How good (or bad) is Joe Flacco

[Dutch 874]

Rainman and Sean pretty much hit it on the money. Flacco had an awesome post season run. You can't ask more from your QB throwing for 11 TDs and 0 int's in the post season. He did everything he was suppose to do. He made plays all throughout his play off run series and made some great throws but nothing spectacular. His TD / int ratio is mindboggling but if you watched those TDs, all of them weren't amazing plays on his behalf. I saw Flacco make some great throws, easy throws to WIDE open WRs that burnt their opposition (Champ Bailey, Chris Culliver), blown coverages (Rahim Moore, Chris Culliver) and throws that were tossed up and the WR made an awesome play on the ball (Anquan Boldin); Don't get me wrong, nothing is wrong with giving your play making WR a chance to make a play but more lucky that the defenders were playing horrible defense and didn't contest the ball. Some of those passes could have been ints if the defender played half good defense but they were completed. He played flawless in his post season run and you can't take nothing away from the man. No doubt Flacco is a top 10 QB and deserves recognition for his efforts but just like Flacco may have moved up in some peoples ranks, his WRs need to move up as well because they BALLED their hearts out and made a lot of plays for their QB.

 

Is Flacco a top 10 QB? Yes

Is Flacco a top 5 QB? No

Is Flacco Elite? No. Show some of that post season magic in the regular season then we can talk.

Is Flacco better than Big Ben? Lol no. Just stop.

Does he deserved to get paid? Fuck yeah, he just won a superbowl.

20 million? No. 15-17 million seems about suitable but the Ravens organization can pay him however much they think he's worth to their franchise.

Edited February 7, 2013 by dutchff7

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

I'm not arguing durability here at all. Flacco hasn't missed a game; he's durable.

 

That being said, 20 more sacks is nowhere near "being hit about the same"... If he was sacked 20 more times, how many more hits do you think he took that weren't sacks? There is no denying that Ben has been pressured more than just about any QB in the league for a long time now. Furthermore, Ben is one of the hardest QBs, if not the hardest, to take down. Flacco doesn't absorb near the contact that Ben has to. No QB since 2006 has had to.

[Dutch 874]

That said Eli over Flacco is shall we say highly debatable. They are both in the conversation for the same thing. Epic playoff runs, although Flacco's was far more impressive. Not to mention defenses who were staunch at one point and time and are now fading quickly.

 

Not so sure about being far more impressive. Eli made some throws in the play offs that had you like ; insane throws. I didn't see those type of throws from Flacco. Boldin had me like

Edited February 7, 2013 by dutchff7

[Omerta+ 1,206]

I'm not arguing durability here at all. Flacco hasn't missed a game; he's durable.

 

That being said, 20 more sacks is nowhere near "being hit about the same"... If he was sacked 20 more times, how many more hits do you think he took that weren't sacks? There is no denying that Ben has been pressured more than just about any QB in the league for a long time now. Furthermore, Ben is one of the hardest QBs, if not the hardest, to take down. Flacco doesn't absorb near the contact that Ben has to. No QB since 2006 has had to.

 

I get what you are saying in the sense of the durability thing is not really an argument for either. I think 20 sacks over 5 years though is about the same. that is 4 sacks more a season. That is literally .25 sacks a game. And the hit thing yeah I get it but I just dont think there is that big of discrepancy personally. Now if it were 20 in 2 years or even 3 years then yeah. but I think at 5 it becomes a bit watered down. Flacco has only been in since 08 so I can really assume what those numbers would be so I cant go any further at that.

 

I think they are 1 and 2 in most sacked QB's in the past 5 seasons. I am just hoping Flacco does not hit that wall where he is injured all the time. I really think Ben may only have a few years let before its over, that however is not really a debate as nobody knows.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Ngata_Chance

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

These are guys I would think of being sacked a decent amount.

 

Rodgers has been sacked 202 times in 78 games. 2.59 times per game.

 

Flacco has been sacked 174 times in 80 games. 2.18 times per game.

 

Ben has been sacked 198 times 71 games. 2.79 times per game

 

Rivers has been sacked 167 times in 80 games. 2.09 times per game.

 

Cutler has been sacked 148 times in 56 games. 2.64 times per game. (However, this is only in Chi. Adding in that 5th year in Denver makes it 159 in 72 = 2.21 per)

 

Trying to think of others that have been around that long and might be getting sacked a ton... Maybe a Ryan Fitzpatrick or Mark Sanchez? Guys like Peyton, Brady, and Brees don't get hit...

 

Just for comparisons sake...

 

David Carr in Houston got sacked 249 times in 75 games started. 3.32 times per game.

 

Insane to think he only missed 5 games in 5 years taking that kind of beating.

[KiLaSix9+ 398]

I'd put Flacco somewhere between #8-15 as far as QBs in the league go. He will however be paid like a top 3 QB in the league this offseason.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

So definitively we have Rodgers, Brady, Brees, P. Manning as a top 4 in whatever order we debate about. Regardless though, those are our top 4 guys by a decent margin.

 

From 5 - 10 it's an absolute log jam.

 

Ben Roethlisberger

Eli Manning

Joe Flacco

Matt Ryan

Tony Romo

Matt Schaubb

 

I would probably consider #5 to be between Roethlisberger and Eli Manning for myself. It might seem weird to a lot of people to consider Eli at #5, but the guy makes plays. His turnover rate isn't that great, but a lot of his turnovers come on some plays that are just weird as hell. I have never seen a quarterback have so many tipped balls at the LOS end up in INTs. Then after those two, I think it's a good place for the Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, ?Matt Schaubb? and Tony Romo argument (Even with Flaccos playoff performance). I'm not sure what order I would put those guys in, probably Flacco, Ryan, Romo, Schaubb when it was all said and done. Regardless though, I think my point sticks that for Flacco to be bounced into the top 5 by most people, he's going to need his playoff performance to translate to the regular season.

[baltimoreravens 19]

Donovan McNabb says Flacco is top five - http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000137303/Where-does-Flacco-land-on-Top-10-QB-list

[oochymp 2,393]

Donovan McNabb says Flacco is top five - http://www.nfl.com/v...-Top-10-QB-list

I'm surprised Donovan McNabb didn't say Donovan McNabb is top five (and yes, I watched the video before posting just to make sure he didn't )

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Donovan McNabb says Flacco is top five - http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000137303/Where-does-Flacco-land-on-Top-10-QB-list

 

There you have it, folks, Joe Flacco sucks, lol.

[Dutch 874]

Yeah, I watched Mcnabb's QB ranking live and all I could do is shake my head... His list became a joke when he put Big Ben at #8.

[seanbrock 1,684]

I'd still put Eli above Flacco. They've had some similar playoff runs but Eli has put up elite regular season stats like 3 or 4 times over a complete season, something Flacco has yet to do even once.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I'm surprised Donovan McNabb didn't say Donovan McNabb is top five (and yes, I watched the video before posting just to make sure he didn't )

 

I am too... But because he should be in the top 5. I kid I kid

 

Anyway, I don't mean to jump on a thread about Flacco and defend Matt Stafford, but as a Lions fan, and a supporter of Stafford I am contractually obliged to.

 

He isn't a top 10 QB because he wasn't able to maintain his level of play from 2011 throughout this past year, but I think some people are starting to look at him as just a bad QB which is far from the case.

 

The excessive amount of times he threw the ball hurt him as much as it did help him (if it helped him at all). The ATL game which I'm happy was nationally televised showed pretty much the problem. His numbers looked great (outside of no TDs, a huge problem this season) until he hit that 30-35 range where he started cooling off, and since we chose not to give him a consistent run game to take pressure off, he has to just keep slinging it and hope he can get back on track. His most inefficient stats all season came when he hit 35ish attempts, and was forced to just keep throwing and throwing.

 

A lot of young QBs in the NFL would start putting up ugly numbers if they had to do the same thing.

 

Anyway, carry on...

[Thanatos 2,847]

I'm not even looking at his numbers, Dmac, I'm watching him throw that ugly side arm pass a ton when he didn't have to. I'm watching him not step into throws. He looked like he went two years backward.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

All I'm doing is making a case for why he looked worse and his numbers seemed worse. I know first hand how badly regressed.

Edited February 8, 2013 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[BwareDWare94 723]

Matt Stafford will not become the QB he is capable of being until two things happen. 1. Detroit stops running such a dumb offense and actually tries to run the ball a bit. 2. He actually takes mechanics seriously.

 

He may have a lot of God-given arm talent, but he looked like he was practically a rookie this past year. That was frustrating.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

At this point, I think you are going to get what you see out of Matt Stafford. Could he change his fundamentals and mechanics? Probably.. but at this point, you might just have to take what you can get and find a way to use what he already does to your advantage.

 

Part of the problem, other than the fact he is wildly inconsistent and a volume thrower.. Is the fact that I think he is stuck in this perpetual underdog mentality. He makes dumb throws all the time, but he doesn't play smart even the rare times the Lions have a lead. He's always flinging it around regardless of the scoreboard...

 

Sometimes you just need to chill out. Defenses might get shredded early on by Matt, but all they have to do is remain steady and calm..... Eventually -- he will make a mistake, give the momentum to the opponent, and wind up losing you a football game.

 

Again, I don't know if there is much changing that.

[Dutch 874]

At this point, I think you are going to get what you see out of Matt Stafford. Could he change his fundamentals and mechanics? Probably.. but at this point, you might just have to take what you can get and find a way to use what he already does to your advantage.

 

Part of the problem, other than the fact he is wildly inconsistent and a volume thrower.. Is the fact that I think he is stuck in this perpetual underdog mentality. He makes dumb throws all the time, but he doesn't play smart even the rare times the Lions have a lead. He's always flinging it around regardless of the scoreboard...

 

Sometimes you just need to chill out. Defenses might get shredded early on by Matt, but all they have to do is remain steady and calm..... Eventually -- he will make a mistake, give the momentum to the opponent, and wind up losing you a football game.

 

Again, I don't know if there is much changing that.

 

Players can always improve and get better but everything else you said was pretty much on the money. He just has to get the mental part down; making better decisions and having the discipline to execute better fundamentally: stepping into throws, better body mechanics etc.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

It's a lot easier to change the physical, not as easy to change the mental stuff and his general approach to the game.

 

Again, not impossible... but a lot more difficult.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

It's a lot easier to change the physical, not as easy to change the mental stuff and his general approach to the game.

 

Again, not impossible... but a lot more difficult.

 

I disagree there, arm strength, large frames are something that you are either born with or you are not. The mental part can come with film preparation and as we have seen offenses catered to one person are really successful. The rub is getting personnel to match what you are doing and coaches to utilize those strengths.

 

In Staffords case he has to have an offense that is going to be more conducive to his success. I mean he has Megatron and don;t get me wrong while most people who kill for a guy with that talent, that gives the offense enough talent just to make it close. Now if you were to give Stafford a full compliment of a supporting cast I think he would be much better than this past season indicates. GEt him a DURABLE RB, and decent O line and one more threat and the offense could explode.

[baltimoreravens 19]

When did this thread become a Stafford debate? Should we just start threads for all the QBs who's "elite" status is controversial? I think I'll start the Gabbert thread.

[Thanatos 2,847]

When did this thread become a Stafford debate? Should we just start threads for all the QBs who's "elite" status is controversial? I think I'll start the Gabbert thread.

 

I'll make the Andy Dalton thread!

[butta54 371]

Who are the 14 QBs ahead of him? More importantly, you believe there are 14 QBs in the league who could have performed the way Flacco did in the playoffs to help lead his team to a superbowl?

 

 

Didn't say he was number 15, I said he was in the top 15

[Dutch 874]

Didn't say he was number 15, I said he was in the top 15

 

Ah okay. That still leaves a large margin of possibilities. I think you should make a list if you haven't already made one.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

I disagree there, arm strength, large frames are something that you are either born with or you are not. The mental part can come with film preparation and as we have seen offenses catered to one person are really successful. The rub is getting personnel to match what you are doing and coaches to utilize those strengths.

 

In Staffords case he has to have an offense that is going to be more conducive to his success. I mean he has Megatron and don;t get me wrong while most people who kill for a guy with that talent, that gives the offense enough talent just to make it close. Now if you were to give Stafford a full compliment of a supporting cast I think he would be much better than this past season indicates. GEt him a DURABLE RB, and decent O line and one more threat and the offense could explode.

 

I think this coming season we will see what the Lions offense can really do. I've been high on LeShoure since before he was drafted, and he has all the makings to be a great back in the league. This past season he had shown he can play great, but I think the thing that needs to be remembered is that it was his first field time in over a year. (Injury/suspension)

 

I completely agree with you on surrounding Stafford with talent. And as for what Farve said, I'm not completely sure that the offense hasn't been condusive to what you see from Stafford. (In terms of stupid plays and what not) I mean, at some point the offense needs to stop trying to go down field when they have the lead. You don't see that much from the Lions. They have a 'New england patriots' mentality, if you will, where they want to just keep scoring. They aren't that team. When they get a lead, they need to keep trying to go downfield, but in different mannors. You can't do what every one expects you to do.