Vin+ 3,121 Posted January 13, 2014 Yeah, yeah, I made a thread about Peyton Manning. Shocking. On Peyton's legacy, I was thinking about this earlier today, it seems to me that he has nothing to lose over these next three weeks and everything to gain. A loss this week, or in the SB, and the people who don't have a favorable opinion of him feel as if their feelings have been validated and everything remains the same. But what if he wins? Does the narrative surrounding his career change, or are things all ready too far gone to be repaired? I think that these next two games are the most important games in deciding how history, and people, remembers Peyton. Now keep in mind, I'm talking about strictly football, not the opinions that he's an egotistical asshole, etc. What say you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JetsFan4Life 542 Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) I agree. I guess I'm a "Peyton supporter" in the fact that I love to watch the guy play and to be honest it gets kind of annoying seeing people rag on him consistently (not just here but it definitely happens on this site as well). Now as much as I like him and he may be one of if not the greatest regular season quarterback of all-time there is no denying his playoff shortcomings. I believe he is still under .500 in the playoffs and of course over his long career has only managed to win one Super Bowl in which a lot of people say the defense won it for him and he got to play against Rex Grossman. It starts with this week and going against Brady and the Patriots, the team and the QB that has always been there in his way. If he were to win ANOTHER Super Bowl this year.....against a team with a really good defense and better than Grossman quarterbacks I know it's not going to change him to a playoff winner automatically but it will ease some of the criticism. Also factor this in. The Super Bowl is of course in New Jersey this year and imagine if Peyton were able to win in cold or even snowy conditions with all the talk of him not being a cold weather quarterback. I think that would help him out even more. Edited January 13, 2014 by JetsFan4Life Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ATL_Predator+ 1,196 Posted January 13, 2014 It would definitely be beneficial for Peyton to get another ring as much as I don't want to see that happen. He's had a dominating career throughout the regular season, but he has also had quite a few hideous playoff games. I look at it like this...if Peyton hadn't won a SB would I look at him differently? Honestly not. I hate Peyton as much as the next guy, but you cannot deny his knowledge and understanding of the game...he perfects it. He is the OC. He's a living legend and I don't think if he didn't win another SB his legacy would be tarnished. To me that is, and I personally hate him. There has never been a time when my team plays Peyton...where I don't say 'Oh Fuck' repeatedly before and during and after the game. He's always a threat, he's always going to put up the numbers...and any QB that can do that on a consistent basis for so many years and be the reason why one team goes from a playoff contender to a 2-14 team...I think that speaks for itself. He makes players better around him, and is a special QB. I hate the man, but damn. He's had one hell of a career. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BwareDWare94 723 Posted January 13, 2014 I'm not that impressed by a QB getting a late career ring with arguably the greatest assembled cast of weapons we've ever seen. Especially with Moreno finally staying healthy and proving what kind of player he is. I do want to see Denver vs. Seattle in the Super Bowl, though. Best defense. Best offense. On the other side of the ball we have the worst defense remaining in Denver, and by far the worst offense remaining in Seattle. It'd be a great Super Bowl, and we'd get to find out what's easier to survive without. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted January 13, 2014 fuck him 5 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theMileHighGuy 656 Posted January 13, 2014 I'm no super-fan of Manning, but in my opinion if Manning wins a superbowl here he's the greatest of all time, no question in my mind about it. Building one team up and going to and winning the super bowl is one thing, going to another team at the end of his career and building them up and winning the superbowl would be unheard of. Anyone who thinks what Manning is doing here isn't impressive has clearly never watched this team helmed by Osweiler (The second half of week 17 for instance). We are shit without Manning. We have a lot of talented young players, but the only reason they know where to be or what to do is because coach Peyt puts them there. Doesn't matter though, if he does win there will be excuses on how insignificant it is, and if he loses he'll be no further along than he was last year. Such is the plight of Peyton Manning. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sarge+ 3,436 Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) I'm not that impressed by a QB getting a late career ring with arguably the greatest assembled cast of weapons we've ever seen. Especially with Moreno finally staying healthy and proving what kind of player he is. I do want to see Denver vs. Seattle in the Super Bowl, though. Best defense. Best offense. On the other side of the ball we have the worst defense remaining in Denver, and by far the worst offense remaining in Seattle. It'd be a great Super Bowl, and we'd get to find out what's easier to survive without. Not sure I buy the whole "Peyton is a product of the team around him" narrative. For years in Indy he put up huge numbers, misses an entire year, many people here at this very site (I can find quotes if you want) said he might not even play again, and if he does, he'll never be the same player. Peyton went to 2 different teams with 2 different coaches and supporting casts and made them into some of the best teams in the league. Brandon Stokely was a 1,000 yard/10 TD receiver at one time under Peyton. Brandon fucking Stokely. I think the whole "supporting cast makes Peyton better" thing is pretty old and tired, personally. I do think the guy is pretty arrogant and a douchebag teammate, but nobody can ever deny his talent. If he actually plays great the next 2 games and wins another ring, I don't see what else could be held against his actual football career. I agree with Vin, the next 2 weeks are the biggest games determining his legacy. I think a lot of people would just be angry because they would have to find a new player to bandwagon hate to be totally honest. There's no logical argument that could be made against Manning if he plays well the next 2 weeks and goes out with another ring. Edit: I know I'm going to get negged for this post, but I honestly really don't care. Neg away Edited January 13, 2014 by Sarge 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vin+ 3,121 Posted January 13, 2014 fuck him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzkeNHGM9d8 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FartWaffles 1,857 Posted January 13, 2014 in my opinion if Manning wins a superbowl here he's the greatest of all time, no question in my mind about it. Absurd statement is absurd. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted January 13, 2014 I'm no super-fan of Manning, but in my opinion if Manning wins a superbowl here he's the greatest of all time, no question in my mind about it. Building one team up and going to and winning the super bowl is one thing, going to another team at the end of his career and building them up and winning the superbowl would be unheard of. Anyone who thinks what Manning is doing here isn't impressive has clearly never watched this team helmed by Osweiler (The second half of week 17 for instance). We are shit without Manning. We have a lot of talented young players, but the only reason they know where to be or what to do is because coach Peyt puts them there. Doesn't matter though, if he does win there will be excuses on how insignificant it is, and if he loses he'll be no further along than he was last year. Such is the plight of Peyton Manning. If you were to swap lets say Tony Romo with Peyton Manning I think the Broncos are still a 1 seed. They're a really talented team, particularly on the offensive side of the ball. Peyton is a smart guy and he picked Denver as the team to sign with for a reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barracuda 629 Posted January 13, 2014 Peyton is good. Peyton will be on nearly every top 10 list after he retires whether they win or not. Rightfully so. Peyton is pretty much this generations Dan Marino, except he already has one ring on him and possibly a second after this season. Either way, get used to hearing his name for the rest of your lives. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014 Posted January 13, 2014 Yeah, it's funny to me that everyone is giving Peyton credit for "building" the Broncos. Pretty much the entire team was there already, they just had Tebow running the show. And Peyton didn't sign Vasquez and Welker, lol. If Peyton wins a ring this year and they win because of him rather than in spite of him, I'll give him credit. It won't erase the other decade and a half of playoff woes, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SteVo+ 3,702 Posted January 13, 2014 We can debate his long-term legacy later, but for now, he certainly didn't choke against the Chargers, like TGP expected him to. Next week is another opportunity, I suppose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014 Posted January 13, 2014 We'd probably be calling him a choker had SD caught that gimme' INT on a drive that ended in a TD. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theMileHighGuy 656 Posted January 13, 2014 I'm no super-fan of Manning, but in my opinion if Manning wins a superbowl here he's the greatest of all time, no question in my mind about it. Building one team up and going to and winning the super bowl is one thing, going to another team at the end of his career and building them up and winning the superbowl would be unheard of. Anyone who thinks what Manning is doing here isn't impressive has clearly never watched this team helmed by Osweiler (The second half of week 17 for instance). We are shit without Manning. We have a lot of talented young players, but the only reason they know where to be or what to do is because coach Peyt puts them there. Doesn't matter though, if he does win there will be excuses on how insignificant it is, and if he loses he'll be no further along than he was last year. Such is the plight of Peyton Manning. If you were to swap lets say Tony Romo with Peyton Manning I think the Broncos are still a 1 seed. They're a really talented team, particularly on the offensive side of the ball. Peyton is a smart guy and he picked Denver as the team to sign with for a reason. the cowboys have plenty of weapons to not make the playoffs with. If you put Manning on the Cowboys, the Cowboys are probably a bye team. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted January 14, 2014 Peyton is already going down in the minds of the media as the greatest to ever play the game. However, him earning a super bowl win here by continually playing well will do wonders. Right now he hasn't sunk us with bad play, and our defense played hard for most of the game to give us a big enough gap to win. Let him take care of the Patriots, then we can start talking legacies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milla4Prez63 678 Posted January 14, 2014 It would be pretty rough to be a Colts fan if the Broncos go on to win the Super Bowl. I couldn't imagine the best player in your team's history holding up the Lombardi for another team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BJORN 679 Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) Yeah, it's funny to me that everyone is giving Peyton credit for "building" the Broncos. Pretty much the entire team was there already, they just had Tebow running the show. And Peyton didn't sign Vasquez and Welker, lol. If Peyton wins a ring this year and they win because of him rather than in spite of him, I'll give him credit. It won't erase the other decade and a half of playoff woes, though. Hey, I don't want to say you're wrong as clearly Manning wasn't great in that super bowl run but he did rack up a ton of yards and put together some key drives in that playoff run that didn't end up with him throwing TD passes. Obviously a 3:7 TD/Int ratio leaves a lot to be desired. I just wouldn't say they won in spite of him (well maybe not in the wildcard round lol) I'd leave it at him being just merely an average QB in the playoffs while being a dominant regular season QB. I think he needs to either win another SB and play well or at least put in a few great games individually to get us to overlook the fact that he hasn't been as great in the postseason. I do disagree with your first paragraph though. Peyton played a huge role in building Denver IMO. The Broncos were grinding away lucky/miraculous wins with Tebow before Manning came. He didn't walk into a great situation, merely an average one. They didn't get over the top good until this year but in general I have to say I think their defense has underachieved a little bit though they have been injured. Peyton had to be the main selling point for the Welker and Vasquez's decisions to come to Denver. Edited January 14, 2014 by BJORN 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) in my opinion if Manning wins a superbowl here he's the greatest of all time, no question in my mind about it. Absurd statement is absurd. More on topic, though. Peyton's legacy is set in stone. I honestly don't see it moving much, either way. It will, slightly, but nothing that changes how he is viewed drastically. If he loses, he gets ridiculed for losing to Brady for a few weeks, but it will subside and be nothing more than political fodder for anti-Manning people like myself. It will definitely be a talking point, but not much more. Let's say he wins... Obviously having more rings will adjust his status slightly. But this late in his career, with the cast he has around him? Winning a title just wouldn't catapult him up standings like everyone thinks. Regardless of my personal feelings towards him, he really doesn't have that much room to move up -- with or without another ring. Now, I am not saying winning would be seen as a bad thing in any way because of the great situation he is in. Not at all. I am just saying... He's a selfish stat padding whore.. It's what Peyton does. But where he is in his career, I just don't think it's that big of a deal -- relative to his legacy. He will ALWAYS... ALWAYS be remembered as one of the greatest QBs at the line of scrimmage, and he will ALWAYS be remembered for choking in the playoffs. There is very little to gain and even less to lose in regards to Peyton's legacy and the outcome of this season. He's spent almost two decades building that legacy, it isn't changing with another victory. He could win the next two Super Bowls, and I don't think he would move up many peoples all time lists. I am sure there are some out there, but he is already at (incorrectly, may I add ) or near the top of a lot of lists. If he loses this year, goes one and done next year... Is he really going to freefall on those same lists? Nope. Now, obviously he and everyone close to him would be super excited to win another title. But that's not the discussion. The discussion is -- does it effect his legacy? And my answer is... Not really. Edited January 14, 2014 by Favre4Ever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted January 14, 2014 I would say that he did underachieve against the Chargers though imo. The dude re-writes the record books in the regular season and has a good but very much unspectacular game. Gotta hang up more points on that defense, but the turnovers weren't his fault. I'll give him that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BJORN 679 Posted January 14, 2014 I would say that he did underachieve against the Chargers though imo. The dude re-writes the record books in the regular season and has a good but very much unspectacular game. Gotta hang up more points on that defense, but the turnovers weren't his fault. I'll give him that. He didn't exactly light us up in the regular season either though. We just always seem to have his number for some reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted January 14, 2014 If the number of encroachment penalties is any indication, you really had his number. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theMileHighGuy 656 Posted January 14, 2014 in my opinion if Manning wins a superbowl here he's the greatest of all time, no question in my mind about it. Absurd statement is absurd. ... and you guys want to talk about Manning being carried by great teams 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted January 14, 2014 Except Montana is like the polar opposite of Manning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted January 14, 2014 Joe Montana was very fortunate to be surrounded by great coaching and great players, but how many QB's have we seen have a bunch of talent around them and still fail when it matters most? 4 rings and 3 Super Bowl MVP's...you really think his teams carried him? The man had 11 TD's and 0 INT's in the Super Bowl. He did the same thing at Notre Dam before he even got to the NFL. Anyone who doubts Montana's credentials is misinformed. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites