Let's Talk Peyton Manning

[theMileHighGuy 656]

Not discrediting at all what they did for the game, but I don't feel sentimental value makes them better quarterbacks.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

What about winning games, titles, and setting records is sentimental?

The mechanics of the position and the position itself has evolved greatly over time. That doesn't lessen the impact or accomplishments of QBs that have come before the current era.

If anything, it is the volume and propensity of stat-whoring in this era that shouldn't be over-sentimentalized.

[theMileHighGuy 656]

Manning is second all-time in wins, and has broken pretty much every record there is, but because you guys hate him there's a double standard there. It's easier to pass now, but it was also easier to pass at that time because of the evolution of the game, teams were built to run and stop the run. When Otto Graham was chucking for 3 grand a season back in the late 40's nobody knew how to stop him. That doesn't make him not great though, he's one of the more important players to the history of the game.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

How many games does Peyton Manning play in a year compared to some of those other guys? Oh right.

Ya, total double standard... The NFL is just so unfair by increasing the size of its schedule.

[theMileHighGuy 656]

How many games does Peyton Manning play in a year compared to some of those other guys? Oh right.

 

Ya, total double standard... The NFL is just so unfair by increasing the size of its schedule.

 

Compared to Favre, Brady, Montana? The same. As far as the 14-and-less-game-season guys, better winning percentage than all of them.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

By whose count?

 

Bart Starr - .900

Johnny U - .750

Tom Brady - .720
Joe Montana - .626

Otto Graham - .571

Peyton Manning - .476

[seanbrock 1,684]

I see what you're saying milehigh but I think Bart Starr could operate an offense in today's NFL and be just as great. Especially with athletes like Damaryius Thomas at his disposal. If they had all the benefits of coaching that has also evolved and training that has evolved as well.

[theMileHighGuy 656]

By whose count?

 

Bart Starr - .900

Johnny U - .750

Tom Brady - .720

Joe Montana - .626

Otto Graham - .571

Peyton Manning - .476

 

I was going off this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_wins_by_a_starting_quarterback_(NFL)

 

No way in hell Manning has a .47

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_starting_quarterback_playoff_records#Current_record_holders

Sorted by winning percentage, for me.

[theMileHighGuy 656]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_starting_quarterback_playoff_records#Current_record_holders

 

 

Sorted by winning percentage, for me.

 

Ah yeah, he would be sub .500 in the playoffs.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

I don't really buy into the whole great teams bail him out notion either. He was getting playoff byes with the cast of an NFL version of where are they now at WR, no running game, and no run defense. Hell, he came into the league just in time to have a HOF running back taken away from him and watch the guy win a super bowl with a bag boy from Home Depot.

Yeah, Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne suck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually they're 4th and 15th all-time, respectively (imo).

[AL_Royalty 489]

 

I don't really buy into the whole great teams bail him out notion either. He was getting playoff byes with the cast of an NFL version of where are they now at WR, no running game, and no run defense. Hell, he came into the league just in time to have a HOF running back taken away from him and watch the guy win a super bowl with a bag boy from Home Depot.

Yeah, Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne suck. :sigh:Actually they're 4th and 15th all-time, respectively (imo).

both guys were great, but that's not what talking about. Aside from the fact that they only briefly intersected (iirc), the rest of the stable was just bleh. Anthony Gonzalez, Brandon Stokely, Pierre Garcon, and those are the notable ones. Manning has been nothing short of great during his career. Wayne and Harrison benefited add much from making add making did from them. Ask Larry Fitzgerald what can happen to a great receiver if he's given a bad QB.

 

On a related note, I think you have overrated these guys, but I do understand how there could be a conversation so is like to have one. Personally, I can think of quite a few guys I'd put over each. Hell, I have aTE over both if we're just talking pass catchers. What's your list look like?

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Who put you up to this? I'm not giving out my draft board.

[AL_Royalty 489]

Who put you up to this? I'm not giving out my draft board.

what? O_o Ok, how about you pm them to me. I assure you that no-one put me up to anything.

[Bucman 891]

IIRC Colts D played great in the playoffs the year the won the SB. Manning has been throwing to good receivers his entire year. You talk about them trading away Faulk, but they did get a guy named Edgerrin James who was damn good, so he had a run game.

