DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted August 7, 2014 This was brutal because guys should be higher, but they aren't because the position is loaded. Probably the most loaded in the NBA. A lot of guys in the top 10 would probably near the top if I was to do an overall NBA list. Anyway, you're welcome to do a list, etc. 12. Serge Ibaka 15.1 PPG/ 8.8 TRB/ 1.0 AST/ 1.5 TOs/ 2.7 BPG/ 19.6 PER/ 58% TS/ 15.5 REBR/ 10.0 ORR/ 19.6 DRR Why he’s not in the top 10: He may never be a great offensive player, but he’s become a pretty good pick and roll big man because of his jumper. He’s extremely dangerous from the midrange area, and continuing to improve. Defensively, he went from being a guy who just racked up a lot of blocks to a real rim protector. He gave up a 46% field goal percentage at the rim, and was one of the biggest reasons why OKC was 7th in the league in opponent field goal percentage at the rim. He’d be in the top 10 if the top 10 wasn’t so cramped as it is with combo forwards who played a majority of time as PFs. He still has issues with proper rotation, and not getting caught out of position. Offensively, he’s still very limited as well. 11. David Lee 18.2 PPG/ 9.3 TRB/ 2.1 AST/ 2.2 TOs/ 2.2 BPG 19.1 PER/ 57% TS/ 15.3 REBR/ 8.8 ORR/ 21.6 DRR Why he’s not in the top 10: David Lee is a great scorer inside mostly due to being extremely crafty and having a pretty decent touch. He gets his multiple ways in the paint, from working with his back to the basket, to taking jumpers. And don’t let his assist numbers from this year fool you, he’s normally within the top 10 among PFs in terms of assist rate, smart with the ball, and doesn’t turn the ball over for the most part. He does a pretty decent job of using his body to get the ball on rebounds, he’s not elite, but pretty good. His defense is terrible though, and that in of itself is enough to hold him outa the top 10. 10. Zach Randolph 17.4 PPG/ 10.1 TRB/ 2.4 AST/ 2.3 TOs/ .3 BPG 18.3 PER/ 51% TS/ 17.4 REBR/ 11.6 ORR/ 23.3 DRR Why he’s in the top 10: Randolph is one of the few old school big men who are capable of playing with his back to the basket. He has the ability to beat a lot of guys down low because not many know how to play against him. He can also be a dominant rebounder, gets his by being relentless and gaining position quick. Why he isn't higher: He isn't higher because he can be pretty bad on defense at times. He can be extremely inefficient at times as a scorer, and he turns the ball over a lot at times. Those drop him for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BwareDWare94 723 Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) This would be a difficult position to rank, especially considering you've got both Bron and Melo coming when they're not traditional 4s. Factoring in traditional duties of a the 4, I'd have a 1b of Blake Griffin next to LeBron, though obviously LeBron's the better player. Difficult rankings. I'm excited to see what you've come up with. If I might ask, if you were to rate Terrance Jones, would he make it into the top 15 or 20? Edited August 8, 2014 by BwareDWare94 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted August 8, 2014 As I accudentally posted in the other thread, my top 5 are: LeBron Griffin, Melo, Love, Davis And now I realized that I completely forgot LaMarcus Aldrige exists. And I have no idea where id put him. Not to mention id be pretty surprised if Davis isn't second on this list in a year. Easily the toughest position to rank. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted August 9, 2014 Sorry I haven't posted anything, my parents have been working me like a slave. Haha. 9. David West 14.0 PPG/ 6.8 TRB/ 2.8 AST/ .9 BPG 17.5 PER/ 53% TS/ 12.3 REBR/ 18.3 DRR. 5.7 ORR Why he’s in the top 10: Probably the most consistent/reliable player on the Pacer’s roster last year, West is one of the steady forces that keep the Pacers going. He does all things on offense pretty well outside of hitting threes. He’ll never be confused as being great on that side of the ball, but his consistency gives him the nod. The Pacers scored 7 points more per 100 possessions with him in the game then out of it, that’s a higher number than any other Pacer player. Defensively he also gives you a lot more than almost any other Pacer. We’ve seen him do a great job of handling smaller players, and we’ve seen him handle players in the post. Why he isn't higher: While he is the definition of consistency, he doesn't particularly excel at any category that’s not defense. He doesn't rebound as well as you’d want a big man to, and he can’t be relied to to carry an offense if need be. But on a list where a lot of guys either give you something on offense, or defense, he does both pretty well, and that gets him the nod. 8. Paul Millsap 17.9 PPG/ 8.5 RPG/ 3.1 AST/ 1.1 BPG 19.8 PER/ 55% TS/ 14.6 REBR/ 19.6 DRR/ 7.2 ORR Why he’s in the top 10: Millsap keeps getting better and better, to the point where his offensive game now is becoming complete. He showed a lot of growth from the 3 point line, knocking