DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Last year's can be found here: http://www.thegridironpalace.com/forums/index.php?/topic/70350-top-10-sg/ A lot of players who were on this list last year aren't this year. Which I guess speaks at how weak in general the position is outside of the top. Which hopefully should make for a somewhat interesting conversation... Anyway, like with the previous thread, your opinion/critiques/personal rankings are welcomed. Especially since I won't be able to post the next group until Tuesday night, at which point this thread will probably be dead. Lol. I'll probably post the next 3 tomorrow morning before I leave. 12. Victor Oladipo 18 PPG/ 4.2 TRB/ 1.7 STLs/ 4.1 AST/ 2.8 TOs 16 PER/ 44% FG/ 34% 3P/ 47% eFG/ 53% TS Why he’s not in the top 10: Oladipo made the move from PG to SG and I’d say it went very well his first year at the position. He was asked to shoot more, and carry a bigger load on offense and he responded well, shooting better from virtually everywhere. He was also one of the most aggressive players in the league this year as only three shooting guards drove to the basket more (Elfrid Payton surprisingly drove to the basket more). And he played very good defense. His offense is far from complete though, he eats up too many possessions by just dribbling, and his jumper, while improving is a work in progress. I think he will climb to the top 10 next year. 11. Louis Williams 16 PPG/ 1.9 TRB/ 1.1 STLs/ 2.1 AST/ 1.3 TOs 20 PER/ 40% FG/ 34% 3P/ 49% eFG/ 56% TS Why he’s not in the top 10: Speaking strictly offensively, Williams has an argument for being in the top 10. He takes a little too many 3s imo, but that aside, he gets to the line at an incredible rate which makes his offensive game very efficient despite not being the best shooter around. He was so good on offense this past season that the offense scored nearly 5 points less with him out of the game then in it. The issue with Williams is that if he isn’t getting to the basket, and drawing fouls, his offense crumbles. Defensively Williams is also pretty bad. He isn’t as bad as he was in the past, but even last year he was underwhelming on that side. 10. Kyle Korver 12.1 PPG/ 4.1 TRB/ .7 STLs/ 2.6 AST/ 1.4 TOs 15 PER/ 49% FG/ 49% 3P/ 67% eFG/ 70% TS Why he’s in the top 10: Isn’t it obvious? His three point shooting. It isn’t like me to put a guy in the top 10 because they do one thing well, it is extremely unlike me to put a guy in my top 10 because he does one part of one thing extremely well. But it speaks volumes of how valuable Korver was to the Hawks. First of all, a TS of 70 is unheard of. Even for Korver, that’s ridiculous, and he did it while averaging more 3 pointers then just about any other season outside of one, and he never had a 3 pt FG this high. And his shooting did more then just add tons of points, it completely changed the way teams played the Hawks. I’d go as far as arguing that he was the MVP of that offense with the way he opened the game up for everyone. Especially Teague. Why he isn’t higher: Still can’t play defense. This past season was slightly better for Korver as he was in a far better system that hid some of his flaws, but still, his defense was still pretty bad. He also didn’t contribute in many ways outside of his shooting, which means that when that wasn’t on, he wasn’t doing anything. Korver is a phenomenal shooter. But even for him, last season, and not only was it probably his best shooting year ever, but the most he’s ever impacted a game. Edited July 20, 2015 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
56AceInDaPlace 110 Posted July 20, 2015 Due to injury I'm sure u left Kobe out right? I'm curious to see where u would rank him though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted July 20, 2015 Probably 5th or 6th. At least if we are assuming that he finished out the season the way he started. But yea, I leave the cut off to about give or take 50 games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