[AL_Royalty 489]

IIRC Colts D played great in the playoffs the year the won the SB. Manning has been throwing to good receivers his entire year. You talk about them trading away Faulk, but they did get a guy named Edgerrin James who was damn good, so he had a run game.

James?!? You can't be serious. He was nowhere near "damn good." He was just good at his best. The guy was mostly mediocre.

 

Yeah the Defense played very well the year the Colts won the SB, but name me a QB you've ever seen win a super bowl all by himself. I'll wait...

[Bucman 891]

 

IIRC Colts D played great in the playoffs the year the won the SB. Manning has been throwing to good receivers his entire year. You talk about them trading away Faulk, but they did get a guy named Edgerrin James who was damn good, so he had a run game.

James?!? You can't be serious. He was nowhere near "damn good." He was just good at his best. The guy was mostly mediocre.

 

Yeah the Defense played very well the year the Colts won the SB, but name me a QB you've ever seen win a super bowl all by himself. I'll wait...

 

Tom Brady 2005 season.

[AL_Royalty 489]

 

 

IIRC Colts D played great in the playoffs the year the won the SB. Manning has been throwing to good receivers his entire year. You talk about them trading away Faulk, but they did get a guy named Edgerrin James who was damn good, so he had a run game.

 

James?!? You can't be serious. He was nowhere near "damn good." He was just good at his best. The guy was mostly mediocre.

Yeah the Defense played very well the year the Colts won the SB, but name me a QB you've ever seen win a super bowl all by himself. I'll wait...

Tom Brady 2005 season.

Samsung phone: $99

 

1.75 litre bottle of Svedka: $22

 

Hawkman ing himself: priceless

[seanbrock 1,684]

It's kind retarded how some people can act like Peyton wasn't surrounded by talent his whole career. The Colts spent a lot of high draft picks protecting Peyton Manning and giving him weapons. I mean, a lot of these guys were first round talents and had great collegiate careers. You can't tell me Peyton made them. I mean, especially Wayne. The guy is just nothing but consistent. he had a couple good TE's and slot WR's. The Colts used 3 first round draft picks on RB's while Peyton was there. Tarik Glenn was a first round draft pick. Harrison and Wayne were first rounders. Edge James, Addai, and Brown

 

Now in Denver he plays with a first round draft pick at RB, first round and second round WR's and Welker, a pro bowler, who was brought in on a big contract in free agency.

 

Peyton would have been great wherever he was, but his teams have always invest as much as possible in order to provide him with what he needs to win and to his credit he chose the Broncos who had a lot of pieces in place for him to come in and immediately make them Super Bowl contenders. I've said it before Peyton changed the game and the position with what he can do pre-snap. He's one of the most cerebral players ever in any era. He's still a first ballot hall of famer imo and deservedly so, but to me he's not a top 5 guy all time, borderline top 10 more like it.

[AL_Royalty 489]

It's kind retarded how some people can act like Peyton wasn't surrounded by talent his whole career. The Colts spent a lot of high draft picks protecting Peyton Manning and giving him weapons. I mean, a lot of these guys were first round talents and had great collegiate careers. You can't tell me Peyton made them. I mean, especially Wayne. The guy is just nothing but consistent. he had a couple good TE's and slot WR's. The Colts used 3 first round draft picks on RB's while Peyton was there. Tarik Glenn was a first round draft pick. Harrison and Wayne were first rounders. Edge James, Addai, and Brown

 

Now in Denver he plays with a first round draft pick at RB, first round and second round WR's and Welker, a pro bowler, who was brought in on a big contract in free agency.

 

Peyton would have been great wherever he was, but his teams have always invest as much as possible in order to provide him with what he needs to win and to his credit he chose the Broncos who had a lot of pieces in place for him to come in and immediately make them Super Bowl contenders. I've said it before Peyton changed the game and the position with what he can do pre-snap. He's one of the most cerebral players ever in any era. He's still a first ballot hall of famer imo and deservedly so, but to me he's not a top 5 guy all time, borderline top 10 more like it.

