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DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

Top 10 PGs

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I do this almost every year and it's decently successful, haha, I'll go through every list starting with the point guards.

 

Everyone is welcome to post their own rankings and we can do the whole debate thing. Derrick Rose will not be on my list for reason that probably don't need to be mentioned.

 

Guys who missed:

Isaiah Thomas

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20.3 ppg/ 2.9 TRB/ 6.3 AST/ 3.0 TOs/ 1.3 STLs

20.5 PER/ 57% TS/ 2.13 AST:TO/ 6.4 OWS/ 1.3 DWS

 

Why he’s not in the top 10:

Thomas is another in the long line of scoring point guards, and he’s got a multitude of ways of scoring led by his 3.7 free throw rate, and actually hitting his free throws. His 3 point shooting is a work in progress, but if he can improve that, he’ll be one of the best scoring guards in the NBA. His passing isn’t special right now, and playmaking isn’t that great, which is holding him back. Defensively he isn’t ever going to be confused for being great, but that has more to do with his height then anything else. He is a ball of energy.

 

Damian Lillard

fzX51A1.gif

 

20.7 ppg/ 3.5 TRB/ 5.6 AST/ 2.4 TOs/ .8 STLs

18.6 PER/ 57% TS/ 2.37 AST:TO/ 7.8 OWS/ 1.8 DWS

 

Why He’s not in the top 10:

This may come as a shock to some. The Trailblazers are the only team on the Western Conference outside of the Clippers that I root to do well, so I’ve seen plenty of Lillard. He’s going to be in a lot of people’s top 10s, but isn’t consistent enough for me just yet. And while the late game heroics are cool, being “clutch” means nothing to me in terms of ranking. Defensively he’s improved in every category in terms of iso plays, but his effort on transition plays have always been a concern and continue to be. He’ll probably be in the top 10 next year as he gets more and more into his role as the PG, but to me he isn’t right now.

 

10. Kyrie Irving

kyrie-irving-cavs.jpg

 

20.8 ppg/ 3.6 TRB/ 6.1 AST/ 2.7 TOV/ 1.5 STLs

20.1 PER/ 53 TS%/ 2.28 AST:TO/ 4.6 OWS/ 2.1 DWS

 

Why he’s in the top 10:

Scoring, Irving can be one of the most dynamite scorers in the league at times. He has arguably the best pullup jumper from anywhere on the court in the league. Amazing handles, and a pretty decent spot up jump shooter. He’s a pretty good passer, not great, but one can question how much of it has to do with not having many real targets to throw to.

 

Why he isn’t higher:

No real improvement as a passer. He has managed to cut down on the turnovers, which is always great but overall I’m not impressed. Despite his ability to be a great scorer at times, he’s extremely inconsistent due to his inability to always finish around the rim or at least get fouls. As a result his efficiency can be brutal at times. Defense is another story. He’s pretty decent as a on ball defender when he wants to be, but outside of that he doesn’t give much else. He gets caught off position a lot, gives up a lot of open jumpers, and has a defensive RPM of -3.38.

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No Lillard in the top 10? From a "running the point" perspective, I would have thought he'd be in there. Isn't he an assist machine? Probably a little bit of my low basketball IQ showing here, but oh well. I'm definitely interested to see your next 9.

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Gonna be interesting to see where Conley ends up...seeing as if he didn't make your "just missed" list, I'd assume he's on the top 10.

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No Lillard in the top 10? From a "running the point" perspective, I would have thought he'd be in there. Isn't he an assist machine? Probably a little bit of my low basketball IQ showing here, but oh well. I'm definitely interested to see your next 9.

 

He's never really been the kind to pile up the assists. He probably has a lot of hockey assists (I think they call it) because he's in an offense that includes a lot of passing. But for the most part, Lillard is a scoring point guard.

 

Gonna be interesting to see where Conley ends up...seeing as if he didn't make your "just missed" list, I'd assume he's on the top 10.

 

His spot might surprise a few people. Or, he might of missed the list all together. :ninja:

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One Sun on the list already... SHOW ME DRAGIC! :)

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One Sun on the list already... SHOW ME DRAGIC! :)

 

I'm about to put up the next batch, but... Dragic played more SG last year then PG, so he won't be on the list. But I promise to not disappoint. Haha.

