Top 10 SG

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

This one was a little more challenging to do just because there were guys I couldn't believe I was ranking where I was ranking them.

 

Anyway, same with the PG thread, if you have a ranking, don't hesitate to put it up, etc. Like Rose wasn't on the PG list, Kobe didn't make this one either. Only reason being that he didn't play at least half the season.

 

Outside looking in:

 

12. Jamal Crawford

18.6 PPG/ 2.3 TRB/ 3.2 AST/ 2.0 TOs/ .9 STLs

17.3 PER/ 57% TS/ 49% eFG

 

Crawford has made a career out of his dribbling. The great/flashy handles allow him to create space for his shot better than a lot of players, both out on the perimeter and taking inside and finishing among the trees. You’d think a guy who takes as many jumpers as he does would be extremely inefficient, but the deadly pullup jumper and the great mid-range game makes him a threat to score from everywhere. Scoring is really all he gives you though. He’s the type of guy you have to hide on defense, and he really doesn't do much as a passer.

 

11. Bradley Beal

17.1 PER/ 3.7 TRB/ 3.3 AST/ 1.8 TOs

14.3 PER/ 51% TS/ 48% eFG

 

Bradley Beal has a textbook jumper. It’s taken him a bit to hone in that stroke, but we are seeing more and more why teams were raving over him going into the draft. That three point jumper especially is looking more and more potent. And while that’s great, he’s still very much a project. He needs to add more diversity to his game, and become more well-rounded as a scorer. Even his passing which looked a lot better last year is still coming along. He’ll be in the top 10 next year baring a huge step back, but for the time being, he barely missed it.

 

10. Aaron Afflalo
18.2 PPG/ 3.6 TRB/ 3.4 AST/ 2.0 TOs/ .5 STLs

16.0 PER/ 57% TS/ 52% eFG

 

Why he’s not in the top 10:

I’ll start by explaining why he isn’t higher, he started off the season hot, and then cooled down as the season progressed. Was inconsistent towards the end, and you could tell he was coasting at times. Defensively he could also use a lot of work. He’s great at what he does offensively, but he needs to round out his game a bit more.

 

Why he is in the top 10:

 

[blotsfan 2,112]

Shooting guard is a train wreck in the NBA. James Harden doesn't play an ounce of defense, and there is no reasonable case you could make that he isn't the best.

[Cherry 1,302]

Harden better not be #1. Dude is a star offensively but his defense is painful to watch. Jimmy Butler better be top 5 too.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Shooting guard is a train wreck in the NBA. James Harden doesn't play an ounce of defense, and there is no reasonable case you could make that he isn't the best.

 

Yea, it's brutal. I wanted to stop after 1. Haha.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Harden better not be #1. Dude is a star offensively but his defense is painful to watch. Jimmy Butler better be top 5 too.

 

Even as a Rockets fan, I want to agree with you, but there's nobody better.

 

Every guy who plays defense is limited offensively in comparison to Harden. There's really no superstar power at the 2 position, outside of Harden. Wade would be right there if he could play 82 + playoffs but he just can't anymore.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Hey guys... Make a list! And stuff.

[BJORN 679]

Harden better not be #1. Dude is a star offensively but his defense is painful to watch. Jimmy Butler better be top 5 too.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

9. Monta Ellis

19.0 PPG/ 3.6 TRB/ 5.7 AST/ 3.2 TOs

16.8 PER/ 53% TS/ 48% eFG

 

Why he’s in the top 10:

At one point Monta Ellis was just a volume scorer, but he has vastly improved since by going to the paint and scoring closer to the basket. Every part of his offensive game has improved since moving to the Mavs. He’s shooting better from everywhere on the court. Among shooting guards, Ellis is probably one of the best distributors, and has been for some time.

 

Why he isn't higher:

Defense, and turnovers! He gets a lot of assists, so the turnovers aren’t all that bad, but like Wall, he has the tendency to occasionally try too hard leading to turnovers, that and he dribbles too much. Defensively, he’s improved- but he’s the definition of a gambler on defense. He tries to go for the steal too often leaving him exposed to a lot of drives to the basket, and open shots. There was a point last season where the Mavs were giving up almost 6 points less per 100 possessions with him off the floor then on it.