 

news flash dude: every team is entitled to a first round pick every year. That's not an earth shattering revelation. Just because a guy plays well in college and gets picked 1-32 doesn't make him a great NFL player. If that were the case Jamarcus Russell would have led the raiders to a championship, Trent Richardson would be on his way to his third consecutive pro bowl, and Freddie Mitchell would be right on Jerry Rice's heals about now. You're entitled to your opinion , but when it's based on such a paper thin argument such as, "the Colts had first round picks," your sanity might come into question.

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

 

IIRC Colts D played great in the playoffs the year the won the SB. Manning has been throwing to good receivers his entire year. You talk about them trading away Faulk, but they did get a guy named Edgerrin James who was damn good, so he had a run game.

James?!? You can't be serious. He was nowhere near "damn good." He was just good at his best. The guy was mostly mediocre.

 

Yeah the Defense played very well the year the Colts won the SB, but name me a QB you've ever seen win a super bowl all by himself. I'll wait...

 

 

Edgerrin James was mostly mediocre?

 

Are you being serious right now, or are you just pulling shit out of your ass?

 

He ran for over 1,500 yards 4 times in his career in Indy, would have most likely made it 5 in 2003 if not for missing 3 games. Injury shortened seasons in 01 and 02 also kept him from eclipsing 1,000.

 

He was a top 5, if not better back year in and year out. I don't think you've ever watched a single game Edgerrin James played in Indy if you think he was mediocre. He was an elite RB.

[seanbrock 1,684]

 

It's kind retarded how some people can act like Peyton wasn't surrounded by talent his whole career. The Colts spent a lot of high draft picks protecting Peyton Manning and giving him weapons. I mean, a lot of these guys were first round talents and had great collegiate careers. You can't tell me Peyton made them. I mean, especially Wayne. The guy is just nothing but consistent. he had a couple good TE's and slot WR's. The Colts used 3 first round draft picks on RB's while Peyton was there. Tarik Glenn was a first round draft pick. Harrison and Wayne were first rounders. Edge James, Addai, and Brown

 

Now in Denver he plays with a first round draft pick at RB, first round and second round WR's and Welker, a pro bowler, who was brought in on a big contract in free agency.

 

Peyton would have been great wherever he was, but his teams have always invest as much as possible in order to provide him with what he needs to win and to his credit he chose the Broncos who had a lot of pieces in place for him to come in and immediately make them Super Bowl contenders. I've said it before Peyton changed the game and the position with what he can do pre-snap. He's one of the most cerebral players ever in any era. He's still a first ballot hall of famer imo and deservedly so, but to me he's not a top 5 guy all time, borderline top 10 more like it.

news flash dude: every team is entitled to a first round pick every year. That's not an earth shattering revelation. Just because a guy plays well in college and gets picked 1-32 doesn't make him a great NFL player. If that were the case Jamarcus Russell would have led the raiders to a championship, Trent Richardson would be on his way to his third consecutive pro bowl, and Freddie Mitchell would be right on Jerry Rice's heals about now. You're entitled to your opinion , but when it's based on such a paper thin argument such as, "the Colts had first round picks," your sanity might come into question.

 

Obviously some credit has to go to the Colts GM and their scouting staff for finding the right guys, but that's not the point I was making. Not all first rounders are hits (or any other acquisition), but a lot of the Colts were. The point I was making is that it's not as if Peyton was ever in a situation where he was playing without weapons. The Colts invested themselves heavily in making sure Peyton had a full compliment of weapons and a good line to protect him.

Edited January 15, 2014 by seanbrock

[Vin+ 3,121]

Dallas Clark in '03 was the last first rounder that the Colts hit on IMO, not counting Luck. (You could argue Joseph Addai, but eh. You certainly can't count Donald Brown...)

Edited January 15, 2014 by Vin

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Jerry Hughes is awesome... he just isn't playing in Indy anymore. Castonzo is also a nice tackle, IMO. I would go as far as saying elite, but more than serviceable. Joseph Addai was also a nice all-around type back, IMO. He was no Edge or Marshall Faulk.. but he played his role well, I felt. Eventually his work ethic, injury history and stuff caught up with him, but I wouldn't say the pick was a total miss.

Basically, I think saying Clark was the last good 1st round pick by Indy is a bit off-base.

[seanbrock 1,684]

Yeah but some of the picks they hit on are guys who played like a decade in Indy and were pro bowlers.