Trump Regime thread.

[seanbrock 1,684]

lol no shit they're only making a deal because it's in their best interests. Who gives a fuck why they're doing it as long as they actually follow through, which all indications are that they have.

Incidentally, the US didnt pay Iran our money. We lifted sanctions and unfroze money of theirs that we had.

I love your points about this and I'm with you 100%. Can you see how you've contradicted yourself with your stance on Trump's peace talks?

[blotsfan 2,112]

I love your points about this and I'm with you 100%. Can you see how you've contradicted yourself with your stance on Trump's peace talks?

No because we still only gave Iran those concessions because they gave us something we wanted. If they want money and we say "fine, we'll give that to you if you shut down your nuclear program" then both sides are getting it.

 

In this case trump effectively said "I want a photo-op and some good press" and North Korea said "we'll do this if you stop doing military exercises."

 

The US went into the Iran deal looking to get them to denuclearize and accomplished that. We went into this deal looking to get a picture of trump shaking hands with Kim Jong Un. Sure "we" got that, but is that at all worth it?

[seanbrock 1,684]

It's pretty unfair to expect Trump to get everything we want over one meeting and one weekend. I don't think the US gave up anything really but we've already been over how you disagree with that.

 

I think in order for us to get anywhere in peace talks someone has to take the first step and it's refreshing to me personally to see us do that for once. Besides, I don't think Trump would want to risk looking weak for a photo op. The man's ego wouldn't allow for it. Or at least I hope so idk.

[blotsfan 2,112]

It's pretty unfair to expect Trump to get everything we want over one meeting and one weekend. I don't think the US gave up anything really but we've already been over how you disagree with that.

Ceasing military exercises with South Korea is 100% a major concession. Granted you're right in that we might not actually be stopping them but that's just another indictment of trump that he said we'd do that without consulting anyone.

Edited June 14, 2018 by blotsfan

[seanbrock 1,684]

Ceasing military exercises with South Korea is 100% a major concession. Granted you're right in that we might not actually be stopping them but that's just another indictment of trump that he said we'd do that without consulting anyone.

Can you explain how? I don't follow.

 

I guess to clarify my question to you, my line of thinking is that it would only delay consequences if they decided to do something stupid. I think they're well aware of the fragility of their existence.

Edited June 14, 2018 by seanbrock

[blotsfan 2,112]

For no other reason than that's something North Korea really wants from us. If you know someone you're making a deal with really wants something from you, don't give it up without getting something from them.

 

It's especially ironic that mr dealmaker didn't get that.

Edited June 14, 2018 by blotsfan

[seanbrock 1,684]

Wouldn't you agree that despite the concession in good faith that we're still a position of power? Would you agree that we still have many cards left to play here? Furthermore would you agree that this is something we can easily reverse if things go sour?

Edited June 14, 2018 by seanbrock

[blotsfan 2,112]

You can't reverse that we told South Korea "we could completely bail on you without even giving you notice."

[seanbrock 1,684]

Is that what we've done? South Korea has been talking to North Korea too and their relationship is better right now than it has been since they were split. Also, it's not as if they're suddenly not under our protection. If North Korea were to move on South Korea it would mean their destruction.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Care to clarify that some? I'm not following that logic.

If they are only agreeing to a deal to free up cash to fund terrorism, there isnt a huge net win for us. Iran has been destabilizing that region since the beginning of time and were enabljng them to do that.

 

The idea of the Iran Deal I agree with, the execution though doesnt really solve anything.

 

So okay... they agree to limit nuclear activities. Great. Because they did that, we and the other countries gave them the freedom to fund their destabilization efforts. They are more powerful, imo, now than they were developing nuclear weapons.

 

Weve allowed them so much economic freedom that they pose more power and control in the region than they did before.

 

For what its worth... it shouldnt be much of our business, so if we take all our troops from the region and stay out of their efforts I guess its a win because we dont have to worry about them nuking us.

 

But from a perspective more to the left.... humanitarian wise , horrible for those people.

[seanbrock 1,684]

I honestly need to look more into what Iran is doing as far as funding terror but I some how doubt Iran wants to have all that instability in their own back yard. I think if there was no power vacuum in Iraq, this isn't an issue but again. I don't know as much as I should.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Iran is the leading sponsor of terrorism in the world... at least they were as of the end of 17. Maybe its changed. Ill post some links when I get home. I hate doing that stuff on the phone.

[seanbrock 1,684]

Iran is the leading sponsor of terrorism in the world... at least they were as of the end of 17. Maybe its changed. Ill post some links when I get home. I hate doing that stuff on the phone.

lol Iran is nowhere near the US in terms of sponsoring terror. Where did you read that?

 

Just based off simple logic I would have a real hard time accepting anything that said otherwise. We're talking about a country willing to spend trillions to secure oil interests and it's been our MO all around the world for a very long time.

Edited June 14, 2018 by seanbrock

[BwareDWare94 723]

Historic moment, especially if it can gain momentum... Maine voters have chosen to use rank-choice voting for their midterm elections.

 

State legislators wanted to delay the change until after midterms, but people weren't having ANY OF THAT. lmao. Republican governor is threatening to not certify the election results and allow the courts to settle it.

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/392045-maine-votes-to-keep-ranked-choice-voting-system

Maine also added a made up gender designation to their drivers licenses lol.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

It was a state department report. CNN, PBS, government site has the information as well.

 

Obviously the government isnt gonna come or and say we love terrorists. Ha

Edited June 14, 2018 by DalaiLama4Ever

[seanbrock 1,684]

Maine also added a made up gender designation to their drivers licenses lol.

what's your point? Totally irrelevant. Rank choice voting might be the only hope for democracy left in this country.

[seanbrock 1,684]

It was a state department report. CNN, PBS, government site has the information as well.

Obviously the government isnt gonna come or and say we love terrorists. Ha

I'm also very skeptical that Iran sponsors more terror than the Saudi's. Idk man lol

[blotsfan 2,112]

Maine also added a made up gender designation to their drivers licenses lol.

Where do you see that? All I can see is nonbinary options, which is most assuredly real.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I'm also very skeptical that Iran sponsors more terror than the Saudi's. Idk man lol

I think most of that counts as us lmao. But I wouldnt argue that. Even conceding that though being Top 3 isnt exactly an accomplishment to brag about lol

[seanbrock 1,684]

So what else about that report is a lie? Idk man?

 

https://www.state.gov/j/ct/list/c14151.htm

 

Kinda weird that there are only 4 countries on that list and all of them are countries we've bombed or want to bomb.

Edited June 14, 2018 by seanbrock

[blotsfan 2,112]

https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/100734777560287641

[BJORN 679]

Is that what we've done? South Korea has been talking to North Korea too and their relationship is better right now than it has been since they were split. Also, it's not as if they're suddenly not under our protection. If North Korea were to move on South Korea it would mean their destruction.

No, we are keeping our troops in SK but ceasing military exercises with them where we practice invading and overthrowing the North Korean government. My take is: things have to start somewhere and if progress halts or falters out we just restart our training. Plus, nothing is stopping South Korea from continuing that training, the majority of the participation was on their end. I think I read the training involved 300K South Korean troops and like 20K American troops. So I don't think we really gave up that much/betrayed SK by any stretch.

[blotsfan 2,112]

Even if its 100% the right thing to do (very much debatable) there is no reason we could not have told our ally that we were going to. Not sure why you guys even feel the need to defend such a move anyways, but I guess you guys are usually "well I dont like trump but hes right 100% of the time."

[seanbrock 1,684]

Eh, I think he's been a mixed bag but where he's been bad he's been pretty bad. Hate his tax plan. I still don't like the agression towards Iran and Syria. Don't like that he threatened Venezuela. I hate what he's done with the environment. I also really hate that he allowed Time Warner to merge with AT&T. There's plenty to criticize Trump on. I know I'm missing stuff here. Feel free to add

 

That being said, I think he's been far less aggressive towards Russia. He put a bullet and TPP and I was terrified he would basically bring it back by renegotiating it into our existing trade agteeements but he actually just protected US sovreignty in his NAFTA renegotiation. I also personally think he's doing a good job in North Korea

 

What pisses me off most is how the movement I believe we need, a progressive movement is under attack by the Democratic party even more than it is by Trump and the GOP, so I harp on that all the time because it's happening at the same time as Trump. To me, that enemy has to be beaten in the courts and at the primary level before we can even begin to fight the GOP and Trump. Otherwise it's not much of a battle except maybe who can raise more money from corporations and private donors. That's a losing situation in my eyes.

 

I guess to clarify how that's relavent is I end up defending Trump because he's being attacked for dumb shit. He gets attacked the wrong way on the wrong shit. We should be fighting the system and Trump, not using trade prop the system up the gave us Trump.

 

I don't look at politics like sports. I don't have a favorite team.

Edited June 15, 2018 by seanbrock

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Here we go again.