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There's no difference between this game and the Fail Mary contest last season. Except that when that happened, everyone just talked about how the Packers got robbed whereas in this case they're just talking about how we choked. I think that's BS and I don't mind saying so.

 

except that the bad call in this game came at the beginning of the fourth quarter, meaning the Chargers had plenty of time to make the bad call irrelevant, the Fail Mary last year was literally the last play of the game, it's also worth pointing out that even after the bad call the Chargers still had a seven point lead

 

 

They're the same in that in both instances, one of the teams received enough points to secure the win due to a failure on the official's part.

 

Are you saying that if the Titans had lost to the Steelers under the same circumstances, you'd be all good with it?

 

 

No, what he's saying is that the Packers didn't have a chance to alter their fate because time expired as to where the Chargers had an entire quarter to change the outcome of the game. Not to mention that the Texans didn't even take the lead with that score. Timing, when the calls occurred is the big difference here.

 

 

The point differential had the same effect on the outcome. The team that earned fewer points got the win in both instances.

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They're the same in that in both instances, one of the teams received enough points to secure the win due to a failure on the official's part.

 

 

Are you saying that if the Titans had lost to the Steelers under the same circumstances, you'd be all good with it?

 

oh, I'd be pissed, but not at the refs, I'd be pissed at my team for not regrouping and holding onto the seven point lead they still had, I think there's also a pretty significant difference here in the refs merely giving Houston an opportunity to score seven points instead of three, the penalty didn't actually put points on the board (in fact it took points off the board) the Chargers still could have held the Texans out of the endzone or forced a turnover, then nobody would have cared about the bad call

Edited by oochymp

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Not to mention, momentum, I had the feeling that there was some wind taken out of the Texans sails when we held them to that FG.

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Not to mention, momentum, I had the feeling that there was some wind taken out of the Texans sails when we held them to that FG.

 

But apparently that doesn't matter since it wasn't the last play of the game.

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There's no difference between this game and the Fail Mary contest last season. Except that when that happened, everyone just talked about how the Packers got robbed whereas in this case they're just talking about how we choked. I think that's BS and I don't mind saying so.

 

except that the bad call in this game came at the beginning of the fourth quarter, meaning the Chargers had plenty of time to make the bad call irrelevant, the Fail Mary last year was literally the last play of the game, it's also worth pointing out that even after the bad call the Chargers still had a seven point lead

 

 

They're the same in that in both instances, one of the teams received enough points to secure the win due to a failure on the official's part.

 

Are you saying that if the Titans had lost to the Steelers under the same circumstances, you'd be all good with it?

 

 

No, what he's saying is that the Packers didn't have a chance to alter their fate because time expired as to where the Chargers had an entire quarter to change the outcome of the game. Not to mention that the Texans didn't even take the lead with that score. Timing, when the calls occurred is the big difference here.

 

 

The point differential had the same effect on the outcome. The team that earned fewer points got the win in both instances.

 

 

You're missing the point. The Packers had to except the outcome where the Chargers had an entire quarter to change the outcome and failed to do so. Different circumstances. That one play didn't cost the Chargers the game. The multitude of plays after the fact that they didn't capitalize on was the reason. They were still up at that point. If the Chargers executed and their defense stands tall or the Chargers put some points on the board then you guys win. That's like saying if the Redskins would have scored a last minute TD and I say the only reason they won is because of the bad call in the beginning of the game that resulted in a TD instead of saying my defense should have stopped them from scoring when the game was on the line. One play that early in a one possession game can't dictate the outcome. It's a 60 minute football game and as long as there's sufficient time on the clock, the team that makes more plays wins the game.

Edited by dutchff7

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They're the same in that in both instances, one of the teams received enough points to secure the win due to a failure on the official's part.

 

 

Are you saying that if the Titans had lost to the Steelers under the same circumstances, you'd be all good with it?

 

oh, I'd be pissed, but not at the refs, I'd be pissed at my team for not regrouping and holding onto the seven point lead they still had, I think there's also a pretty significant difference here in the refs merely giving Houston an opportunity to score seven points instead of three, the penalty didn't actually put points on the board (in fact it took points off the board) the Chargers still could have held the Texans out of the endzone or forced a turnover, then nobody would have cared about the bad call

 

 

 

 

 

They're the same in that in both instances, one of the teams received enough points to secure the win due to a failure on the official's part.

 

 

Are you saying that if the Titans had lost to the Steelers under the same circumstances, you'd be all good with it?

