Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted April 23, 2017 I am not going to say much because Sarge is knowledgeable enough on my POVs, at least on this topic, to argue for me. But yeah, I am probably the biggest (or at least most vocal) person on the War on Drugs here, I think. VERY VERY against. It's worthless. And I don't know about a "joke", but yes, I was being a sarcastic / facetious individual earlier with my original comment. Jokingly saying that $40B total for a wall is a deal compared to spending roughly $40B ANNUALLY on the war on drugs. For what it's worth...I am also against putting up the wall on the taxpayer dime. I don't really care if its there if Mexico is paying for it. That doesn't mean I think it will work -- just that I am pretty indifferent if we, the people, aren't forking over the cash. Theoretically, if we aren't paying for it but still get to hire people to build and then secure the wall, I think that'd be a win -- to a degree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos 2,847 Posted April 23, 2017 Except ofc for the people who are forced to sell their land to the government at whatever price the government deems reasonable, in order for us to build said wall. (Ironically enough, a lot of said people were Trump voters). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted April 24, 2017 This is the problem with labels and partisainship. It creates a strange kind rivalry instead of a platform for debate or discussion. It's the culture of politics in American. It comes with a lot of vitriol. We've all fallen into that trap. I try not to be arrogant dick when debating politics but sometimes it's hard ha. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted April 24, 2017 This is the problem with labels and partisainship. It creates a strange kind rivalry instead of a platform for debate or discussion. It's the culture of politics in American. It comes with a lot of vitriol. We've all fallen into that trap. I try not to be arrogant dick when debating politics but sometimes it's hard ha. Dick... hard... hehe You are right though. This is the purpose of the two party system. Republican VS Democrat Conservative VS Liberal Your View VS My View You VS Me 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted April 24, 2017 Divide and conquer? lol Read up on James Madison y'all. Not what people said about Madison but what Madison himself says in the federalist papers. A lot of the founding fathers that we're all raised to worship as borderline deities. They kind of had a contempt for most regular people. He was probably the principal creator of the constitution. Obviously there were other contributors but Madison is probably one of the 5 most important figures in American history, he was a fucking president and still not many people know who he is or what he was all about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted April 27, 2017 In a year of pain and suffering, we have been given a brief reprieve. Yes, trump has done some horrible things today and someone else can post them and discuss them. I just want to enjoy this beautiful tweet. https://twitter.com/IvankaTrump/status/715648874346520576 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sarge+ 3,436 Posted April 27, 2017 Worth posting since Trump thinks Trickle Down Economics works. It doesn't. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted April 27, 2017 To be fair, Trickle down Economics works for him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted April 27, 2017 (edited) Yeah trumps only goal with tax reform is to shift more of the burden from the rich to the middle class. If anyone is surprised by this please let me know. I have a bridge to sell you. Also fun fact: the 1950s, aka the era every republican wants to bring us back to, had a 90% tax rate on the top income bracket. Edited May 6, 2017 by Zack_of_Steel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted April 27, 2017 Yeah trumps only goal with tax reform is to shift more of the burden from the rich to the middle class. If anyone is surprised by this please let me know. I have a bridge to sell you. Have you read the skeleton of the plan? Businesses will definitely win but it looks like right now, that most people are going to win. Only three tax brackets means a lot of people are going to be shuffled downwards to a lower rate. I myself am looking at 10% decrease if the plan holds up as it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted April 27, 2017 (edited) http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/26/obama-to-be-paid-400000-for-cantor-fitzgerald-speech.html So Obama is going on the paid speech tour funded by his buddies on Wallstreet. This is our 'democracy.' This is the so called leader of the party of workers. What a joke, unfortunately the joke is on all of us. The guy took us from being at war with 2 countries to 7. He bailed out the banks as the foreclosed on people's homes. He gave us a health care bill that is just a massive transfer of wealth to insurance