Let's Talk Peyton Manning

[theMileHighGuy 656]

Montana's still up there, but there's something to be said about a QB in a system no one had seen before. I just think he gets too much credit. My old man absolutely hates him, so maybe I was raised that way. He got all the credit in that first NFCCG for leading that game winning drive when it was half running and one retarded catch by Dwight Clark.

 

Montana's probably still number one right now for me, don't get me wrong, but if Manning wins a superbowl with us he'll have done something Montana tried and failed to do. AND if he goes back to back here and people still don't think he's the GOAT, well, I would just prefer not to be in the conversation anymore.

[BwareDWare94 723]

 

I'm not that impressed by a QB getting a late career ring with arguably the greatest assembled cast of weapons we've ever seen. Especially with Moreno finally staying healthy and proving what kind of player he is.

 

 

I do want to see Denver vs. Seattle in the Super Bowl, though. Best defense. Best offense. On the other side of the ball we have the worst defense remaining in Denver, and by far the worst offense remaining in Seattle. It'd be a great Super Bowl, and we'd get to find out what's easier to survive without.

 

Not sure I buy the whole "Peyton is a product of the team around him" narrative. For years in Indy he put up huge numbers, misses an entire year, many people here at this very site (I can find quotes if you want) said he might not even play again, and if he does, he'll never be the same player. Peyton went to 2 different teams with 2 different coaches and supporting casts and made them into some of the best teams in the league. Brandon Stokely was a 1,000 yard/10 TD receiver at one time under Peyton. Brandon fucking Stokely. I think the whole "supporting cast makes Peyton better" thing is pretty old and tired, personally. I do think the guy is pretty arrogant and a douchebag teammate, but nobody can ever deny his talent. If he actually plays great the next 2 games and wins another ring, I don't see what else could be held against his actual football career. I agree with Vin, the next 2 weeks are the biggest games determining his legacy. I think a lot of people would just be angry because they would have to find a new player to bandwagon hate to be totally honest. There's no logical argument that could be made against Manning if he plays well the next 2 weeks and goes out with another ring.

 

Edit: I know I'm going to get negged for this post, but I honestly really don't care. Neg away

 

 

I wasn't saying he's a product of what's around him. There's no denying that he's a great quarterback, but I'm not about to act like he shouldn't have won this year's Super Bowl with such a phenomenal cast around him, not the mention easily the weakest AFC we've seen in quite some time. Thomas is a top 10 WR, and I think even Decker has a top 15 argument. Wes Welker is still by and far the best slot WR in the NFL, even if he doesn't match up to the outside threats. Julius Thomas has proven to be yet another huge athletic TE who's a nightmare for opposing defenses. Nobody knew him at the beginning of the year, but his physical ability has been on display and we know that he's not a product of Peyton.

 

Knowshon Moreno finally stayed healthy and was able to show us what he'd showed in flashes in past years. The OL was good enough when injured because Peyton gets rid of the ball long before pressure can even be applied.

 

What doesn't Peyton Manning have, this year? There is literally nothing missing. The defense isn't even half bad, though they're obviously miles behind the other three remaining defense.

 

This Broncos team should win the Super Bowl this year. They're in the same boat the 49ers are in. Win it this year or the chances are going to drop.

 

Right now, it looks like Broncos/9ers because of Seattle's anemic offense and New England's overall lack of fire power to stick with Denver. However, I can't shake the feeling that we're going to see Tom Brady versus the overrated Russell Wilson come Super Bowl Sunday.

 

For the record, Denver has got to be one of the most boring teams I've ever seen that could drop 50. I hate dink and dunk so much. I've never been able to to watch Peyton, because of that.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2014 by BwareDWare94

[BwareDWare94 723]

FTR, I want to get to the point where rings aren't the greatest measuring point of QBs. Joe Montana was a great quarterback, but the "great team" argument is certainly there.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

Brady>Manning

 

 

[seanbrock 1,684]

Montana's still up there, but there's something to be said about a QB in a system no one had seen before. I just think he gets too much credit. My old man absolutely hates him, so maybe I was raised that way. He got all the credit in that first NFCCG for leading that game winning drive when it was half running and one retarded catch by Dwight Clark.