 

8. Jimmy Butler

13.1 PPG/ 4.9 TRB/ 2.6 AST/ 1.5 TOs/ 1.9 STLs

13.5 PER/ 52% TS/ 45% eFG

 

Why he’s in the top 10:

For starters, for a guy who doesn't give you much offensively, he knows how to get to the foul line, and finish at the FT line, he has a free throw rate of .48, that’s extremely impressive. That’s a huge bonus, because even though he’s only giving you 13 points a game, he’s doing so efficiently. And then there’s the defense, he had the highest defensive rating of any guard, and was ranked 8^th in the league for defensive win shares, when it comes to giving up points Butler tends to be one of the stingiest. Only a handful of players in the league are blessed with a better combination of physical tools and the mental to play lockdown defense.

 

Why he isn’t higher:

Jimmy Butler’s season high in points sits at 23, and he managed to get more than 5 assists 6 times last year. Offensively speaking he doesn’t give much outside of the occasional aforementioned. He showed a lot of promise two years ago from the three, but this past season he took a huge step back. A lot of that can probably be attributed to injuries, but we’ll see. His mid-range game is improving, from virtually every side, and going forward, that’s very promising, but it’s still an extremely weak part of his game. The good news is that he is extremely young, and still developing. Defense is half of basketball, and some will argue that his defense in this weak SG period should be enough to warrant him being higher, but not being able to generate much offense for himself and for others to me drops him.

 

7. Manu Ginobilli

12.3 PPG/ 3.0 TRB/ 4.3 AST/ 1.0 STLs

20.0 PER/ 59% TS/ 54% eFG/

 

Why he’s in the top 10:

Even at his age, Ginobilli is able to score points because of eurostep, creativity, and offensive awareness/IQ. He scores his points efficiently, and even when he needs to score more than normal, it doesn’t hurt it. To go along with being a scoring threat, he is still arguably a top 10 playmaking guy. He sees the game develop better than most, and is able to make a flurry of passes that others wouldn’t be able to.

 

Why he isn’t higher:

Tends to be a liability on the defense side of the ball, mostly due to his age. And speaking of his age, he is way past his prime, and still very good, but his numbers would probably be a little ugly if he had to play more and didn’t receive the amount of rest he gets during the season, and even during games.

[Cherry 1,302]

See: Unlike many SG, he actually plays some defense

 

He had a down year but he is probably #4 or #5 IMO.

[BJORN 679]

See: Unlike many SG, he actually plays some defense

 

He had a down year but he is probably #4 or #5 IMO.

Beal torched him in the playoffs especially down the stretch.

Edited July 30, 2014 by BJORN

[Cherry 1,302]

Beal torched him in the playoffs especially down the stretch.

Let's take 5 games and put them against a full season. Did Beal do better than Butler in the playoffs? Yes. Is Butler worthy of being so low based on the playoffs? No.

 

To quote Dmac "he had the highest defensive rating of any guard, and was ranked 8^th in the league for defensive win shares" That should have him much higher than #8.

[blotsfan 2,112]

Cernobyl, I'm more interested in who you think is #1 if not Harden.

[Cherry 1,302]

This really depends on how you look at it because I can consider many combo guards and guard-forwards.

 

If I'm going strictly shooting guards

 

 

1. Beal (I value defense. Harden plays none. Can Harden outscore Beal? Yes. Can Harden defend anyone? No.)

2. Harden (Healthy Wade would take this)

3. Wade

4. Thompson

5. Jimmy Butler
6. DeMar DeRozan

7. Monta Ellis

8. Victor Oladipo

9. Joe Johnson

10. Jamal Crawford

 

Best of the rest: Arron Affalo, Eric Gordon, Kobe Bryant(Top 3 if he is healthy), OJ Mayo, J.R. Smith(If he would get his shit right he'd be top 10)

 

 

Including Combos and Guard-Forwards

 

1. Paul George

2. Eric Bledsoe

3. Bradley Beal

4. James Harden

5. Nicolas Batum

6. Dwayne Wade

7. Klay Thompson

8. Jimmy Butler

9. DeMar DeRozan

10. Monta Ellis

 

 

Yes I am that high on Beal.