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Eric Bledsoe though! SOMEBODY! ANYBODY!

I wanted 3/3.... Ha

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Wonder if DRose will make an appearance given all the injuries.

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Wonder if DRose will make an appearance given all the injuries.

He said he wasnt going to be on the list.

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He said he wasnt going to be on the list.

Just now noticed. Thanks :yep:

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9. Ty Lawson

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17.6 PPG/ 3.5 TRB/ 8.8 AST/ 3.2 TOs/ 1.6 STLs

19.0 PER/ 55% TS/ 2.72 AST: TO/ 4.8 OWS/ 1.5 DWS

 

Why he’s in the top 10:

Lawson is one of the better three point shooters among the top PGs, and is also one of the quickest. This along with his great passing skills open up the door for many plays and opportunities for his teammates. Despite all the changes that keep happening around him, he remains one of the better playmakers in the NBA among point guards with an assist rate at around 31. He also excels at scoring/passing out of the pick and roll. His role on the team increased with Iggy being shipped out, and he was still able to play a huge part in keeping the Nuggets relevant.

 

Why he isn’t higher:

Even though he’s 26, and is a great player, you almost get the impression that Lawson has peaked. Defense is his weakest area, and that should be expected with his height. Guards often just opt to pull and shoot over him, or take it in, being vertically challenged limits what he can bring to the table. Defense aside, Lawson is more of a jack of all trades, master of none (except maybe passing), and while that isn’t a bad thing, it does limit how high I can justify putting him.

 

8. Tony Parker

pay-per-head-tony-parker.jpg

 

16.7 PPG/ 2.3 TRB/ 5.7 AST/ 2.2 TOs/ .5 STLs

18.9 PER/ 55% TS/ 2.57 AST:TO/ 3.9 OWS/ 1.9 DWS

 

Why he’s in the top 10:

Let’s just get it out of the way, Tony Parker is a system PG. That’s not a bad thing by any means as every PG is in some kinda system, but there’s no doubt that the system makes him look a lot better then he may be. He runs the system better than almost any PG could run it, which speaks volumes to how good he is though. He’s improved his 3 point shooting to a great level to make up for not being able to get to the line or the paint as much as before. He is also a great facilitator, floor general, and great at operating the pick and roll. And while he may not be a great individual defender, he understands the defense better than anyone, and knows and plays his role on that defense.

 

Why he’s not higher:

This one is very subjective. With other guys I can argue numbers, but with Parker it’s simply just the case of, to me, he doesn’t pass the eye test as a guy who’s better than everyone else ahead of him. There’s nothing special about his game outside of his savviness, speed, and body control.

 

7. Eric Bledsoe

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17.7 PPG/ 4.7 TRB/ 5.5 AST/ 3.3 TOs/ 1.6 / 1.6 STLs

19.6 PER/ 58% TS/ 1.64 AST:TO/ 2.6 OWS/ 1.6 DWS

 

Why he’s in the top 10:

Here’s to trying to not write an essay about my man crush for the guy hailed as Mini-Lebron. At times he defines what it means to be a dynamic scorer, doing so from everywhere on the field. He was one of the most efficient PGs in the league last year (57% TS, 52% eFG) and has a knack for not only scoring in the paint, but getting to the FT line. Russell Westbrook had a free throw rate of .37 last year, Bledsoe had a free throw rate of .43. He has a very good jumper to pair up with his pull ups, he is effective from every area on the court, and is still improving. Defensively, Bledsoe is one of the best defensive PGs in the league. The Suns were 5.2 points better defensively with Bledsoe on the court. He had a defensive RPM (real plus minus) of 3.96. That’s better than Noah, Jordan, Ibaka, Hibbert, and 1.56 points higher than the second PG. His off ball defense is some of the best in the league. Pound for pound he is also one of the better rebounders in the league.

 

Why he isn’t higher:

Injuries is the first thing that comes to mind. Bledsoe can’t stay healthy, so we don’t know if he can maintain this level of play/potential that he’s shown for an entire season. The other glaring weakness in his game is his playmaking skills. Bledsoe had one of the worst assist ratios to turnovers in the league last year. He often struggles to see the whole court due to his aggressiveness, and he turns the ball over a ton. It’s painful to watch sometimes, it’s clear at this point that that is the area holding him back the most. At this point, Bledsoe is a 2 guard playing PG. But, he’s only 24, and is clearly still developing. Which makes this all the more hard because it becomes hard to develop as a player if you’re constantly on the bench due to injuries, Bledsoe has the potential to jump all the way to the top 4.

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I'm very interested to see if you have Kyle Lowry in here after his recent season. While I doubt it, because he's been inconsistent throughout his career, I would argue that Kyle Lowry, engaged and putting forth a full effort, is a top 10 point guard, as well as one of the most clutch players in the league.

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Speak of the devil...

 

6. Mike Conley

lat-mike-wre0012598366-20131120.jpg

18.5 PPG/ 3.1 TRB/ 6.5 AST/ 2.2 TOs/ 1.6 STLs

20.0 PER/ 55% TS/ 2.94 AST:TO/ 5.5 OWS/ 2.7 DWS

 

Why he’s in the top 10:

As his workload offensively has gone up, his efficiency has gone up with it. Which is the complete opposite of what usually happens. His shooting percentage has improved while he’s attempted more shots, and his turnovers have stayed down with an increase role as a passer. He’s shot better, getting more free throws, and getting more assists. He’s also arguably a top 5 guy on defense. While a lot of PGs struggle with defending the pick and roll, he thrives at it. Defense is half of basketball, and Conley has showed times and times again his prowess in that area. Great two way players are a scarce thing in the NBA, especially for point guard, and Conley is one of the few who is.

 

Why he isn’t higher:

While his assist numbers have gone up, and he’s playing in a better offense for his skills, he’s still not all that impressive as a passer. He is also a limited scorer. This isn’t really a bad thing, but the guys who are ahead of him would probably be much safer options as far as scoring is concerned.

 

5. Kyle Lowry

tumblr_n53i012xRw1rs5ngxo1_500.jpg

17.9 PPG/ 4.7 TRB/ 7.4 AST/ 2.5 TOs/ 1.5 STLs

20.1 PER/ 57% TS/ 3.02 AST:TO/8.4 OWS/ 3.3 DWS

 

Why he’s in the top 5:

The first thing that sticks out about Lowry is his ability as a passer. With Rudy Gay not eating up all the possessions for the Raptors, Lowry was able to lead the offense, and showed the ability to do so efficiently. He had one of the best AST:TOs of any PGs. He actually did a better job of holding on to the ball more this year despite having a bigger role. He will should never be a #1 option on an offense, but he has shown the ability to score, and it’s consistently getting better. He is a great 3 point shooter though, and a great rebounding point guard. Defensively Lowry is also very good. Like Conley, he’s a two way player.

 

Why he isn’t any higher:

Injuries aside, Lowry will always be plagued by inconsistencies. A lot of it offensively comes from taking too many mid-range jumpers instead of driving and trying to draw contact, or settling for a three. He does decide to play hero ball a little too often and that also gets him into trouble. With his height/weight/age I don’t think he’ll get much better then we saw last year. But he’s been playing like a top 10 point guard for a while, last year when Gay left, he showed the ability to lead the Raptors.

 

4. John Wall

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19.3 PPG/ 4.1 TRB/ 8.8 AST/ 3.6 TOs/ 1.8 STLs

19.5 PER/ 52% TS/ 2.44 AST:TOs/4.0 OWS/ 4.0 DWS

 

Why he’s in the top 5:

John Wall is an elite distributor, and elite finisher around the rim (among PGs). He’s nearly unstoppable at times when driving to the lane, and picks up fouls at a great rate. His three point shot is getting better and better, he shot 47% from the top right hand side of the 3 point line. And not just from the 3 point line, but from everywhere on the court, his jumper has looked better and better every year. He is also a great on ball defender. Which is more then what you can say about a vast majority of the PGs who are on this list. His ability to swat shots also gives him a lot of advantage over other PGs.

 

Why he isn’t higher:

His jump shot, while massively improved is still lacking a little as compared to the rest of the league. His mid-range jumper, especially, his shot chart from that area of the court is pretty ugly. Outside of that, the only thing holding back Wall are the occasional bad shooting games, and the tendency to try too hard at times to make plays for others leading to turnovers. Wall has had some games where he’s looked like one of the best players in the NBA. Some may argue that, as far as being a point guard is concerned (“pure point guard” as some people call it), Wall should be in the top 3, and possibly ahead of the guys who are probably #3 and 2 on this list. His scoring is the only thing holding him back at this point from reaching that status.

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Imma let you finish but...

 

Give me Mike Conley...who is an elite distributor, 3 pt shooter, free throw shooter, and can take it to the hoop when necessary over John Wall.

 

Wall's athleticism is off the charts, but his basketball IQ compared to Conley's is inferior, and his 3 pt game is non existent.

 

A PG that can stretch the floor with his range, and also be a serviceable driver is more valuable to me than another athlete who happens to be able to shoot the ball. Sometimes.

 

Have been quiet until now but had to say something :D

 

Good work so far though.

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So Rondo, WestBrook and CP3 are the top 3? Id imagine ud have Westbrook at #3, Rondo at #2 and CP3 at #1. Also i too would take Wall over Conley. Wall's shot is the only thing that holds him back. Where do u have MCW on your list? I know it was his first year but is he top 15?

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No way is Rondo there over Steph Curry :rofl:

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No way is Rondo there over Steph Curry :rofl:

I forgot about Curry. But as a PG Rondo is better then Curry in everything but shooting. So id say Rondo is the better PG.

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I forgot about Curry. But as a PG Rondo is better then Curry in everything but shooting. So id say Rondo is the better PG.

If Rondo isn't on here yet, he won't be on here over Curry :yep: IMO Curry comes #2 or #3 and CP3 is a #1 lock.

 

Curry had a 61% true shooting percentage, bro. That's not debatable. Curry is one of the greatest shooters ever already. Rondo is an injury-plagued star PG. Give me Curry every day. :shrug: Plus Rondo hasn't played over 2000 minutes for 3 straight years.

Edited by Chernobyl426

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So Rondo, WestBrook and CP3 are the top 3? Id imagine ud have Westbrook at #3, Rondo at #2 and CP3 at #1. Also i too would take Wall over Conley. Wall's shot is the only thing that holds him back. Where do u have MCW on your list? I know it was his first year but is he top 15?

 

I got MCW at 16 when I put the list together. He was inconsistent after that first month, but I still liked what I saw. Considering the fact he was playing with what I think could pass off as D-Leaguers last year, I think he did great.

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If Rondo isn't on here yet, he won't be on here over Curry :yep: IMO Curry comes #2 or #3 and CP3 is a #1 lock.

Curry had a 61% true shooting percentage, bro. That's not debatable. Curry is one of the greatest shooters ever already. Rondo is an injury-plagued star PG. Give me Curry every day. :shrug: Plus Rondo hasn't played over 2000 minutes for 3 straight years.

Were talking about overall though. Shooting doesnt qualify by itself to being better. The injuries Rondo has suffered i will give u maybe put him off the list. Like Rose.

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Rondo didn't make the list because he didn't play at least half the season. The games he had to go off weren't enough for me personally. Although, fwiw, the last time I put together a PG list, Rondo was somewhere between 5 and 8. He's easily one of the best distributors in the game, and his defense is right up there as well.

 

But he gives you so little offensively outside of his passing, that it makes it hard for me to justify putting him higher. It'd be one thing if it was just, one aspect of his scoring that was bad... But, not being able to shoot from almost anywhere, including the FT line is a dealbreaker for me.

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3. Russell Westbrook

Russell-Westbrook-injury-OKC.jpg

21.8 PPG/ 5.7 TRB/ 6.9 AST/ 3.8 TOs/ 1.9 STLs

24.7 PER/ 55% TS/ 1.80 AST:TOs/ 1.6 OWS/ .9 DWS

 

Why he’s in the top 3:

Scoring the ball is a gift Westbrook seems to of been born with. Ridiculous athleticism and strength to finish on the inside, tenacity, and a jumper that keeps improving. His shot chart shows a guy who has gotten better across the board from the midrange area. Probably the best rebounding guard in the NBA. There are many times where you see him competing with far bigger guys for rebounds, and winning. He has one of the highest offensive ratings per seasons every year, which speaks volumes to how much he is capable with the ball in his hands. And the biggest aspect of his game that often times gets ignored is how much OKC and even Durant need his aggressive playing style. When Westbrook is in the game he automatically draws all the attention, and teams work to keep him out of the paint, drawing easy looks for his teammates. Players who can alter entire defensive gameplans are few and far in between. Defensively he fits the stereotype of a gambler for the passing lanes. Often times he’s allowed to get away with it, due to his athleticism, but we’ve all seen him make those dynamic plays in the lane that only he can make.

 

Why he isn’t higher:

His playoff performance was almost enough to get him the #2 spot, averaging almost a triple double. The biggest issue with Westbrook however continues to be for the most part, between the ears. There are times when his aggressiveness hurts the team, we all know about those moments. And frankly, there’s no need to go any deeper. And then there’s the playmaking. The good news is that he continues to improve as a distributor. He’s finding the open guy better every year, and is learning to share the ball better. But as he’s gotten better with the passing, he’s gotten worse with the turnovers, they are popping up more often. His 1.8 AST:TOs ratio in the regular season and .04 better in the playoffs is brutal. Should Westbrook improve on the turnovers, and shot selection, he has the potential to leapfrog everyone in the NBA, including Durant himself.

 

Stephen Curry

stephencurry0429.jpg

24.0 PPG/ 3.7 TRB/ 8.5 AST/ 2.5 TOs/ 1.6 STLs

24.1 PER/ 61% TS/ 2.27 AST:TOs/ 9.3 OWS/ 4.0 DWS

 

Why he’s in the top 3:

Curry is already on pace to being the greatest shooter of all time. Not much more needs to be said then that. His shot chart is green all over, and he’s shooting over 40% from everywhere on the 3 point outside of the left corner. Despite taking a ton of jumpers, and not going to the free throw all that much, he still has a ridiculous 61% TS. Curry is also developing as a distributor. He’s being smarter/ more creative with his passes, and has developed especially a deadly bounce pass and kicking to his teammates out of the double team and the drive. While a lot of guys on this list make a living out of driving and dishing, Curry's abilities as a shooter is enough in of itself to help others, now it's just a matter of finding them. Regardless, averaging 8.5 assists is still a pretty big deal. He’s never going to be a great defensive player, but he’s been forced to actually show up on defense under Mark Jackson, and he has improved greatly. Especially with defending the pick and roll.

 

Why he isn’t higher:

Many people still question his playmaking ability. They are getting better every year, but you do wonder how much of that has to do with the fact that he is the point guard, and has the ball in his hands all the time, and how much of it has to do with his maturity. He was among the league leaders in usage, and had the ball a lot. That in of itself helps him get assists. Curry, despite how great he’s become is still developing as a point guard. He’s learning how to use his mind and creativity to make up for any physical limitations he may have.

 

Chris Paul

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19.1 PPG/ 4.3 TRB/ 10.7 AST/ 2.3 TOs/ 2.5 STLs

25.9 PER/ 58% TS/ 4.57 AST:TOs/ 9.0 OWS/ 3.2 DWS

 

Why he’s the best:

To me, there’s a pretty significant gap between Paul and the rest of the guys. He does everything you could ask for from a PG, and he does them all great. He isn’t a score first guy, but he can take a lot of shots and shoulder a heavy amount of the scoring without his efficiency taking a dip. He is probably the best playmaker in the league today, and will probably go down as one of the best playmakers in the history of the league. Defensively he is one of the premier PGs in the NBA. He isn’t perfect, but his IQ on that side of the ball, awareness, tenacity, quick hands, and his ability to jump/ take away lanes are only matched by few.

 

Where he flops:

People will forever question just how good he is really because he has never led a team to the highest stage in basketball. Not sure how much blame for that he deserves, but there are occasions however few and far in between where he’s chocked. Defensively we have also seen him get beat by bigger, quicker guards. But honestly, accolades aside, CP3 could make an argument for being the greatest point guard of all time when it’s all said and done.

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I too would take Conley and Lowry over Wall. While John Wall is the kind of player who has potential to become the league's best at his position, I feel that his game isn't refined enough, yet. The Pacers were daring him to shoot throughout that entire series, and he just seemed to launch one brick after another.

 

I think he'll be closer to the top in 2-3 years as his shot develops.

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The only thing and I seriously mean the ONLY thing I disagree with is putting Curry over Westbrook. But even that is a close call for me. I'm obviously biased but I'd take Wall over Conley, maybe not Lowry though. My big thing with Lowry is that he may have been overachieving or a bit more ambitious than he usually is because of this past season being his contract year.

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