 

Montana's probably still number one right now for me, don't get me wrong, but if Manning wins a superbowl with us he'll have done something Montana tried and failed to do. AND if he goes back to back here and people still don't think he's the GOAT, well, I would just prefer not to be in the conversation anymore.

Peyton had longevity on Montana, but Montana played a much more physical game. He was good with the Cheifs even when he was past his prime and like I said, Montana was doing this in college before he even came to the NFL. Every team he played for in College or the pros was a championship contender when he was on the field. The only knock on Montana is that he missed a lot of games. Honestly if he played as many games as Peyton has he could have 6 rings lol.

 

 

 

 

1977

When the 1977 season began, Montana was the third quarterback listed on the team's depth chart, behind Rusty Lisch and Gary Forystek.^[4] Notre Dame won their season opener and then lost to Mississippi by a score of 20–13. Montana did not appear in either of those games.^[15] In their third game of the season, Notre Dame played Purdue. Lisch started and was then replaced by Forystek. In one play, Forystek suffered a broken vertebra, a broken clavicle, and a severe concussion; it was the last play of Forystek's sports career.^[13] Devine inserted Lisch back into the game before Montana finally had the opportunity to play. Montana entered with approximately 11 minutes remaining and Purdue leading 24-14; he threw for 154 yards and one touchdown, and Notre Dame won the game 31-24.^[13]

After the game, Devine made Montana the first quarterback on the depth chart^[4] and the team won their remaining nine games. In their final game of the season, Notre Dame defeated top-ranked Texas by a score of 38–10 in the Cotton Bowl.^[16] Notre Dame's record of eleven wins and one loss earned them the NCAA national title, the only title the school won while Devine was head coach.

1978

The following year, Montana helped Notre Dame to a come-from-behind win against the Pitt Panthers. He almost pulled off a second one against USC, Notre Dame's primary rival. Trailing 24–6 in the second half, Montana led a fourth-quarter rally to put Notre Dame ahead, 25–24 with 45 seconds remaining, only to see the Trojans win, 27–25, on a last-second field goal.

On January 1, 1979, Notre Dame returned to the Cotton Bowl, this time against Houston. Montana's performance in that game is one of the most celebrated of his entire football career;^[13] the circumstances of the game have led to it being referred to as the "Chicken Soup Game".^[17]

Montana fell ill during the game, received warmed intravenous fluids during halftime, during which he also drank chicken soup, and went back into the game in the fourth quarter. Notre Dame ran their last offensive play with two seconds remaining on the game clock. The Irish scored a touchdown and won the game 35 to 34. As a result of the game, Notre Dame went on to produce a promotional film called Seven and a Half Minutes to Destiny. Coach Devine later referred to the piece as a "Joe Montana film."^[13]

From wikipedia^

 

I mean, if you think Montana was made by Walsh and the 9ers...you are just indisputably wrong.

Edited January 14, 2014 by seanbrock

[BradyFan81 404]

Peyton's definitely a beast. It's pretty tough to say one guy is unquestionably better than another when talking about all time greats, it usually just comes down to preference. I think Peyton is in the conversation for top 5 all time though along with Montana, Brady, Elway, or some of the older QBs like Unitas and Starr and Staubach. You can make a good argument for any one of them, and Peyton's case only gets stronger with a 2nd SB win.

[theMileHighGuy 656]

 

 

I'm not that impressed by a QB getting a late career ring with arguably the greatest assembled cast of weapons we've ever seen. Especially with Moreno finally staying healthy and proving what kind of player he is.

 

 

I do want to see Denver vs. Seattle in the Super Bowl, though. Best defense. Best offense. On the other side of the ball we have the worst defense remaining in Denver, and by far the worst offense remaining in Seattle. It'd be a great Super Bowl, and we'd get to find out what's easier to survive without.