56AceInDaPlace 110 Posted July 20, 2015 Harden Butler and Thompson ahead of him if heathly if he could stay heathly. That's the problem. 5th seems fair Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BwareDWare94 723 Posted July 20, 2015 Please tell me Wes Matthews will be on this list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cherry 1,302 Posted July 20, 2015 My Butler love come true Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted July 20, 2015 Please tell me Wes Matthews will be on this list. Without disclosing where he's on my list, where do you think he belongs? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) 9. J.J. Redick 16 PPG/ 2.1 TRB/ .5 STLs/ 1.8 AST/ 1.2 TOs 16.2 PER/ 48% FG/ 44% 3P/ 58% eFG/ 62% TS Why hes in the top 10: Similar to Korver, Reddicks biggest contribution comes in the form of shooting the three. This was also his best year scoring offensively on all fronts, he averaged more points on better efficiency. Like Korver, Reddick plays a huge role in the Clippers offense as his scoring from the outside gives Jordan and Griffin as much space as they want, or could ever dream of needing to work not only in the paint, but even in the midrange area. He isnt asked to do more then take jumpers as CP3 is always the floor general, but he has shown the ability to occasionally pass the rock, and he cut down on his turnovers. Defense is another area where weve seen a huge improvement with Reddick. He will never be confused as being great by any means, but he is no longer a liability most of the time. Why hes not higher: Reddicks whole game, like Korver is still predicated on shooting the three. And the only reason I have him on this list is because of how much impact, and value that three had this season. Both, although have a track record of being great 3 point shooters, were exceptional this past year. Hes got some work to do as a playmaker, and he always will be at best an average defensive player. 8. Khris Middleton 13.4 PPG/ 4.4 TRB/ 1.5 STLs/ 2.3 AST/ 1.4 TOs 16 PER/ 47% FG/ 41% 3P/ 53% eFG/ 56% TS Why hes in the top 10: Defense is half the game, and on that side of the ball, there simply werent many 2 guards, if any better than Middleton this year. Id go as far as arguing that he had a legitimate shot for dpoy, even more then someone like Jordan. Statistically, Milwaukee went from having the best defense in the NBA with him in the game to one thats below average with him sitting. He had a defensive efficiency of 95 per 100 possessions while in the game. This is in large part due to his super long frame which allowed for him to guard positions from the 1 to the 4, and disrupt the flow of the opposing offenses in pick and roll situations. He is also developing as a three point shooter and seems well on his way to being a great 3 and D guy. He was flying under the radar to the rest of the world, but its pretty clear to the Bucks value what he had to offer, and they paid him well. Why hes not higher: Middletons potential right now seems to be a guy who can be a great/elite 3 and D guy. Hes only in his third year in the league and he has developed well, but he still has ways to go. His shot needs to continue to improve and he needs to start knocking down some of those mid-range jumpers. He also could stand to improve his ball handling and playmaking, as a 2 guard you have to be able to handle the ball upon your number being called and hes a work in progress there. 7. DeMar DeRozan 20.1 PPG/ 4.6 TRB/ 1.2 STLs/ 3.5 AST/ 2.3 TOs 17 PER/ 41% FG/ 28% 3P/ 43% eFG/ 51% TS Why hes in the top 10: Derozan is a great two way player who at any time is capable of going off for a lot of points. Hes got a variety of ways of scoring as hes developed a pretty good jumper, especially coming off the dribble. In the months of March, and April, Demar was carrying the team when Lowry wasnt on the floor. Especially when going left, he was extremely hard to guard as he averaged over 62% in the paint from that side. Defensively is where Demar makes most of his money. He has his lazy moments where he gets swept up by screeners, but for the most part, Demar is often to take on the best perimeter player on the opposing teams and he does a pretty good job. In general, the Raptors play better on defense when hes in the game because if hes not guarding those specific players, they are probably going to take off. Why hes not higher: Derozan in many ways reminds me of Josh Smith, and I mean that in the least complimentary way possible. He often takes the worst shot in basketball, and nobody knows why. Long 2s account for over 52% of his shot attempts, and he only made 35% of them, that is extremely unacceptable for a guy whos got his kinda athletic gifts. These awful shots are not only detrimental to his percentages, but to the team as a bad shot is the equivalence of a turnover, and a turnover leads to easy buckets the other way. The Raptors were in the bottom of the league in defensive FG%, thats directly a result of Derozans offense. So, long story short, his offense is whats holding me back from putting him any higher. And if it wasnt for his defense, and his occasional brilliant offensive performances I would switch his current spot, with Louis Williams It's funny because looking at last year, all of this was touched on as reasons holding him back, and he was ranked much higher. Edited July 20, 2015 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BwareDWare94 723 Posted July 20, 2015 Without disclosing where he's on my list, where do you think he belongs? 