Draft Breakdown 2015 draft

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

He won't be able to play defense like that in the NFL unless he gets drafted by Seattle...

[butta54 371]

Revis, Browner, and Peterson did.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Revis can actually cover people without committing fouls
Browner made his name in Seattle
Peterson is complete ass

[butta54 371]

So unless you are Revis or play for Seattle you can't cover?

 

 

Also Waynes didn't commit any fouls on that play. That is how you supposed to play man coverage.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I thought it was a known issue with him, I apologize for assuming you had watched his film. The guy uses his hands in coverage far too often. He will probably be one of the most heavily penalized corners in football unless A) He gets drafted by Seattle because refs allow them to get away with it or B) He doesn't get the snaps to qualify.

He needs to get a lot smarter before he ever thinks about becoming a star at the next level. Not saying he isn't capable of that, but we will see.

[butta54 371]

Waynes uses his hands too much?

 

I'm going to assume you haven't seen the film on Marcus Peters then....

[Cherry 1,302]

Here we go talking about watching film

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Waynes uses his hands too much?

 

I'm going to assume you haven't seen the film on Marcus Peters then....

Why? You act like there is only one guy in college football who uses his hands too much and gets grabby. It's a trait multiple guys can have.

[butta54 371]

Why? You act like there is only one guy in college football who uses his hands too much and gets grabby. It's a trait multiple guys can have.

 

Nah I agree with and understand that.

 

But saying Waynes could be one of the most heavily penalized players....then that must mean Peters will never see the field or something cause he is 10x worse.

 

At any rate, I do agree Waynes uses his hands too much, but not a gross amount like some of the other guys in this draft (like Peters of course).

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

We're gonna act like Trae Waynes and Kenny Bell are on the same level as prospects and their value round wise in the draft? Waynes is supposed to do that to Kenny Bell. But okay... we gonna show that GIF but not gonna show this one from the same game against a worse WR than Kenny Bell?

 

 

No, but playful ribbing aside I like Peters a lot but butta is right he does use his hands a lot. My probs with Waynes has everything not to do with that. My issues with him are similar to my issues with Justin Gilbert in terms of their effectiveness against plant and cut routes like slants, posts, ins. Anything inside really.

 

Obviously he needs to use his hands less, something Xavier Rhodes (who I had as my #1 CB that year) came into the league doing. Like, you're not gonna get away with this in the NFL:

 

But that kinda stuff honestly doesn't bother me at all. I'd rather a rookie CB come in being a little grabby. It means he wants it, he's physical and he's not backing down. You can't just mug dudes 24/7 or anything, but it's not a huge negative to me with prospects.

 

Here's some of the plant and cut stuff I mean:

 

 

Obviously here the ball isn't thrown (Hack pump fakes it to him, and actually should of thrown it to him because he had Waynes beat with 2 yards of separation inside) and this seems innocuous but this is what I'm talking about; guys with short area quickness and any NFL WR with good route running is gonna eat inside on this kid all game.

 

Again... this is even a running play, but Waynes is watching the WR unbeknownst of the fact and still gets cooked by the WR:

 

 

and again..

 

 

and again...

 

 

and in this 2 play GIF (back-to-back play calls because Art Briles obviously saw something though his guys suck so it didn't matter ) we see Waynes beat inside on short posts/slants whatever you wanna call it—the WR plants and cuts and Waynes is beat instantly, again:

 

 

One should of been an easy TD, the other is a completion with a starting caliber NFL QB and WR.

 

It's not all just stuff of him getting beat by quickness laterally either, and not just stuff of him getting beat but the ball not being thrown, that happens too

 

Also, when you're talking him in any type of off-man or zone responsibility PHEW

 

 

Both Gilbert and Waynes are awesome at defending vertical routes (as we see in that Waynes/Bell GIF), because that's their bread & butter. They're strictly boundary CBs who you can't ask to be effective consistently against those routes I described or showed earlier. It seems like Gilbert not only had those issues but his dedication/work ethic has been questioned too so I don't think Waynes will flop like Gilbert did his rookie year. I still think he's a good CB, just a little over hyped is all.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

I didn't name him as one of my busts in the bust thread that has to count too right?

[butta54 371]

I think most of those GIFs are incredibly picky. Besides the one with the stutter and slant by Minnesota Waynes is in position to make plays on the ball in all of those.

 

-Hackenberg didn't throw it because Waynes was driving on the ball already AND there was a LB or someone playing coverage underneath.

 

-Then you look at the Oregon and Ohio St. gifs. Common theme? No jamming....he is pressed up and playing shadow technique....if he chooses not to jam then he has to immediately backpedal to get depth otherwise receivers will run right past him with no redirection. So yes the inside lane will open right away, but you watch college or pros and there are no CBs who will run a route and be in front of a receiver everytime. It is about being in position to break up the ball or make a play on a bad pass. Incompletions are wins, not just interceptions.

 

-Last two against Ohio St....one is a comeback which is very difficult to defend if ran properly. You get a DB to speed turn to defend the vertical and then you drive back to the QB....I wager all DBs get hit on that one, and even still he was within a few yards of him. Then the press-bail.....honestly the worst technique for DBs because if it isn't vertical you've already turned around and started running down field so anything inside and short is open. No one does press-bail correctly.

 

-Slants against Baylor are two different techniques. You can tell by his initial stance. The one Goodley beat him on is either a bail situation or deep third coverage because he instantly shuffles to take the outside lane.

 

Now in zone I agree he looked bad, but not because he couldn't cover...in zone it isn't your job to be on the receiver that is why you have help to the inside, deep, or in the flats. He has bad instincts and timing in zone that I don't like. As far as the quick recievers...he will be the same way Revis is when playing man coverage....check the receivers at the line and dictate the speed. He has to learn when to change up techniques. Gilbert is a whole different mess of a story, but you are right in that they both wanted to rely on athleticism and just follow receivers like Patrick Peterson.

 

I'm not saying Waynes is Revis....I'm saying he has the same tools. Don't let film lie to you with DBs, we don't know their coverage responsibilites on any given play....where the help is coming from...or if it is a blown assignment.

Edited April 14, 2015 by butta55

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

Waynes is interesting, we'll see what happens in the draft it seems like mainstream wise he's the #1 CB but draftniks seem split on him being the top CB or even top 2 CBs. Given his 40 time he likely goes before any other corner I'd guess, we saw it with Gilbert last year. Run really fast and some team is gonna grab you early.

[butta54 371]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000356334/article/2011-nfl-draft-grades-49ers-get-a-bears-get-an-f

 

The real way to grade drafts, three years after.

 

But the grades are by Bucky Brooks so....

Edited April 16, 2015 by butta55

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000356334/article/2011-nfl-draft-grades-49ers-get-a-bears-get-an-f

 

The real way to grade drafts, three years after.

 

But the grades are by Bucky Brooks so....

 

He called Will Rackley a value pick so yeah... I guess Cecil Shorts does save that draft from an F but holy hell...

 

EDIT: Then again, Shorts didn't even get a second contract and if you're good you usually do (injuries the big negative for Shorts here.) So basically I think that draft should really get an F.

Edited April 17, 2015 by CampinWithGoatSampson

[Thanatos 2,847]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000356334/article/2011-nfl-draft-grades-49ers-get-a-bears-get-an-f

 

The real way to grade drafts, three years after.

 

But the grades are by Bucky Brooks so....

 

He has Kealoha Pilares as a value pick in that draft lol. Pilares hasn't seen the field in two years and did very little in his rookie campaign.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

yeah Will Rackley was like record breakingly bad according to PFF and watching him it wasn't a surprise because he was really really really bad. He would literately fall on his face as he was running.

[butta54 371]

 

He has Kealoha Pilares as a value pick in that draft lol. Pilares hasn't seen the field in two years and did very little in his rookie campaign.

 

 

yeah Will Rackley was like record breakingly bad according to PFF and watching him it wasn't a surprise because he was really really really bad. He would literately fall on his face as he was running.

 

You all were warned about the Bucky

[Cherry 1,302]

Well, it was the Jags and Panthers.

[Thanatos 2,847]

The back-to-back division champions of the NFC South Panthers, yes. A feat no one had ever accomplished before.

 

Here's another one:

 

The Panthers are the first team in NFL history to have back-to-back playoff seasons before having back-to-back winning seasons.

 

Aw yeah.

 

Packers? Pff. Soft. Cam > A-Rod.

 

Seahawks? LoB? Legion of Boom? More like Legion of Babies.

 

The Panthers are the real class of the NFC. Bring it on.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Thanatos19

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

This is how you do it Than,

 

Well, it was the Jags and Panthers.

 

ALL-TIME WINNING %

2 decades each for Panthers and Jags too so it's not like it's the Texans...

 

[Cherry 1,302]

Since 2010 panthers are roughly (fucked up. Close within 2 games though.) 34-47-1. Jags are 22-58.

 

Jags are 14-50 since 2011, too.

 

Oakland has been 19-45 over that time for the record. Oakland was 27-53 since 2010.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Chernobyl426

[butta54 371]

I sit here humbly and admit I was off on Mariota's ability in the pocket

 

 

I think since I watched him right after Winston (who was worse) Mariot's active feet fooled me into believing that he understood when and how to step up. To be fair Mariota improved by the playoff games, but he was a mess this year and how no idea where the pressure was coming from and when he did he rarely knew where to go. I believe F4E or someone brought this up and I would like to say you were right. This hurt's his grade for sure.

Edited April 20, 2015 by butta55

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

Was probably me too, I've always talked about his lack of poise in the pocket. Even on the radio show about the QBs I think I said something along the lines of he reminds me of a poor man's Ryan Tannehill who's worse in the pocket (or that Tannehill was better in the pocket.) Not sure why you think Winston is worse though, he's 20x more comfortable in a muddy pocket than Mariota. Unless you mean strictly foot work or something which is a mechanics thing and not ability in the pocket.

[butta54 371]

Winston almost never steps up in the pocket. If there is pressure he either throws while getting hit, drifts back and back then throws off his back foot, or he scrambles out. I don't think Winston sees the pressure either, but he is big enough to avoid tackles when they reach him. And when he does see the pressure pre-snap he looks to sling it to a hot route or scrambles. With Mariota there are a handful of times he actually climbed the pocket and delivered the throw, can't say I ever really saw that with Winston. I think both are poised, they will stand in and make the throw when they need to, just don't know how to work the pocket like a pro QB yet.