It just keeps happening

[BJORN 679]

The biggest fuckup to me, and where I think all other fuckups originated, is the fact that the initial 911 call said "there's a kid pointing a toy gun at people in the park" (paraphrasing) and somehow that got through dispatch to the officers as "there's a guy at the park pointing a gun at people." Those two situations require vastly different responses and unfortunately the officers were responding to the wrong one.

 

Certainly they could have done a lot of things differently, I'd like to know why they pulled in so close to a guy they apparently suspected to be a potential shooter. By the time they pulled up Rice was about five feet from the door and when the officer stepped out of the passenger side there was nothing between him and Rice. Given that, I'm not surprised at all that he shot as soon as he saw the toy gun. But, if it's me, I'm pulling up at shouting distance (handguns are very inaccurate at any sort of distance) and putting the car somewhere that'll give me some cover when I get out. The officers here didn't do that and as a result they put themselves in a position that increased the potential threat.

Why are the police being called if people know it's a toy gun, Oochy?

[RazorStar 4,025]

It just takes one person who doesn't know it's a toy to call the cops.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

I didn't know that they didn't even do first aid. That's... pretty bad.

 

Doesn't necessarily mean this was racially motivated, but it doesn't look good on them at all.

[oochymp 2,393]

Why are the police being called if people know it's a toy gun, Oochy?

that's a very good question and I would love to hear from the guy who called 911, but odds are he's trying to stay the hell away from this debacle and I can't blame him

 

My best guess is he recognized that it was a really dangerous situation, maybe he even told the kid to stop pointing it at people to no avail, and decided that the police might be able to explain to him why it's a bad idea, maybe even thought the cops might scare him a little bit

[BJORN 679]

that's a very good question and I would love to hear from the guy who called 911, but odds are he's trying to stay the hell away from this debacle and I can't blame him

 

My best guess is he recognized that it was a really dangerous situation, maybe he even told the kid to stop pointing it at people to no avail, and decided that the police might be able to explain to him why it's a bad idea, maybe even thought the cops might scare him a little bit

Sorry was at work and have done more research on this case (watched the video above, listened to both the 911 call and the dispatch call) there in lies the problem as you said. The officers on scene were not given any indication by dispatch that the gun was potentially fake despite the caller saying multiple times that it MAY have been fake. Given the dispatch, I actually understand how they acted as if it were an armed and dangerous person pointing a REAL weapon at folks at a park. Hence, why they zoomed onto the scene and the rest is history really.

 

I also think it's very easy to criticize police officers when you are not in their shoes. In the heat of the moment, I honestly don't know what I would do in some of these situations. And people need to realize that human nature and error will always be a possibility involving police force. I feel for everyone involved in this case, it is beyond tragic. And maybe you do sue the police for negligence in this scenario (i/e dispatch or the officers on scene for failing to provide first aid..I don't know the protocol on that) but I don't blame the officers on scene for their approach or the shooting based on what I've seen.

 

Looking at wikipedia, it seemed like originally there were inconsistencies between the report and the video....I have a big problem with that if they are trying to cover up or save face, I mean the video is awful. And furthermore, I do think we need justice reform in order to ensure cops are given fair & proper trials as you pointed out earlier.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Which is complete speculation and largely based on bullshit media talk. As I said, the cops made a few of fuckups. Go after them for those fuckups, not on some bullshit racial allegations.

 

Not really. The statistics overwhelmingly agree w/ Blots.

[Thanatos 2,847]

And we'll just ignore cases like the one where the cop tries to force his way into a guy's home and shoots him because of it since that man is white.

 

This is not a black/white race thing. It's a class thing.

 

As far as the Rice case in particular, the officers were stupid to pull up next to him if they thought it was a real gun, and if they didn't think it was a real gun, why did they shoot, obviously.

 

I hadn't heard they didn't do first aid, is there an official reason why they didn't do any first aid?

[BwareDWare94 723]

And we'll just ignore cases like the one where the cop tries to force his way into a guy's home and shoots him because of it since that man is white.

 

This is not a black/white race thing. It's a class thing.

 

As far as the Rice case in particular, the officers were stupid to pull up next to him if they thought it was a real gun, and if they didn't think it was a real gun, why did they shoot, obviously.

 

I hadn't heard they didn't do first aid, is there an official reason why they didn't do any first aid?

 

"Oh shit oh shit oh shit oh shit oh shit, we fucked up we fucked up we fucked up, what do we do, what do we do, what do we do? That's what happens when you fire your weapon? Oh shit oh shit oh shit..."

[RazorStar 4,025]

"What do you mean do first aid, I ain't touching that."

[Cherry 1,302]

This is not a black/white race thing.

 

[Thanatos 2,847]

I'm not really agreeing with you Chern. It's still an issue worth rioting over and worth showing displeasure. I just think its rich vs poor more than black vs white.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

I'm not really agreeing with you Chern. It's still an issue worth rioting over and worth showing displeasure. I just think its rich vs poor more than black vs white.

 

Yea, but why are there so many poor black people?

 

Issues of race and class are usually tied together.

[Cherry 1,302]

"Worth rioting over"

 

 

Issues of class are more based around the difficulty of breaking into the wealthiest category than pure racism or targeted hatred. It's sickening that the top 1% own so much, but it's not a race thing.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Chernobyl426

[blotsfan 2,112]

Chernobyl, you really don't think theres a reason black people are a lot more likely to be poor than white people?*

 

 

 

*If you say its because black people are inherently worse then you might as well get fitted for klan robes.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

"Worth rioting over"

 

 

Issues of class are more based around the difficulty of breaking into the wealthiest category than pure racism or targeted hatred. It's sickening that the top 1% own so much, but it's not a race thing.