 

Not sure I buy the whole "Peyton is a product of the team around him" narrative. For years in Indy he put up huge numbers, misses an entire year, many people here at this very site (I can find quotes if you want) said he might not even play again, and if he does, he'll never be the same player. Peyton went to 2 different teams with 2 different coaches and supporting casts and made them into some of the best teams in the league. Brandon Stokely was a 1,000 yard/10 TD receiver at one time under Peyton. Brandon fucking Stokely. I think the whole "supporting cast makes Peyton better" thing is pretty old and tired, personally. I do think the guy is pretty arrogant and a douchebag teammate, but nobody can ever deny his talent. If he actually plays great the next 2 games and wins another ring, I don't see what else could be held against his actual football career. I agree with Vin, the next 2 weeks are the biggest games determining his legacy. I think a lot of people would just be angry because they would have to find a new player to bandwagon hate to be totally honest. There's no logical argument that could be made against Manning if he plays well the next 2 weeks and goes out with another ring.

 

Edit: I know I'm going to get negged for this post, but I honestly really don't care. Neg away

 

 

I wasn't saying he's a product of what's around him. There's no denying that he's a great quarterback, but I'm not about to act like he shouldn't have won this year's Super Bowl with such a phenomenal cast around him, not the mention easily the weakest AFC we've seen in quite some time. Thomas is a top 10 WR, and I think even Decker has a top 15 argument. Wes Welker is still by and far the best slot WR in the NFL, even if he doesn't match up to the outside threats. Julius Thomas has proven to be yet another huge athletic TE who's a nightmare for opposing defenses. Nobody knew him at the beginning of the year, but his physical ability has been on display and we know that he's not a product of Peyton.

 

Knowshon Moreno finally stayed healthy and was able to show us what he'd showed in flashes in past years. The OL was good enough when injured because Peyton gets rid of the ball long before pressure can even be applied.

 

What doesn't Peyton Manning have, this year? There is literally nothing missing. The defense isn't even half bad, though they're obviously miles behind the other three remaining defense.

 

This Broncos team should win the Super Bowl this year. They're in the same boat the 49ers are in. Win it this year or the chances are going to drop.

 

Right now, it looks like Broncos/9ers because of Seattle's anemic offense and New England's overall lack of fire power to stick with Denver. However, I can't shake the feeling that we're going to see Tom Brady versus the overrated Russell Wilson come Super Bowl Sunday.

 

For the record, Denver has got to be one of the most boring teams I've ever seen that could drop 50. I hate dink and dunk so much. I've never been able to to watch Peyton, because of that.

 

 

 

 

1) Do we know that? Do we really? Manning has done nothing but teach these receivers and especially Julius Thomas from the moment he got here.

 

2) You just complemented Manning while highlighting a deficiency of ours.

 

3) Manning has more 20+ yard passes this year than at any point in his career. Watch more of our games.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

He's one of the greatest QBs of all time. The greatest I've ever seen play personally. Nothing that happens will change that at this point.

 

A little surprised that Vin of all people made thread with no news. Lol.

[BwareDWare94 723]

 

 

 

I'm not that impressed by a QB getting a late career ring with arguably the greatest assembled cast of weapons we've ever seen. Especially with Moreno finally staying healthy and proving what kind of player he is.

 

 

I do want to see Denver vs. Seattle in the Super Bowl, though. Best defense. Best offense. On the other side of the ball we have the worst defense remaining in Denver, and by far the worst offense remaining in Seattle. It'd be a great Super Bowl, and we'd get to find out what's easier to survive without.

 

Not sure I buy the whole "Peyton is a product of the team around him" narrative. For years in Indy he put up huge numbers, misses an entire year, many people here at this very site (I can find quotes if you want) said he might not even play again, and if he does, he'll never be the same player. Peyton went to 2 different teams with 2 different coaches and supporting casts and made them into some of the best teams in the league. Brandon Stokely was a 1,000 yard/10 TD receiver at one time under Peyton. Brandon fucking Stokely. I think the whole "supporting cast makes Peyton better" thing is pretty old and tired, personally. I do think the guy is pretty arrogant and a douchebag teammate, but nobody can ever deny his talent. If he actually plays great the next 2 games and wins another ring, I don't see what else could be held against his actual football career. I agree with Vin, the next 2 weeks are the biggest games determining his legacy. I think a lot of people would just be angry because they would have to find a new player to bandwagon hate to be totally honest. There's no logical argument that could be made against Manning if he plays well the next 2 weeks and goes out with another ring.

 

Edit: I know I'm going to get negged for this post, but I honestly really don't care. Neg away

 

 

I wasn't saying he's a product of what's around him. There's no denying that he's a great quarterback, but I'm not about to act like he shouldn't have won this year's Super Bowl with such a phenomenal cast around him, not the mention easily the weakest AFC we've seen in quite some time. Thomas is a top 10 WR, and I think even Decker has a top 15 argument. Wes Welker is still by and far the best slot WR in the NFL, even if he doesn't match up to the outside threats. Julius Thomas has proven to be yet another huge athletic TE who's a nightmare for opposing defenses. Nobody knew him at the beginning of the year, but his physical ability has been on display and we know that he's not a product of Peyton.

 

Knowshon Moreno finally stayed healthy and was able to show us what he'd showed in flashes in past years. The OL was good enough when injured because Peyton gets rid of the ball long before pressure can even be applied.

 

What doesn't Peyton Manning have, this year? There is literally nothing missing. The defense isn't even half bad, though they're obviously miles behind the other three remaining defense.

 

This Broncos team should win the Super Bowl this year. They're in the same boat the 49ers are in. Win it this year or the chances are going to drop.

 

Right now, it looks like Broncos/9ers because of Seattle's anemic offense and New England's overall lack of fire power to stick with Denver. However, I can't shake the feeling that we're going to see Tom Brady versus the overrated Russell Wilson come Super Bowl Sunday.

 

For the record, Denver has got to be one of the most boring teams I've ever seen that could drop 50. I hate dink and dunk so much. I've never been able to to watch Peyton, because of that.

 

 

 

 

1) Do we know that? Do we really? Manning has done nothing but teach these receivers and especially Julius Thomas from the moment he got here.

 

2) You just complemented Manning while highlighting a deficiency of ours.

 

3) Manning has more 20+ yard passes this year than at any point in his career. Watch more of our games.

 

 

When you throw as many times as Manning did, I would hope there are are plenty of 20+ yarders. Most of it was short shit. Fucking. Boring.

 

And also--yes, we know that Peyton doesn't make these weapons. In what universe is Julius Thomas not an incredibly gifted TE?

 

And just because I don't like Peyton doesn't mean I don't think he's great. He compensated for your shit line at the beginning of the year.

Edited January 14, 2014 by BwareDWare94

[BwareDWare94 723]

Also, for you Denver fans--did Chris Kuper simply never recover after his horrific ankle injury? I mean, he clearly hasn't been the same player, since. He's not even a starter, anymore, right?

[seanbrock 1,684]

I don't understand the argument that without Peyton Manning the Broncos would suck....uh well yeah, they'd be starting a back up QB. Plenty of starting QBs in the NFL could have been in the playoffs and in a lot of cases have them with a high seed. Keep in mind the Broncos play in a weak conference too.

 

Guys I think could win with the Broncos

 

Rodgers

Brady

Brees

Roethlisberger

Rivers

Wilson

Luck

Romo

Foles

Tannehill

Newton

Griffin III

Locker

Alex Smith

Cutler

Edited January 14, 2014 by seanbrock

[RazorStar 4,025]

Also, for you Denver fans--did Chris Kuper simply never recover after his horrific ankle injury? I mean, he clearly hasn't been the same player, since. He's not even a starter, anymore, right?

 

Kuper has never been the same. We forced him back into the playoffs last year against the Ravens and he let Haloti Ngata dominate him. He's riding the bench and that's where he belongs.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Montana's still up there, but there's something to be said about a QB in a system no one had seen before. I just think he gets too much credit. My old man absolutely hates him, so maybe I was raised that way. He got all the credit in that first NFCCG for leading that game winning drive when it was half running and one retarded catch by Dwight Clark.

 

Montana's probably still number one right now for me, don't get me wrong, but if Manning wins a superbowl with us he'll have done something Montana tried and failed to do. AND if he goes back to back here and people still don't think he's the GOAT, well, I would just prefer not to be in the conversation anymore.

Why would Manning be ahead of guys Johnny U, Brady, Otto Graham, Montana, and Bart Starr if he wins back to backs here?Those other guys are still better QBs and they all still have equal or more titles. As said in my introduction post in this thread, that just doesn't make sense. Manning is basically Marino with a ring.. And even with 3, that doesn't really change.

 

He is who we know he is. And winning 1 or 5 (okay, maybe 5) more rings isn't changing what we know about Peyton Manning.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Favre4Ever

[theMileHighGuy 656]

I think there's more to being in the goat conversation than titles. I have Marino higher on my list than some of those guys just due to sheer mastery of the game and the position.

 

Kuper was at one time the best RG in the NFL. He was never the same after breaking his leg/ankle. Some guys just don't heal like others. I still think that one of the biggest reasons we lost the Baltimore game was because we put Kuper in there when Ramirez had played pretty well up to that point. We couldn't run the ball to his side, and he was terrible in pass protection.

 

 

lol @ McGahee and Tebow in this gif

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I think there's more to being in the goat conversation than titles. I have Marino higher on my list than some of those guys just due to sheer mastery of the game and the position.

 

Kuper was at one time the best RG in the NFL. He was never the same after breaking his leg/ankle. Some guys just don't heal like others. I still think that one of the biggest reasons we lost the Baltimore game was because we put Kuper in there when Ramirez had played pretty well up to that point. We couldn't run the ball to his side, and he was terrible in pass protection.

 

 

lol @ McGahee and Tebow in this gif

 

Marino higher than any of those guys? Wow. Opinion Invalid.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

My opinion on these things are the same as music. I don't like "top 5" or "top 10" lists or any type of ranking players from different eras, on different teams, in different situations against each other. He's obviously a great QB, he got a ring even if he was really meh in that playoff run. His mastery of reading and manipulating defenses pre-snap is unparallelled. The dude is just good. I'm not gonna say he's the best or some other QBs the best. They're all good, I don't care who's the "GOAT." I'll just sit back in awe of their play instead.

[GA_Eagle 595]

 

More on topic, though.

 

Peyton's legacy is set in stone. I honestly don't see it moving much, either way. It will, slightly, but nothing that changes how he is viewed drastically. If he loses, he gets ridiculed for losing to Brady for a few weeks, but it will subside and be nothing more than political fodder for anti-Manning people like myself. It will definitely be a talking point, but not much more.

 

Let's say he wins... Obviously having more rings will adjust his status slightly. But this late in his career, with the cast he has around him? Winning a title just wouldn't catapult him up standings like everyone thinks. Regardless of my personal feelings towards him, he really doesn't have that much room to move up -- with or without another ring.

 

Now, I am not saying winning would be seen as a bad thing in any way because of the great situation he is in. Not at all. I am just saying... He's a selfish stat padding whore.. It's what Peyton does. But where he is in his career, I just don't think it's that big of a deal -- relative to his legacy.

He will ALWAYS... ALWAYS be remembered as one of the greatest QBs at the line of scrimmage, and he will ALWAYS be remembered for choking in the playoffs.

 

There is very little to gain and even less to lose in regards to Peyton's legacy and the outcome of this season. He's spent almost two decades building that legacy, it isn't changing with another victory.

 

He could win the next two Super Bowls, and I don't think he would move up many peoples all time lists. I am sure there are some out there, but he is already at (incorrectly, may I add ) or near the top of a lot of lists. If he loses this year, goes one and done next year... Is he really going to freefall on those same lists? Nope.

 

Now, obviously he and everyone close to him would be super excited to win another title. But that's not the discussion. The discussion is -- does it effect his legacy? And my answer is... Not really.

Lol. John Elway says hi.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I am really slow. I don't get it.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

I am really slow. I don't get it.

 

The "he can win 2 more super bowls and it wouldn't change" part is why he said Elway. Although a lot of people still don't even mention Elway when talking about "the GOAT." They're all just good QBs to me, each were special in their own ways. It's whatever.

[GA_Eagle 595]

I am really slow. I don't get it.

John elways looked completely differently now by most than he was prior to winning two Super Bowls.

[AL_Royalty 489]

Elway went to 3 super bowls and got blown out each time, leaving him add the QB who couldn't win the big game then he won back to back titles and goes down as an all time great. Winning at the end of a QB'S career is on of the best ways to solidify a legacy, especially in this era of the power ranking. What you did this week defines how you're ultimately vowed in a lot of cases.

 

As far as not being impressed because he didn't single handedly blow out the Chargers by 100, to each their own I guess. I will remind you though that Thomas had a drop before halftime in the end zone that resulted in a change of possession, and Wes had a classic Welker drop on the goal line that resulted in a missed field goal I believe. Those two balls would have put him over 300 with a shit ton of touchdowns while putting the game miles out of reach. Shit happens, but let's not start holding wins against this guy now too.

 

I don't really buy into the whole great teams bail him out notion either. He was getting playoff byes with the cast of an NFL version of where are they now at WR, no running game, and no run defense. Hell, he came into the league just in time to have a HOF running back taken away from him and watch the guy win a super bowl with a bag boy from Home Depot.

 

Another guy so many people commonly forget about is Mike Vanderjagt. That should be one of those nuff said things, but I'll add a question:how many more rings could manning have if not for the best regular season (idiot) kicker of all time?

 

I'll just leave it at that for now.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

I am really slow. I don't get it.

 

The "he can win 2 more super bowls and it wouldn't change" part is why he said Elway. Although a lot of people still don't even mention Elway when talking about "the GOAT." They're all just good QBs to me, each were special in their own ways. It's whatever.

 

 

 

 

I am really slow. I don't get it.

John elways looked completely differently now by most than he was prior to winning two Super Bowls.

 

 

 

Ah ya, my bad. Lol.

 

But ya, I am not so sure it did elevate him that much.

 

As Campin said, most of those list people don't have Elway that high (relatively speaking) anyway. And if there was an impact, I think it was more because he tried and failed so often before finally winning in the twilight of his career rather than him actually winning back to backs.

 

I think Peyton winning a title this year would be much more impactful if he didn't have one already.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Favre4Ever

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

Peyton will be a first ballot HoFer and considered one of the greatest ever regardless of how this year, or the next, or the year after if he keeps on going ends up.

 

That said, he's not going to surpass Montana as the greatest ever regardless of what he does. Montana being the greatest ever is not an opinion, it's a fact. There is no reasonable argument for any other QB over Montana, and the only one even close is Brady, and he's going to need another two or three elite post season runs to reach that level. Montana was elite in the regular season and ELEVATED his play in the post-season.

 

Anyone who thinks otherwise(about Montana being GOAT) is wrong and should be ashamed of themselves.

[theMileHighGuy 656]

 

Marino higher than any of those guys? Wow. Opinion Invalid.

 

 

If Marino played in 60's or earlier he would have every championship that there are championships for. They would've invented new ones. He was a better pure quarterback than all of those old guys.

Edited January 15, 2014 by theMileHighGuy

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

 

Marino higher than any of those guys? Wow. Opinion Invalid.

 

 

If Marino played in 60's or earlier he would have every championship that there are championships for. They would've invented new ones. He was a better pure quarterback than all of those old guys.

 

Transplanting any even mediocre QB though in this era or near it (such as Marino) would produce pretty outrageous results, don't you think? I don't believe it's a special case for Marino, and "those old guys" never get the credit they deserve for what they did and when they did it.