over 55% of his three pointers from the top right corner and shooting over 45% from the corner. He’s a great passer as well for a 4. He doesn’t turn the ball over a lot when you compare him to other bigs who handle the ball a lot. He’s also a great defender, and tends to be underrated in that area. He has a huge wingspan, which helps him ne good at playing man up and playing around the rim. It also helps with grabbing boards, although he’s a lot better at grabbing defensive rebounds then offensive. Millsap is a legitimate all star. Why he’s not higher: He could do better in the paint, he shoots pretty average around the rim, which doesn’t help his shooting %. He also takes too many jumpers, he’s improved in that area, but I think he could settle to trim down on the overall amount of attempts from down there. He shot below 30% from the mid range in two zones and almost universally shot below 40% from the mid range area. His usage rate also jumped which some may argue was the big reason for the jump in production. 7. Kevin Love 26.1 PPG/ 12.5 TRB/ 4.4 RPG/ 4.4 AST/ .5 BPG 26.9 PER/ 59% TS/ 18.7 REBR/ 29.5 DRR/ 8.5 ORR Why he’s in the top 10: Where do you start? He’s arguably the best stretch 4 in the league, he continues to complete his offensive game now adding a pretty impressive outlet pass to his arsenal. He’s got one of the better three balls among big men, and it continues to get better. And he’s extremely relentless on the boards, this helps him get to the foul line a ton, which in return makes him extremely efficient. Love can be the most explosive scorer in the league at times because if his three ball is good, you know he’s going to get to the line a lot. His rebounding in general is extremely impressive, he gets his through the aforementioned relentlessness, knack for boxing out, and strong lower body. His instincts and knack for knowing when to jump are almost unmatched. There isn’t a guy who can put up prettier numbers then Love can at times, true definition of video game numbers. Why he isn't higher: I think it’s important, again, to stress the fact that the PF position is really packed, and normally he'd be a lot higher. But there are really two things working against him imo. The first is his offense, which is usually very efficient, there are times where he takes too many jumpers. Especially three pointers, he keeps taking them, which uses up possessions. The second is obviously the defense, which is bad enough for me to not put him any higher. He is a huge liability, the kind you have to get creative and hide on that side of the ball, which is something that can truly cripple a team because of the position he plays and how important it is to a defense. He’s a non-factor inside, and he’s a nonfactor out on the perimeter. He’s also always chasing and getting caught lost in pick and roll situations. And that doesn’t even mention the times he completely ignores his man to go after the rebound. He just gives so little in a position where it’s so crucial, that I can’t put him higher. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted August 10, 2014 6. Dirk Nowitzki 21.7 PPG/ 6.2 RPG/ 2.7 AST/ .6 BPG 23.6/ 60% TS/ 10.9 REBR/ 20.0 DRR/ 1.8 ORR Why he’s in the top 10: It really doesn’t get better then Dirk on offense from the 4 position. His shot chart from within the 3 point line is as pretty as it gets, he can score from anywhere, and shoots over 65% from the paint, which makes him elite in both that area and the midrange area where shoots around 50%. To go along with all the aforementioned, he shoots almost 40% from the 3 point line. He’s easily one of the most gifted scorers in the league, and it’s crazy that even at this age he can put up 21+ points on high efficiency. To go along with his scoring is the passing, which while he isn’t elite by any means, he’s still pretty good at it. And he passes without turning the ball over. He is a net +10 player on the Mavericks, the offense as well as the defense play significantly better with him on the floor then on the bench. Why he isn’t higher: Defensively, while he isn’t Kevin Love bad, it isn’t a forte. He isn’t a liability because he knows how to use his length to bother his opponents. He’s also not a very good rebounder, which wouldn’t really matter outside of the fact that he is a 7 footer, and he plays PF. He’s never been a great rebounder, but he’s been even worse with his age. 5. Blake Griffin 24.1 PPG/ 9.5 RPG/ 3.9 AST/ .6 BPG 23.9 PER/ 58% TS/ 14.7 REBR/ 21.1 DRR/ 7.7 ORR Why he’s in the top 10: It’s pretty amazing to watch the growth of Blake Griffin. I used to say that people needed to let this guy grow before bashing him for how one dimensional his offense used to be, and even I didn’t see this much improvement coming. Griffin averaged almost 25 points a game scoring from multiple places, and is developing a truly complete offense. He has become one of the most efficient players in the league from the post, either scoring, or drawing a foul on a vast majority of his attempts. He’s gotten really good at working from the left, to the right with the hook, and a counter move taking it back to the left after a pump fake to lay it in underneath if you bite. Even his jumper is improving, he is attempting more mid range J’s and is making more from nearly everywhere including the 3 point line. Even from the free throw line he has shown a ton of improvement while taking more free throws. We all already know how proficient he is as a passer from the 4 position. But the area where he has shown a ton of promise surprisingly is on defense, where you can no longer say he’s a liability. He will never be great on defense because his arms are so short, but he is showing a ton of improvements working the pick and roll and working off of defenders. Why he isn’t higher: Despite his progress on offense, he still could stand to improve from the mid range area, and the free throw line. If last year Blake is as good as it gets, that’s still pretty good, but he’s still shooting below 40% from the mid range area, he’s about average from that area and beyond. Defensively he could still stand to improve a bit, I think he needs to learn to be able to use that athleticism on that side of the ball to help him with his man defense. Finally, it seems as though he has regressed as a rebounder. He is still better than a good portion of players, but there was a point where he was dominant in that area, not so much anymore. People thought he would regress when CP3 went down, he flipped it around and was able to play at an MVP level carrying the Clippers. This was in many ways a breakout year for him, but he could get even better. 4. Lamarcus Aldridge 23.2 PPG/ 11.1 RPG/ 2.6 AST/ 1.0 21.8 PER/ 51% TS/ 16.5 REBR/ 25.6 DRR/ 7.2 ORR Why he’s in the top 10: Speaking of guys with great offensive repertoires, Aldridge is one of the most talented in terms of beating guys and scoring. The Trailblazers’ offense requires Aldridge to take a ton of jumpers to open up the offense for the rest of the team. Despite this, he still manages to put up [pretty good numbers considering the circumstances. When it comes to working inside the paint, or with his back to the basket, there aren’t many players with a bigger set of moves. He plays in an offense that involves a lot of movement and passing, despite that, he seems to be allergic to turning the ball over. Defensively Aldridge gives you something that almost all of PFs in this list don’t, and that’s rim protection. Opponent’s field goal percentage around the rim when Aldridge is defending sits at 44%, that’s 1% worse than Howard, and better then Noah’s, and that’s with opponents attempting more shots around the rim against the Trailblazers than any other team in the league. Aldridge’s ability to play both sides of the ball effectively and being a rim protector gets him this high on the list. Why he isn’t higher: Despite the excuses I made for his inefficiency offensively, they still exist. His offensive game is one that at times can truly hurt the team (although that’s few and far in between) and he isn’t very good at the free throw line despite being a great jump shooter. He’s also not a great rebounder. This past year he put up some very good numbers on the boards, but this is the first year where he’s truly looked dominant on the boards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
56AceInDaPlace 110 Posted August 10, 2014 I yhink Alridge is top 3. And you have Timmy D in the top 3? Old af but still getting it done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) I yhink Alridge is top 3. And you have Timmy D in the top 3? Old af but still getting it done. I got Duncan on the center list. But after thinking about it, I actually agree. I would put Alridge ahead of Davis. Edited August 12, 2014 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted August 12, 2014 3. Anthony Davis 20.8 PPG/ 10.0 RPG/ 1.6 AST/ 2.8 BPG 26.5 PER/ 58% TS/ 16.6 REBR/ 23.3 DRR/ 10.0 ORR Why he’s in the top 3: Wasn’t really a believer in Davis his rookie year, but watching him play last year, I started seeing what others saw. He’s a guard in a forward/center’s body, capable of beating almost all big men off the dribble to the basket, and he knows how to finish around the rim. He continues to expand his range, shooting around 40% from the mid-range area, and 63% from the paint. He’s also become pretty adapt at drawing on his way to the basket, grabbing fouls at a great rate. At just 21 years old, he’s already developed a pretty efficient game, and he’s still improving. He uses his athletic ability on defense as well as on offense as he is becoming especially when picking up guys off of pick and roll situations. He’s versatile enough to be able to play up against either bigger guys or quicker guys with relative ease, and should be even better against the biggest and strongest centers once he bulks up a little more. Davis has developed into what is already a great defender with room to grow, and an ever developing offensive game. Where he can improve: Offensively, even though he has improved his jumper and is extending his range, there were a few spots where he was pretty bad on the perimeter, and could stand to improve. He isn’t a true mid-range threat yet, and the Pelicans will need him to be able to develop that part of his game if he is to be utilized as a real offensive player. Defensively, despite Davis’ ability to block and disrupt shots, he isn’t a real rim protector yet. He’s a nonfactor in that area right now, and a lot of that has to do with being a little late on rotations, and not always being able to recognize or anticipate incoming traffic. The next step for Davis would be to develop that aspect of his defense, because if he is able to do so, he will be the total package on that side of the ball. The crazy thing about all of this is that, again, Davis is still so young and has so much room for growth. 2. Carmelo Anthony 27.4 PPG/ 8.1 RPG/ 3.1 AST/ 1.2 STLs 24.4 PER/ 56% TS/ 50% eFG Why he’s in the top 3: Carmelo has actually been playing PF the majority of his minutes for well around two years now, and while he’s still a SF by association, the Knicks have been far more effective with him at the 4 then with him at the 3. Offensively the move has allowed for him to be able to use his athleticism, and quickness to beat out bigger guys, and use his size and strength to take out smaller guys. He can score from all over, from the paint to the 3 point line, where he shot over 40%, to the mid-range area where he hit on over 45% of his jumpers. An underrated part of Carmelo’s game that doesn’t get mentioned is his rebounding. When he played small forward, he was among the best in terms of rebounding rate, sometimes even elite. Now not so much, but Melo has always been an asset on the boards. Defensively Melo is far from a liability, and is actually pretty good on that side of the ball. Melo does have those series where he takes possessions off on defense and coasts, but for the most part, the guy has shown the ability to be a great on ball defender. Where he could improve: Like many other guys in the league who impact the game mostly by their scoring, Melo does run into the issue of sometimes trying too hard at times leading to a stagnant offense. Although he doesn’t have many people to throw the ball to so I can see why it would happen on occasion. He’s improved when it comes to passing out of double teams, but he could still be a bit better at it imo. Then there’s the obvious resting on the defensive end on occasion. He’s never been Harden bad, and it’s certainly excusable to a certain extent because of how much work he’s required to do offensively, but he isn’t nearly as impactful on that side of the ball as he could, or shout be. 1. Lebron James 27 PPG/ 6.9 RPG/ 6.3 AST/ 1.6 STLs 29.3 PER/ 65% TS/ 11.5 REBR/ 18.9 DRR/ 3.6 ORR Why he’s the best: Lebron James continues to show no signs of slowing down despite age, and usage. He continues to improve to the point that you wonder how much better he can get. He’s the definition of efficiency. And only Kyle Korver had a better TS % then him. He’s developed a jumper enough to the point where he has to be respected, especially from the corners on the 3 point line where he hit 63% from one end and 52% from the other. And of course, we all know about his work in the paint where his field goal percentage was over 72%. He’s also the most talented passer among the forwards and arguably the best playmaker in the NBA today. The offense as a whole averaged over 9 points more per 100 possessions with him in the game. Lebron excels at every single facet of the game, and he looks to continue improving, and changing his game as he ages so that he relies less on his athleticism. The move to PF while he played for the Heat was a great move for the same reason it was for Carmelo. It allows him to beat out slower guys who play PF, while using his strength against the smaller combo forwards. Where he flops: His defense and rebounding occasionally took a back burner this past season. Lebron and the Heat in general seemed to be coasting a lot on that side of the ball throughout the season. That was remedied for the most part in the playoffs, but by LBJ standards, his defense could have been better. His jumper is still a work in progress, at least from the top of the 3 point line and midrange area. He doesn’t have many areas that would be considered weaknesses though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BJORN 679 Posted August 13, 2014 (edited) Haha its hard for me to wrap my head around Melo and Bron being listed as 4s but I don't disagree with your thought process on that. However, I would rank AD and Aldridge over Melo mainly for defensive and rebounding reasons. It's hard to compare them given Melo is a natural small forward and they are more traditional power forwards.. Completely agree with Love being fairly low on this list despite mainstream belief as he gets a lot of what I would call "sexy stats." I'd strongly consider listing Millsap over him basically for the pros you listed for him and the weaknesses in Love's game. Edited August 13, 2014 by BJORN Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