 

If Butler returns to his previous form I think he has the potential to be #1 right now. There are few good SGs out there. Can't believe Beal is as low as he is on here anyways

Edited July 30, 2014 by Chernobyl426

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

Kobe still number 1. He will show it this year. I get hes off the list due to injuries but he was ballin out before hand. He may not be as good as a defender as he once was, but he still plays better D then Harden. And id take Kobe over Hardens offense still. Just me though.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

This really depends on how you look at it because I can consider many combo guards and guard-forwards.

 

If I'm going strictly shooting guards

 

 

1. Beal (I value defense. Harden plays none. Can Harden outscore Beal? Yes. Can Harden defend anyone? No.)

2. Harden (Healthy Wade would take this)

3. Wade

4. Thompson

5. Jimmy Butler

6. DeMar DeRozan

7. Monta Ellis

8. Victor Oladipo

9. Joe Johnson

10. Jamal Crawford

 

Best of the rest: Arron Affalo, Eric Gordon, Kobe Bryant(Top 3 if he is healthy), OJ Mayo, J.R. Smith(If he would get his shit right he'd be top 10)

 

 

Including Combos and Guard-Forwards

 

1. Paul George

2. Eric Bledsoe

3. Bradley Beal

4. James Harden

5. Nicolas Batum

6. Dwayne Wade

7. Klay Thompson

8. Jimmy Butler

9. DeMar DeRozan

10. Monta Ellis

 

 

Yes I am that high on Beal.

 

If Butler returns to his previous form I think he has the potential to be #1 right now. There are few good SGs out there. Can't believe Beal is as low as he is on here anyways

 

You got a lot of younger guys really high on your list. Is that based on potential or how you think they'll do this upcoming year? Or are you that high on them right now.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

6. Lance Stephenson

13.8 PPG/ 7.2 TRB/ 4.6 AST/ 2.7 TOs

14.7 PER/ 56% TS/ 54% eFG

 

Why he’s in the top 10:

I often dog Stephenson as being offensively challenged, but it’s an exaggeration as his offense continues to improve with every year. His jumper is about average, which is a lot better than it was when he came in. His biggest asset on offense is how violent and aggressive he can be, this forces the defense to pay attention to him at all times. He is also improving as a distributor. On the defensive side, he tends to be a little bit overrated. He is a great defender, doesn’t give up a lot of points, but most of that is because of the team he plays on and the great help defense around him. Where he makes his mark on defense is his aggressions, and being able to do the dirty work.

 

Why he’s not higher:

He is at best, a mediocre jump shooter, and tends to be too aggressive, Westbrook level aggressive which ends up hurting the offense/ team because he isn’t that talented physically, or that good around the basket. Offensively there are times where he holds the offense back and stalls the team with his iso ball. He also turns the ball over a lot, which is problematic because he doesn’t make up for it with an equal amount of plays for others on offense.

 

5. Klay Thompson

18.4 PPG/ 3.1 TRB/ 2.2 AST/ 1.7 TOs

14.3 PER/ 56% TS/ 53% eFG

 

Why he’s in the top 10:

The first and most obvious thing that sticks out about Thompson is his shooting. Offensively Thompson is the kinda guy you want as a shooting guard because he opens up a lot of space. And we all know he is a good shooter, but what a lot of people don’t know is that Thompson is a two way player. He’s a big guy for a SG with a great reach and underrated athletic ability. A great on and off ball defender. Thompson is the guy called upon to handle the tough assignment of handling the quicker guards in the NBA. His defensive RPM is negative, but this is one of the few cases where I disagree with the numbers. His value on defense was apparent when he fouled out against the Spurs, and Parker turned around to help lead the Spurs who were down by 10+ points.

 

Why he’s not higher:

His game could use a little more versatility. He’s one of the best in the league at what he does, but being a shooter means that he will have bad games on occasion, like the playoffs this past year. He’s also not a good passer, that’s a work in progress. He’s still developing as a player, and the Warriors would be smart to not trade him away.

