Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted January 29, 2017 OOhh, okay. I agree with you, there is a difference. So as long as Trump allows everyone with a visa or green card to come in, it's fine.. We can still ban all the Muslims? The only ones he can ban are the ones who haven't already been accepted. That makes sense. The clarity really does help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) OOhh, okay. I agree with you, there is a difference. So as long as Trump allows everyone with a visa or green card to come in, it's fine.. We can still ban all the Muslims? The only ones he can ban are the ones who haven't already been accepted. That makes sense. The clarity really does help. You can't do it based on religion, but yes he could cease new refugee applications from those nations and it'd be legal. I'm sure that'll be his next step. I would like to point out that when Obama did it, it was in response to an attempted terrorist attack by people who (falsely) claimed to be Iraqi refugees. As opposed to this when it was in response to nothing, Trump has decided to simply ignore the courts. https://twitter.com/aayoub/status/825696133003538433 Edited February 3, 2017 by Zack_of_Steel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos 2,847 Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) If the US says "Christians = Good. Muslims = Bad." it means we as a country have decided that we are treating people differently based on religion. I don't see any part of that that says "this only applies to citizens. You can establish a state religion that counts for foreigners." The US constitution applies to US citizens. That's how it works. There was never a stay issued on the whole thing. Don't make me start taking Favre's side here, blots, I don't want to. The judge only ordered that people already with visas and in the US or on their way when the order was signed can't be deported. Trump isn't defying it, he's saying that he will continue the ban, just not on those people- who were never really the target in the first place. Priebus has already said those with green cards have not been deported and they are not the target of this order. Yes, this is fearmongering and scare tactics. Yes its a response to nothing. No, it would not have stopped the San Bernandino attacks, contrary to the lies the GOP has put out recently. But don't just make up shit to attack it with. Stick with things that are actually true about it. Edited February 3, 2017 by Zack_of_Steel 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted January 29, 2017 The US constitution applies to US citizens. That's how it works. Incorrect There was never a stay issued on the whole thing. Don't make me start taking Favre's side here, blots, I don't want to. The judge only ordered that people already with visas and in the US or on their way when the order was signed can't be deported. Trump isn't defying it, he's saying that he will continue the ban, just not on those people- who were never really the target in the first place. Priebus has already said those with green cards have not been deported and they are not the target of this order. Yes, this is fearmongering and scare tactics. Yes its a response to nothing. No, it would not have stopped the San Bernandino attacks, contrary to the lies the GOP has put out recently. But don't just make up shit to attack it with. Stick with things that are actually true about it. They are 100% ignoring the courts. https://twitter.com/DamonSilvers/status/825747937066115072 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted January 29, 2017 "(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by PresidentWhenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. "And for the record, even people with visas or green cards can and are considered aliens. If you aren't a citizen of this country, you are an alien -- legal or illegal. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182 As I mentioned before, I still don't like that people previously accepted were detained -- so I am not changing my stance. But per the law... it was completely legal for Trump to do what he did. I think it's almost hilarious (in a sad, pathetic kind of way) that it's only a big deal because Trump did it. If a judge overturns this or strikes it completely, it would be YUGE. Not just because it "defeats Trump" as I am sure all of social media and news stations will tell you, but because it overturns decades of American policy precedent. I don't know what or how the new / revised / stricken law would read so it's too early to say right now but at the very least it could lessen federal / executive power -- which I can't say I am against. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheLand 6 Posted January 29, 2017 If you can't help yourself, you can't help others. We have too many people in this country that need help who don't get it because we wanna help refugees and illegals. It's sad we have homeless vets who starve but someone who entered illegally is treated like a saint. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cherry 1,302 Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/refugee-muslim-executive-order-trump.html Edited January 29, 2017 by RazorStar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted January 29, 2017 In Section 5 Part B (b) Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual’s country of nationality. Where necessary and appropriate, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall recommend legislation to the President that would assist with such prioritization. When you say that you're banning people from a Muslim country unless the person is from a minority religion, it doesn't take much to put two and two together. Yes you could make a case of technicalities in that it doesn't explicitly say "Muslim" but you know damn well that wasn't the intent. Of course, it might be scarier that the executive branch is just straight-up ignoring the judge's rulings. Even if Favre is right and its 100% legal, that doesn't change that the Federal courts ruled that while the suit is pending, the people need to be let in. This is a horrific abuse of power and shame on every congressman that hasn't called him out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos 2,847 Posted January 29, 2017 I think Favre is correct, for the record, this is legal and constitutional. Doesn't mean its not a complete shitbag move designed to further use scare tactics to keep the whites voting for Trump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) If a judge rule sit unlawful and Congress changes it -- Trump should get some credit for it in a way. Because this law has been running rampant for decades, it took Trump to bring enough attention to it for people to actually give a shit. It's obviously not his intent behind it, but call it a positive consequence. Edited January 30, 2017 by Favre4Ever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted January 30, 2017 At least I understood how the Muslim ban was planned on being implemented... https://twitter.com/cnbc/status/826081756524716032 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted January 30, 2017 We're gonna regulate drugs! Ok cool but first we have to deregulate guns and prisons so we can throw all the malcontents in there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cherry 1,302 Posted January 30, 2017 Y'all so salty. We out here cutting regulations bitch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted January 30, 2017 We're gonna regulate drugs! Ok cool but first we have to deregulate guns and prisons so we can throw all the malcontents in there. We've been over-regulating drugs for decades and have only made things worse. If Trump doubles down on the War on Drugs -- that would be truly disappointing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted January 30, 2017 Y'all so salty. We out here cutting regulations bitch. Do you actually think thats a good way to implement things? Like, really? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos 2,847 Posted January 30, 2017 That is a completely arbitrary way to do things lol. Seems like what a five year old would do. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) Donald Trump is literally planning a fascist takeover of the US government.* This was written before he fired the attorney General for not doing as he said, despite that A) Not being the attorney General's job B) Him not having the authority to do so. *Ok I can't say I know 100% that he is, but his actions sure look like someone who is. Edited January 31, 2017 by blotsfan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oochymp 2,393 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) obviously an oversimplification (like all memes) but it raises a great point regarding what I see as the biggest threat Trump has been posing which is to the checks and balances of the three branches of government Edited January 31, 2017 by oochymp 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Piggly Wiggly 960 Posted January 31, 2017 Trump's got you guys all fucked up... he's got everyone l fucked up. Not me. Not this guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted January 31, 2017 Phil, that's because you literally could not care less about anyone that isn't you. You like the selfish asshole because he's exactly what you'd be if you were successful. And Oochy I know what you're getting at, but I don't recall a single instance of a power grab on the level of what has been going on the past week. Straight up instructing the DHS to ignore the courts is insane. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cherry 1,302 Posted January 31, 2017 Do you actually think thats a good way to implement things? Like, really? If it's effective in cutting regulations, yes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted January 31, 2017 It might be a meme, but the executive branch has done nothing but grown in size. Trump may go down as one of the greatest presidents ever without even trying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted January 31, 2017 I'm just biased. This isn't fascist at all. https://twitter.com/charesilver/status/826447357105491968 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oochymp 2,393 Posted February 1, 2017 And Oochy I know what you're getting at, but I don't recall a single instance of a power grab on the level of what has been going on the past week. Straight up instructing the DHS to ignore the courts is insane. which is why I said it was an oversimplification, Trump likely would have been able to do most, if not all, of what he's done so far without the stretches Bush and Obama made in the powers of the executive branch, but it would have been more difficult 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