6 or 7, and thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for not having JJ Redick way too high. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ATL_Predator+ 1,196 Posted July 20, 2015 I can already tell I'm going to take Dmac out behind the woodshed with the way this list is going.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maverick 791 Posted July 20, 2015 1. DeMar DeRozan Should be a 7. Just pointing it out. >_> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025 Posted July 20, 2015 ruined his #1 SG already Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BwareDWare94 723 Posted July 20, 2015 Major props for the inclusion of Khris Middleton. He was quietly very good last season. He had a tendency to take bad shots but all players go through that phase. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted July 20, 2015 6 or 7, and thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for not having JJ Redick way too high. After I ranked Korver, I felt obliged to list him somewhere. Lo. I can already tell I'm going to take Dmac out behind the woodshed with the way this list is going.... Lol, it could of be 100 times worse then I made it. Haha. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted July 22, 2015 Alright, I'm back so I can finish this. Lol. 6. Tyreke Evans 17 PPG/ 5.3 TRB/ 1.3 STLs/ 6.6 AST/ 3.1 TOs 18 PER/ 45% FG/ 30% 3P/ 48% eFG/ 51% TS Why he’s in the top 10: Evans was arguably the most aggressive player in the league last season as nobody drove to the basket more than Evans did. It’s not new for Evans to take it hard inside, but this past season was his most successful, and he did so more often than ever before. He also generated the 3rd most amount of points of any player on drives to the basket with around 539 points in 2014-2015. What was more impressive was his three point shooting which also improved this past season despite taking more threes than ever before. Evans was probably also the best distributor of the 2 guards, he is so good that he was often asked to take the role of the 1 guard, and distribute the ball, he filled that role great coming out with the best AST/TO ratio of any player on this list, and finishing with the highest assist rate then anyone else on this list. This was done without a crazy increase in turnovers, which speak volumes of how much better he’s gotten there. Why he’s not higher: Evans didn’t get to the line as much as usual, and when he did get to the line, he actually shot worse than in the past seasons. He’s also still not all that much of a threat outside of the paint as he has no jumper, which ultimately kills the spacing. If Evans could get that FT rate back up to years past, there’s no reason why he can’t be a 20 point guy, but the issue with Evans is that every year it seems, he fixes one issue to have another complete different issue rise. His defense is also very unimpressive for a guy with Evans level of aggressiveness and overall talent. He’s very much a work in progress, but showed more promise than ever last season. 5. Dwyane Wade 21.0 PPG/ 3.5 TRB/ 1.2 STLs/ 4.8 AST/ 3.4 TOs 21.4 PER/ 47% FG/ 28% 3P/ 48% eFG/ 53% TS Why he’s in the top 10: At this point, Wade is arguably one of the greatest players of all time, when it comes to employing multiple tactics, tricks, and overall savviness to get to the paint and score on the inside despite getting older and older, and having really no outside game. Wade had the highest field goal in the NBA when driving to the basket, and shot well over 60 around the basket. He did all of this with major changes happening left and right from the start of the season to the end, and while battling health issues and having no other threat around him for a good majority of the season. And with the loss of LBJ, Wade had to go back to handling more of the ball handling/ and dishing out and he responded pretty well looking good as ever at finding the open guys around the basket and out on the perimeter. Wade also excels at handling the pick and roll on defense as he can always find ways to stick with his man before, and after them. Why he’s not higher: Overall inefficiency this past season compared to the three previous seasons took a massive dip, across the board. Regular, and effective field goal dropped by around 7 points, and his field goal