NFCCG: Packers @ Seahawks

[Thanatos 2,847]

biggest play nobody's going to talk about: Burnett's interception with 5 minutes left, I think that was the turning point in this game

 

At the time, the Packers led by 12 and had just gone 3 and out, Seattle had a chance to build momentum but gave the ball away, off Kearse's hands and right to Burnett, who promptly slid to the ground, my immediate reaction was why the hell did you not advance that? The more I think about it, the more I think my immediate reaction was exactly right.

 

Sliding on an INT is something you do with a game icing INT, so by sliding Burnett gave a signal that he thought the game was over, with five minutes left. The Seahawks may have seen this as a challenge/insult, but more importantly I think it signaled the overall feeling of the Green Bay defense, because they did nothing after that point to even slow Seattle down. Green Bay had the opportunity to put the dagger in, nobody was near Burnett when he caught the ball, he probably could have gotten at least 10-15 yards, which would have put Green Bay near field goal range. Bottom line, late in the game Green Bay played as if the game had already been decided, this play was a microcosm of that, and I think that's why they ultimately lost

 

I asked this when he went down. That was such a dumb decision. Maybe he was influenced by Demarcus Lawrence's fumble after the stripsack where people were saying he should have gone down even though the game also would not have been 100% over.

 

Run with it, go for the pick-6 or put your team in FG range and end the game. The Pack played not to lose in the 4th, and it made me sick and I think I finally figured out why.

 

I've seen Carolina do that so many times in the 4th- just sit on a lead- with Rivera, and rooting for the Pack as I was, it just conjured up way too many bad memories. You do not play not to lose. It will bite you every time. It's why John Fox will never win a Superbowl. Its why the Hawks are as good as they are. Wilson had thrown 4 INTs that game. In OT, what do they do? They come out throwing bombs. They never just sat on it, they never tried to just run the ball, they kept at it.

 

Yeah it could have meant they lost the game, but at least they would have gone down swinging instead of with a whimper. Its why I didn't mind that Carolina lost. We gave it our best shot, we took shots, we took chances, as you have to to beat a team like Seattle.

Seattle all but gave this game to GB and they simply refused to put the dagger in.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Thanatos19

[Sacks98 28]

Worst game i have seen Wilson play yes even worse then the divisional round game last year because at least he protected the football he was forcing passes in this game.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Sacks98

[BC 331]

To play like that and win is unreal. But to have those circumstances and come out with a win is crazy, and more awesome than i can really fathom. Some will rightfully be really down on Wilson and having once again been bailed out by his defense and running game through 58 minutes. But on the other hand, to know your team has the fight/ability to pull that off on the slim chance we do have all those freak turnovers happen again at some point, with the defense we have, will are always in any game pretty much no matter what.

 

Gunna have to sleep the aftermath of the nerves off for an honest evaluation, but at the end of the day, this game was all a bunch of missed opportunities from both sides. Dropped balls, batted interceptions, and all way too many freak happenings. I don't think that's who we will be next week, and we definitely needed those times GB shot themselves in the foot. I feel we shot ourselves more, and that we didn't start playing offense until the 4th quarter, but we managed barely putting ourselves in a good enough situation to be that clutch.

[Wattafan 28]

To play like that and win is unreal. But to have those circumstances and come out with a win is crazy, and more awesome than i can really fathom. Some will rightfully be really down on Wilson and having once again been bailed out by his defense and running game through 58 minutes. But on the other hand, to know your team has the fight/ability to pull that off on the slim chance we do have all those freak turnovers happen again at some point, with the defense we have, will are always in any game pretty much no matter what.

 

Gunna have to sleep the aftermath of the nerves off for an honest evaluation, but at the end of the day, this game was all a bunch of missed opportunities from both sides. Dropped balls, batted interceptions, and all way too many freak happenings. I don't think that's who we will be next week, and we definitely needed those times GB shot themselves in the foot. I feel we shot ourselves more, and that we didn't start playing offense until the 4th quarter, but we managed barely putting ourselves in a good enough situation to be that clutch.

What won the game for me was the heart and belief the Seahawks had. They did not give up for a moment - just kept plugging away until the Packers choked.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Oh man, Aaron was so pissed during his press conference.. He said the play calls weren't as aggressive later in the game... He was asked to elaborate, and refused...

Jason Wilde then went through the last two offensive series and listed every play, Aaron's response.. "When you do that, that's how you lose games"

 

EDIT: And before anyone says anything.. He did mention later all the other really fail things that occurred. So he wasn't saying that was the only reason we lost, but you could tell he wasn't happy about it above those other things.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Favre4Ever

[SteVo+ 3,702]

How many times do we need to see this in the playoffs?

 

If you play not to lose...you probably lose.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Fat slugs don't have the killer instinct.

[Packers Dynasty 2010 116]

This loss is gonna sting for a while, but hopefully it leaves a chip on everyone's shoulders and they come out firing next season. I'm hoping Green Bay responds like the Spurs did to their 2013 finals loss. Rodgers has a point and it has me wondering if he would be better getting an OC for playcalling or getting someone with a killer instinct. Has always been my hugest problem with McCarthy, he doesn't go for the throat like Belichick, Carrol, Harbuagh, etc...

 

Earl Thomas had a brace and Sherman was playing with a stinger but we didn't test them at all. On that final drive, should have at least tried a long ball to Nelson against Sherman.

 

Feel bad for Bostick as he is getting a lot of hate right now, but he decided to go for the ball instead of blocking and letting Nelson go up and get it.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Packers Dynasty 2010

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Even giving Aaron more control of the offense and letting him call the plays (he does in some situations already) would be more ideal, IMO. Remember that game Matt Flynn torched the Lions for 6 TDs? Aaron Rodgers was calling the plays.

It's time to give him that kind of power and control over the offense.

[Attyla the Hawk 197]

How many times do we need to see this in the playoffs?

 

If you play not to lose...you probably lose.

 

I don't know. Seattle plays like that when they have leads. And they almost always win.

 

Green Bay was doing precisely that. And they were destroying us in the 3rd/4th quarter.

 

Honestly, I don't see where Aaron can consider criticizing the play calling. It's no like he was tearing it up through the air. In that situation, you definitely run the ball. The Packers had significant success running the ball and it did result in Seattle having to burn 2 of their time outs.

 

I'm just kind of amused at Rodger's thinly veiled criticism of his own team. Frankly, I would never see Wilson throw his team or coaches under the bus like that. Ever.

 

Rodgers may be a great QB talent. But in terms of running a game plan or understanding how to lead a team he simply doesn't have the chops. Not unlike -- pretty much most QBs who if they had their way would throw every down they had control over.

 

Can he win sometimes in the clutch on talent alone? You bet. But in every contest he's played against us, he's been reduced to a sniveling bitch at the end. Blaming any culprit he can pin it on. Always his is the better team. I'm not surprised in the least that he tearily sniped at his own team after the game. It's par for the course when he loses to us. I simply see a soft QB, who wants to play soft against us.

 

Ultimately, there were about a half dozen things that had to break Seattle's way to even be in a position to earn that win. It was pure providence that opened the opportunity to get into the game. But ultimately, Seattle had to go take it when the football Gods gave that opportunity.

 

The percentages of that happening were extremely low. The way Green Bay's defense was owning Seattle even made the prospect more dim. Aaron simply doesn't understand that there are 26 other players not on offense that are part of his team too.

 

In truth, Aaron has a short memory. He obviously forgot conveniently that he was a robust 4 for 9 in the second half up to that point. With poor results of 6, 12, 2 and 7 yards. Green Bay was running the ball effectively. Much more so than him throwing it. If he wanted the game to rest on his arm, then he is just plain retarded in that regard.

 

In fact, GB conceded to Rodgers desires in the drive before that and ended up going incomplete. Costing 30+ seconds of gametime. It's not like Princess didn't get his wish. He just didn't deliver and didn't earn the right to complain about it after the fact.

 

Aaron Rodgers is a great QB. He's a pretty lousy game manager though. And his mental toughness in the face of adversity is non existent at least in the games he's played against us. I don't for a second believe that Rodgers has the heart of a champion. He has the talent and has had the teams where he should have several rings by now. At least have been able to make the show. He just isn't tough mentally. And his leadership qualities are just plain bad.

 

I don't know if McCarthy survives this off season. But if they go a different direction, they are going to need an iron fist coach capable of putting baby in the corner when he needs to be.

 

Rodgers may be a better passer than Russell Wilson. But he's not a better Quarterback. Wilson is just flat out tougher than Aaron Rodgers. In virtually every way.

[Sacks98 28]

This is why some people hate Russell Wilson he is not better than Rodgers lol.

 

However i do think Wilson gets unfairly criticized by some people for not being in a Fantasy Football type offense that wants to run the ball.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Sacks98

[Maverick 791]

Oh man...this just got good.

 

[Maverick 791]

Didn't know where to put this so I'll just post here.

 

I think it's pretty funny that in the NFC considering the circumstances, you have the Lions who feel like they got screwed against the Cowboys and should have won. Then it's the Cowboys who feel like they got screwed against the Packers and should have won. And now the Packers feel like they screwed themselves against the Seahawks and should have won.

 

 

[Packers Dynasty 2010 116]

That has to be some of the stupidest shit I have ever read, goob job Attyla. You just placed yourself on BC's level...

[Thanatos 2,847]

The Hawks play not to lose? The Hawks, who just last week when they were up by two scores on Carolina with < 2minutes to play, threw a deep bomb to allow them to kneel down when Carolina had like a 0.001% chance of winning the game if they just run and then punt it?

 

Do you know your own team? Sure the Hawks do run the ball a lot more in that situation than other teams- but the key here is that Seattle is using its most effective play to pick up the first down. Make no mistake, they are going for the first and trying to run the clock. For the Hawks, their highest percentage chance of getting it is to let Lynch have the ball. For the Packers, that is placing the ball in the hands of the best QB in the league, (and rofl@Wilson > Rodgers.) Anyone who doesn't have an issue with how McCarthy coached those last five minutes simply does not know football and the percentages of winning the game. You end it. You don't let a team like the Hawks hang around by refusing to even try for the first.

 

I've always liked reading your posts, Attyla, but you just went full BC with that one.

[badgers 380]

I love Russell Wilson. I think he's a great QB. But he's not better than Rodgers in any facet of the game.

 

The more I'm thinking about it, the more I want to bring up a few points.

 

• Sometimes, no matter what McCarthy says, I think he doesn't have as much confidence in the team as he says. We have the best QB in the game, even if he's at 50% he's still a playoff caliber QB. Why, pray tell, are we sending out the respective kicking units on 3 4th and 1's throughout the game. Especially 2 of them were on the Seattle 1 yard line? It makes no sense. In past years, namely the XLV year, we would have gone for all 3 of those. Take into account Pete Carroll during the game. He goes for a fake FG late in the game to spark the team, which it clearly did. McCarthy would never do that. You could make the argument that it was out of desperation, which in some respects it was, but if it was pure desperation why not just leave the offense out there to convert? That clearly gives you the best chance at scoring a TD.
• The conservative play calling makes no sense to me. On offense, at least (I'll get to D). In the regular season we had quite a few games where we blew out the opponent. Rodgers stayed in even when we were up 30 to continue the onslaught. Why in god's name (when we aren't satisfied with a 30 point lead against the Bears) are we satisfied with a 12 point lead against one of the NFL's best teams in the playoffs? Why are we playing like we've already won? It's the playoffs - no matter how good the opponent is or how much they're down, they aren't going to just concede defeat until the clock reads 0. Instead we just played like we already had won the game. What's even more ridiculous is after we let them take the lead we got aggressive again and it fucking worked. We drove down to their 30 or something for a field goal. An infant could make a better decision than what was made.
• The defense, I really didn't have a problem with. Yes, for the 2nd straight year they gave up a game winning drive. But come on. For the same 2nd straight year the defense has put us in position to win but stupid decisions on offense has eliminated us. We played miles better than last year, when we lost on a game-ending field goal. 5 total turnovers are intended to win you a football game. It's absurd that we could not win this one. The Seahawks couldn't even more the ball for 55 minutes of the game. It's absolutely ridiculous. Aside from a few play calls I was fine with the defense. I have no idea why Matthews wasn't out there for the Seahawk's final drive. Idk who's decision that was but it was stupid. Hawk and Jones, for the 18th game this season, were targeted and exploited.

 

I'm not as down in the dumps as some people. I'm just annoyed because now I'm hearing "We'll use this game as motivation and come back better". How many fucking times are we going to hear that? We've been "coming back better" and "getting motivated" from humiliating losses for 4 god damn years now. I don't mean to sound impatient because I usually am rather level-headed but when we play as good as we did and lose because of game management decisions... I'm sorry but that's something that people need to be fired over. I won't call for any firings yet.... but if next year ends in a similar or worse fashion than this one. I don't know how much longer I can stand for McCarthy. Every year I get a little more worried that he's holding back this team. And this game made it obvious that at least this week.. he did.

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

 

I don't know. Seattle plays like that when they have leads. And they almost always win.

 

Green Bay was doing precisely that. And they were destroying us in the 3rd/4th quarter.

 

Honestly, I don't see where Aaron can consider criticizing the play calling. It's no like he was tearing it up through the air. In that situation, you definitely run the ball. The Packers had significant success running the ball and it did result in Seattle having to burn 2 of their time outs.

 

I'm just kind of amused at Rodger's thinly veiled criticism of his own team. Frankly, I would never see Wilson throw his team or coaches under the bus like that. Ever.

 

Rodgers may be a great QB talent. But in terms of running a game plan or understanding how to lead a team he simply doesn't have the chops. Not unlike -- pretty much most QBs who if they had their way would throw every down they had control over.

 

Can he win sometimes in the clutch on talent alone? You bet. But in every contest he's played against us, he's been reduced to a sniveling bitch at the end. Blaming any culprit he can pin it on. Always his is the better team. I'm not surprised in the least that he tearily sniped at his own team after the game. It's par for the course when he loses to us. I simply see a soft QB, who wants to play soft against us.

 

Ultimately, there were about a half dozen things that had to break Seattle's way to even be in a position to earn that win. It was pure providence that opened the opportunity to get into the game. But ultimately, Seattle had to go take it when the football Gods gave that opportunity.

 

The percentages of that happening were extremely low. The way Green Bay's defense was owning Seattle even made the prospect more dim. Aaron simply doesn't understand that there are 26 other players not on offense that are part of his team too.

 

In truth, Aaron has a short memory. He obviously forgot conveniently that he was a robust 4 for 9 in the second half up to that point. With poor results of 6, 12, 2 and 7 yards. Green Bay was running the ball effectively. Much more so than him throwing it. If he wanted the game to rest on his arm, then he is just plain retarded in that regard.

 

In fact, GB conceded to Rodgers desires in the drive before that and ended up going incomplete. Costing 30+ seconds of gametime. It's not like Princess didn't get his wish. He just didn't deliver and didn't earn the right to complain about it after the fact.

 

Aaron Rodgers is a great QB. He's a pretty lousy game manager though. And his mental toughness in the face of adversity is non existent at least in the games he's played against us. I don't for a second believe that Rodgers has the heart of a champion. He has the talent and has had the teams where he should have several rings by now. At least have been able to make the show. He just isn't tough mentally. And his leadership qualities are just plain bad.

 

I don't know if McCarthy survives this off season. But if they go a different direction, they are going to need an iron fist coach capable of putting baby in the corner when he needs to be.

 

Rodgers may be a better passer than Russell Wilson. But he's not a better Quarterback. Wilson is just flat out tougher than Aaron Rodgers. In virtually every way.

 

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I think people are calling for patience and using this as motivation because that's really all they can do, ya know? Bad coaching is and has been the vice of the team for years, I don't really see that changing. Name a real weakness from a player personnel level that we have... Inside LB is trash.. S is meh... TE is young and will be getting better. Other than that... There really isn't a ton... We have the best QB in the game, we have a great 1-2 punch at RB.. We have one of the deepest WR corps in the league... Our defensive line looks pretty damn, we have edge rushers, we have CBs who can blanket most opponents.. Honestly, I don't even know what we will do in the draft or free agency, because the holes to fill are fairly limited.

This team is championship caliber.. But something holds us back. Mike McCarthy is a solid coach... But he lacks killer instinct... he lacks that umph, that fire. You have the superior team.. BY FAR.. But when things start to get close, you clam up and call the game like a coward... He began trying to protect a lead instead of trying to win the game... I am not sure how much communication he has or had with Dom in that final quarter, but Capers did the same thing....

It won't happen, but... It might be time to pull a Denver. Mike can win it all, he has his moments... But that run at the Super Bowl featured everything that we have lacked ever since. I want him to to want it more.. I want him to desire another championship more than he has shown.. And if he can't, if that fire has been permanently subdued... Step away and let somebody else give it a try.

 

I also think it might be best if he gave up control of calling offensive plays. Only like two head coaches in the last 15 years or so have won a Super Bowl calling their own plays... Granted, Mike is one of them ( Sean Payton the other, I believe ) but... I just don't think it works for us. Not in the playoffs, at the very least. What we should witness is an unprecedented amount of control from Aaron Rodgers in 2015.

[oochymp 2,393]

In truth, Aaron has a short memory. He obviously forgot conveniently that he was a robust 4 for 9 in the second half up to that point.

does the fact that one of the best QBs in the league (if not the best) only threw the ball nine times in the first 25 minutes of the second half of what was never more than a two score game not seem like a problem in and of itself?

[Sacks98 28]

I love Russell Wilson. I think he's a great QB. But he's not better than Rodgers in any facet of the game.

 

The more I'm thinking about it, the more I want to bring up a few points.

 

• Sometimes, no matter what McCarthy says, I think he doesn't have as much confidence in the team as he says. We have the best QB in the game, even if he's at 50% he's still a playoff caliber QB. Why, pray tell, are we sending out the respective kicking units on 3 4th and 1's throughout the game. Especially 2 of them were on the Seattle 1 yard line? It makes no sense. In past years, namely the XLV year, we would have gone for all 3 of those. Take into account Pete Carroll during the game. He goes for a fake FG late in the game to spark the team, which it clearly did. McCarthy would never do that. You could make the argument that it was out of desperation, which in some respects it was, but if it was pure desperation why not just leave the offense out there to convert? That clearly gives you the best chance at scoring a TD.
• The conservative play calling makes no sense to me. On offense, at least (I'll get to D). In the regular season we had quite a few games where we blew out the opponent. Rodgers stayed in even when we were up 30 to continue the onslaught. Why in god's name (when we aren't satisfied with a 30 point lead against the Bears) are we satisfied with a 12 point lead against one of the NFL's best teams in the playoffs? Why are we playing like we've already won? It's the playoffs - no matter how good the opponent is or how much they're down, they aren't going to just concede defeat until the clock reads 0. Instead we just played like we already had won the game. What's even more ridiculous is after we let them take the lead we got aggressive again and it fucking worked. We drove down to their 30 or something for a field goal. An infant could make a better decision than what was made.
• The defense, I really didn't have a problem with. Yes, for the 2nd straight year they gave up a game winning drive. But come on. For the same 2nd straight year the defense has put us in position to win but stupid decisions on offense has eliminated us. We played miles better than last year, when we lost on a game-ending field goal. 5 total turnovers are intended to win you a football game. It's absurd that we could not win this one. The Seahawks couldn't even more the ball for 55 minutes of the game. It's absolutely ridiculous. Aside from a few play calls I was fine with the defense. I have no idea why Matthews wasn't out there for the Seahawk's final drive. Idk who's decision that was but it was stupid. Hawk and Jones, for the 18th game this season, were targeted and exploited.

 

I'm not as down in the dumps as some people. I'm just annoyed because now I'm hearing "We'll use this game as motivation and come back better". How many fucking times are we going to hear that? We've been "coming back better" and "getting motivated" from humiliating losses for 4 god damn years now. I don't mean to sound impatient because I usually am rather level-headed but when we play as good as we did and lose because of game management decisions... I'm sorry but that's something that people need to be fired over. I won't call for any firings yet.... but if next year ends in a similar or worse fashion than this one. I don't know how much longer I can stand for McCarthy. Every year I get a little more worried that he's holding back this team. And this game made it obvious that at least this week.. he did.

 

One of the media members from Milwaukee said Matthews was fatigued but its gotta be more than that.

[oochymp 2,393]

 

One of the media members from Milwaukee said Matthews was fatigued but its gotta be more than that.

you don't leave a conference championship game because you're "fatigued"

[BC 331]

In fairness, I think Attyla meant "we play to not lose" a little differently. Offensively we are going to take the least amount of risk possible is I think more along the lines of what he meant. For example, we really don't get pass happy unless a front 7 like the Panthers, Rams, and 49ers ('12, '13) is able to stack 8 men in the box and focus completely on stopping Lynch. In most other cases (we abandoned this philosophy vs SD and DAL and paid the price) we stick to running the ball and running shorter, low risk low reward type of plays. In that sense, I agree that we play to not lose.

 

As far as Wilson being better than Rodgers I'll disagree. I also feel that Rodgers has shown toughness by the way he's played through his injuries. I understand the tendency to really love on Wilson's mental toughness as I really love that about him too, more-so than I've even expressed.

 

In terms of how Green Bay approached play calling, I think their strategy was to try and play our type of game as well and stay very committed to the run. Teams really need to approach playing us this way. Attyla said it himself way back on page one that if Green Bay got pass-happy it would be a bad day. The key, after all, is committing the least amount of turnovers, and you saw Aaron throwing two INTs even with how little they threw. I don't think they necessarily blew play calling as a whole. But once they saw Sherman wincing, and getting up as slowly as he did after he made a tackle, I think they were crazy to not maybe run a play over towards his side like a Cobb bubble screen or something, just to test him once to see if he could even have been effective getting off blocks and tackling. I betcha the first plays Bill and Tom run against us will be to test both Sherman and Earl's abilities and see how they fare, and perhaps call the rest of the game based on how efficient those two can be in coverage/tackling.

Edited January 21, 2015 by BC

[Thanatos 2,847]

Why is BC making more sense than Attyla....

[BigBen07 285]

In fairness, I think Attyla meant "we play to not lose" a little differently. Offensively we are going to take the least amount of risk possible is I think more along the lines of what he meant. For example, we really don't get pass happy unless a front 7 like the Panthers, Rams, and 49ers ('12, '13) is able to stack 8 men in the box and focus completely on stopping Lynch. In most other cases (we abandoned this philosophy vs SD and DAL and paid the price) we stick to running the ball and running shorter, low risk low reward type of plays. In that sense, I agree that we play to not lose.

 

As far as Wilson being better than Rodgers I'll disagree. I also feel that Rodgers has shown toughness by the way he's played through his injuries. I understand the tendency to really love on Wilson's mental toughness as I really love that about him too, more-so than I've even expressed.

 

In terms of how Green Bay approached play calling, I think their strategy was to try and play our type of game as well and stay very committed to the run. Teams really need to approach playing us this way. Attyla said it himself way back on page one that if Green Bay got pass-happy it would be a bad day. The key, after all, is committing the least amount of turnovers, and you saw Aaron throwing two INTs even with how little they threw. I don't think they necessarily blew play calling as a whole. But once they saw Sherman wincing, and getting up as slowly as he did after he made a tackle, I think they were crazy to not maybe run a play over towards his side like a Cobb bubble screen or something, just to test him once to see if he could even have been effective getting off blocks and tackling. I betcha the first plays Bill and Tom run against us will be to test both Sherman and Earl's abilities and see how they fare, and perhaps call the rest of the game based on how efficient those two can be in coverage/tackling.

Repped for the bolded part.

[RazorStar 4,025]

The time is not now... but soon. Soon.