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Favre4Ever

The Baltimore Riots

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I didn't say just give black people money lol. I don't have to coach football to discuss football with Butta, as long as I have knowledge and facts to back it up. I don't have to go study law for years to discuss the law with Oochymp, as long as I have knowledge and facts to back it up. I just offered you a professor of sociology at the University of Cincinnati as my source and I'm willing to provide a transcription of the interview and what she's said. I'm sure she is much more experienced than you in the topic of race relations. The simple fact is you don't want to acknowledge anything I say because you think you know it all on the subject because you've had people in your life who are black. There is no way to say "I know more than you, accept it" and win an argument. That's what you're trying to do.

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As I said I'm not saying racism is 100% gone. Same clothes? Sure, the shopkeeper would be more concerned about race there. I'm trying to point out how much wealth influences it. How you present yourself is a major piece in how you're judged. Again, to be removed from those stereotypes you need to remove them from their stereotype. Higher poverty means more crime. More crime means more stereotyping. There is no button that ends all racism, but if we can remove people from being in poverty (and therefore being more likely to commit a crime and therefore more likely to be stereotyped) than we can begin to end stereotypes. It's on loop right now, and there's only one way to break that loop.

 

The idea that seeing a black man in suit and tie immediately makes people think drug dealer or affirmative action is incredibly misguided. I know personally that the younger generation is much less racist and likely to make judgements.

 

You are talking down to me like you're somehow much more informed than I am on the subject as a whole. I've never been "intimate" to the same level as you with a black woman, but I don't have to be to understand the situation. Your personal experiences don't give you an edge on me when it comes to this argument. You can't write me off because you think you're more well-qualified to talk about a particular demographic.

 

I've actually talked to a UC professor of sociology about this, and her answer to almost every problem on race or minorities is that it comes back to the economy. The reason blacks are mistreated in comparison to whites is often due to our various levels of income. It all ties back to the money.

 

If you're going to condescend me, I'm not going to debate with you. We each have our individual perspectives due to how we have lived our lives. This insight is good for both of us. If you simply talk down to me because I don't have the exact same experiences as you, I'd rather not discuss this at all.

 

I'll dig up the transcripts from the interview with the professor, if you'd like.

 

This isn't misguided at all. It's the reality of the situation for many.

 

Psychological studies on top of psychological studies have been done on this, and all have come to conclusions very similar.

@Dmac--Nothing excuses injuring law enforcement members who did not partake in mistreatment of Freddie Gray, and nothing excuses destruction of other peoples' property.

 

They are animals, end of discussion. You can't make a stand by destroying the very ground upon which plan to make it.

 

It so easy, isn't it BWare? It's so easy to talk down, and name call people who have experienced oppression that you probably will never come close to feeling.

 

Your apathy, and understand of others is noticed and appreciated.

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Then let's see it. But I'm betting if you ask any black person, even here... they would say money doesn't make any difference in why they are treated the way they are. So do you or does your professor know more than the people who actually go through it? Aren't you doing the same thing you accuse me of doing?

 

"lol I'll just show him an interview from an expert so that makes my view right."

 

Cool. Good luck with that. Meanwhile, I'll take the words and experiences over actual black people who experience this stuff over yours any way. You're just so lost it's unreal. Please go out and get some real life experience. I can see why Ngata got pissed at you, to be honest... but I'm not like him. I won't rage quit and leave here. I'll just continue to tell you you're wrong and tell you how you're wrong.

 

You can bring up all the "facts" and stats you want, but again... those are not substitutes for what black people actually go through. You've never had people crying on your shoulder at 3 AM and venting their frustrations to you. You've never had your girlfriend of a different ethnic group disrespected right to your FACE. You've never had someone in your life treated unfairly by the police due to the color of their skin. I have. He didn't get killed obviously, but they did beat him up and found all kinds of ways to cite him for breaking certain laws. They ruined his reputation over a simple speeding ticket. And money has nothing to do with it at all...

 

Richard Sherman has more money than anyone here will ever have combined.... did that stop people from calling him a thug and basically an "n-word" after the Crabtree incident? Nope. Because at that point they didn't see him as a rich athlete. They saw him as a black man. And they saw his behavior as a threat. If a white guy acted the way Sherman does at times, nobody would say anything. But a black guy does it and it's aggressive and thuggish.

 

Every time you post, you show me just how young and naive you are. Please get some real life experience... it will do you a world of good.

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The professor of Sociology at the University of Cincinnati who has written multiple books on the subject and has traveled to other nations to understand racism doesn't know more than Sarge.

