Top 10 QBs

[oochymp 2,393]

biggest thing to me for Brees is that he was the first QB since Marino to throw for 5000 yards and he did it without a 1000 yard receiver, his 2008 season is still the only time that's been done

 

and I'm still waiting to hear from F4E about how a top 10 QB couldn't take the starting job from Jay Cutler

[KempBolt 498]

Alex Smith could barely hit 60% completion and 6.5 YPA despite throwing short and between the numbers about as much as any QB in the league. He also only had to play five games against scoring defenses merely in the top sixteen, and he went 1-4 in those games (Indy twice, SD twice, and Tennessee). The lone win came against the 16th ranked Titans led by Ryan Fitzpatrick-- a game in which Smith played terrible and the defense scored 14 points for KC.

 

And it's funny that excuses are being made for him based on supporting cast when in the RB thread, there are pages upon pages about Jamaal Charles da gawd. Not to mention that the Chiefs 56M$ receiver had his worst season ever on a per game basis once Smith showed up in town. And that his supporting cast was asked to do more for the offense than all but maybe two others. Smith's average pass traveled in the air an average of 2.9 yds per attempt. 3rd lowest in the league (right in front of Bradford and Henne). Meaning that of all the starters in the league to play at least 8 games, Smith needed more help from his supporting cast than 30 other quarterbacks.

 

And there's also the problem that last year's utterly mediocre performance was the 2nd best of his 9 year career.

 

I love Alex Smith. May he live forever.

Edited July 7, 2014 by KempBolt

[Dutch 874]

All Alex Smith does is check down. It's hard to turn the ball over when all you do is check it down. 26.3% of Alex Smiths throws were behind the line of scrimmage. 51.7% of Smiths throws were within 10 yards lol... Smith's throws in the 11-20 yard range drops significantly to only 15.3% attempting only 78 times the ENTIRE season. So that's an average of only 5.2 attempts per game (15 games). Smith's throwing capabilities are very limited and he's being carried by a running game and a good defense. He's a one trick pony that just checks the ball down and doesn't turn the ball over. He's a game manager.

 

 

Well our eye test sees something different. At least to the degree of how we value players. I personally don't want a QB who is as limited as Alex Smith when it comes to throwing the ball. I want a guy that can be effective making plays all around the field including the intermediate and deep ball game. There is nothing special about dumping the ball off to your RB with him doing all of the work. Dump offs, screens, and passes to 10 yards is borderline managing and that is the height of his capabilities at this point. He doesn't turn the ball over much because of the passes he makes; high percentage throws close to the line of scrimmage. Let's put this more into perspective:

 

1835 of Alex Smith's passing yards were YAC yardage. That's a whopping 55.4% of his total yards (3313) that was because of receiving play makers on his team. 1478 yards were Smith's air yardage at the point of the catch which was 44.6% of his total throws. The telling stat is that Smith's air yardage is only 2.91 which is 3rd worst in the league only in front of Sam Braford at 2.86 and Chad Henne at 2.74. That's some pretty bad company and it proves that all Alex Smith did was dump the ball off and his receivers did all the work from there turning a 2 yard dump off to big gains. Like I've been saying, Alex Smith is a check down master. There's a low percentage of risk involved in those throws which protects him from throwing interceptions. So if not being confident or capable of throwing down the field and settling to dump it off is considering good decision making, then I guess we've seen all the Alex Smith has to offer. It's working fairly well though and it's not a knock off against him. I just wouldn't but him above other QBs who are asked to do and do so much more than just dump off the ball.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Dutch

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

biggest thing to me for Brees is that he was the first QB since Marino to throw for 5000 yards and he did it without a 1000 yard receiver, his 2008 season is still the only time that's been done

 

and I'm still waiting to hear from F4E about how a top 10 QB couldn't take the starting job from Jay Cutler

Because he's old and the Bears aren't in the business for a stop gap solution to their QB troubles. Where McCown could have given them maybe another year... POSSIBLY 2 of great QB play, they can have Jay there for 5ish years and be content with his substandard play. Jay Cutler was brought in many years ago to be the face of that franchise, the long term solution for the Bears at a position they haven't had stability at in 20+ years.

 

They've invested too much time and money in him to go back now and on top of it all... The embarrassment, would have been too much.

 

Make no doubt about it though, McCown destroyed Jay Cutler in every sense of the word. There was really no comparison between the two. But we all know the Bears have always overvalued Jay Cutler and the mediocrity he brings to the table. Even though it was a different regime, look at what they gave up for him. Ridiculous....

 

Let's not split hairs here.... Cutler is pretty close to pure hot garbage. Arguably one of the most overpaid and overrated players and QBs in the league today.

[Dutch 874]

Sorry. I can't anoint a player with only half a season of good production. He's never carried the full load of an entire season throughout his whole 12 year career. So therefore, he can't be ahead of guys who have been doing it for years. He doesn't have the resume to qualify for top ten status. It's really that simple to me. Trying to justify him a top 10 QB with only 8 games of substance just isn't a strong enough case. Sorry.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

It's well warranted skepticism. However, it was just too good of play to ignore. If he played just OK or slightly above expectations, I wouldn't be talking about him. Unfortunately, he blew the roof off it.

[Dutch 874]

8 games = top 10 status? That's just impractical. I guess the question is, what warrants a top 10 QB to you because your expectations seem to be extremely substandard.

[oochymp 2,393]

Because he's old and the Bears aren't in the business for a stop gap solution to their QB troubles. Where McCown could have given them maybe another year... POSSIBLY 2 of great QB play, they can have Jay there for 5ish years and be content with his substandard play. Jay Cutler was brought in many years ago to be the face of that franchise, the long term solution for the Bears at a position they haven't had stability at in 20+ years.

no team is going to trade 2 years of a top ten QB for five years of substandard QB play, two years in the NFL is an eternity, and both QBs were free agents this offseason, so the Bears easily could have let Cutler walk if McCown was the better option

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Alex Smith could barely hit 60% completion and 6.5 YPA despite throwing short and between the numbers about as much as any QB in the league. He also only had to play five games against scoring defenses merely in the top sixteen, and he went 1-4 in those games (Indy twice, SD twice, and Tennessee). The lone win came against the 16th ranked Titans led by Ryan Fitzpatrick-- a game in which Smith played terrible and the defense scored 14 points for KC.

 

And it's funny that excuses are being made for him based on supporting cast when in the RB thread, there are pages upon pages about Jamaal Charles da gawd. Not to mention that the Chiefs 56M$ receiver had his worst season ever on a per game basis once Smith showed up in town. And that his supporting cast was asked to do more for the offense than all but maybe two others. Smith's average pass traveled in the air an average of 2.9 yds per attempt. 3rd lowest in the league (right in front of Bradford and Henne). Meaning that of all the starters in the league to play at least 8 games, Smith needed more help from his supporting cast than 30 other quarterbacks.

 

And there's also the problem that last year's utterly mediocre performance was the 2nd best of his 9 year career.

 

I love Alex Smith. May he live forever.

 

I'm not defending Alex Smith, but, Jamaal Charles or not, he had one of the worst receiving groups in the NFL last year, and has arguably the worst this year.

[DJG 2]

My top 10..

 

1. Rodgers

2. Manning

3. Brady

4. Brees

5. Rivers

6. Newton

7. Wilson

8. Luck

9. Kaepernick

10.Rothlesberger

 

Rothlesberger was higher on this list but Rivers had a comeback year & Newton, Wilson, Luck, & Kaepernick all played to or played above their expectations from 2012.Big Ben had a year that was too inconsistent, he didn't seem to get going until late in the season.

Edited July 7, 2014 by DJG

[KempBolt 498]

I'm not defending Alex Smith, but, Jamaal Charles or not, he had one of the worst receiving groups in the NFL last year, and has arguably the worst this year.

 

Above avg quarterbacks makes their weapons look better, not worse. Smith doesn't have a lot to work with, but he's made his best option look worse than he's ever been.