 

4. Demar Derozan

22.7 PPG/ 4.3 TRB/ 4.0 AST/ 2.2 TOs

18.2 PER/ 53% TS/ 45% eFG

 

Why he’s in the top 10:

He’s got an attacker’s mentality, which helps him get to the foul line, and get a lot of easy shots around the basket. His jumper is improving and it’s becoming a more reliable part of his game. Like with Lowry, when Gay left, Derozan was allowed to carry a bigger load of the ball handling and has shown more skills as a distributor. Despite his somewhat inefficiency at times, his offense was extremely valuable to the Raptors. In the same way as Westbrook is for the Thunder. Defensively, Derozan is great at using his athleticism to his advantage, excelling as an iso defender.

 

Why he’s not higher:

Like a lot of guys on this list, he’s young, and still developing. Offensively, he is extremely inconsistent, and that stems from his jumper still being a work in progress. Anybody who knows me knows that I’m a sucker for efficiency, and a hater for the inefficient, and DeRozan can be extremely inefficient. He’s great at picking up fouls when he’s taking it to the hole, but often times he takes too many jumpers. Good news though is that he has improved his jumper every year. He also turns the ball over a lot for a guy who isn’t the primary ball carrier. Similar to Lance, over-dribbling, and stalling the offense.

[Cherry 1,302]

I completely forgot about Lance Stephenson. I'd probably have him somewhere around 4 or 5 on my list. Don't know how I managed to forget about him. And I have a lot of the younger guys higher on my list based on how I think they are gonna do next year. They aren't as established but they are way more talented than a lot of the older guys.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Bradley Beal over James Harden. Man oh man, now I've seen everything.

 

James Harden, putting forth an effort, is actually a pretty good defender. Unfortunately, he seems to put forth an effort only when he's forced to. He actually played a little D against Portland after he was criticized after early games. He still fucked up game 6, unfortunately, but you can't just turn something on after not using it for ages and expect it go without any glitches.

Bad practices become bad habits. If James Harden simply performs good practices, he can turn them back into good habits. If James Harden becomes a marginal defender, there's no question he's #1.

 

And there's no question he's #1 now, either. I'm sorry, Chernobyl, but you done fucked up on your list.

 

Quick Edit: Great list, DMac. Shooting guard is a hard position to assess, in today's NBA.

Edited July 31, 2014 by BwareDWare94

[Phins4life 271]

That Crawford gif is nasty. Just sayin'. Nice list D-Mac. Unfortunately I still know very little about the NBA's elite, so my input is limited. Glad to see Ginobili in there. Even at his age he still pulls off what is asked of him, and sometimes even more.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

I never agree with any top 10 list, and for SG's in the NBA....it's a real clusterfuck

 

But I'd have to say this is one of the best top 10 lists I've ever seen. The reasoning, the stats, the effort put forth in making this list is great.

 

The only thing I'd change is...I love Jimmy Butler. I truly do, but his offensive game is still very raw and weak. I know the potential is there...I just think some of you are going a little crazy on him too early.

 

Give the young blood time, he'll get there...but he's not a top 3 SG yet. IMO.

[Cherry 1,302]

Of course Harden would be #1 if he played defense. Only thing? He doesn't. I'll take a great defender with an average offensive game over a great offensive player with no defensive game.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I never agree with any top 10 list, and for SG's in the NBA....it's a real clusterfuck

 

But I'd have to say this is one of the best top 10 lists I've ever seen. The reasoning, the stats, the effort put forth in making this list is great.

 

The only thing I'd change is...I love Jimmy Butler. I truly do, but his offensive game is still very raw and weak. I know the potential is there...I just think some of you are going a little crazy on him too early.

 

Give the young blood time, he'll get there...but he's not a top 3 SG yet. IMO.

 

Wait till you see the top 3, it might cause any compliment this list has been thrown to fly out the window. Haha.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Of course Harden would be #1 if he played defense. Only thing? He doesn't. I'll take a great defender with an average offensive game over a great offensive player with no defensive game.

 

I think this is a fair thing to say. My only issue with the line of thinking though is that while a two way player is always better then a one way guy, the amount of impact a perimeter defender can have on a team's success pales in comparison to the amount of impact a perimeter offensive player can have on a team's success.

 

If I had to chose between the two extremes, at least as far as guards are concerned, I'd take the offensive guy, because one great offensive perimeter player can carry a team. The same can't be said vise versa. Although I guess it also depends on how much you value team impact vs. individual numbers, etc.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

 

Wait till you see the top 3, it might cause any compliment this list has been thrown to fly out the window. Haha.