 

oh, I'd be pissed, but not at the refs, I'd be pissed at my team for not regrouping and holding onto the seven point lead they still had, I think there's also a pretty significant difference here in the refs merely giving Houston an opportunity to score seven points instead of three, the penalty didn't actually put points on the board (in fact it took points off the board) the Chargers still could have held the Texans out of the endzone or forced a turnover, then nobody would have cared about the bad call

 

 

As if giving them a fresh set of downs in the red zone was somehow to our advantage. We had already held them to three points. Acting as though it's the Chargers fault for not doing so a second time when they shouldn't have had to is silly.

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Not to mention, momentum, I had the feeling that there was some wind taken out of the Texans sails when we held them to that FG.

I can see the momentum argument, but if we're going there then we've gotta note that your defense did regroup and hold the Texans to a punt on their next drive

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They're the same in that in both instances, one of the teams received enough points to secure the win due to a failure on the official's part.

 

 

Are you saying that if the Titans had lost to the Steelers under the same circumstances, you'd be all good with it?

 

oh, I'd be pissed, but not at the refs, I'd be pissed at my team for not regrouping and holding onto the seven point lead they still had, I think there's also a pretty significant difference here in the refs merely giving Houston an opportunity to score seven points instead of three, the penalty didn't actually put points on the board (in fact it took points off the board) the Chargers still could have held the Texans out of the endzone or forced a turnover, then nobody would have cared about the bad call

 

 

As if giving them a fresh set of downs in the red zone was somehow to our advantage. We had already held them to three points. Acting as though it's the Chargers fault for not doing so a second time when they shouldn't have had to is silly.

 

perhaps pointing that out created some confusion, so let me reiterate my primary point: after the Texans' touchdown following the bad penalty the Chargers still held a seven point lead with almost the entire fourth quarter to play, that could certainly prove to be a turning point in the game, but it doesn't make the outcome inevitable

 

Bottom line: the Chargers still had a very good chance of winning that game after the penalty

Edited by oochymp

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You're missing the point. The Packers had to except the outcome where the Chargers had an entire quarter to change the outcome and failed to do so. Different circumstances. That one play didn't cost the Chargers the game. The multitude of plays after the fact that they didn't capitalize on was the reason. They were still up at that point. If the Chargers executed and their defense stands tall or the Chargers put some points on the board then you guys win. That's like saying if the Redskins would have scored a last minute TD and I say the only reason they won is the bad call in the beginning of the game instead of saying my defense should have stopped them from scoring when the game was on the line.

 

You're missing my point. The Chargers and their fans still have to accept the loss even though we most likely would have won if not for a bad call. I don't really see why everyone has a problem with me pointing that out. And no, I don't really see why it makes all that big of a difference whether or not it's the last play. Either way it's officiating changing the outcome. If the Packers would have had one more drive and failed to score, would it change the fact that officials had blown the game for them?

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You were up by 21. The game is not decided by a bad call from the refs. End of story.

 

And again, all that would have done is force the Texans to go get a TD on the last drive, something they seemed more than capable of doing. You would not have "more than likely won." The officials did not change the outcome. You cannot possibly know how the game would have gone if the Texans kick a FG there. Everything changes.

 

Complaining about one bad call by the refs when you had them by 3 TDs is silly. You had the game. You choked.

 

Same old Chargers.

 

As to your other point, the officials did not blow the game for the Packers. They got handled by Seattle's defense. 8 sacks in one half. The Pack got lucky with the calls on their TD drive. The Fail Mary masked the fact that the Seahawks outplayed the Packers for much of that game.

Edited by Thanatos19

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You're missing the point. The Packers had to except the outcome where the Chargers had an entire quarter to change the outcome and failed to do so. Different circumstances. That one play didn't cost the Chargers the game. The multitude of plays after the fact that they didn't capitalize on was the reason. They were still up at that point. If the Chargers executed and their defense stands tall or the Chargers put some points on the board then you guys win. That's like saying if the Redskins would have scored a last minute TD and I say the only reason they won is the bad call in the beginning of the game instead of saying my defense should have stopped them from scoring when the game was on the line.

 

You're missing my point. The Chargers and their fans still have to accept the loss even though we most likely would have won if not for a bad call. I don't really see why everyone has a problem with me pointing that out. And no, I don't really see why it makes all that big of a difference whether or not it's the last play. Either way it's officiating changing the outcome. If the Packers would have had one more drive and failed to score, would it change the fact that officials had blown the game for them?

 

 

That would mean the Packers still had an opportunity to win the game and they fell short. One more drive compared to an entire quarter is a stretch. The Chargers had several opportunities to hold onto their lead or put more points on the board. You're basically excusing your team for the entire 4th quarter because of one bad call as if their performance after the bad call doesn't matter. The Chargers were still responsible for holding onto that lead or adding to it. The Refs didn't stop the Chargers from playing defense or offense after that point. They had many opportunities and they were still in the lead but just failed to execute.

Edited by dutchff7

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perhaps pointing that out created some confusion, so let me reiterate my primary point: after the Texans' touchdown following the bad penalty the Chargers still held a seven point lead with almost the entire fourth quarter to play, that could certainly prove to be a turning point in the game, but it doesn't make the outcome inevitable

 

 

Bottom line: the Chargers still had a very good chance of winning that game after the penalty

 

Bottom line: the Chargers did enough to win and still lost.

 

It's not a valid argument to me to just expect us to go out there and erase what the refs had done against that team. As if it should be no problem for our offense to sustain great play for 4 great quarters against JJ Watt, Brian Cushing, Jonathan Joseph, etc. We had already made a lot of plays against that unit. They were bound to stiffen eventually, and to their credit they did. But it would have been too little too late if the game had been called fairly.


You were up by 21. The game is not decided by a bad call from the refs. End of story.

 

And again, all that would have done is force the Texans to go get a TD on the last drive, something they seemed more than capable of doing. You would not have "more than likely won."

 

Complaining about one bad call by the refs when you had them by 3 TDs is silly. You had the game. You choked.

 

Same old Chargers.

 

 

You were up by 21. The game is not decided by a bad call from the refs. End of story.

 

And again, all that would have done is force the Texans to go get a TD on the last drive, something they seemed more than capable of doing. You would not have "more than likely won."

 

Complaining about one bad call by the refs when you had them by 3 TDs is silly. You had the game. You choked.

 

Same old Chargers.

 

 

We had just kept them out of the end zone when the the bad call was made. That's the whole point.

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This confuses me:

 

On the one hand, the Chargers are to blame because they had such a good chance to hang on and win after that call was made.

 

On the other hand, the Chargers would have lost regardless of the call because we wouldn't have been able to keep the Texans out of the end zone.

 

My conclusion is that people expected the Texans to win, and they did, so no one cares how.

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Bottom line: the Chargers did enough to win and still lost.

 

It's not a valid argument to me to just expect us to go out there and erase what the refs had done against that team. As if it should be no problem for our offense to sustain great play for 4 great quarters against JJ Watt, Brian Cushing, Jonathan Joseph, etc. We had already made a lot of plays against that unit. They were bound to stiffen eventually, and to their credit they did. But it would have been too little too late if the game had been called fairly.

 

I'm not seeing a fourth great quarter against that defense, the fourth quarter saw the Chargers gain a total of 9 yards and give up a pick six, in fact, after the first drive of the second half the Chargers had only 10 yards, failing to earn a single first down, looking at those stats you will not convince me that the Chargers played a complete game

This confuses me:

 

On the one hand, the Chargers are to blame because they had such a good chance to hang on and win after that call was made.

 

On the other hand, the Chargers would have lost regardless of the call because we wouldn't have been able to keep the Texans out of the end zone.

 

My conclusion is that people expected the Texans to win, and they did, so no one cares how.

the logical point you're missing there is that in scenario 2 the Chargers would have been to blame for allowing the Texans to score a TD at the end (if we're talking about the hypothetical scenario in which the Texans get the FG when the bad penalty was given and scored a TD on their last drive rather than a FG)

Edited by oochymp

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Bottom line: the Chargers did enough to win and still lost.

 

It's not a valid argument to me to just expect us to go out there and erase what the refs had done against that team. As if it should be no problem for our offense to sustain great play for 4 great quarters against JJ Watt, Brian Cushing, Jonathan Joseph, etc. We had already made a lot of plays against that unit. They were bound to stiffen eventually, and to their credit they did. But it would have been too little too late if the game had been called fairly.

 

I'm not seeing a fourth great quarter against that defense, the fourth quarter saw the Chargers gain a total of 9 yards and give up a pick six, in fact, after the first drive of the second half the Chargers had only 10 yards, failing to earn a single first down, looking at those stats you will not convince me that the Chargers played a complete game

 

 

That's what I'm saying... we had played 3 very good quarters of offense against an elite unit. It's unrealistic to expect that to continue and it really wouldn't have been needed if they had let the FG stand. Lots of teams don't play a complete game and still win because they end up with more points than the opponent.

 

If you think I'm just totally excusing everything we did or didn't do, read what I had to say in the good, bad, and ugly thread. Because that's not the case.

 

But this play did in fact have a big impact on the game and it was completely unavoidable by the Chargers. So yeah, I'm pointing that out in the Chargers/Texans thread.

Edited by KempBolt

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I'm not saying the Chargers would have lost anyway. I'm saying that its not that you "would have more-than-likely won."

 

You can't say that. Playcalls are different, the ballgame is different.

 

It was a bad call. Bad calls happen. Good teams use the remaining 15 minutes in the game to get over the bad call.

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That's what I'm saying... we had played 3 very good quarters of offense against an elite unit. It's unrealistic to expect that to continue and it really wouldn't have been needed if they had let the FG stand. Lots of teams don't play a complete game and still win because they end up with more points than the opponent.

 

If you think I'm just totally excusing everything we did or didn't do, read what I had to say in the good, bad, and ugly thread. Because that's not the case.

But this play did in fact have a big impact on the game and it was completely unavoidable by the Chargers. So yeah, I'm pointing that out in the Chargers/Texans thread.

 

your prior post said "4 great quarters" that's what I was responding to

 

as for your last point, I think we're starting to arrive at common ground, the penalty quite possibly did have an impact on the game, but it definitely did not determine the outcome (which some of your posts seem to be implying, or outright stating)

Edited by oochymp

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That's what I'm saying... we had played 3 very good quarters of offense against an elite unit. It's unrealistic to expect that to continue and it really wouldn't have been needed if they had let the FG stand. Lots of teams don't play a complete game and still win because they end up with more points than the opponent.

 

If you think I'm just totally excusing everything we did or didn't do, read what I had to say in the good, bad, and ugly thread. Because that's not the case.

But this play did in fact have a big impact on the game and it was completely unavoidable by the Chargers. So yeah, I'm pointing that out in the Chargers/Texans thread.

 

your prior post said "4 great quarters" that's what I was responding to

 

as for your last point, I think we're starting to arrive at common ground, the penalty quite possibly did have an impact on the game, but it definitely did not determine the outcome (which some of your posts seem to be implying, or outright stating)

 

 

I was saying it was unrealistic that we would sustain 4 great quarters against that team. Not that we did play 4 great quarters.

 

And I think we'll agree to disagree. I think it may well have determined the outcome. I cannot prove, but do believe we would have won that game if that flag isn't thrown. I recognize that we could have played better and made it irrelevant, but I also recognize that it could have not been thrown and that would have made our poor 4th quarter irrelevant.

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This confuses me:

 

On the one hand, the Chargers are to blame because they had such a good chance to hang on and win after that call was made.

 

On the other hand, the Chargers would have lost regardless of the call because we wouldn't have been able to keep the Texans out of the end zone.

 

My conclusion is that people expected the Texans to win, and they did, so no one cares how.

 

That's not my stance. My only stance is that one bad call cannot dictate the game with that much time on the clock in a one possession game especially if you're still in the lead. Like I said, if the Redskins scored within the last 2 mins of the 4th quarter, it's no way I would have complained about that one bad call that resulted in a TD because my team still had an opportunity to win the game and they stopped playing good football in the 4th quarter. It's a 60 minute football game and the 4th quarter matters.

 

 

If you think I'm just totally excusing everything we did or didn't do, read what I had to say in the good, bad, and ugly thread. Because that's not the case.

 

 

You're excusing everything that happened after the bad call which is basically almost the entire 4th quarter. The Chargers had the lead, control of the game, and could have let their play dictate the outcome of the game but they failed to execute.

Edited by dutchff7

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I was saying it was unrealistic that we would sustain 4 great quarters against that team. Not that we did play 4 great quarters.

 

And I think we'll agree to disagree. I think it may well have determined the outcome. I cannot prove, but do believe we would have won that game if that flag isn't thrown. I recognize that we could have played better and made it irrelevant, but I also recognize that it could have not been thrown and that would have made our poor 4th quarter irrelevant.

 

fair enough, looking back at your earlier post about four great quarters I can see I misread it, and I think it's obvious at this point that nobody's changing their mind here, but I do want to point out that I think we're overlooking how well the Texans played in the fourth quarter (not saying anyone is denying that the Texans played well late in that game, just that while we're talking about what led to the Chargers' loss, the Texans' play must be considered) and if you're looking for individual plays, that pick six by Cushing had a much bigger impact on the outcome of the game than the bad penalty

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It's not an opinion if it's wrong. Arian Foster is unquestionably the better of the two. More physical ability. More production. He's better in every aspect except power, and that's an overrated trait to begin with.

 

I could sit here and say that the sun isn't a star, and that it's my opinion, but as I would be wrong, it isn't an opinion. Just something I don't seem to understand.

 

It is indeed an opinion, but it's just hard to realize that someone else has a differing opinion if you're this completely arrogant. Kind of like how it's my opinion that you're too lazy to actually watch the players play and just want to "lol" at me for not agreeing with the status quo on Foster/Tate.

 

Foster is wearing down. It became increasingly apparent down the stretch last season and it looked the same exact way against the Chargers in week one. At this point in their careers, Tate is quicker in his cuts, faster down the field, and more elusive/powerful when being tackled. That is an observable reality- unlike your ridiculous analogy. There's also the fact that during the one season where Tate was actually given significant touches, he averaged a yard more per carry than Foster.

 

Now maybe the recent trend will reverse this season and Foster will look more like the 2010 version of himself, but I doubt it. He's coming off a 391 touch season, and 1,115 touches over the past 3 seasons combined. His YPC has gone from 4.9 to 4.4 to 4.1 from 2010-2012. Starting to see a trend? Or are you too busy thinking up quips about the sun and stars?

 

 

Nope. I've seen both play. One has incredible vision and cutting ability, not to mention is a real pass catching the threat. The other is pretty much a power back benefiting from a great offensive line. I think of Ben Tate as practically a Derreck Ward type of runner. Lots of power, a matchup nightmare for certain teams, but I kind of doubt he'd be as good behind a less offensive line, whereas I think Foster's skills transcend better to lesser OLs.

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I was saying it was unrealistic that we would sustain 4 great quarters against that team. Not that we did play 4 great quarters.

 

And I think we'll agree to disagree. I think it may well have determined the outcome. I cannot prove, but do believe we would have won that game if that flag isn't thrown. I recognize that we could have played better and made it irrelevant, but I also recognize that it could have not been thrown and that would have made our poor 4th quarter irrelevant.

 

fair enough, looking back at your earlier post about four great quarters I can see I misread it, and I think it's obvious at this point that nobody's changing their mind here, but I do want to point out that I think we're overlooking how well the Texans played in the fourth quarter (not saying anyone is denying that the Texans played well late in that game, just that while we're talking about what led to the Chargers' loss, the Texans' play must be considered) and if you're looking for individual plays, that pick six by Cushing had a much bigger impact on the outcome of the game than the bad penalty

Texans played great. Took advantage of their opportunities and made plays. Hats off to them. My point is not to say otherwise.

 

 

 

 

It's not an opinion if it's wrong. Arian Foster is unquestionably the better of the two. More physical ability. More production. He's better in every aspect except power, and that's an overrated trait to begin with.

 

I could sit here and say that the sun isn't a star, and that it's my opinion, but as I would be wrong, it isn't an opinion. Just something I don't seem to understand.

It is indeed an opinion, but it's just hard to realize that someone else has a differing opinion if you're this completely arrogant. Kind of like how it's my opinion that you're too lazy to actually watch the players play and just want to "lol" at me for not agreeing with the status quo on Foster/Tate.

 

Foster is wearing down. It became increasingly apparent down the stretch last season and it looked the same exact way against the Chargers in week one. At this point in their careers, Tate is quicker in his cuts, faster down the field, and more elusive/powerful when being tackled. That is an observable reality- unlike your ridiculous analogy. There's also the fact that during the one season where Tate was actually given significant touches, he averaged a yard more per carry than Foster.

 

Now maybe the recent trend will reverse this season and Foster will look more like the 2010 version of himself, but I doubt it. He's coming off a 391 touch season, and 1,115 touches over the past 3 seasons combined. His YPC has gone from 4.9 to 4.4 to 4.1 from 2010-2012. Starting to see a trend? Or are you too busy thinking up quips about the sun and stars?

Nope. I've seen both play. One has incredible vision and cutting ability, not to mention is a real pass catching the threat. The other is pretty much a power back benefiting from a great offensive line. I think of Ben Tate as practically a Derreck Ward type of runner. Lots of power, a matchup nightmare for certain teams, but I kind of doubt he'd be as good behind a less offensive line, whereas I think Foster's skills transcend better to lesser OLs.

Your opinion is wrong because it's just like saying grass is blue or some shit. You understand.

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