and pharma and didn't fight AT ALL for the public option. This is the guy who helped fuck Bernie Sanders over in the primary. Can anyone seriously say that anything would be significantly different with Hillary in office? Would her cabinet have 1 less billionaire? What does the DNC leadership offer in opposition to Trump? More of the same. More Clinton and more Obama conservative policies. BUT HEY, THEY FOR ABORTION RIGHTS AND GAY MARRIAGE RIGHT?....RIGHT????? Choice in American politics doesn't exist and democracy for all intents and purposes is fucking DEAD. Edited April 27, 2017 by seanbrock 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omerta+ 1,206 Posted April 27, 2017 That is what it cost me the first two hours after my car accident that broke my neck. They did nothing but get an IV in me, check out the cut on my arm, and cut my clothes off. They then called an ambulance where I first got my pain meds. My wife says it was less than 2 hours from when I was admitted to when I caught an ambulance out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted April 27, 2017 (edited) http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/26/obama-to-be-paid-400000-for-cantor-fitzgerald-speech.html So Obama is going on the paid speech tour funded by his buddies on Wallstreet. This is our 'democracy.' This is the so called leader of the party of workers. What a joke, unfortunately the joke is on all of us. The guy took us from being at war with 2 countries to 7. He bailed out the banks as the foreclosed on people's homes. He gave us a health care bill that is just a massive transfer of wealth to insurance and pharma and didn't fight AT ALL for the public option. This is the guy who helped fuck Bernie Sanders over in the primary. Can anyone seriously say that anything would be significantly different with Hillary in office? Would her cabinet have 1 less billionaire? What does the DNC leadership offer in opposition to Trump? More of the same. More Clinton and more Obama conservative policies. BUT HEY, THEY FOR ABORTION RIGHTS AND GAY MARRIAGE RIGHT?....RIGHT????? Choice in American politics doesn't exist and democracy for all intents and purposes is fucking DEAD. Do you think the dems would try to get this new healthcare law passed? Do you think the dems would call for these massive tax cuts for the wealthy? Do you think the dems would try to allow the national parks to be sold to oil companies? Do you think the dems would try to roll back net neutrality? Do you think the dems would try to cut all funding to planned parenthood? And Sean, I don't know why you consider abortion rights and gay marriage to be trivial issues. They might not effect you, but they have massive consequences for other people. Edit: Also, Ngata I'm sorry that happened to you, but I've read that if you don't have insurance, you can often barter down hospital bills a lot. They have those jacked up prices because the insurance companies will pay them, not because thats what the hospital needs to perform those services. Its a fucked up system, but hopefully that helps you. Edited April 27, 2017 by blotsfan 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omerta+ 1,206 Posted April 27, 2017 Edit: Also, Ngata I'm sorry that happened to you, but I've read that if you don't have insurance, you can often barter down hospital bills a lot. They have those jacked up prices because the insurance companies will pay them, not because thats what the hospital needs to perform those services. Its a fucked up system, but hopefully that helps you. Much appreciated. I am not concerned I am in an IBEW union and our insurance covers at 100% at $1300 a month to my employer so I will see pay exactly $0 for this. It is more of an illustration for what can happen to people who go to the ER and have no insurance. I am sure you can barter them down but my neck surgery will cost me/my insurance $750,000 I wonder how far someone would get bartered down on that. Still enough to crush them I am sure. That is why this single payer system needs to be done and done well or have insurance like I have that the employer pays for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted April 27, 2017 (edited) Do you think the dems would try to get this new healthcare law passed? Do you think the dems would call for these massive tax cuts for the wealthy? Do you think the dems would try to allow the national parks to be sold to oil companies? Do you think the dems would try to roll back net neutrality? Do you think the dems would try to cut all funding to planned parenthood? And Sean, I don't know why you consider abortion rights and gay marriage to be trivial issues. They might not effect you, but they have massive consequences for other people. Edit: Also, Ngata I'm sorry that happened to you, but I've read that if you don't have insurance, you can often barter down hospital bills a lot. They have those jacked up prices because the insurance companies will pay them, not because thats what the hospital needs to perform those services. Its a fucked up system, but hopefully that helps you. Yes I do, honestly. Obama made Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy permanent. He did NOTHING about Flint and ND pipeline. I guess the only one of those things that they wouldn't have done would be cut funding for planned parenthood. I wouldn't say they're trivial issues, but they're far from the most important issues and your stance on those issues does not in and of itself make you a liberal which is the way it's made out to be. As for Ngata, that's exactly the reason why single payer isn't the whole solution. The cost of health care must be regulated. That's insane man. Edited April 27, 2017 by seanbrock Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted April 27, 2017 As for Ngata, that's exactly the reason why single payer isn't the whole solution. The cost of health care must be regulated. That's insane man. Well a lot of those costs are also to cover the people who show up to the ER and can't pay anything. The hospital takes a loss on those. If single payer existed that wouldn't be an issue. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted April 27, 2017 Well a lot of those costs are also to cover the people who show up to the ER and can't pay anything. The hospital takes a loss on those. If single payer existed that wouldn't be an issue. Yeah I can see that, but the drugs really are the big one. Crazy how much we have to pay and the patents are pretty crazy too. I don't really know all the ins and outs because I'm not in that profession but I will say that we pay far too much for health care. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted April 27, 2017 Yeah I can see that, but the drugs really are the big one. Crazy how much we have to pay and the patents are pretty crazy too. I don't really know all the ins and outs because I'm not in that profession but I will say that we pay far too much for health care. You can thank W for that. He pushed a law through that banned the federal government from negotiations with drug companies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted April 28, 2017 You can thank W for that. He pushed a law through that banned the federal government from negotiations with drug companies. Yeah but the real problem is democratic leadership did nothing to try and repeal or replace it and when Sanders and Republican senators tried to fix it just recently their was bipartisan resistance to it. You expect republicans to do shit like this but the opposition to these policies is so fucking weak. We have so few people in congress trying to fight this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted May 4, 2017 Vote on Trumpcare is happening tomorrow which means the GOP expects it to pass. This will effectively eliminate all provisions protecting people with preexisting conditions. It probably won't end up passing the senate, but this is certainly not good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted May 4, 2017 Ooh this is fun. If you had an organ transplant while covered under Obamacare, you might lose your insurance now and not be able to take the drugs needed to your body doesn't reject the transplant. If this happens, you will die. https://twitter.com/brianbeutler/status/860139424490950656 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted May 4, 2017 Vote on Trumpcare is happening tomorrow which means the GOP expects it to pass. This will effectively eliminate all provisions protecting people with preexisting conditions. It probably won't end up passing the senate, but this is certainly not good. If it's not passing the Senate it doesn't mean a whole lot. Just that Paul Ryan is a toad and making deals Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted May 4, 2017 If it's not passing the Senate it doesn't mean a whole lot. Just that Paul Ryan is a toad and making deals But I'm not taking anything for granted with the vote. Plus the senate can make some changes. I assume the dems would filibuster but the republicans might remove that too. Of course I could see some republican senators opposing this bill because it's so obviously terrible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) Yeah and that's fair, you never truly know what's going to happen. In its current state, id be pretty surprised if this is anything but dead on arrival in the senate. Too many moderate Republicans that are emphatically against it. And honestly I'm a little surprised Trump likes it -- if he likes it. I'm not shocked he isn't going by his word, but he did spook a lot of Republicans during his campaign when he said his aim is to get healthcare for everybody. This is obviously a very far cry from that. I don't know if I am just giving him a pass because he's so inexperienced / ignorant / etc , but this whole project seems like a Paul Ryan project. I know Trump endorsed the last one and tried getting people to support it -- but it just has so much Ryan influence in it. Gross. Edited May 4, 2017 by Banned4Ever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites