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Trump Regime thread.

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Hmm Ngata I think we agree on the suffering aspect. People can suffer tremendously but they can also experience plenty of incredible things in life. I agree that perspective is clouded by the life I've lived here in the US but I think it can be true for many. It's like, with life you can suffer and you can also persevere, without life neither of those options is possible. It is one of the things that has helped me with certain uncomfortable thoughts.

 

I can agree that it's not an issue to be taken lightly but that's something for the mother (and possibly the father) to concern herself with and not the government.

 

Edit: hopefully I get this in on time. The argument about suffering can apply to childhood trauma but it's such a mixed bag. You can have people like me with serious emotional neglect issues but let's take a step back. I don't want to take away from others experiences but I can do it with my own. What is emotional neglect compared to being raped by a caregiver for their early life? One can still recover but I agree with you that it's just such a heinous thing and there's no reason for a kid to grow up in that. Our social network is not capable of stopping this from happening. I'd agree I'd rather these people throw their romanticized concept of parenting out the window and accept they would be awful parents and just terminate the pregnancy.

Edited by OSUViking

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Absolutely. It actually kind of pains me to say that, because I think for a lot of people having kids is a life-changing experience. I cannot speak for everyone, however I know for me, I never wanted children either. And then I had my son, and it was an Indescribable moment. There really is only been two or three huge Paradigm shifts in my life, and that was Far and Away the biggest. And then when we got Macy, it just kind of reaffirmed what I already knew. That was my purpose in life. I think this ties in well with the suffering conversation we're having as well. I think when it comes to life, anyone can persevere, you just have to know your reason why. Which ironically enough also ties in with something else we talked about. The value of a human life. It's different for everyone, and it is just as arbitrary on how I view the value of my life versus the value of others. I know for me personally, the way I assess how valuable my life is, is how much better off I think my children will be in this world after I'm gone, as opposed to had they not had me in their life. The same goes for my wife, long after I'm dead if those three at the moment, maybe more, can say that I added a tremendous amount of value for their life, and I help them through this life with far more joy than without me, that my life was a resounding success. My ceiling in life, should be there floor. That is how I view it.

 

Now other people will do it differently in that's fine. I say all that to say, it is extremely hard for me to say we shouldn't have abortions, because I really do think kids can change your life, and they can give you an absolute and definitive purpose on why you were here. That being said to abused that gift by allowing an unwanted pregnancy comment and taking it out on the child as an untenable solution to me. So my stance on abortion, is best summed up by I would rather not have them be necessary at all, but since they will we should do it in the most responsible way

 

Not to mention even if they are legal they're still going to happen, and once we've already decided to get rid of the fetus, we should mitigate the damages much as possible. So if we can do it in a way where only one person dies, instead of 2 that would be an ideal outcome.

Edited by Omerta

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The vast majority of people who have children aren't ready to have children. There is no perfect time to have a kid. Children are often unexpected and those who accept the responsibility often thrive with children. Those who are self-centered and egotistical see children as a hindrance.

 

There is nothing more disgusting than a fully grown adult who is so selfish that they think a child would be a hindrance to their lives. And I don't mean hindrance as in "my life would change." Well no shit, Sherlock. I mean people who think their lives would be worse and that they'd be making some sort of sacrifice in order to have a kid. I'm sorry, but if a person would rather fill their life with material over raising and nurturing another living thing--if a person would find it more fulfilling to have the constantly available freedom to be materially gluttonous as opposed to constructing and molding another human being into a person able to competently handle life, that's fucked up to the highest extent.

 

Look, I get it to an extent. Different folks, different strokes. That being said, anyone whose perspective is developed and honest understands that constructing something over time is more satisfying than succumbing to material appetite.

 

People who regret having children or dislike their children are some of the foulest, most worthless people on this planet. They are narcissistic half wits with the perspectives of adolescents.

Edited by BwareDWare94

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I mean people who think their lives would be worse and that they'd be making some sort of sacrifice in order to have a kid.

Just as an aside in case you use this argument later, let's be clear about one thing. kids are a tremendous sacrifice, and in some ways the ultimate sacrifice. I can't speak for everyone, but I gave up everything that I was, every personal goal that I had, and every dream that was entirely my own, the moment I became a father. My entire life revolves around those children in my wife, my dream is to do the absolute best that I can buy them, so it is not entirely self-serving anymore. I don't get that luxury, it is 100% about them 100% of the time. Now, don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my life that way. Those kids have given me so much more that I could have ever had on my own, but make no mistake, it was a huge sacrifice.

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Just as an aside in case you use this argument later, let's be clear about one thing. kids are a tremendous sacrifice, and in some ways the ultimate sacrifice. I can't speak for everyone, but I gave up everything that I was, every personal goal that I had, and every dream that was entirely my own, the moment I became a father. My entire life revolves around those children in my wife, my dream is to do the absolute best that I can buy them, so it is not entirely self-serving anymore. I don't get that luxury, it is 100% about them 100% of the time. Now, don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my life that way. Those kids have given me so much more that I could have ever had on my own, but make no mistake, it was a huge sacrifice.

How about it's an initial sacrifice that over time becomes a good choice? Knowing the story with how your one child was taken on as the result of worthless addict parents, I already have a lot of respect for you on this topic.

 

This whole pro abortion and "kids aren't for everybody" agenda is, in my opinion, part of a larger movement among young folks shunning responsibility and avoiding the maturing process of becoming a real, actual adult.

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It's also a heavy financial burden to raise a child to term, especially in the states where health care isn't covered by taxes. Not to mention the financial that comes with actually raising a child if one decides to go that path. I think the thing is, if organizations like planned parenthood didn't exist, women would still need to find ways to get abortion due to health risk, financial risk, or otherwise, and doing the process illegally could have far worse consequences on women than simply letting them do so legally. I think the UN even considers restriction to abortion access a form of torture.

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How about it's an initial sacrifice that over time becomes a good choice? Knowing the story with how your one child was taken on as the result of worthless addict parents, I already have a lot of respect for you on this topic.

This whole pro abortion and "kids aren't for everybody" agenda is, in my opinion, part of a larger movement among young folks shunning responsibility and avoiding the maturing process of becoming a real, actual adult.

Yeah man, I absolutely agree with that statement. I do think wholeheartedly that it is a sacrifice, so I didn't know if you were saying that in a way to imply that it was not, or that it being a sacrifice was a bad thing. I may have misunderstood you, but yes I absolutely agree that it is definitely a sacrifice.

 

As to young kids being irresponsible and trying to shirk the responsibility of their actions, I guess I could buy that in certain circumstances. I think overall, that when you see those young teenage kids who have children, and they are taking out their decisions on the kid, you have to ask yourself a horrible question. Would it be better for that child to grow up in a household where it doesn't feel loved, and never gets any idea of self-worth. Or would it be better for it to have never been born? I can't really give a definitive answer, because I myself couldn't imagine being in that position. That said, that position exists, so abortions are going to happen anyway. The question becomes do you risk having the carrier of the child died to? I guess I could understand an argument for that as a deterrent, but I don't really think we should make death of deterrent for abortion.

 

really my only skin in this entire conversation was to say let's not dress up abortion come and put it in the same sense of getting your tires rotated, or going in for a checkup. You're killing something, so let's not act like this is a civilized thing to do. Not just because it isn't civilize does not mean that it isn't necessary. Those things aren't mutually exclusive in some cases. I would prefer to live in a world where does it happen, but since it will we might as well make it safe as possible.

 

Also something to consider, is the moment you start putting restrictions on it, saying you can have it in this instance, but not that one. You are giving a legislative body power to make decisions, and we lose sovereignty over our own minds and bodies. That would be an extremely dangerous precedent to set.

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Abortion is always the hardest issue for me.. I don't like abortions, but individual rights and liberties should trump all, IMO... So the woman should be able to do what she wants, but at the same time what rights does the other person have in this (the child). I know for a fact it isn't any of my business either way (doesn't mean I can't have an opinion, I'm just not going to force it on anyone).

 

I hate how the debate always falls to a "woman's right to choose". That sentence always stops at choose. If you are going to fight for the right to choose, you should finish that sentence and tell people what you are choosing to do.

With that said.. Theoretically, say abortions are totally banned. I think things would get bad. Out come the coat hangers, weird chemical "remedies", other dangerous ways to induce an abortion or miscarriage.

Traditionally in this country, if you ban something -- you just drive people to do it more and get that thing / service in more dangerous ways. Banning abortions won't get rid of abortions. That's not a solution.

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How about it's an initial sacrifice that over time becomes a good choice? Knowing the story with how your one child was taken on as the result of worthless addict parents, I already have a lot of respect for you on this topic.

 

This whole pro abortion and "kids aren't for everybody" agenda is, in my opinion, part of a larger movement among young folks shunning responsibility and avoiding the maturing process of becoming a real, actual adult.

I disagree with this. Not everyone can flip a switch like Ngata and it's oversimplifying it to say it's young people skirting personal growth. Don't forget the financial aspects that Razor mentioned.

 

I think the overwhelming majority of people who go into parenthood without a clue of what's expected of them will fail in many ways, overall their kids will still have some opportunities to recover but it's clear to see these generational cycles are difficult to escape. I can only speak from anecodtal experience and so I won't pretend this is universally true, but I see people of all ages walking around with a ticking time bomb of the emotions they're incapable of processing. A parent putting a child through that is going to have negative effects regardless.

 

The information is there for parents to understand what's expected of them. The ability to reflect on ones emotions and learn from them is possible without children, in fact that's a skill people should learn as they age and not as they're facing the choice of terminating or completing a pregnancy. People can mature and educate themselves about parenthood before having kids.

Edited by OSUViking

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Of course they can but the perfect walk up to parenthood is not completed by most people and never will be because people like to fuck more than they like the to think about the potential results of that. One of the main reasons I went from pro-life to pro-abortion was because I have friends who have had abortions and friendship is more important than ideology and I didn't know if I could remain pro-life and still treat them the same. Now I'm pro-life again with the understanding that while they may come to know about that stance, it's up to them how they react to it. If I don't mistreat them--or change the way that I treat them--then it's entirely on them if my being pro-life pushes them away.

 

The main reason I'm pro-life again ties in with the overall lack of personal accountability I see among our generations. From fucking repeatedly without any contraception in place (and then assuming it's morally okay to say "we don't want this child so we're going to terminate the pregnancy that resulted from our carelessness") to racking up tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt, abortion is just one cog in the machine of "it's somebody else's fault that I'm broke and reckless!"

 

As a society we are walking down a path of utter barbarism based on materialism and this is just part of it.

Edited by BwareDWare94

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Lol this debate is going to go absolutely nowhere. Have fun guys.

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Lol this debate is going to go absolutely nowhere. Have fun guys.

How's that? I mean to some extent or another we all agree it should not be banned.

 

I mean I guess in that way,nobody will change their mind so it will go nowhere.

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Bware, I totally get where you're coming from with the responsibility aspect of this... but don't you agree that it would be irresponsible to have a child if you think you won't be able to handle it?

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How's that? I mean to some extent or another we all agree it should not be banned.

 

I mean I guess in that way,nobody will change their mind so it will go nowhere.

What's wrong with the way it's done now? Safe, regulated, humane.
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I see what you're saying but it a hell if a lot more humane than what people will do to have abortions illegally as some have mentioned. Maybe if the morning after pill and condoms were made free.

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I could deal with that. And you're right about it being barely more Humane but more Humane none the less. That is really the only reason I am for them. They will happen anyway, might as well make it safe for the one who wants to have the abortion.

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Bware, I totally get where you're coming from with the responsibility aspect of this... but don't you agree that it would be irresponsible to have a child if you think you won't be able to handle it?

 

Two wrongs don't make a right. It's irresponsible to become unexpectedly pregnant in the first place because that about guarantees that contraception of some kind was not being used.

 

Secondly, why should "I don't know if I can handle this" end with "so kill it"?

Edited by BwareDWare94

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I see what you're saying but it a hell if a lot more humane than what people will do to have abortions illegally as some have mentioned. Maybe if the morning after pill and condoms were made free.

 

I understand that but these are rare circumstances. What's more humane? To understand that a tiny amount of people will seek out illegal abortions unsafely or to guarantee safely but also guarantee exponentially more abortions?

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Now that I am home and not working, I have had a little time to sit down and think about this subject a bit more. On the ride home I was thinking about the viewpoint of people realizing they would be horrible parents and that an abortion seems like a solid choice for them to go with. I have a few things on this. The first, it is impossible to know until you carry it and watch it born. I can not impress enough how life changing it is. You may think you would be horrible, but you could turn out to be great at it. I myself, are a terribly flawed man, and have been as far back as I can remember. When my son was born, I was an alcoholic(half gallon of bourbon a night, minimum), a womanizer in the not so distant past, incredibly angry and always looking to fight, and I cared about no one but myself, to the point I could not care less about anybody's life or death but my own. So if there was a person who was unfit for parenthood I was it. Meeting my wife and her deciding I was a good man, but she would not put up with a petulant teenager helped a lot, having my son and a family to look out for, was monumental. I say that to say, that you NEVER know how you will be as a parent until the moment comes when you are responsible for another human life.

 

The next point is that why are there not more parenting classes for infants? I think having your first kid is such a terrifying experience, that most people panic. I was in my early 20's and I was fucking terrified that I was going to be a father. Abortion was never an option for me, but I was certain my life was over. I had no fucking idea what to expect. The only thing I knew was I loved my wife and I would do what I have to in order to keep her, even if it meant putting up with a kid I thought was going to end my life. So we went to parenting classes, prenatal classes, birthing classes, and a lot of other ones, and I developed a few tips and tricks of my own to get myself ready. When the baby was born I was no longer terrified, I was still scared but more in the sense that I was not going to fuck it up, then it was about my life ending. Infants are a bunch of work, but it is also not all the crying and whining, and no sleep and no sex, and no parties, and no anything that I though it would be. Sure there was shitty diapers but really I spent maybe 30 minutes of my day changing diapers, and another 30 feeding it. The rest of the time I was just chilling with my little dude.

 

I think we need FREE classes on how to do it with volunteers who are parents, and child psychologists, and possibly even psychologists to help soon to be parents cope with the anxiety and provide some insight and some calming of the nerves that everything is not indeed over. I can see how being a 17 year old girl and being pregnant with a skeezy douchebags baby, who you know wont help would be terrifying. I could see why she would seriously consider and abortion. It has to be a lonely and hopeless feeling. Which brings me to my last and most important point.

 

A support structure. I think this might actually lead to more abortions that shitty decisions. People who have no support structures who are truly alone in this quest are likely to be the worst parents because they have no none to show them the way, they have no one to help when they are stressed, and they have no one to tell them it is going to be an awesome experience in the long run. I am finding out from my brother and my sister that I was a support structure. My brother has a boy who is close in age to my son, and my sister has a little girl. They would drop them off all the time, and I would just chill with my niece and nephew, but apparently I was providing a much needed break from their children, and my parents do the same thing for them. So if a person has someone who is older and kind of knows the ropes, and tells them,"Hey, I got your back, we will get through it together, and I will help as needed." I think you would see much less panic, and less abortions personally.

 

Now how you fix that I dont know. You can not legislate it, you cant force people to help, I dont know what you do personally. Quit being fucking shitty to people with kids and let the kids chill with you so the parents can relax I guess.

 

 

EDIT: And absolutely FUCKING CRUSH absent parents. I am talking throw their asses in jail, release them on work release to a halfway house, and make them get a job and garnish the fuck outta them until they pay for their kid. I mean make them so fucking miserable they would rather be dead than there, and then give them the option to not be an absolute piece of shit parent. More than politics, more than liberals, more than money, more than uncouth people, and more than stepping on legos I fucking hate absent parents. Like to the point I wish they were dead, but that only exacerbates the problem. If you have a kid do your part god damn it. how people abandon kids is the most disgusting and sick thing a human being can do, that isnt criminal.

Edited by Omerta
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I highly doubt Ron Paul is running his own twitter... lol. Shit came form 4chan anyway, I highly doubt Ron Paul goes to or knows what 4chan is. lol.

People should be smarter.

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I mean, Ron paul has a history of..."racial incidents" to put it lightly.

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Trump picks, probably the "swampiest" judge to succeed Anthony Kennedy. Not shocking.Also, while watching some coverage before the announcement. I was flipping back and forth between stations and don't remember who it was, but someone suggested that Clarence Thomas might retire so that Trump can fill his seat with a younger conservative. That's the first I heard about Thomas thinking about retiring...

If that happens, wow. And I don't wish ill on anyone, but if RBG kicks the bucket..... That SC is gonna be iron tight unless there is some unforeseen movement to more centrist policies from a nomination made by Trump (which has happened quite a few times under Republican presidents).

 

EDIT:

This nomination also let's Trump throw another uber conservative into the DC district judge seat, which is a very powerful position -- 4 of the 9 SCTOUS are held by judges coming from the DC district court.

Kind of obvious but definitely the biggest "power play" possible.

Edited by DalaiLama4Ever

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Elections matter

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