 

Rivers beat the Chiefs throwing to Seyi Ajirotutu. In other words, he elevates the guys around him. Smith basically needs a perfect situation, or he's lousy.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

I'm not sure why everyone thinks that Dwayne Bowe is terrible. Bowe is easily one of those guys you think of when you're near the end of a top 10 list and you're trying to squeeze those "on the cusp" guys in but just can't find the heart to take someone out.

 

Bowes abysmal season last year, and the lack of ability by Alex Smith to get the ball to him just further showed why I hate guys like Alex Smith. Also, why I feel like he's so terrible. I don't care how accurate you are, if you can't use a big bodied receiver with playmaking ability like Bowe, there's an issue with your game or style. The fact he didn't see the ball only further buries Alex Smith on my QB list.

 

Basically what I'm getting at is that terrible GROUP or not at receiver, with a guy like Bowe he should have produced a little better than he had. How many times have we seen a below average quarterback look absolutely great because he's got one hell of a #1 receiver? That's not the case with Alex Smith. His stats are ridiculously inflated because he won't throw the ball if someone is marginally covered, and he won't go for the big plays. He's the ultimate check down and protection quarterback. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it doesn't earn you a spot in even the discussion of this thread.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

My top 10..

 

1. Rodgers

2. Manning

3. Brady

4. Brees

5. Rivers

6. Newton

7. Wilson

8. Luck

9. Kaepernick

10.Rothlesberger

 

Rothlesberger was higher on this list but Rivers had a comeback year & Newton, Wilson, Luck, & Kaepernick all played to or played above their expectations from 2012.Big Ben had a year that was too inconsistent, he didn't seem to get going until late in the season.

Ben was on a shitty, 8-8 team and put up better numbers than Brady last year. So why hasn't Brady dropped as well?

[DJG 2]

Ben was on a shitty, 8-8 team and put up better numbers than Brady last year. So why hasn't Brady dropped as well?

 

The Pats could of easily fell off & not made the playoffs due to the lack of talent on both sides of the ball (as well as injuries to key players). Brady willed that team with some great performances. Yes I realize statistically Big Ben had a better year but stats aren't everything. If that was the case Nick Foles & Tony Romo would be on this list.

Edited July 7, 2014 by DJG

[Turry 755]

JD still making a case for McCown .

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Above avg quarterbacks makes their weapons look better, not worse. Smith doesn't have a lot to work with, but he's made his best option look worse than he's ever been.

 

Rivers beat the Chiefs throwing to Seyi Ajirotutu. In other words, he elevates the guys around him. Smith basically needs a perfect situation, or he's lousy.

 

While I am not totally disagreeing with you about great players making those around them better, Dwayne Bowe is severely overrated in most discussions. He's been a major disappointment most of his career, IMO. He has the size and tools to be an elite WR but I think he lacks the attitude and fire to actually get there. He will never live up to the potential he has... Never.

 

JD still making a case for McCown .

Oochy called me out for killing the conversation and not responding to him. Terry calls me out for still talking about it.

 

Awesome. Lol.

[KempBolt 498]

Bowe came a heck of a lot closer to reaching his potential before Smith rolled into town.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Nah, I don't really put the onus of Dwayne Bowe's failures on Alex Smith or any other blah QB they have had in his tenure there. He could be better if HE wanted to be. Obviously QB play is part of the equation but it's a lot bigger than that in his case. In my opinion, anyway.

[KempBolt 498]

Nah, I don't really put the onus of Dwayne Bowe's failures on Alex Smith or any other blah QB they have had in his tenure there. He could be better if HE wanted to be. Obviously QB play is part of the equation but it's a lot bigger than that in his case. In my opinion, anyway.

That would be fair if Bowe had always been as unproductive as he was in 2013. I'm not saying the guy is an overachiever or anything, but he's always been more productive than he was with Smith. Three 1000 yd seasons to his name.

[Dutch 874]

Bowe came a heck of a lot closer to reaching his potential before Smith rolled into town.

 

So true.

 

Also, Kemp, read your PM's bro lol.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Dutch

[Dutch 874]

My top 10..

