It just keeps happening

[oochymp 2,393]

 

If that's true then these guys fucked up something awful. But my point still stands. I think in general it's a good idea to have officers who speak Spanish in heavy Latino populated areas.

in general I definitely agree, I'm just not sure that particular fuck up was one of the fuck ups committed in this incident

[Thanatos 2,847]

in general I definitely agree, I'm just not sure that particular fuck up was one of the fuck ups committed in this incident

 

I was going based off an initial report that appears to have been redacted as the link no longer functions. That perhaps may not have been the case after all.

 

Perhaps the victim was merely distracted by the murderers cops yelling at him and pulling guns on him when he and his friend were trying to explain they didn't steal the bike.

 

On another note: From the cops point of view, they thought they were accosting the bike thieves. In what universe does stealing a bike equal a crime that needs the threat of lethal force? Why would you pull a gun on a bike thief? It's so fucking stupid.

 

I disagree with your earlier point, or rather I think you misinterpreted my statement.

 

Cops lives are not above those whom they serve- i.e. they don't get to preemptively shoot someone because they merely think that person is about to draw a weapon. Basically, I am saying if you put an average citizen in the same situation, and if the result of that situation means that the citizen would get arrested for murder, then the cops answer was inappropriate, irrelevant of the fact that they are a cop.

 

It doesn't mean they must see the firearm before opening fire, but it does mean they at least need probable cause that the suspect has a firearm before opening fire.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Thanatos19

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

 

I was going based off an initial report that appears to have been redacted as the link no longer functions. That perhaps may not have been the case after all.

 

Perhaps the victim was merely distracted by the murderers cops yelling at him and pulling guns on him when he and his friend were trying to explain they didn't steal the bike.

 

On another note: From the cops point of view, they thought they were accosting the bike thieves. In what universe does stealing a bike equal a crime that needs the threat of lethal force? Why would you pull a gun on a bike thief? It's so fucking stupid.

 

I disagree with your earlier point, or rather I think you misinterpreted my statement.

 

Cops lives are not above those whom they serve- i.e. they don't get to preemptively shoot someone because they merely think that person is about to draw a weapon. Basically, I am saying if you put an average citizen in the same situation, and if the result of that situation means that the citizen would get arrested for murder, then the cops answer was inappropriate, irrelevant of the fact that they are a cop.

 

It doesn't mean they must see the firearm before opening fire, but it does mean they at least need probable cause that the suspect has a firearm before opening fire.

 

In regards to why they responded with their weapons drawn is likely because they were told the bike thief(thieves?) had a weapon(s?).

 

I haven't seen the full report so I have no idea if that was really the case, but given each cop there had their weapon drawn, that would seem like the likely explanation.

 

And yeah in regards to the firearm aspect I agree. Like I said in my first post I thought the guy was gonna get shot when he reached in to his back pocket, where a weapon could very well be hidden(but that would only be an appropriate response if they were dealing with someone who had been violent, and if they weren't being told by the people there that the guy didn't steal the bike).

 

Another issue with them opening fire in the way they did was that guy was standing right next to two other people who were being completely compliant/showing no aggression themselves. They actually hit the guy standing to the right of the man they killed and lodged a bullet near his spine. He lived, thankfully, but when you open fire on someone standing next to two innocent bystanders, you've got a lot to answer for..especially when said person hasn't really given you a reason to open fire.

[oochymp 2,393]

I disagree with your earlier point, or rather I think you misinterpreted my statement.

 

Cops lives are not above those whom they serve- i.e. they don't get to preemptively shoot someone because they merely think that person is about to draw a weapon. Basically, I am saying if you put an average citizen in the same situation, and if the result of that situation means that the citizen would get arrested for murder, then the cops answer was inappropriate, irrelevant of the fact that they are a cop.

 

It doesn't mean they must see the firearm before opening fire, but it does mean they at least need probable cause that the suspect has a firearm before opening fire.

I think you may be misunderstanding me as well, I'm not saying officers should get a blank check or be able to shoot first and ask questions later, just that we should acknowledge that they're asked to go into situations that could present any level of danger and not be surprised when they go in with the assumption that the person they're about to question or arrest might have a weapon on them, because it's really hard to react if you're surprised by the appearance of a weapon.

 

I would like to re-iterate, however, that the officers in the case we're discussing acted inappropriately throughout what we've seen of the encounter so to me this discussion is purely academic in that it has little to no application to the specific case we're discussing. I agree with you (and have stated multiple times in this thread) that the officers should not have approached with guns drawn and pointed at the suspects. Apparently they were mistakenly told that the perps might have weapons (which even giving the most leeway is still an error on the part of the police department) but that doesn't mean the officers should already have their guns drawn and pointed at the suspects. As I said before, the biggest rule of gun safety is never point your gun at anything you're not ready to shoot, which tells you a lot about either the officers' intent or their respect for the consequences of shooting someone, either way it's not a good look for the officers.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

my turn to do what? justify murder? not gonna do it (FTR, I don't think that's what Mav was doing either, just asking an honest question)

 

I'm typically a police apologist but there's no excuse for this, any part of it, the biggest question I have is why the hell did they already have their guns drawn when they approached?

[oochymp 2,393]

The Transcript Of Sandra Bland's Arrest Is As Revealing As The Video

 

no fucking excuse

[Cherry 1,302]

Both escalated the situation Police officer should've definitely been more passive though.

[Cherry 1,302]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=12&v=T-9NTBTDkvs

 

You guys would like this.

 

 

Had only saw transcripts of other one. After seeing video I 100% agree that the cop was fucking stupid.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Chernobyl426

[oochymp 2,393]

Both escalated the situation Police officer should've definitely been more passive though.

but the fact that the cop had the balls to report that he'd tried to de-escalate the situation

[Sarge+ 3,436]

http://www.cbsnews.com/live/video/bodycam-video-released-in-cincinnati-shooting/

 

[Cherry 1,302]

I swear if we have fucking riots after already having the cop confirmed guilty...

[RazorStar 4,025]

Only until the world has been set ablaze and it's charred corpse is all that remains, can we begin to rebuild off our mistakes. Blood unto blood, let the world burn, baby.

[Bucman 891]

I swear if we have fucking riots after already having the cop confirmed guilty...

I hope they do riot. Fuck cops anymore. So many videos are being released now that body cams are the norm proving that not all cops should be allowed to carry a weapon.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Bucman

[seanbrock 1,684]

Both escalated the situation Police officer should've definitely been more passive though.

the cop is a professional. Almost everybody has to deal with attitude day to day or at least sometimes in life but if I beat the shit out of somebody at work because I don't like their attitude I go to jail. Absolutely no questions asked. Plus even though she she gave him attitude the only law she broke was switching lanes without signaling. She didn't have to put out her cigarette legally. This cop is 100% guilty and should be locked up for life.

[Cherry 1,302]

I hope they do riot. Fuck cops anymore.

No fuck that. You don't tear up my fucking town because you're angry at cops. That's a fucking stupid idea. If they riot I hope they get put right back in their damn place. If you want to protest over the shooting, protest. Don't burn down the city. Cincinnati police have already been spooked as shit lately due to the death of Sonny Kim. We don't need a war in Cincy.

[RazorStar 4,025]

You make it sound like the war hasn't started yet, Cherry. It'll be a long time before the poor citizenry and the police end their war.

[Cherry 1,302]

You make it sound like the war hasn't started yet, Cherry. It'll be a long time before the poor citizenry and the police end their war.

 

Sorry I don't want where I live to look like this.

 

[OSUViking 505]

I swear if we have fucking riots after already having the cop confirmed guilty...

 

Right, I've been pretty critical of how cops have handled these arrests and everything (especially the one in South Carolina where the cop could have ran the guy down), but this one is just grasping at straws. I've watched this video plenty of times, and the only thing I see the cop doing wrong is being a bit aggressive with opening the door.

 

The cop was not aggressive to this man at all. He asked for a license numerous times, and he got frustrated when the man refused to comply. Cops get like this every single time someone does this. It's not a white or black thing, or a brutality thing, it's just how things go when you refuse to comply with cops. It's really unfortunate that he died, but I have seen cops pull their weapons for smaller things.

 

I'm not trying to justify this man's death, the cop (although I don't think it's unreasonable to draw a gun when someone is being pulled along) could have handled the situation better by not being so direct with opening the door. But it's undeniable that if this man just simply complies and doesn't try to drive off, he is still alive.

 

Again, this is a very unfortunate and totally avoidable death. But, it's not like other cases where this is just a case of a cop intentionally being aggressive with the man. There are plenty of cases of cops killing men that are worthy of protest, but I just don't think this is one of them. I'd be kind of disappointed if this results in riots so close to me.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

 

I think it might be a good idea for everyone to watch this.

