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oochymp

2014 NASCAR Season Discussion

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Yikes, this is the worst Nascar happening I have ever seen. He just got out of his car and starts recklessly running across the track. Hope to never see anything like this again. R.I.P.

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He is dead. And it believed Tony did it on purpose.

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I can't believe he'd hit someone on purpose, but if he did, lock him up for life.

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video's been pulled from youtube, but this also has one: Video: Tony Stewart Runs Over Driver During Confrontation, Killing Him

 

regardless of what the penal system decides to do to him I really hope NASCAR gives him a nice lengthy suspension, anyone know why Stewart keeps doing these little dirt track races? isn't that where he broke his leg last year? doesn't seem like anything good happens there

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I think he does it because he's actually a likable personality who's reinvented his image over the years. I think this ruins it for good, though.

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For the record, sprint car racing is probably more fun than NASCAR. It's a half mile track, usually, and it's often a dirt track, too. I don't know how any racer who'd done it some point could stay away for good.

Edited by BwareDWare94

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Elements of the Offense

Three elements must be satisfied in order for someone to be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter:

  1. Someone was killed as a result of act by the defendant.
  2. The act either was inherently dangerous to others or done with reckless disregard for human life.
  3. The defendant knew or should have known his or her conduct was a threat to the lives of others.

- See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/involuntary-manslaughter-overview.html#sthash.IwuC3V6g.dpuf

 

Just something to think about.

Edited by Sarge

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Sounds like involuntary manslaughter to me, at least.

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Elements of the Offense

Three elements must be satisfied in order for someone to be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter:

  1. Someone was killed as a result of act by the defendant.
  2. The act either was inherently dangerous to others or done with reckless disregard for human life.
  3. The defendant knew or should have known his or her conduct was a threat to the lives of others.

- See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/involuntary-manslaughter-overview.html#sthash.IwuC3V6g.dpuf

 

Just something to think about.

Unfortunately a lot of the legal questions get a bit fuzzy when you start talking about sports, if you think about it every boxing match could be a battery. Usually you have to demonstrate that the action was outside of the accepted activity of the sport, for example I think Albert Haynesworth probably could have been charged with battery for taking Andre Gurode's helmet off and stomping on his head. Having said that, if I were a prosecutor in that district I would have no trouble making the charge and trying the case

 

Stewart did withdraw from Watkins Glen today, which I think was really the only thing he could have done, I'd still like to see NASCAR suspend him for at least the rest of the season.

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It's hard to say because I am not a race car driver, but it looked as though Stewart revved up as he got closer to Ward. I also think Ward should have never walked out into the racetrack. Regardless of who is to blame, it's just sad that this could have been easily avoided IMO.

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The first car slowed down and pulled inside. Tony's car sped up and drove straight. Maybe he assumed that the guy would jump out of the way, but to me it looks clear that he had no intention of avoiding putting his car into the space where the guy was standing.

 

Watch the video in frame-by-frame. The only reason the tire kicks out is because the kid's under the wheel and being shot out at that point.

Looks like he was doing a sidways jump similar to this motion just as the car hit him and got his right leg that was still planted:
http://youtu.be/pIKBH4hvL6A?t=1m3s

After that he was on the ground and got caught in the wheel well and spit out on the track.


I don't think he meant to kill him, but I do think he drove straight at the kid and expected him to get out of the way in time and the kid was just a bit too slow.

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I don't think he did it on purpose, but Tony is a moron and this may end his career. After he broke his leg last year you'd think he would learn that risking his career for some fun dirt races is STUPID.

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I don't think Tony meant to do it at all. He saw the kid running at him and natural human instinct is to yank the wheel to the left and move away from the guy running at you. But the sprint cars are designed to fishtail to the right when turned left and Ward got run over. No intent in my eyes.

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Watch the video in frame-by-frame. The only reason the tire kicks out is because the kid's under the wheel and being shot out at that point.

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Given my last post I should probably point out that if the evidence shows that Tony intended to hit Ward then the consent argument based on the inherent danger of the sport goes out the window, there's no consent defense to murder

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I definitely think he meant to hit him... Was he sitting in the car saying to himself, "I am going to kill this bastard!" ? Doubtful. For those saying they hope to see him serve a lengthy suspension... If that's all this amounts to, it is going to be a sad day in sports.

Unless he is completely cleared of wrong doing, which would also be sad, I hope to see him banned from the sport. My fear is that somehow, someway, because Ward was being quite the idiot himself... They (officials, investigators, whomever) are going to somehow excuse or justify the actions and... Pretty much.. blame it on the victim.

Again, not saying that's how it will be played out.. Just a bad feeling I have on the situation.

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For those saying they hope to see him serve a lengthy suspension... If that's all this amounts to, it is going to be a sad day in sports.

 

I think I'm the only one who's mentioned a suspension so let me clarify, I'm just referring to immediately response and a bare minimum, I wouldn't be shocked if this ends up being a career ending incident when all is said and done, and that's not even touching the criminal implications Edited by oochymp

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@NASTYCAR 3m DA: No criminal charges planned against Stewart at this time; investigation ongoing.