 

Ngata was pissed at me because he saw me as immature and put his own experience over an entire universe of varying interactions. You're doing the same thing. You wouldn't debate Oochy in law but you'd take your word over a professor's word? I understand this is a touchy subject for you, but you have to look beyond your own experiences to see the entirety of the situation.

 

I'll go look for the transcription.

 

 

It's an audio file still, I believe, and I can't get it to share through my phone. Likely late this Saturday I'll be able to get it to you. I'll get the section about race and economics for you. There is a nice quote from our magazine though that used Casanova. "If you change people's economic situation, then everything else changes too. It's all tied together."

Edited by Chernobyl426
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You totally ignored 3/4th's of my post.... and Dmac's. Yep, you and your professor know more about racism than people who actually experience it and people who love/loved those who experience it.

 

Chernobyl, please.

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I didn't ignore 3/4ths of your post. I'm stating that my source is credible, which you don't seem to believe. That's the most important part of this entire argument. You think you're more well-informed than someone who studies the shit for a living.

 

I'm gonna try to contact Casanova soon and I'll let you know what I get back. It could take a few weeks to get a response though.

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I am at least interested to see what your source's actual thoughts are... but you keep blasting me for doing the EXACT SAME THING you're doing. Can you please just be mature and realize that both of us have let our emotions get the best of us in this thread? I hope that's not asking too much. You can quit pointing your finger at me now. We're both guilty.

 

Me because I've actually experienced this stuff and feel like you're not able to understand... and you're not even taking the words of an actual black person, who knows way more about this than either of us...... and you, because I say things like that... haha.

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Lol it is what it is. It's cool. Emotions play a big role in this sorta stuff.

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This isn't misguided at all. It's the reality of the situation for many.

 

Psychological studies on top of psychological studies have been done on this, and all have come to conclusions very similar.

 

It so easy, isn't it BWare? It's so easy to talk down, and name call people who have experienced oppression that you probably will never come close to feeling.

 

Your apathy, and understand of others is noticed and appreciated.

I don't understand where the divide is here. I completely understand the way in which I cannot fathom the oppression faced by the African American community, but I also can't fathom any set of circumstances that justify violence toward other individuals and the destruction of property that belongs to other individuals.

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My last point is this: if money meant anything toward racism, then why are poor white people heavily racist toward any black person, regardless of that person's economic position? Kinda goes back to the Sherman thing I brought up, which you didn't address. Maybe your source could shed some light on that.

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Could kinda be flipped where incredibly poor blacks are often very racist too, I guess. Less education and knowledge in general on race means more backward ass ideologies and decisions.

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Chernobyl, the issue is that whoever told you what he told you about social classes being the issue in today's society is that it's inaccurate, and frankly, is the reason why real progress isn't ever being achieved. It may be true to a certain extent, as much as other factors such as neighborhood segregation, formation of family, etc, but at the end of the day, it all comes back to racism.

 

The man you are quoting (who's work I actually think you should post, cause I'm curious) seems to have a naive view of the world that racism isn't alive and well today, but rather that class wars is all that's left. While there is some truth to be had there, to fully believe that is a problem. And this sentiment that the professor you bought up shares is one that many other people share. The sentiment (that I'm assuming he has, according to what you're saying) is that racism is no longer the bigger issue, and rather, it's been replaced by classicism. This mindset is a very dangerous one to have because it opens the door for some extreme ignorant, and faulty logic. It gives people a distorted view of the world around them, and then when racism happens around you, you see classicism when in reality, it's racism.

 

They think certain things happen because of someone's class and economic identity when it couldn't be further from the truth. The fact of the matter is that classicism is a part of racism.

 

While I think it's great that you've talked to this guy, etc, using his word to try to argue back against Sarge's because of his supposed knowledge and experience is appealing to authority. It's a massive argument fallacy. Maybe I'm exaggerating how much you've bought up his credentials, and I am, sorry. Lol.

 

The issue is that there is a difference between prejudice and actual racism (or at least from the way it's described today). And both are very real.

 

Prejudice is what Sarge is talking about, and it's very real, and its based on stereotypes. We all have them, but the ones (stereotypes) surrounding African Americans in this country are more negative then with any other races. Everything Sarge says I've seen happen, and I've heard of happening to everyone around me. I was blessed unlike others around me to go to school at a place (Ann Arbor, considered by many to be the best place to live in the US) that was far away from where I lived (Detroit). I didn't see these things often myself, but I heard about it all the time from people in my area. I heard about it even more when I started attending college from friends and acquaintances. I've even met some of the coolest white people who have admitted to having some of these negative stereotypes shoved down their throats and it being something they didn't even realize until it was bought up. And not only do African Americans have more negative stereotypes, and prejudices around them, but with African Americans (being that they are a minority group) have a far bigger chance of those prejudices turning into discrimination, and racism.