percentage on 2s dropped by almost 7 points with his TS% dropping by 5 points. He also had TO average since 08-09 at around 3.4, and averaging around 11.9 turnover rate. More than likely, this can, and should be attributed to losing a lot of the talent around him, and even going through a lot of roster turnover as the season progressed. But this, plus an increase in how some other players performed this season dropped him for me. 4. Goran Dragic 16 PPG/ 3.5 TRB/ 1.0 AST/ 4.5 AST/ 2.2 TOs 17.4 PER/ 50% FG/ 35% 3P/ 56% eFG/ 58% TS Why he’s in the top 10: No shock to see Dragic fall (although it’s only 2 spots) on this list from his performance two years ago, this was pretty much predicted. But don’t let his seemingly worse numbers fool you, he actually shot better from everywhere on the court but the 3 point line where there was a drop off. Only Harden and Evans drove to the basket more per possessions then Dragic, and even Harden shot nowhere near as well as Dragic (67% around the basket!) did around the basket. Not only that, but when driving to the basket, only two players in the league shot better (LBJ, DWade) and in the case of Wade, did not attack as much as Dragic did. Most of his dropoff in stats can be attributed more to playing time than anything else as his minutes, shots, and usage all dipped. He was still a great distributor when asked to be a floor general as he had the second best AST/TO ratio among players on this list, and was second among starting SGs in assist rate. Dragic will never be confused for Tony Allen, but last year he was a pretty good defender as long as he wasn’t dealing with screens. Why he’s not higher: I think anywhere between 6th and 2nd is where Dragic will remain for the rest of his prime, which is totally fine. The biggest reasons for why he’s not higher can be attributed to his drop off with shooting the three, as that was/is the only real difference between last year and this year. His defense, compared to the guys higher wasn’t anywhere near as good either as he finished out with a negative plus/minus on defense, and both the Heat and PHX were better on that side with him on the bench. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted July 24, 2015 Well, the final group. 3. Klay Thompson 22 PPG/ 3.2 TRB/ 1.1 STLs/ 2.9 ASTs/ 1.9 TOs 21 PER/ 46% FG/ 44% 3P/ 56% eFG/ 59% TS Why he’s in the top 3: This was in many ways a breakout season for Thompson, and really the first one where it seemed like he was coming into his own. Thompson attempted more shots this year from virtually everywhere, and shot better from everywhere. Of all the shooting guards mentioned in this ranking, none outside Harden performed better on offense then Thompson, who averaged almost a 60% true shooting percentage. Despite playing on the same team as Curry, Thompson’s was near the top of the NBA in offensive RPM, and the Warriors averaged over 10 more points with him per 100 possessions then with him on the bench. The Warriors had a very different defense then in the years past, that involved more rotation and more switching, which made his job on defense a bit harder, and it showed. But regardless, when on a man, Thompson was still a great defender, and showed the ability to even shut down Harden at times better than anyone else. Why he’s not higher: Thompson doesn’t offer much as a playmaker, not that it matter much within the offense of the Warriors, but just like with last season, he’s not someone that can be relied upon to lead the offense in Curry can’t. Like Curry, on offense if his shot isn’t falling then he’s not adding much else to the offense, and on defense he was actually a negative player. This seems to be a rend with Thompson as it seems every year he’s a net negative player according to the stats despite all the work he does. He’s 25 years old and is already on the top of the SG list, the sky is the limit for Thompson if he keeps building on this crazy good season. 