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Top 20 Players in the NFC South

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http://www.profootba...yers-nfc-south/

 

LOL at Luke Kuechly being #4. He's a good, young player, but there is no way he should be that high on the list.

 

This is how my list would go:

1. Drew Brees

2. Darrelle Revis

3. Matt Ryan

4. Jimmy Graham

5. Doug Martin

6. Carl Nicks

7. Jahari Evans

8. Roddy White

9. Julio Jones

10. Vincent Jackson

11. Tony Gonzalez

12. Steve Smith

13. Gerald McCoy

14. Cam Newton

15. Marques Colston

16. Dashon Goldson

17. Ryan Kalil

18. Lavonte David

19. Luke Kuechly

20. Jordan Gross

Edited by RogerGoodellSucks

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Just a few things with this list and one of them is something that I think I've thrown my input on before, I have a lot of trouble ranking rookie players. We've seen guys come in and put up solid seasons only to disappear shortly after. I don't think that's necessarily the deal with Kuechly, but I do think that rookies should come out of the gate when making a list with a huge backwards handicap so they aren't up top.

 

If Revis is healthy, I do not believe that Matt Ryan is better than him as a player.

 

I do not believe that Roddy White is a better player than Julio Jones. Last year solidified my opinion on that, and how Julio Jones can out perform Roddy on a consistent basis when on the field but still be considered beneath him, I don't know. They are both great receivers, but Julio Jones is hands down the better of the two.

 

8. Roddy White9. Julio Jones10. Vincent Jackson

 

I think I would have Julio, Jackson, then Roddy. When Jackson is healthy, he's a machine. He put up great numbers last year with a bum ankle all season.

 

I'm also not sure that I would put David in the top 20 over guys like DeCoud (Even if he may be slightly over rated), Darren Sproles (The time share is what kills him), Jonathan Babineaux, Curtis Lofton. Just a few guys that I think I would consider putting ahead of David. Other than that, I like your list.

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Wait, wait.

 

So you laugh at Kuechly being #4 after an outstanding rookie season, but then turn around and put Doug Martin at #5? Biased much?

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Just a few things with this list and one of them is something that I think I've thrown my input on before, I have a lot of trouble ranking rookie players. We've seen guys come in and put up solid seasons only to disappear shortly after. I don't think that's necessarily the deal with Kuechly, but I do think that rookies should come out of the gate when making a list with a huge backwards handicap so they aren't up top.

 

If Revis is healthy, I do not believe that Matt Ryan is better than him as a player.

 

I do not believe that Roddy White is a better player than Julio Jones. Last year solidified my opinion on that, and how Julio Jones can out perform Roddy on a consistent basis when on the field but still be considered beneath him, I don't know. They are both great receivers, but Julio Jones is hands down the better of the two.

 

 

 

I think I would have Julio, Jackson, then Roddy. When Jackson is healthy, he's a machine. He put up great numbers last year with a bum ankle all season.

 

I'm also not sure that I would put David in the top 20 over guys like DeCoud (Even if he may be slightly over rated), Darren Sproles (The time share is what kills him), Jonathan Babineaux, Curtis Lofton. Just a few guys that I think I would consider putting ahead of David. Other than that, I like your list.

 

I think White is slightly better right now, but Julio does have a higher ceiling (which is pretty amazing). White put up better numbers than Julio did last year. IMO, Roddy gets underrated by a lot of people.

 

I could see arguments being made for those guys being over David other than Lofton. Maybe I was being a little bit of a homer there, but David is a stud and played just as well as Kuechly did last year.

 

Wait, wait.

 

So you laugh at Kuechly being #4 after an outstanding rookie season, but then turn around and put Doug Martin at #5? Biased much?

 

I was mainly laughing at the fact that he was at #4, while Lavonte David wasn't even ranked on the list. And while Kuechly did have a good rookie year, I wouldn't call it outstanding.

 

Doug Martin had an insane year, AND was missing his top two guards to run behind. Martin had more yards than schrimmage than any RB besides AP, ranked in the top 5 for total TD's and possibly most impressive of all, only fumbled once all season (Which shouldn't even have been a fumble because he had already crossed the plane for a TD).

 

 

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It's one season.

 

He isn't ahead of Ryan Kalil, Steve Smith, Jordan Gross, Julio Jones, Roddy White and Carl Nicks, to say the least.

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Smith and Newton should be way higher up (as should Keuchley). I would also put Jones ahead of White (just!). Newton is such a versatile player and, bearing in mind that he has only one decent WR to throw to and was behind a shambles of an O-Line due to injury, he really did very well. Smith is arguably a top-3 WR, he is certainly the best WR in the NFC South. If he wasn't being constantly double and triple-teamed (due to the lack of another WR option) then his last two seasons would have been even more impressive. He does better than either White or Jones would do in his situation (though probably not by that much). What makes them so effective is that teams have to account for both of them plus Gonzalez. If one of them gets injured expect the other's numbers to drop drastically.

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Leading the entire NFL in tackles and winning Defensive ROY doesn't qualify as outstanding?

 

Tough room.

 

Tackles are a very misleading stat. I remember Barrett Ruud used to be a tackling machine and would always be high up there for tackles, but a lot of those tackles came 10 yards down the field. I'm not saying this happened with Kuechly because I definitely think he is better than Ruud, but just because he led the NFL in tackles doesn't mean he had an outstanding season. IIRC, he only had 11 TFL. Fellow rookie LB's, Lavonte David and Bobby Wagner, both had a lot more than that.

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Tackles are a very misleading stat. I remember Barrett Ruud used to be a tackling machine and would always be high up there for tackles, but a lot of those tackles came 10 yards down the field. I'm not saying this happened with Kuechly because I definitely think he is better than Ruud, but just because he led the NFL in tackles doesn't mean he had an outstanding season. IIRC, he only had 11 TFL. Fellow rookie LB's, Lavonte David and Bobby Wagner, both had a lot more than that.

 

I'll take tackles out of it since it is a very subjective number.

 

These are all from ESPN where "stuffs" are TFL's.

 

Luke- 1 Sack 2 INT 11 Stuff/ 30 Stuff yards 8 Passes Defensed

David- 2 Sacks 1 INT 19 Stuff/ 44 Stuff yards 5 PD

Wagner- 2 Sacks 3 INT 6 Stuff/ 19 Stuff yards 4 PD

 

Consider Luke started at Will where he struggled until Beason went down and he slid into the middle. Almost all Luke's stats came in less games than the other two because of the initial depth chart.

Edited by Jackofalltrades
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I'll take tackles out of it since it is a very subjective number.

 

These are all from ESPN where "stuffs" are TFL's.

 

Luke- 1 Sack 2 INT 11 Stuff/ 30 Stuff yards 8 Passes Defensed

David- 2 Sacks 1 INT 19 Stuff/ 44 Stuff yards 5 PD

Wagner- 2 Sacks 3 INT 6 Stuff/ 19 Stuff yards 4 PD

 

Consider Luke started at Will where he struggled until Beason went down and he slid into the middle. Almost all Luke's stats came in less games than the other two because of the initial depth chart.

 

Was wrong about Wagner. Could have sworn he was up there with David. Either way, I'm not trying to bash Kuechly, I think he is going to be a very, very good LB and he definitely had a very good rookie season, I'm just not sure I'd consider it outstanding. I'd consider outstanding for rookies what RG3, Russell Wilson, Doug Martin and Alfred Morris did. I don't think any defensive rookies were 'outstanding' last season, but many had very good rookie seasons (like Kuechly, David, Wagner, etc).

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Would you characterize Cam's rookie season as outstanding?

 

Yes, he was pretty much the Panthers entire offense.

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Not to stray from the original topic, but if we can use Cam properly then I think the sky is the limit for him.

 

I didn't want to draft him, I was vehemently opposed to it; but I've never been happier to eat crow.

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Not to stray from the original topic, but if we can use Cam properly then I think the sky is the limit for him.

 

I didn't want to draft him, I was vehemently opposed to it; but I've never been happier to eat crow.

 

Yea, Cam has been better than I expected too. If he can get some help from the rest of his offense, I could definitely see him being in the top 10 for this list next year.

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For Cam to develop further we really need to improve our WR corps, that is where the emphasis has to be on draft day. Personally I like the idea of trading-up in the 2nd for De'Anthony Thomas and then grabbing Mike Davis from Texas in either the 4th or 5th. With regards to Keuchley, he is arguably the best MLB in the NFL. The job of the MLB isn't to make plays in the backfield, especially not in the passing game. The role of the MLB is to stop any significant gains in both the rushing and passing game. In that regard Keuchley was excellent, certainly one of the more impressive defensive prospects going forward.