 

 

BuskP55IYAE9Dvu.jpg

Edited by Sarge

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So, you're saying he didn't do it on purpose but should banned for life anyway? For what?

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I'm already sick of the Stewart vs Ward accident argument.

May Kevin Ward Jr rest in peace, and his family find the comfort they need.

Also may Tony Stewart find the comfort he needs to move on from this horrible accident.

People need to realize that Mr Ward shouldn't have been running down a dark track in a black fire suit towards oncoming cars. That's just not common sense.

People also need to realize that Sprint cars don't have the best sight lines, Stewart is not psychotic, and the motor you hear rev in the video was probably not his. The video was being shot across the track, and that rev was more likely from a car on the front straight. At the moment you hear that rev, the back of Stewart's car jerks to the left, not to the right. If he had gassed it, it would have went right because he was turning left.

However, Stewart shouldn't have been that high on the track either, unless he truly didn't know where the accident was, even though he should have been able to see it in his mirror on the previous lap.

 

There are only two people who will ever really know what happened, and one of them will never tell us. The other already told those who needed to know. The rest is all speculation.

Tony Stewart isn't psychotic and this wasn't a purposeful act. Bad judgement, absolutely, but intentionally hitting him? Absolutely not. This is an absolute tragedy.

 

If the police don't see any further reason to investigate, then we shouldn't either.

Let's all move on for now, and hopefully the silver lining in this will soon follow (be it new rules, more safety improvements, a new charity, what have you).

Until then, just let it go.

Edited by Rain Man
  • Upvote 2

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Also, anyone who believes after watching the video that the car kicked out because of Tony hitting the gas doesn't have much knowledge, if at all, about Sprint cars and how they react when you drive. Or even, how any high powered car reacts on the track when you hit the gas. That car was in no way reacting to Stewart hitting the throttle.

 

No malicious intent here.

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The "it was dark and he was wearing black!" argument holds no water. There was plenty of visibility and the first car slowed down well before reaching the kid and moved inside and went around him. There's literally no way that Stewart didn't see Ward or the other car slow down and drive around him.

 

Tony had ample time and could've easily followed the first car, but instead he drove straight and either expected not to hit the kid, or expected the kid to move in time.

  • Upvote 1

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I disagree, Zack. That argument holds plenty of water. These tracks are a quarter mile to a half mile long, at best. The turns are sharp as hell, banked, and slick. As the video shows, the track was very dimly lit. The communication systems rarely works at this tracks like this, so it's unlikely that each driver knew there was a caution until they saw the yellow flag coming into the home straightaway, therefore causing them to first slow down going into the first turn of the track, and the kid crashed out of turn 2. To clarify, these oval tracks have two straightaways and four turns--they consider each rounded end as two turns.

 

Anyway, the lighting is poor, the communication system likely wasn't working so they couldn't notify drivers on their headsets, there may not have been a way to see that there's a caution until the home straightaway.

 

This is all hypothetical without knowing anything about that track, but that's just how it seems to be at smaller tracks. My point is--there are so many ways this could have been an accident. These drivers were all still going very fast, drifting on turns one and two. They can't just veer to the left if they don't see the obstruction right away.

 

This is a tragedy, but it's definitely the fault of two individuals, and I'm hard pressed to give Tony Stewart the majority of the blame.

Edited by BwareDWare94
  • Upvote 1

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The "it was dark and he was wearing black!" argument holds no water. There was plenty of visibility and the first car slowed down well before reaching the kid and moved inside and went around him. There's literally no way that Stewart didn't see Ward or the other car slow down and drive around him.

 

Tony had ample time and could've easily followed the first car, but instead he drove straight and either expected not to hit the kid, or expected the kid to move in time.

 

I'm starting to believe a couple of things coming from your argument. One being that you haven't ever, or at least rarely ever watch dirt racing. Two, that you haven't been inside a race car before.

 

Tony Stewart was at the bottom of the race track. Pretty close to what they consider the forbidden zone because of how soft the clay gets near the bottom at Canandaigua (A track I've actually been to quite a few times). The problem is that Kevin walked down the track, way further than anyone would have ever anticipated to begin with. Several other drivers almost hit him before Stewart actually came around the turn. There's probably only a good 8-10 feet from the right of Tonys car to the bottom tire barriers, there was no room outside of Kevins car either. Kevin never should have been down that far. Just terrible.

 

Much more to believe Tony Stewart would hit him intentionally is asinine. He's been in much more heated confrontations in higher levels of racing, where something was actually on the line for him, and not intentionally tried to hit a driver giving him the business on the track.

 

The radio systems in these race cars aren't like the ones you are accustom to in NASCAR's top series. You rarely know that the yellow is out until you hit the start-finish line. Much more, sprint cars are unique and sensitive race cars. You're not going to stop a sprint car on a dime.

 

A sprint car is designed to swing the rear as you turn, him jerking the wheel or hitting the brakes/throttle to avoid Kevin probably would have ended in the same result. It's a tragedy that no one expected and it's terrible, but this wasn't a malicious act.

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