TGP Primary Poll: Democrats

[RazorStar 4,025]

Really wish I could read that article instead of getting a headline that may or definitely may be misleading. >_>

[oochymp 2,393]

I Wonder how much of that cost will be covered by 1. military spending cuts and 2. billionaires/millionaires and multinational corporations actually paying their fair share of taxes. I Wonder how much of that will be off set by bringing back jobs from Latin America, China and South East Asia. Our GDP last year was 16.77 Trillion in one year. We're the worlds largest economy. Git 'er done.

that's entirely fair, and I'd also be really interested to see the numbers on that side of the ledger, but there's also the question of how much of our money do we actually want the government spending? weirdly I was able to read the article earlier today but now I'm getting hit by a paywall (sorry to others who can't actually read that) so I can't quote the specific numbers, but according to the article his plans would have the government spending a huge portion of the GDP, I think they said the only time government spending was a higher percentage of our GDP was during the buildup for WWII, so even if we can come up with the money, there's still the question of should we.

 

I did find some counter arguments: Bernie Sanders's $18 trillion in proposed spending is more affordable than it sounds - Vox

No, Bernie Sanders is not going to bankrupt America to the tune of $18 trillion - The Washington Post

 

the Washington Post article actually gives a decent summary:

But the bulk of what Sanders wants to do is in the first category: to have us pay through taxes for things we’re already paying for in other ways. Depending on your perspective on government, you may think that’s a bad idea. But we shouldn’t treat his proposals as though they’re going to cost us $18 trillion on top of what we’re already paying.

Edited September 15, 2015 by oochymp

[Sarge+ 3,436]

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/15/let_the_anti_bernie_sanders_red_baiting_begin_hillary_clintons_super_pac_wants_you_to_know_that_hes_a_socialist/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

 

Hilldog is SHOOK.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

He's a self proclaimed Socialist, so, I don't think he really cares too much.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

It's not about the label of socialist. It's trying to induce a scandal when there isn't one that wreaks of depseration.

[oochymp 2,393]

Price Tag of Bernie Sanders’s Proposals: $18 Trillion - WSJ

I feel somewhat compelled to post this rebuttal (written by the guy whose analysis WSJ relied on)

 

An Open Letter to the Wall Street Journal on Its Bernie Sanders Hit Piece | Gerald Friedman

[Sarge+ 3,436]

 

Thoughts?

[oochymp 2,393]

As to the issue of abortion, I think abortion far too often grouped in with contraception, which IMO is wrong. There's a huge difference between blocking conception and terminating a pregnancy and it should not be treated as such. I tend to see this far more often among pro-choice people trying to rationalize taking a life, and to me it seems to ignore reality. Conversely, I think it's wrong that so much of the pro-life movement is also in favor of limiting access to contraceptives, if you want to decrease the number of abortions the best way to do that is decrease the number of pregnancies, the best way to do that is to increase access to contraceptives, because nobody's going to get people to stop having sex.

 

The bottom line is when you're talking about abortion you're weighing the rights of two individuals and too many people on both sides trivialize the rights of one of those individuals.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

The bottom line is when you're talking about abortion you're weighing the rights of two individuals and too many people on both sides trivialize the rights of one of those individuals.

 

You're begging the question. Your argument is only true if both sides of the debate agree that it's two individuals involved, which would be incorrect.

[oochymp 2,393]

 

You're begging the question. Your argument is only true if both sides of the debate agree that it's two individuals involved, which would be incorrect.

that's my point, both sides act like there's only one individual whose interest matters

[seanbrock 1,684]

I hate how abortion is turned into a huge issue every election cycle. So let me get this straight, you want to defund planned parenthood, but you don't want to pay for the kids to be on welfare because their mom/parents can't afford the kid? This is what happens when you think you can force your morality on people and like oochy just said, the best way to limit abortions is the limit pregnancies. These people aren't living in the real world.

[blotsfan 2,112]

They don't care about the fetuses. They care about treating women like shit.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

Bernie is unequivocally correct about one thing he said, IMO, about the hypocrisy of conservatives. Conservatives are so anti-government involvement in things except when it relates to their religious views. They go on and on about how fetuses need protected, but when it comes to helping families once the child is born, well... sorry, you're on your own.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

I hate how abortion is turned into a huge issue every election cycle. So let me get this straight, you want to defund planned parenthood, but you don't want to pay for the kids to be on welfare because their mom/parents can't afford the kid? This is what happens when you think you can force your morality on people and like oochy just said, the best way to limit abortions is the limit pregnancies. These people aren't living in the real world.

 

Like blots said, it's about control and class. PP helps poor women, two things the GOP doesn't seem to like.

[blotsfan 2,112]

Same reason they support voter ID laws. It doesn't matter that study after study shows voter fraud doesn't happen. Those laws just make it harder for poor people to vote, and poor people tend to vote democrat.

[seanbrock 1,684]

Murrica, constitution, deomcracy and liberty. Four words that get thrown around a lot in an extremely ironic fashion.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Democracy is nothing but a splash word. It's pretty irrelevant. And it's not like many politicians tout the Constitution. f they do, there is a bigger chance of them lying than being honest about it (in a sense of upholding it).

[BwareDWare94 723]

Bernie is unequivocally correct about one thing he said, IMO, about the hypocrisy of conservatives. Conservatives are so anti-government involvement in things except when it relates to their religious views. They go on and on about how fetuses need protected, but when it comes to helping families once the child is born, well... sorry, you're on your own.

 

That's why the GOP has lost this country. They want to help those that don't need it and leave everybody else out to dry.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

That's why the GOP has lost this country. They want to help those that don't need it and leave everybody else out to dry.

Wouldn't be entirely sure on that. Ya, they are dividing... but I still don't like the chances of Democrats in a general election.

[Cherry 1,302]

I disagree. I think barring a Rubio (or maybe Carson) vs. Hillary, the dems are gonna win. The younger generations absolutely love Bernie.

[blotsfan 2,112]

Yeah Hillary is gonna be the next president.

[Cherry 1,302]

Yeah Hillary is gonna be the next president.

Introducing... Bernie Sanders.

[RazorStar 4,025]

Sanders isn't gonna get out of primaries, there is no hope for America.

[Cherry 1,302]

You're really underestimating him. He preaches eveeything the poor want.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

Short-sighted point, since people have been voting against their own economic self-interests since the beginning of time. Sanders is trying to reverse that trend, but he still has a lot of work to do, unfortunately.