2. Jimmy Butler 20.0 PPG/ 5.8 TRB/ 1.8 STLs/ 3.3 AST/ 1/4 TOs 21.3 PER/ 46% FG/ 38% 3P/ 50% eFG/ 58% TS Why he’s in the top 3: Butler was arguably the best two way player in the NBA, and among 2 guards, he was by far the best two way player. Offensively he improved on many areas where he showed promise to the point where he became a legitimate first choice for the Bulls when Rose was both hurt and healthy. First, he had a ridiculous free throw rate of .51, which is only 5 points lower than Harden, same as Cousins, and he was 7th in the league in total free throws attempted. On top of his effectiveness at drawing fouls, Butler saw a huge rise in 3 point field goal due to a more consistent jumper. Three years ago when he was healthy he showed a lot of promise as a shooter, and two years ago that was buried under injuries, and this season he continued to improve in that area. The Bulls were a completely different team when Butler was in the game, and the craziest part about Butler’s improvements was how many different ways he was used this past season. I saw Butler be a floor general, he played the 1, 2, 3, 4 this past season and he was great in just about all situations. He was 4th in offensive rating, 6th in offensive win shares, and 6th in total win shares. All this while still playing lock down defense and being asked to carry the load on what was a top 10 defense. One of the biggest memories this past season from me personally is watching Butler put in work against Harden in January where he held him to just 3 free throws in 38 minutes, and shooting 32% from the field. Why he’s not higher: Butler, while made great strides this past season isn’t done growing, and if I was a Bulls fan, this would be a reason to be happy. His three point shot is still a bit inconsistent, mostly due to a jumper that imo could be even better if tightened. As a passer he’s also still got some improvements to make. The good news was that this past season he was able to increase his assists without increasing his TOs, but watching him play I never came away impressed with his abilities as a passer, and I think the team/system he played for had as big a role with his passing numbers as his actual ability. But these are all nitpicky things, at the end of the day, Butler is simply not better than the guy at #1 in my opinion. 1. James Harden 27 PPG/ 5.7 TRB/ 1.9 STLs/ 7.0 AST/ 4.0 TOs 27 PER/ 44% FG/ 38% 3P/ 51% eFG/ 61% TS Why he’s the best: There’s no question about who the best shooting guard is in the NBA as far as I’m concerned. Nothing to the other players on this list, but while I was one of the biggest supporters of Curry this past season, Harden, imo deserved the MVP award maybe even more then Curry. He is nowhere near the top among 2 guards on defense, but his offense is good enough to make up for every single issue he has on the other side of the ball. Only player this year to have better efficiency numbers then CP3 this past year was Harden, who had by far the highest value added of any player in the league, the highest estimated wins added, highest win shares, highest offensive win shares, and near the top on offensive rating. There’s really no need to go in depth any more on why Harden is the best shooting guard in the NBA. We already know what he does better than anyone else, and that’s draw contact. Even as a distributor, he was better than anyone else at his positon as he found guys in multiple ways. Where he could improve: Defense is the first thing that comes to mind, although it’s certainly forgivable considering how much load he has to carry on offense. And at no point this season did I truly think his defense was the difference between winning and losing. Harden also had a bit of a turnover issue that pocked it’s ugly head on occasions. The turnovers was a bigger issue then the defense imo as there were games where the turnovers down the stretch were at the most crucial points. Harden has a case for being the second best guard in the NBA. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cherry 1,302 Posted July 24, 2015 Butler finally there Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BwareDWare94 723 Posted July 24, 2015 I just can't fathom why Wes Matthews isn't on this list unless you're worried about his injury, which is justified. At the same time, if he returns to 100%, he's better than 6--12. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bangy 19 Posted July 24, 2015 Don't think you can really argue with this list. Harden is by far and away the best SG in the league and Butler and Thompson are top three. How many games did Matthews play? As I'm guessing the only reason he isn't here is because he played less than 50 games? If he was eligible imo Mathews would be 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted July 24, 2015 Butler finally there He deserved it, guy was a beast this year. And this is coming from someone who hates the Bulls. I just can't fathom why Wes Matthews isn't on this list unless you're worried about his injury, which is justified. At the same time, if he returns to 100%, he's better than 6--12. Matthews to me is a 3 and D guy who's defense was lacking this year. Every player I put in the ranking I'm reading and able to defend, Matthews... Not so much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites