Josh Norman is no longer a Panther

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

https://twitter.com/Panthers/status/722899831300042753

 

This may be the biggest head scratcher of this off-season

Edited April 20, 2016 by CrimsonRaider

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

This is an interesting move. My guess is that Norman is asking for 10 boat loads of cash and the Panthers weren't willing to deal. Instead of letting him sit on the tag and play beyond the tags value (probably), they want him to go out and prove he can get the money he is asking for. My guess is that this is a play to let Norman see that he he severely overestimated his own value with hopes to re-sign him long term to something more manageable after testing the waters.

Honestly, maybe a smart but very risky move for the Panthers. Although, perhaps the relationship is too strained and Norman won't return even if the Panthers end up offering more money. Not sure. Interesting either way.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Whaaaatttt?!!

 

No!

 

Why the fuck would we do this?

 

Even if we can't get a long-term deal going, we could use him next season. We get nothing out of this, right?

 

I don't get this one at all.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Thanatos

[butta54 371]

Knew Thana wouldn't take this well.

 

Heard about this on the radio while driving and alllll the Chicago talking heads yelling that the Bears need to sign him. But I'm reluctant to throw money at this guy.

 

Really Really think about this situation....this all but never happens in the league. There absolutely has to be some problem that went on behind the scenes. They could have easily traded him or something to get compensation. They just let him go....he has to be a bigger headache than we actually know.

 

Plus he is 28yrs old. People calling him in his prime....yeah not buying it. As soon as a player is 30 we start talking about "getting younger" and players being "long in the tooth"....that's two short seasons from now and that isn't long enough for me. I don't know him so I don't know if he is the type that can keep his athletic ability over all the years like a Charles Woodson. So I would pass on him if it were me.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Knew Thana wouldn't take this well.

 

Heard about this on the radio while driving and alllll the Chicago talking heads yelling that the Bears need to sign him. But I'm reluctant to throw money at this guy.

 

Really Really think about this situation....this all but never happens in the league. There absolutely has to be some problem that went on behind the scenes. They could have easily traded him or something to get compensation. They just let him go....he has to be a bigger headache than we actually know.

 

Plus he is 28yrs old. People calling him in his prime....yeah not buying it. As soon as a player is 30 we start talking about "getting younger" and players being "long in the tooth"....that's two short seasons from now and that isn't long enough for me. I don't know him so I don't know if he is the type that can keep his athletic ability over all the years like a Charles Woodson. So I would pass on him if it were me.

 

Can't trade him with him not signing the franchise tag.

[butta54 371]

If you had the trade in place then it would be as simple as him signing it.

 

 

I'm sure there is a team that would have been willing to work a contract out with him.

Edited April 21, 2016 by butta54

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

The Panthers allowed Norman and his camp to look for a trade. No team took the bait.

 

I think a team giving him a super front loaded contract would be happy with the decision for the next 4-5 years. Yes, his play will drop but structured correctly, it won't be a big deal, IMO. Even though I don't totally blame the Panthers, I think it is hilarious that they won't just tag Norman but they would keep Hardy around and throw tens of millions at him while he was out of the league.

[Cherry 1,302]

The Panthers allowed Norman and his camp to look for a trade. No team took the bait.

 

I think a team giving him a super front loaded contract would be happy with the decision for the next 4-5 years. Yes, his play will drop but structured correctly, it won't be a big deal, IMO. Even though I don't totally blame the Panthers, I think it is hilarious that they won't just tag Norman but they would keep Hardy around and throw tens of millions at him while he was out of the league.

Hardy had all intents for playing though. From what I'm hearing Norman was willing to pull a Kam and miss games in hopes of getting a new contract. Teams gotta nip that shit in the bud.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Let him miss games then... Unless you think your locker room isn't strong enough to deal with it. And if they can deal with Hardy, I don't see why they couldn't deal with Norman.

[butta54 371]

I'm fine with the Panthers letting him go. Stick to your guns. Just really think there is more to him as a problem than we know. You can talk about what Hardy was accused of doing with his girl....that's not the issue at hand....we are talking about a player that is a issue dealing with in the building.

Edited April 21, 2016 by butta54

[BwareDWare94 723]

This move signifies one thing to me, specifically:

The Panthers believe that they outscore people when necessary with Newton leading the offense. So rather than lock up an almost 30 cornerback to a deal far beyond what any single player is worth, they're moving on now as opposed to allowing him to be a distraction.

 

Nevertheless, I have to think that Cam Newton is very frustrated about this. It took the Panthers years to get him WRs, and his receivers still aren't top tier unless Benjamin returns to form immediately. They also nearly let him get killed behind porous tackles. He has to feel like they aren't helping him enough, and is probably starting to wonder how committed they are to winning a Super Bowl.

[FartWaffles 1,857]

It's a smart move by the Panthers. Free agency money has long been spent, and teams are 100% focused on the draft. The most money he is going to get is from the Panthers. Keep looking for that white whale Norman, you aren't going to find it.

 

He will re-sign with the Panthers.

[oochymp 2,393]

sounds like the Niners are the frontrunners with the Jags showing a lot of interest, both have over $50M in cap space

[Bangy 19]

It's a smart move by the Panthers. Free agency money has long been spent, and teams are 100% focused on the draft. The most money he is going to get is from the Panthers. Keep looking for that white whale Norman, you aren't going to find it.

 

He will re-sign with the Panthers.

 

I don't know. Haven't the 49ers got $52 mill in cap and could use a player like Norman on defence? I personally could see them as the front runners.

[Thanatos 2,847]

The Panthers allowed Norman and his camp to look for a trade. No team took the bait.

 

I think a team giving him a super front loaded contract would be happy with the decision for the next 4-5 years. Yes, his play will drop but structured correctly, it won't be a big deal, IMO. Even though I don't totally blame the Panthers, I think it is hilarious that they won't just tag Norman but they would keep Hardy around and throw tens of millions at him while he was out of the league.

 

Different situations. We weren't aware of the entirety of Hardy's situation prior to his signing the tag. Hardy signed almost immediately. It wasn't until August that the details really came out.

 

Norman never signed his tag.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

Different situations. We weren't aware of the entirety of Hardy's situation prior to his signing the tag. Hardy signed almost immediately. It wasn't until August that the details really came out.

 

Norman never signed his tag.

 

I know what you are saying, but didn't the team put Hardy on the exempt list after those details came out -- paying him $13million to disappear. Meanwhile, the team refuses to pay Norman about the same for a franchise tag to stay in town and actually play.

[oochymp 2,393]

Panthers GM Dave Gettleman discusses decision to rescind tag on Josh Norman

David Newton

ESPN Staff Writer

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Carolina Panthers general manager Dave Gettleman didn't hesitate when asked what he could do with the $13.952 million in salary-cap space he got after rescinding the franchise tag on cornerback Josh Norman.

"A lot," Gettleman said Thursday, the day after he made the Pro Bowl cornerback an unrestricted free agent.

Gettleman said the flexibility he got in removing Norman's cap number and the unlikelihood that a long-term deal would be reached with the 28-year-old ultimately led to the decision to move on from him.

Norman was seeking what he thought he could receive on the open market -- between $15 million and $16 million a year -- according to a league source.

By clearing his tag number, the Panthers now have approximately $31 million in salary-cap space. That provides the flexibility to sign Pro Bowl defensive tackle Kawann Short to a long-term deal, as Gettleman has said he wants to do.

"I've said it before," Gettleman said during what initially was a pre-draft news conference. "I struggle with our coaches working their fannies off, developing players and letting them walk. I don't like that. I've always believed that the cap can be a great equalizer. I really believe it penalizes teams that draft well.

"You have to understand you can't keep everybody. It's impossible. So now you have to decide who you're going to allow to graduate. We've got some really good, young talent. This was a business decision. That's what this is folks, a business decision."

Gettleman said the possibility of getting a compensatory draft pick in 2017 also factored into making the move now rather than letting Norman play under the tag.

Depending on what Norman gets financially in free agency, the Panthers could get as high as a third-round pick as compensation for the 2012 fifth-round pick.

Under the compensatory formula, a team is entitled to a compensatory pick if it loses more unrestricted free agents than it gains. When Norman signs with another team, the Panthers will have lost three UFAs and signed two.

FWIW the highest paid corner is Derrelle Revis at $14.025M per year with Patrick Peterson and Richard Sherman right behind him at $14.01M and $14M

Edited April 21, 2016 by oochymp

[SteVo+ 3,702]

Assuming this really is a business decision, Gettlemen must believe, philosophically, that building in the trenches will benefit his team more than investing in cornerbacks. Time will tell if he's right.

[Thanatos 2,847]

 

I know what you are saying, but didn't the team put Hardy on the exempt list after those details came out -- paying him $13million to disappear. Meanwhile, the team refuses to pay Norman about the same for a franchise tag to stay in town and actually play.

 

The money was already guaranteed in Hardy's case, he had already signed the tag. If we had cut him outright, we'd still have owed him the money.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

So why decide to pay him to stick around. if he is going get it anyway, don't let him be affiliated with your team anymore. In contrast, they won't pay to keep Norman who would at least get on the field. I guess you could argue that because he didn't sign that he may not have played, but my guess is he would have played. Sitting out a full year and coming back as an age 30 corner who hasn't played in over 12 months wouldn't get teams to pay what you want.

[BLUE 1,026]

Per Rotoworld.com:

 

CBS' Jason La Canfora reports the Redskins have made a "very legit" offer for free agent Josh Norman.

Per La Canfora, the 49ers' interest is also "very strong." The Redskins have the need, but also roughly $40 million less in cap space than the 49ers. If the Niners are serious, they will be hard to match. The move would be out of character for Washington GM Scot McCloughan, who has been very quiet through his first two Redskins free agencies. Apr 21 - 6:17 PM

Source: Jason La Canfora on Twitter

 

Bleacher Report's Jason Cole reports "at least" eight teams are interested in free agent Josh Norman, including the Rams.

We're not really buying the Rams' interest after they let Janoris Jenkins walk, as Norman will probably better Jenkins' five-year, $62.5 million deal. Cole also linked Norman to the Falcons earlier on Thursday, but GM Thomas Dimitroff quickly shot it down. What is clear is that Norman's market is as robust as you would expect for a lockdown corner in his prime. Apr 21 - 5:39 PM

Source: Bleacher Report

 

Free agent Josh Norman will visit the Redskins on Friday.

The Washington Post has since confirmed Jason La Canfora's report that the Redskins have made the free agent prize an offer. Getting Norman's first visit is a coup, but the Redskins appear to be competing with the 49ers, who have over $50 million in cap space. The Redskins are in the $11 million range, which is certainly enough to make something work over a long-term deal. Apr 21 - 6:41 PM

Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

Bleacher Report's Jason Cole reports the Dolphins are not expected to pursue free agent Josh Norman.

The Dolphins always try to be in the mix if there's a big name, but they don't have the resources to compete this time around. The Redskins and 49ers are shaping up as Norman's most serious suitors, with Cole reporting a decision could come as early as Saturday. Apr 21 - 7:01 PM

Source: Jason Cole on Twitter

 

ESPN's Adam Schefter reports free agent Josh Norman is discussing five-year deals with the Redskins and 49ers, and is expected to get $14-$15 million per season.

That money is what Norman has been looking for all along. It would put him well ahead of the annual $12.5 million Janoris Jenkins pulled down earlier this offseason. Norman appears set to become one of the 2-3 highest paid corners in the league. Apr 21 - 7:27 PM

Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Edited April 21, 2016 by BLUE

[Thanatos 2,847]

Norman reportedly wanted 16-17mil/year from Carolina. Now he's okay with 14-15? Lmao.

[Bangy 19]

A really good piece by Kevin Seifert on ESPN in my opinion.

 

There had to be more to the story, right?

The Carolina Panthers cut loose an All-Pro cornerback with no guarantee of compensation and no indication of chronic injury, rancor or regime change. It would be easy to slam Panthers general manager Dave Gettleman for arrogance and incompetence, or at the very least impatience, after his decision to rescindcornerback Josh Norman's franchise tag. But after a move this rare and unconventional, it made sense to wait for an explanation before pouncing.

Gettleman didn't provide many details during a 20-minute news conference Thursday. In the end, he said, "this was a business decision" -- a catch-all cliché we hear from front-office executives across every sport and league. But parting ways with Norman now, and in this way, makes more sense for the Panthers than the current narrative suggests.

So allow me to make Gettleman's case for him. We can do it without taking a single thing away from Norman, who is one of the best active players at his position in football.

1. The Panthers build from the inside-out

Whether you agree with him or not, Gettleman has prioritized the Panthers' offensive and defensive lines over wide receiver or secondary. They're committed to it and that's the first stop for their non-quarterback salary-cap space.