 

The simple fact of the matter is (Please note, we don't all believe all these stereotypes/prejudices, and we don't all act on them, if it don't apply, let it fly!):

 

In many parts of the US, people are more likely to be stopped by police because they are black. This is a reality. See: Ferguson and many parts of Missouri. Why? Because blacks are stereo-typically viewed as thugs, or always up to no good. If a cop says that the black person was aggressive with him, whether true or not, more people are likely to believe him then if someone of another race, or just white said it.

 

Blacks in many parts of the US are less likely to get a job then a white person, even when they have the same level of education. Many psychological research has been done on this and while some are controversial, they pretty much prove this.

 

Even in everyday situations, you can see the many ways with which the negative stereotypes around African Americans play out in the way some people act. And this isn't from 10 years ago, 5 years ago, etc, it's situations we see play out every day in many places around the US and even the world. Media coverage of situations, where something is called one thing if done by someone of one race rather then the other. Pictures they use, etc etc etc.

 

People who think the solution to this is just to somehow fix the economy, whatever that may mean are in for a rude awakening. The true way to fix these issues? I honestly have no clue. This has been an issue forever, and there are people both on this board and around the world who probably have more knowledge and understanding of how complex this and other issues like it are then me.

 

But what I do know, is that this is way more complex then just a class and economy thing.

I don't understand where the divide is here. I completely understand the way in which I cannot fathom the oppression faced by the African American community, but I also can't fathom any set of circumstances that justify violence toward other individuals and the destruction of property that belongs to other individuals.

 

 

I can't either. But to call them animals? How is that any different then just calling them primitives and less then humans?

 

Especially when all most of them see, hear, and live everyday is poverty, etc, and the minute they speak up about it, people nod their heads like they actually care and then just go back to living in bliss. I just don't think it's fair. Even saying they are acting like animals is better then straight up calling them animals.

 

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Just imagine I posted "I completely agree" in response to everything Sarge and Dmac has said.

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Chernobyl, the issue is that whoever told you what he told you about social classes being the issue in today's society is that it's inaccurate, and frankly, is the reason why real progress isn't ever being achieved. It may be true to a certain extent, as much as other factors such as neighborhood segregation, formation of family, etc, but at the end of the day, it all comes back to racism.

 

The man you are quoting (who's work I actually think you should post, cause I'm curious) seems to have a naive view of the world that racism isn't alive and well today, but rather that class wars is all that's left. While there is some truth to be had there, to fully believe that is a problem. And this sentiment that the professor you bought up shares is one that many other people share. The sentiment (that I'm assuming he has, according to what you're saying) is that racism is no longer the bigger issue, and rather, it's been replaced by classicism. This mindset is a very dangerous one to have because it opens the door for some extreme ignorant, and faulty logic. It gives people a distorted view of the world around them, and then when racism happens around you, you see classicism when in reality, it's racism.

 

They think certain things happen because of someone's class and economic identity when it couldn't be further from the truth. The fact of the matter is that classicism is a part of racism.

 

I disagree. Classicism is not inherently racism. See: India and the caste system. People look down on the poor and the homeless all the time. There's a few homeless guys that hang out around my workplace. The responses from people are either to buy them a meal or to treat them like crap. 4 of the 5 are white. Racism ain't got anything to do with it.

 

Then you have the people who blame everything on racism. For example, a lady came into Subway the other day and wanted to try a sample of like three different things. I informed her we didn't give out samples. Her immediate conclusion was that because she was black and I was white, I had to be racist. That had to be why I wouldn't give her a sample, not because my boss had explicitly told me not to give out samples.

 

Is racism still alive? Yes. But just because a black guy is killed by a white cop does not automatically mean racism was involved in any way. The public at large has come to the conclusion that any killing of a black person by a white person is automatically racism. The media hammers this message. They hardly touched the story of the Bohemian immigrant who was beaten to death by a group of black teenagers who were rioting over what happened in Ferguson. Why? It doesn't fit the storyline.

Edited by Thanatos19
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go back in your homes and shut up

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Guest Phailadelphia

Lots of undesirable "mansplaining" (whitesplaining?) going on in the last couple of pages.

 

You totally ignored 3/4th's of my post.... and Dmac's. Yep, you and your professor know more about racism than people who actually experience it and people who love/loved those who experience it.

 

Chernobyl, please.

 

You should have said 3/5ths just for the lulz

 

 

Just imagine I posted "I completely agree" in response to everything Sarge and Dmac has said.

 

Same

Edited by Phailadelphia

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I can't either. But to call them animals? How is that any different then just calling them primitives and less then humans?

 

Especially when all most of them see, hear, and live everyday is poverty, etc, and the minute they speak up about it, people nod their heads like they actually care and then just go back to living in bliss. I just don't think it's fair. Even saying they are acting like animals is better then straight up calling them animals.

 

 

I admit it was harsh, but I just don't know how to say it otherwise. They're hurting people who didn't commit the crime they're rioting over. They're destroying and looting property for essentially no reason, as none of this is accomplishing anything.

 

I mean, consider what it's doing being on the news 24/7 right now. All their violence is doing is perpetuating stereotypes. They're undermining what the AA community has fought for for all of these years. I'll retract the word animals, because I can see your point. At the same time, what is the proper word?

Edited by BwareDWare94
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Shitheels? Shitheel is probably the word. The sad thing is whenever any black person does something, the entire race is held accountable for their actions. When a white guy shoots up a school, we don't get shit in the media like "All these Whiteys can't be trusted around our children." Yet when a black guy loots it's all "these people are animals."

 

Shitheels suck.

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^Thank you, Jim Lahey!

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Guest Phailadelphia

 

I admit it was harsh, but I just don't know how to say it otherwise. They're hurting people who didn't commit the crime they're rioting over. They're destroying and looting property for essentially no reason, as none of this is accomplishing anything.

 

I mean, consider what it's doing being on the news 24/7 right now. All their violence is doing is perpetuating stereotypes. They're undermining what the AA community has fought for for all of these years. I'll retract the word animals, because I can see your point. At the same time, what is the proper word?

 

What the black community has fought for all these years is for white people to stop being racist and oppressive. When you and other say things like rioters are "undermining" what the black community has fought for, what you're really saying is that the black community needs to justify their freedom or justify why America shouldn't enslave or segregate them. In other words, that black people don't possess an inalienable right to freedom. I don't think that's what you actually mean, but words matter. Fix your terminology.

Edited by Phailadelphia
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You're putting words in his mouth. You took "undermining efforts" as needing to justify why they shouldn't be enslaved. What are ya doing phail?

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This thread still makes me facepalm... all these days later. lol

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http://abcnews.go.com/US/freddie-grays-death-ruled-homicide-states-attorney/story?id=30728026

I wish every single rioter could have been beaten down and locked up (not simple protesters.. Rioters, causing damage to another's property, etc.). And half the officers that are now facing charges are black. Lmao. Fuck white people man. Fuck them so hard.

 

The mayor needs to be arrested and facing charges as well, IMO. It was her dumb ass that incited most of this to begin with.

King, the niece of renowned black civil rights leader Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., called Rawlings-Blake out after her admission of desiring to provide space for Baltimore rioters "who wished to destroy" in protest against the death and alleged torture of Freddie Gray, who was captured on video during his arrest.

Rawlings-Blake essentially gave Baltimore rioters a free ticket to break the law and destroy the city without consequences.

"I've made it very clear that I work with the police and instructed them to do everything that they could to make sure that the protesters were able to exercise their right to free speech," Rawlings-Blake announced at a Saturday night press conference.

 

http://www.onenewsnow.com/culture/2015/04/30/alveda-king-baltimore-mayor-invited-violence#.VURuqflViko

All this talk of oppression... Yet half of the people being held responsible for the death of Freddie Gray are black. Yet the mayor of Baltimore, who is black, allows rioters (who are mostly black) to break the law and create dozens of victims beyond the initial crime. Yet the chief prosecutor, who is also black, takes weeks and weeks to conduct an investigation and finally file charges.

Mmmmhm. Oppression. Right.

#BlackLivesMatterButOnlyWhenThereAreWhitePeopleToBlame

Edited by Favre4Ever

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This thread still makes me facepalm... all these days later. lol

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This is pretty simple. Where there's poverty, there's crime, especially in a large city and when heroin is the cities biggest industry in the city it effects everyone negatively. I hate the police, but I wouldn't want to be a cop in Baltimore. You have a lot of career criminals because selling drugs and robbing people is a lot more profitable than a minimum wage or around minimum wage job when you have to eat. People on both sides have done wrong, but it's off base to act like all the Baltimore cops are scumbags or all the black people in Baltimore are scumbags. Both are in shitty situations and we're seeing something that's been an issue for years finally coming to a head. The biggest thing that would help this situation is bringing good jobs to Baltimore. It would be safer for cops and citizens and people would have pride in their neighborhoods. That probably won't happen though because no politician gives a rats ass about poverty in this country. It's all about corporations making as big of profits as possible without ever giving back.

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