 

Black and Hispanic youths are unemployed at double the rate of white youths.

 

No racism though?

[Cherry 1,302]

 

Black and Hispanic youths are unemployed at double the rate of white youths.

 

No racism though?

 

That's due to lack of jobs in impoverished communities, not racism.

[Cherry 1,302]

Chernobyl, you really don't think theres a reason black people are a lot more likely to be poor than white people?*

 

 

 

*If you say its because black people are inherently worse then you might as well get fitted for klan robes.

 

Because they started poor. Those who came to America as slaves and were set free had little to nothing when they initially were granted freedom. Their descendants were fucked because the rich tend to get richer and the poor tend to get poorer.

 

*puts on the klan robes*

[oochymp 2,393]

 

Because they started poor. Those who came to America as slaves and were set free had little to nothing when they initially were granted freedom. Their descendants were fucked because the rich tend to get richer and the poor tend to get poorer.

 

*puts on the klan robes*

Do you really think it's not a problem that the disparity hasn't been corrected a bit more in the last 150 years? Isn't America supposed to be the land of opportunity?

[BwareDWare94 723]

Do you really think it's not a problem that the disparity hasn't been corrected a bit more in the last 150 years? Isn't America supposed to be the land of opportunity?

 

It would have corrected more if America truly was the land of the exact same opportunity for everybody regardless of race, sex, religion, or class, but it's not.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

 

That's due to lack of jobs in impoverished communities, not racism.

 

Are you so naive that you can't see the link between the two?

 

Candidates with "black" names are significantly less likely to get a call back from potential employers

 

Minorities, especially black people, receive harsher convictions than whites for the same crimes

 

White men with criminal records are more likely to receive a call black than a black man without a criminal record, and the unemployment rate for black college graduates is 12.4% versus 5.6% for the overall 4-year degree holding population

 

When "forced integration" occurs in America, it works. Test scores for black students rise...until the white families all leave town. This is not a thing of the past; it is still happening.

 

Minorities are paid less than their white counterparts and are more likely to be passed over for raises and promotions

 

All that and we haven't even breached America's legacy of racism yet!

 

I can link you literally hundreds of articles like the above. Better yet, read some black literature. And I don't mean MLK or other well-known authors you heard about in high school. Read some of the really inflammatory shit by WEB DuBois or Malcolm X (you can even find great interviews with X on Youtube). Read some Richard Wright, the king of black intellectuals (Black Boy is fantastic). Read Ta-Nehisi Coates, who might be the most brilliant human alive right now and who will give you a modern day perspective of race relations in America. But if you read or watch one thing, make it Obama's "A More Perfect Union" speech. It's one of the greatest speeches on civil rights in American history. And I've recommended these individuals because they're some of the smartest people you'll ever read, which is to say they are not full of shit. Their works are very well thought out, thought-provoking, insightful, and profound.

 

I know you're young and I used to think a lot like you when I was in high school, but the rosy pictures painted in text books does not portray an accurate description of the real world. I don't think anyone will hold against you some of the ignorant shit you've said in this thread, but if you take your worldview and opinions anywhere outside your immediate bubble you're going to realize how poorly thought out they are.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Phailadelphia

[Guest Phailadelphia]

And if you need LIVE evidence that minorities are treated differently than whites, look no further than the media coverage of these heavily-armed clowns who seized federal property in Oregon as their "base" of operations for "years to come" and threatening to shoot any police or govt that try to confront and arrest them versus any current minority movement (ie. Black Lives Matter). Or contrast how the police and govt will handle the situation versus how they've handled BLM. Think about how the police or govt would react if it were black folks or Muslims who seized the property armed with assault rifles.

 

Aaaand there it is: http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/cnn-analyst-white-militiamen-arent-a-threat-like-black-protesters-because-theyre-not-looting-anything/

Edited January 4, 2016 by Phailadelphia

[Cherry 1,302]

Do you really think it's not a problem that the disparity hasn't been corrected a bit more in the last 150 years? Isn't America supposed to be the land of opportunity?

We are actively working on that. I'd like to think we're incredibly progressive for minorities.

[BucD+ 648]

And if you need LIVE evidence that minorities are treated differently than whites, look no further than the media coverage of these heavily-armed clowns who seized federal property in Oregon as their "base" of operations for "years to come" and threatening to shoot any police or govt that try to confront and arrest them versus any current minority movement (ie. Black Lives Matter). Or contrast how the police and govt will handle the situation versus how they've handled BLM. Think about how the police or govt would react if it were black folks or Muslims who seized the property armed with assault rifles.

 

Aaaand there it is: http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/cnn-analyst-white-militiamen-arent-a-threat-like-black-protesters-because-theyre-not-looting-anything/

 

So fucking true and what in the actual FUCK @ that link...

[Cherry 1,302]

@phail just want you to know I'm not ignoring your posts or anything. I'm not home right now so I can't read the links you posted in their entirety or compose a full argument on why poverty is the bigger issue over racism. That said I will respond to the whole "youth" thing. I completely understand the perspective that you guys are facing. Obviously I don't have the life experience that you guys do, and arguably less knowledge. I'm perfectly fine with that being used against me. It's when you act like a holier-than-thou dick that it gets too far.

[oochymp 2,393]

poverty is the bigger issue over racism.

I don't think anyone is arguing that poverty isn't a major issue, just stating the fact that poverty and racial issues are inextricably tied right now in the US