TX Sen Wendy Davis currently in 11th hour of filibuster

[Jules 98]

Lets all sit in a circle and hold hands and sing an inspiring version of "We are the World."

 

[Guest Phailadelphia]

 

Holy shit

Edited July 4, 2013 by Favre4Ever

[Thanatos 2,847]

I don't understand why and how abortion on demand to kill a fetus can be legal than outside the exceptional cases of rape, incest and life of the mother?

 

Really? I just explained it.

 

You can't really be this out of the loop. Abortion is legal because people do not believe the fetus is a human life. If you prove that a fetus is a human life, then there would be no reason for an amendment because it would be murder.

[Bucman 891]

http://www.salon.com/2013/06/25/caught_on_tape_crisis_pregnancy_centers_false_dangerous_advice/

 

State funding isn't going to Planned Parenthood in Ohio anymore.. it's going to fake "pregnancy crisis" centers like this. Not only are girls peeing in dixie cups as "pregnancy tests".. they then have to give personal information that NO crisis center is entitled to, and then have to sit through an INTERROGATION with someone like this with no medical training, and only spewing lies that are meant to scare women out of doing what is best for themselves and their bodies. Oh, and the whole "You shouldn't be having sex outside of marriage" may be my favorite part.

[blotsfan 2,112]

Well thats horrific.

 

Anti-abortion people: note the people on your side. Thats who you are grouping yourselves with.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

The worst thing about closing these PP facilities, to me, is that they offer FAR more services than abortion. My girlfriend, for instance, who cannot afford health insurance, goes to PP for pap smears, birth control, and anything else she needs because they offer deeply discounted services for economically disadvantaged women. Closing these facilities does far more damage to poor women than it does to divert abortion.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Well thats horrific.

 

Anti-abortion people: note the people on your side. Thats who you are grouping yourselves with.

 

Now hold on just a minute. You are taking an example of one case and using that to smear every crisis center with the same brush. I volunteer at one when I can and not all of them are like that. I might as well bring up the video an anti-abortionist did while undercover at a PP clinic where they were encouraging her to break the law and say "take note, pro-choicers, this is who you're grouping yourself with."

 

Do you think this lady would have posted this video if the person had given her accurate information? Of course not, she's trying to make them look bad.

 

Crisis centers do a ton of good work and help women and girls set up adoptions with willing families, a lot of times in conjunction with churches. Don't paint them all with the same brush.

[blotsfan 2,112]

If a person decides that they want birth control or an abortion, would those crisis centers give it to them? Because I don't see the need for those over planned parenthood, which actually does good work as Phail has said.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Of course not, because they believe abortion to be murder. No one is forcing the girls to go inside the center. What is incredibly dumb is that my tax dollars go to fund Planned Parenthood, which, in my mind, is helping to kill a lot of innocents.

 

All you have to do is show the girls an ultrasound. There'd be a lot less abortions if you let the girl take a look at what she is killing first.

[blotsfan 2,112]

Because emotional blackmail is ok.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Because emotional blackmail is ok.

 

Nevermind that getting an abortion is an emotionally scarring event to begin with. But here, let me force you to look at this ultrasound too! It won't change your mind, but it might give you PTSD! Oh, and we're going to close as many PP facilities as we can, so good luck finding affordable post-abortion psychological counseling! OK great!

[Thanatos 2,847]

No, because seeing that its an actual CHILD might prevent you from making the decision to MURDER it.

 

Emotional blackmail, lol.

 

"Murdering your child in the womb is fine, but dear god, do not use emotional blackmail. That's just out of line."

 

And if you think it won't change your mind, then you're just on something. I know several women who changed their minds after seeing their child.

 

Also I didn't say anything about forcing them to have an ultrasound either. Not sure where you got that.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Thanatos19

[blotsfan 2,112]

You implied it and my mind went there because a lot of states either do force that or try to force it.

 

Also, not born, not a person, not murder. It might make them change their mind, but only because of an instant emotional decision.

[Thanatos 2,847]

The location of a person does not make them a not-person.

 

And no. Your insistence on this is kinda stupid. It makes a lot of people change their minds because they've been told its not a person. But you can't deny what your eyes see. So then they see their child, and they're like, "Well, that's a child. Can't deny it now."

 

I didn't imply forcing it in the slightest.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

This debate is not going to evolve into anything meaningful if the beginning and end of every point is "it's murder."

[GA_Eagle 595]

This debate is not going to evolve into anything meaningful if the beginning and end of every point is "it's murder."

 

That is the debate. Weighing the rights of the woman to her body vs. Killing an unborn child. I don't see why it should change.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Yeah. I'm getting extremely tired of the "I can do what I want" attitude, because it should be "we." They should talk about "us" and not "I."

 

I'm not referring to the woman and the fetus; I'm talking about the woman and that man who are responsible for the conception.

[blotsfan 2,112]

Bware, what way would you change abortion law so the man and woman can have an equal say in it that doesn't end in a man being able to decide what a woman does with her own body?

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

That is the debate. Weighing the rights of the woman to her body vs. Killing an unborn child. I don't see why it should change.

 

Exactly. And it's the reason there will never be a "winner" in the debate, because no matter which side you deem as "right" -- somebody is losing their rights.

 

Abortion is a lose-lose situation.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

That is the debate. Weighing the rights of the woman to her body vs. Killing an unborn child. I don't see why it should change.

 

If you start with "it's a person" and argue from there, then we're debating the definition of murder. That is not an abortion debate.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Bware, what way would you change abortion law so the man and woman can have an equal say in it that doesn't end in a man being able to decide what a woman does with her own body?

 

It's not about her body; it's about a separate individual.

 

I just think that both perspectives should matter, but they don't.

[blotsfan 2,112]

You keep beating around the bush. In your world, what do you do if one wants an abortion, and the other doesn't?

[RazorStar 4,025]

You keep beating around the bush. In your world, what do you do if one wants an abortion, and the other doesn't?

 

Meet them in the middle, have the child pop out the birth canal and then abort it.

 

(That's horrible, I'm sorry.)

[Thanatos 2,847]

If you start with "it's a person" and argue from there, then we're debating the definition of murder. That is not an abortion debate.

 

That IS the abortion debate. It's why people get so fired up about this issue. You are killing a human being because it is inconvenient to carry it to term. Obviously, people who believe in abortion don't think its killing a human, I would hope. But the debate is always going to revolve around whether or not it is.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

On the original topic: SB1, the new abortion bill, has passed the House. Goes to the Senate for debate & vote on Friday, where it will probably pass. Poor Texas women are about to get fucking REAMED by their state.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Phailadelphia