En route to the Super Bowl last season, the Panthers had about $50 million in cap space devoted to their defensive and offensive lines. Receivers and defensive backs accounted for $13 million in cap space, per ESPN Stats & Information figures.

"Big guys keep you competitive," Gettleman said Thursday, echoing the philosophy of one of his mentors, Tom Coughlin.

If that's the case, if you're operating with a plan that makes it is more important to keep players such as defensive linemen Kawann Short, Star Lotulelei andKony Ealy, you're going to have a more limited budget for Norman. On average, cornerbacks are the third-most expensive position in the NFL after quarterbacks and pass-rushing defensive ends. Something has to give.

"You can't keep everybody," Gettleman said. "It's impossible. So now you've got to decide who you are going to allow to graduate. We've got some really good young talent."

Given the nature of the Panthers' success in the past two seasons, especially defensively, it's difficult to argue with the approach they've taken.

2. Norman wanted elite money

By most accounts, Norman was seeking a long-term deal that paid him at least $15 million and perhaps $16 million -- a 14 percent raise over the highest end of the market.

Perhaps that would have been negotiable as the July 22 deadline for long-term deals approached, but if your organizational philosophy is to prioritize the interior lines, you're probably not going to pay elite money to someone -- at least, someone who isn't Cam Newton or Luke Kuechly -- who plays another position.

And to be fair, there are only three teams at the moment who have chosen to pay a cornerback even $14 million annually: The Arizona Cardinals (Patrick Peterson), the New York Jets (Darrelle Revis) and the Seattle Seahawks(Richard Sherman). It's not for everybody.

3. Age was a factor

Norman will turn 29 in December. Every player ages differently, but each team performs age analysis in these situations. There's a reason most big contracts go to those who are 26 or very close to it.

Even now, long before final roster decisions are being contemplated, there are only 10 cornerbacks on NFL rosters older than 31, according to ESPN Stats & Information. The Cincinnati Bengals' Adam Jones (32) was the only one among them to make the Pro Bowl last season.

This isn't to say Norman is nearing the end of his career or even past his prime. Again, every player is different. But giving him a long-term deal at the terms he was seeking means committing elite-level money into his early 30s, a period when most cornerbacks are in decline, moving to safety or already out of the league. The odds are against him.

Even Revis, who turned 30 last summer, seemed to have taken a step back in 2015. NFL teams pay for future production, not past accomplishments.

4. The compensatory pick deadline was approaching

Gettleman said the sides were too far apart to make a long-term deal possible. But it's fair to ask why he didn't wait until the last possible moment before making that determination, or why he didn't try to trade Norman first.

On the former, any free agent who signs after May 12 doesn't count in the compensatory pick formula. So Gettleman could have waited until July, hoping Norman would give in on his demands. But if the sides remained at an impasse, and the Panthers rescinded at that point, they would have missed out on a big boost to their chances for a high compensatory pick in return.

As for a trade, you might recall that in 2013, the Tampa Bay Buccaneersacquired Revis in exchange for the No. 13 overall pick in the draft. Revis turned 28 that summer. Why couldn't the Panthers get something similar for Norman?

The Revis deal, which ultimately led to Revis' departure after just one year, is a cautionary tale about the limited impact even an elite cornerback can have. The guess here is that Gettleman got a good-enough idea of Norman's trade value via informal discussions to know he wouldn't improve substantially over the seeming likelihood of a third-round compensatory pick.

There's a fair counterargument to be made here, namely that the Panthers should have simply kept Norman for one more year on the franchise tag given how close they were last season to winning a championship. You could argue that making a philosophical exception for an elite player is good management, not a lack of discipline.

Gettleman made clear Thursday that he "doesn't subscribe to the one-player-away theory" and doesn't view his team as having a short "window" into winning a championship.

What he really meant, of course, was that he doesn't view Norman's presence over that of another talented player as a substantial upgrade to his team's long-term championship hopes.

Gettleman knows he'll have an excellent defensive front and a coaching staff that has already proved it can develop young cornerbacks.

Time will tell on that judgment. But I think there was a method to Gettleman's madness, one backed by steady roster-building progress in his four years with the Panthers. We shall see, of course, but sometimes it's worth considering all facets of a decision before pouncing.

[Maverick 791]

I can't wait to see Dez vs Norman twice a year if he signs for Washington.

[Bangy 19]

Surely the bigger draw would be Beckham vs Norman twice a year