want to talk about a wildly successful head coach though, what about Marty Schottenheimer? In 21 NFL seasons the guy had exactly TWO losing seasons. He made the playoffs 11 times in 13 seasons with the Browns and Chiefs, two of the NFL's most maligned franchises. Yet what is he known as? The guy who couldn't win the big game, so yeah, SB wins are synonymous with success.

 

As for your, "We will never know what BB could do without Brady lol," you've already said this. Where do you think I got such an asinine sentence about the two Bills?

 

As for the Browns, any idea when the last time they won a playoff game was? Would you like to guess who the coach of that team was? If you're going to give Parcells credit for taking all of his teams to the playoffs (mostly with 9-7 records) then give BB the same credit—Browns were 11-5, only time since 1986. So I guess BB DID win everywhere he went. Look at that.

 

And again on the Bledsoe thing? Seriously? You said he wasn't benched, then you gave me the reason for him being benched. It doesn't matter why he was benched. He was benched. Plain and simple.

Edited June 14, 2012 by B-isforBowe

[Turry 755]

Wow dude, just wow. So you have to win SB's to be successful ? I said he would have been successful anywhere he went and if you look at every team he went to he turned them around and ALL made the playoffs under him when they were dog shit franchises.

 

And I am appalled at how little homework you have done on the situation. Do you have nay guess who the defensive coordinator was for the Giants squad before it was turned over to Belichik ? Yup it was Parcells so that defense was dominant before BB got there and it was Parcells defense. So that said even if you go with the coordinator fabric rant it is still moot since it was the same defense that Parcells instilled in it.

 

Your next paragraph is moot since I told you in the above that he was a successful defensive guy before BB even got there. SO yeah it was Bill Parcells who did it the onlyy one you could give credit to as far innovation was the OC which was not hard considering their RB. I am not calling you crazy I am telling you that either you had no idea of what I just told you and walked into this blind or you do not understand a coaching tree because nobody makes a statement like that from a lucid thought except for when they dont have all the info.

 

Then you saying Bledsoe was benched, but uhhhh no he wasnt. Again you dont have all the facts or you just dont know how to make a debate worth it. He was injured and BB said he was going to stick with the hot hand, which is what he said in a press conference after the injury.

 

Again I am disappointed in how little research you did and coming into a debate woefully unprepared.

 

I didnt discredit BB I am just saying he was a beneficiary of Parcells and trying to argue that is ridiculous just ask the jets what they were willing to do to make sure Parcells was running the show even if BB had to be their front man....

 

Nice try though...... :grinno:

 

Bledsoe got benched. Ever since 96 he was on the decline and it got worse from 97 to 2000. He got injured and then got benched in favour for Brady.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Bledsoe got benched. Ever since 96 he was on the decline and it got worse from 97 to 2000. He got injured and then got benched in favour for Brady.

 

He was on the decline but he was the starter and got injured. When he was injured Brady started winning and BB said he was sticking with the hot hand. So I cant say he got benched he just got hurt and his backup played well enough to stay the starter. To me being benched is when you just sucking ass in a game and get yanked midway through or get demoted that week. Even if injury precipitates that I still think injury takes it.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

You see, the fundamental difference is our arguments is that I'm not really saying anything bad about Parcells, where as you've basically called BB a bum. I never questioned Parcells' SB wins. I simply made a case for Belichik being a good coach that shouldn't be called overrated because you don't like him.

 

Reid, Harblah, Fisher: all pretty successful. If you want to talk about a wildly successful head coach though, what about Marty Schottenheimer? In 21 NFL seasons the guy had exactly TWO losing seasons. He made the playoffs 11 times in 13 seasons with the Browns and Chiefs, two of the NFL's most maligned franchises. Yet what is he known as? The guy who couldn't win the big game, so yeah, SB wins are synonymous with success.

 

As for your, "We will never know what BB could do without Brady lol," you've already said this. Where do you think I got such an asinine sentence about the two Bills?

 

As for the Browns, any idea when the last time they won a playoff game was? Would you like to guess who the coach of that team was? If you're going to give Parcells credit for taking all of his teams to the playoffs (mostly with 7-9 records) then give BB the same credit—Browns were 11-5, only time since 1986. So I guess BB DID win everywhere he went. Look at that.