 

1. Rodgers

2. Manning

3. Brady

4. Brees

5. Rivers

6. Newton

7. Wilson

8. Luck

9. Kaepernick

10.Rothlesberger

 

Rothlesberger was higher on this list but Rivers had a comeback year & Newton, Wilson, Luck, & Kaepernick all played to or played above their expectations from 2012.Big Ben had a year that was too inconsistent, he didn't seem to get going until late in the season.

 

Nice list. The only question I have though is why you think Kaepernick is better than Big Ben? Kaepernick is a dynamic play maker no doubt. One of the most dangerous in the league (especially with his legs). As a passer though however, no way I could put him over Ben. Kap has too much talent at the receiver and TE positions to be as inconsistent as he was in the passing game.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Dutch

[BC 331]

I am not judging off "potential" or what guys MIGHT do. Screw that. Screw lists going off predictions or somethign that hasn't actually happened yet. I am looking at what HAS happened, and what DID happen. Cam, Russell, etc.. Don't belong in the same LEAGUE as Josh McCown...

 

And like I said.. I fully admit it might have been the biggest flash in the pan we have ever seen. Definite possibility.. but until then.. I see no reason to put anyone else above him.

 

Josh McCown QBing the Panthers takes them further than Cam does...EASILY. Wilson is obviously a harder sell, but the Hawks take care of the Niners a lot more easily.. He wouldn't give the game away 3x before the clock finally and mercifully hits zeroes.

 

There is literally no argument anyone could make in favor of Cam, Wilson, Kaep, etc on the terms of last year. If you want to win this debate you are going to have to go the...

 

"He only played 8 games, even if he was better, it won't last" route... Look, I am now giving you tips. Because as far as play goes, you aren't winning. lol.

 

You are absolutely killing me with your posts in this thread. Enough is enough man. Throwing the ball to Brandon Marshall, Alshon Jeffery, and Matt Forte is like shooting fish in a barrel. Of course he's going to look starter worthy. And any quarterback in the league would have had two or three turnovers in the NFC Championship this year. Josh McCown would have bent over and taken it up the year from Aldon and Justin Smith if he was our starting quarterback that day. Russell was able to work his broken play magic in the 2nd half and do just enough to get us past a dominant 49er defense that made our O-line look absolutely retarded.

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

1. Rodgers

2. Manning

3. Brady

4. Brees

5. Roethlisberger

6. Rivers

7. Ryan

8. Romo

9. Newton

10. Luck

[Cobresol 18]

Primed:

1. Rodgers

 

Aged, questionable in certain conditions/situations:

2-4. Brady/Brees/Manning... in acclimate weather or vs. a pass rush these vets are clearly vulnerable.

 

Last of his prime, finally getting help:

5. Roethlisberger... has fundamentally improved without a quality OL or RB since... 2007?

 

Heir apparents:

6/7. Luck/Wilson... both elevate their teams, make 'holy S!' plays and show abilities of past/former greats.

 

Cluster of flawed talents:

8-10. Ryan/Eli/Rivers... as of right now Rivers is probably the best of this trio. Eli is a pick machine, but his surrounding talent has faded since 2011. Ryan's Career is playing out like Carson Palmer's if he hadn't gotten his knee torn up.

 

Dalton and Flacco are probably about equal with Eli, but he has a longer track record of brilliant flashes. Eli would also probably play a whole lot better in Dalton/Flacco's situation (with better OLs, RBs and WR options).

 

Griffin/Kaepernick/Newton are on the cusp. This young trio has made too many mistakes to qualify as top-10 just yet. Individually...

 

RGIII's injury clearly hindered his development. He has the talent/makeup.

 

Kaep's surrounded by too much talent to get so much individual credit (Alex Smith led the 49ers to a NFCCG, too), plus his QB IQ is still a bit low. He has the arm/confidence that a top QB needs.

 

Newton is carrying the Panthers and probably deserves more credit. He's ridiculously toolsy, but needs help to become an undisputed top QB.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Cobresol

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Not 100% relevant... But who so this say more about... Alex Smith or Andrew Luck? Ew.

#Chiefs' Alex Smith: 308-508 (60.6), 3,313, 6.52/att, 23 TD, 7 int, 89.1 rating. #Colts Andrew Luck: 343-570 (60.2), 3,822, 6.71, 23/9, 87.0