[FartWaffles 1,857]

I think it might be a good idea for everyone to watch this.

Just playing devil's advocate... The cop was being an asshat, but that doesn't necessarily mean we should glorify this man.

 

http://6abc.com/news/philadelphia-traffic-stop-caught-on-video-sparks-controversy/620616/

 

PHILADELPHIA (WPVI) -- A video of a traffic stop by 15th district officers in Philadelphia has gone viral with more than 1 million views. The man in the video says officers abused their power but police are painting a very different picture.

 

28-year-old Tony Soto recorded the traffic stop on his cellphone.

 

"I am not anti-police, I support the police. I just don't support police abusing their powers," Soto told Action News.

 

In the video, Soto showed his license, but refused to show his registration.

 

Police are concerned about Soto's motives and criminal past.

 

"We are going to tell our officers to be cautious. It raises your level of suspicion when you have a person - a prior felony - and has had some prior interaction with the law and has been known to interact with guns. So we are going to tell our officers to be careful," said Lt. John Sanford, Philadelphia Police.

 

Soto sat down with Action News to discuss the controversial video.

 

"This traffic stop, just brought to light an ongoing issue that is continually denied all over our nation with individuals being stopped and in some cases being racially profiled," said Soto.

 

Soto says the officers who stopped him were not African-American but police say differently.

 

"They were African American officers," said Lt. Stanford.

 

The original reason for the stop was for tinted windows.

 

Soto flashed a paper at the officer saying he had a medical exemption from PennDOT for sun screening on his car, but he didn't bring that letter to our meeting.

 

"If you were provided that certificate from PennDOT, it has to be colorless tint," said Lt. Stanford.

 

We asked Soto if his windows were dark tinted.

 

"Okay in your opinion or anyone else's opinion from watching the video tape - that's their opinion. No one knows what tint is on my vehicle, whether it's colored or colorless, although it may look dark," said Soto.

 

And then there's this - in the video, Soto held up a card and badge identifying himself to the officer as a fire marshal.

 

We asked him if he's a fire marshal.

 

"The tape speaks for itself and, at this point, okay let's not take the focus as to who I am or what I do or what is going on and let's keep the focus on what is really going on. It is not about Tony Soto," said Soto.

 

So who is Soto?

 

He's a felon, sentenced to 33 months in federal prison for straw purchasing firearms.

 

He has multiple convictions for theft, fleeing from police, and was convicted of impersonating a public servant in 2005 and now claims he is a volunteer firefighter.

 

We asked Soto where he works.

 

"Well we are going to - you are going to stop that right there alright - we are going to stop that and we are not going to go into that," said Soto.

 

Police are also cautioning the public not to use Soto's video as an example of what to do during a traffic stop.

 

While it is legal to record video, the Pennsylvania vehicle code requires drivers to turn over their identification and registration.

 

In addition, the Fraternal Order of Police is now asking authorities to pursue charges against Soto for allegedly impersonating a public servant.

[OSUViking 505]

What really bothers me is how people are turning radically anti-cop. There are some legitimate assholes out there, but it's kind of hard to screen against them. People are good at hiding behavioral characteristics like racism and just general douchebagery.

 

Even as countless videos pour out of supposed police brutality and racist cop behavior, I don't think it affects the majority of the police force in our country. Maybe I'm just naive, but I just can't see the majority of cops being like this. One instance of police brutality against anyone is too much, but there's only so much you can do to stop a racist or a psychopath or a douchebag from getting his badge.

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

I didn't view that cop as being an asshat, looked like the guy in the car was the asshole to me.

 

That article just backs that point up further. That guy showing false identification and paperwork that doesn't support his tinted windows as well.

 

I lol at how quickly people jump on cops now adays. Cop didn't even do anything wrong in this video other than apparently mistakenly claim his headlight as being out. Got a felon known to use guns and I don't blame him for opening the door, especially with said felon acting the way he was.

 

He didn't pull his gun on him, didn't threaten him with any harm what so ever, and was trying to confirm the paperwork which the guy wouldn't hand over(and I'm sure if the cop leaned inside the car to read it, this guy and the people who watch the video would have a shitfit over that, too).

[OSUViking 505]

I thought it was illegal for a cop to open the door?

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

On the flip side, cops have to deal with idiots like these:

 

[OSUViking 505]

So if cops actually are allowed to get into the vehicle (as was stated in the vehicle by a cop quoting a law or w/e), then a lot of these "police brutality" things are just people being idiots with cops.