 

And again on the Bledsoe thing? Seriously? You said he wasn't benched, then you gave me the reason for him being benched. It doesn't matter why he was benched. He was benched. Plain and simple.

 

I have never said BB was a bad coach. And I did not bring up him being nothing without Brady. I am saying it cant hurt. And I dont understand the man crush what seems like everybody has on him.

 

As to the Parcells thing. BB legend in my opinion has succeded his actual ability. Not saying the guy is not a good coach, but people always give him what seems to be undue credit. For instance the draft. He could pick a 6th round guy in the 2nd and people would praise him for it. There are people who are waaaaay better than him in the draft. Honestly that is why teh defense sucks because he does not draft well. he is average. But him being BB gets him a lot of leeway.

 

This is my point of contention with him. to be totally honest that defense that the Giants had was all Parcells, he drafted them and he coached them and then he goes to HC and people are saying it was BB who made that defense. It just was not .

 

As to the benched thing that is a difference of opinion. I think if you go out because of injury and your backup gets hot does not mean that you were benched. I think this was similar to Warner/Bulger, he was getting old and was always on the injury report and Bulger got hot and Warner was cast out.

 

As for BB being a defensive genius his defense more often than not sucks. And yet people always find excuses for him. If he was looked at objectively you would see a great coach but he was not the innovator like Walsh, knoll, Lombardi, Coryell, etc...

 

As to the SB thing, I hate that. That is not the definition of success. Ed Reed does not have one, is he less of a safety because of that. Marino never won one, was he less of a QB ? People never look at it from the inverse. Being completely honest wiht my self two things I know about the Ravens SB is that Brian Billick is not an extraordinary coach if he is even a good one. And Trent Dilfer was a horrible QB but we still won it. So does that mean Dilfer is better than Marino ? It is a ridiculous argument.

 

and BB had it one time and left with a losing record.

 

And BB is overrated. To be honest I will take Tomlin over BB. I dont hate the guy I just wish people would stop making him to be the second coming in everything he does when he does the same thing other people with an all time great at QB. Shanahan was dominant with Elway and is not touted as arguably the greatest of all time. Maybe when this guy gets recognized for being a great coach and ONLY that I can swallow some more of the bullshit the media likes to spew, until then I will continue to think he is average at drafting, not as great a defensive mind as touted but excellent at the management of the game and awareness, but still an excellent coach.

[BradyFan81 404]

HC: Belichick

OC: Sean Payton

DC: Romeo Crennel

[BradyFan81 404]

I have never said BB was a bad coach. And I did not bring up him being nothing without Brady. I am saying it cant hurt. And I dont understand the man crush what seems like everybody has on him.

 

As to the Parcells thing. BB legend in my opinion has succeded his actual ability. Not saying the guy is not a good coach, but people always give him what seems to be undue credit. For instance the draft. He could pick a 6th round guy in the 2nd and people would praise him for it. There are people who are waaaaay better than him in the draft. Honestly that is why teh defense sucks because he does not draft well. he is average. But him being BB gets him a lot of leeway.

 

This is my point of contention with him. to be totally honest that defense that the Giants had was all Parcells, he drafted them and he coached them and then he goes to HC and people are saying it was BB who made that defense. It just was not .

 

As to the benched thing that is a difference of opinion. I think if you go out because of injury and your backup gets hot does not mean that you were benched. I think this was similar to Warner/Bulger, he was getting old and was always on the injury report and Bulger got hot and Warner was cast out.

 

As for BB being a defensive genius his defense more often than not sucks. And yet people always find excuses for him. If he was looked at objectively you would see a great coach but he was not the innovator like Walsh, knoll, Lombardi, Coryell, etc...

 

As to the SB thing, I hate that. That is not the definition of success. Ed Reed does not have one, is he less of a safety because of that. Marino never won one, was he less of a QB ? People never look at it from the inverse. Being completely honest wiht my self two things I know about the Ravens SB is that Brian Billick is not an extraordinary coach if he is even a good one. And Trent Dilfer was a horrible QB but we still won it. So does that mean Dilfer is better than Marino ? It is a ridiculous argument.

 

and BB had it one time and left with a losing record.