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I don't think the rest of the offense has been the problem as much as it was the OC. Chudzinski tried to get too cute and it led to him outthinking himself a lot of time- espeocially with the read-option crap.

 

His rookie season it was the defense that was the problem, the O was 7th overall.

 

Last season the offense struggled until Chud pulled his head out of his ass and played a more tradtional offense. If you look at the O during the second half of the season Cam was very good, as was the entire O.

 

We need a HC who can get everyone together. I honestly think we have all the players in place to do big things. That's not to say we can't upgrade a spots, but we don't have any single position that I would deem a huge liability...now that Nakamura is a benchwarmer anyway.

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The problem I have with Martin at #4 is the fact that you just don't know what you're getting. It could have been the start of a great career or it could have just been an anomaly. I could be wrong, but I believe Martin only had 4 great games. The rest were all average. And surely, the 200+ yard 4 TD performance absolutely boosted his year end statistics.

 

Some weeks he looked like an all pro, others he just looked average. He has great burst, and he can be a mauler between the tackles, I'm just so curious as to what we will be getting to watch him do in 2013.

Edited by Rain Man

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The problem I have with Martin at #4 is the fact that you just don't know what you're getting. It could have been the start of a great career or it could have just been an anomaly. I could be wrong, but I believe Martin only had 4 great games. The rest were all average. And surely, the 200+ yard 4 TD performance absolutely boosted his year end statistics.

 

Some weeks he looked like an all pro, others he just looked average. He has great burst, and he can be a mauler between the tackles, I'm just so curious as to what we will be getting to watch him do in 2013.

 

Eh, he had over 100 rushing yards in 5 games which is pretty good. Another thing that people tend to forget about Martin is that he is such a great receiver. Some games that look like pretty poor games (Chargers, Broncos, Rams) where he didn't even reach 70 rushing yards, he ended up with over 100 total yards due to all of his receiving yards. I think there were only 5 or 6 games where he didn't have over 100 total yards.

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I don't think the rest of the offense has been the problem as much as it was the OC. Chudzinski tried to get too cute and it led to him outthinking himself a lot of time- espeocially with the read-option crap.

 

His rookie season it was the defense that was the problem, the O was 7th overall.

 

Last season the offense struggled until Chud pulled his head out of his ass and played a more tradtional offense. If you look at the O during the second half of the season Cam was very good, as was the entire O.

 

We need a HC who can get everyone together. I honestly think we have all the players in place to do big things. That's not to say we can't upgrade a spots, but we don't have any single position that I would deem a huge liability...now that Nakamura is a benchwarmer anyway.

 

Completely agree. Chud managed to design play which didn't work to Smith's, Newton's or Williams' strengths, that takes some work. Neither Newton or Williams benefit from the read-option and his determined attempts to get Smith to run more short routes (thereby removing the strength of his game) and removing any other short-options for Cam to throw to.

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My problem with Martin is despite formidable WR's to relieve pressure he still struggled against good run defenses. He beat up on the run defenses that suck- but that's why they suck.

 

He's very good and will be for a while, but I wouldn't put him in my top 5 RB's...yet.

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He's very good and will be for a while, but I wouldn't put him in my top 5 RB's...yet.

 

Neither would I. Definitely could be a little more consistent and needs to prove it for another year before I even consider him in the top 5.

 

Having two pro bowl guards back this year (Joseph and Nicks) is probably only going to help him though. So excited to see what he can do running behind both of them.

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CJ is no1, no question, but I rate Smith over all the others. He has an ability to get open every down against double and triple teams that nobody else dos.

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Texans and Cardinals haven't had a true No. 2 receiver for a while. Andre Johnson has been Schaub's premier target and he also had to deal with lots of double teams. Same with Fitzgerald and a bunch of shitty QB's he had to work with after Warner.

 

AJ Green is also in that category.

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1. Drew Brees

2. Darrelle Revis

3. Matt Ryan

4. Carl Nicks

5. Jimmy Graham

6. Jahari Evans

7. Doug Martin

8. Roddy White

9. Vincent Jackson

10. Julio Jones

11. Tony Gonzalez

12. Steve Smith

13. Gerald McCoy

14. Cam Newton

15. Luke Kuechly

16. Ben Grubbs

17. Charles Johnson

18. Dashon Goldson

19. Ryan Kalil

20. Lavonte David

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