 

And BB is overrated. To be honest I will take Tomlin over BB. I dont hate the guy I just wish people would stop making him to be the second coming in everything he does when he does the same thing other people with an all time great at QB. Shanahan was dominant with Elway and is not touted as arguably the greatest of all time. Maybe when this guy gets recognized for being a great coach and ONLY that I can swallow some more of the bullshit the media likes to spew, until then I will continue to think he is average at drafting, not as great a defensive mind as touted but excellent at the management of the game and awareness, but still an excellent coach.

 

Most coaches don't draft or make FA signings, they have a GM to do it for them. BB is one of the few (maybe the only one) that does. It's important to differentiate between BB the GM and BB the head coach. As a GM I agree he is pretty average. But as a head coach? He's by far the best, no one is even close.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Most coaches don't draft or make FA signings, they have a GM to do it for them. BB is one of the few (maybe the only one) that does. It's important to differentiate between BB the GM and BB the head coach. As a GM I agree he is pretty average. But as a head coach? He's by far the best, no one is even close.

That is a little too far. Especially if we are talking ever. If we are talking the last decade and you think he is far and away than Mike Tomlin....I have some bad news.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

That is a little too far. Especially if we are talking ever. If we are talking the last decade and you think he is far and away than Mike Tomlin....I have some bad news.

 

What makes Tomlin better than Belichick? Not trying to hate on Tomlin, I love the dude, but he inherited a Super Bowl ready team with one of the best DCs of all time. I see no reason to say Tomlin is better than Belichick. I don't like Belichick, but the dude can coach. Three Super Bowls is incredibly hard to pull off and only a few people have done it.

[AL_Royalty 489]

And I am appalled at how little homework you have done on the situation.

 

I am not calling you crazy I am telling you that either you had no idea of what I just told you and walked into this blind or you do not understand a coaching tree because nobody makes a statement like that from a lucid thought except for when they dont have all the info.

 

Again I am disappointed in how little research you did and coming into a debate woefully unprepared.

 

Nice try though...... :grinno:

That's pretty much what got me all fired up. You basically called me either ignorant or an idiot, two things I'm sure are now clear to you that I am not. We just have a difference of opinion on some things. I can live with that.

 

Lombardi, Paul Brown, Chuck Noll, Jimmy Johnson... None of these guys went out there and won titles by themselves. It takes a village, especially in a sport with a 53 man roster and a stable of assistant coaches. I can't take away any credit from BB for winning with talent and getting help in the beginning. All great coaches do that. You can't win without a pool talented and capable individuals working together.

 

The guy has coached his team to 3 SB wins and a total of 5 appearances. It's nothing short of amazing. No coach that I can think of has ever done that.

 

All in all, I enjoyed the debating with you.

[BradyFan81 404]

That is a little too far. Especially if we are talking ever. If we are talking the last decade and you think he is far and away than Mike Tomlin....I have some bad news.

Sorry, just cause you hate him doesn't mean he's not the best in the game. He is. I'd love to see you make a case against him.

[Piggly Wiggly 960]

lol @ the Mike Tomlin hype. He's a solid coach, but like Milla said, he inherited a damn good team. Not to mention the Steelers are an extremely well-run organization. Safe to say he landed in a good situation.

 

Wouldn't have had the same success if he had to take over a dog shit team with a mediocre front office.

[Thanatos 2,847]

lol @ the Mike Tomlin hype. He's a solid coach, but like Milla said, he inherited a damn good team. Not to mention the Steelers are an extremely well-run organization. Safe to say he landed in a good situation.

 

Wouldn't have had the same success if he had to take over a dog shit team with a mediocre front office.

 

That's not fair to say.

 

We don't know if he would have had the same success if he had to take over a poor team.

 

But then, really, who would have the "same success" with a dog shit team and a mediocre front office?

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Sorry, just cause you hate him doesn't mean he's not the best in the game. He is. I'd love to see you make a case against him.

 

Again there is a difference between hating the man and thinking he walks on water. I do neither, I see him for what I think he is . A great coach. The myth ends there. He is not a good draft person, he is not an innovator, he is not some mystical defensive mastermind, and as much as you pats fan hate it he is not the best ever...YET. HE could be but some pats fans need to get off their high horses.

 

And you said no one is close. Tomlin is damn close, he wins one more SB and there is a valid argument for just as good as BB. BB is not by FAR the best, he may be the best but there are other who are damn close....and what about that coughlin guy ? I hear he is pretty good at winning SB's too.