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blotsfan

Trump Regime thread.

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I guess I want to prevent millions of people from dying due to treatable conditions just because they don't have enough money. :shrug:

 

Their own healthcare is their responsibility once they are an adult. It's a good/service, and if they aren't able to afford it, that's their problem. An individual shouldn't have to sacrifice 10% of their income to help pay for others healthcare costs.

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Oh right, I keep forgetting you're a selfish asshole. My B.

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Oh right, I keep forgetting you're a selfish asshole. My B.

 

Oh right, I keep forgetting you don't understand that taking 1/10th of someone's income is fucking theft.

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And letting someone die when you can save them is tantamount to murder.

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Hey bloots, you ever realized how much of an insufferable millennial liberal cunt you are?

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And letting someone die when you can save them is tantamount to murder.

 

Someone is in a coma, and has a slim chance of ever coming out of it. Should the government be obligated to pay the costs to keep them alive, however high? If you let them die, it is tantamount to murder, yes? Where do you draw the line on when the costs of healthcare to keep an individual healthy is too much? Would you be willing to bankrupt the country to try and care for everyone in it?

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I think we could avoid bankruptcy the same way other countries do it. Collective bargaining is a hell of a thing.

 

(and its not literally murder. that was a point of how absurd calling taxation theft is)

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How about this, you propose your perfect health care system and I'll propose mine. Then we can discuss?

 

I mean write out an actual plan to debate. :yep:

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I also think that the notion that completion eliminates inefficiency and/or wasteful spending in the private sector is an extremely flawed and extremely naive one.

 

http://fatasmihov.blogspot.com/2013/09/does-competition-get-rid-of-waste-in.html

 

I can back this up by the experiences I've had in working for both small businesses and large companies. I also think paying a CEO 100 million dollars is pretty fucking wasteful.

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You're spending about $2000 dollar a day for every day you spend in hospital in the US. The average cost of health care here in Canada is about $4000 per person per year. (using the total $141 billion spent divided by number of Canadians) So I suppose you're banking on if you never end up in the hospital, get sick or get injured, you as the individual are paying less money. But if anything happens to you, and you need to stay in hospital for a prolonged amount of time, you're stuck paying way more than we do. Factor in ambulance costs (which I hear are absurdly high), and the extortion your own medical companies have on life saving treatments, it's really no wonder why every first world country thinks the american health care system is a joke.

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If that's what people want, why not let them opt of it. It should be their choice, This government heavy approach is what is the problem in the first place.

 

In 2013, a typical Canadian family of four can expect to pay $11,320 for public health care insurance. For the average family of two parents with one child that bill will be $10,989, and for the average family of two adults (without children) the bill comes to $11,381. As a result of lower average incomes and differences in taxation, the bills are smaller for the average unattached individual ($3,780), for the average one-parent-one-child family ($3,905), and the average one-parent two-child family ($3,387). But no matter the family type, the bill is not small, much less free.

 

 

The highest minimum wage anywhere in Canada is $15 from what I found. So if you have a married couple with two kids making the highest minimum wage, you're look at 57k a year.. That comes out to be 20% of pre tax income that is being taken out for health insurance.

 

Now you can poke holes in that argument for sure, one parent or both could easily make above minimum wage.. but then you have a lot of of other provinces (every other one) that doesn't even hit $15/hr.

 

A typical Canadian family of four will pay $11,735 for public health care insurance in 2015. The study also tracks the cost of health care insurance over time: Between 2005 and 2015, the cost of health care for the average Canadian family (all family types) increased by 48.5 per cent, dwarfing increases in income (30.8 per cent), shelter (35.9 per cent) and food (18.2 per cent).

 

 

In two years, the average price rose by $420 per year.. I mean it looks to be just going up and up...

 

And does this Universal Health Care also cover dental or eye doctors? Doesn't look like it. Wikipedia says it also doesn't cover long term care, home-care, or prescription drugs... LMAO

 

What the fuck good is that kind of healthcare? That isn't healthcare, that's is government corruption and greed robbing the public blind. What exactly are Canadians paying for when they have to pay for eye appointments, dentist appointments, drugs, and long term care out of pocket or with private insurance policies?

It seems to me like Canadians, on average are paying a shitload of money for a whole shitload of nothing.

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The theft comment was more than anything just an emotional remark to Bloots being a fucking cunt to me. I should be used to it by now, considering he always wants to be a snarky cunt and pick a fight with me, but whatevs.

 

Vin nailed it BTW. If you're a person who cannot afford healthcare from your savings, you will find a way to get your services under the requirement you pay it back over time. You don't just suddenly have millions of people dropping dead because the government isn't intervening to pay for healthcare.

 

I'm fine with paying an amount which guarantees the healthcare of individuals who are not able to make a decision as to whether or not they want to pursue some form of healthcare. I primarily focus on children, but would go as far as to include people who some of mental illnesses which make them unable to care for themselves. Individuals who suffer from things like dementia, for example. These are people who should be guaranteed healthcare, solely because they are incapable of making the decision for themselves whether or not they want to pursue it. They're also incapable of pursuing it for the most part in general due to physical or mental limitations. The burden of their costs should fall on everyone else, solely because there is nowhere else for it to fall.

 

The problem with guaranteeing healthcare for all is that it simply eliminates people who would potentially pursue healthcare from the market in favor of accepting state-subsidized plans. It also forces individuals to essentially join something that they did not sign up for. Think of the penalty that is given to people who do not sign up for health insurance under the Obama administration. If you decline to participate in paying for insurance, which should be your right as a private citizen to do, you are fined approximately 2.5% of your income. Let's propose under a single-payer system that we eliminate the fine that is brought about by not pursuing insurance. You're still paying for it anyways because you're obligated by the state to pay into the system via taxes, even if you believe your income could be better spent.

 

It's a classic case of the state pretending that they know best, so they should be allowed to do what they want to protect their citizens. It's absolutely ridiculous to say that all individuals should be required to have health insurance, and be forced to pay a mandatory tax rather than pursue their own alternatives within a market.

 

In the current system, you're seeing a tremendous cut in the ability of individuals to pursue different plans because they are being forced to pay for a state-subsidized plan through taxes. The percentage of their income that is taken away to pay for the ACA is a percentage that could have been utilized for different healthcare options, or anything they desired to purchase. Raising the entrance level to the private market of healthcare lowers the quality of it for everyone.

 

Competition doesn't turn everything into a bunch of robotic producers who are nailing the most effective rates 100% of the time, and it's silly to think it does that. The market will still naturally have winners and losers based on where people throw their chips in. It does eliminate the most ineffective groups, though. If a company fails, it's a sign that it did not find a place in the market, or was washed out due to something in market conditions. Maybe that sector of the economy wasn't favorable at the time? Maybe the owner was not focused enough and was ineffective in running the company? Maybe the company created a faulty product? All of these things could be a reason for a company to fail, but the difference is what happens afterwards. A company who has a failed idea would have to succeed in once again raising the capital to restart production. They would also have to adapt to the market conditions that caused them to fail the first time, or they would fail again. The government may not be more likely to invest in a failed idea, but the money required to invest is easier to attain. It's easier for the government to collect taxes and utilize it for their own needs than it is for a company to collect enough capital to restart, or for that matter start up at all. Ever heard the whole, "If I have to spend my money, I select for quality and cost effectiveness. If I have to spend your money, I select for quality alone" saying?

 

Yeah, I'm fine with paying a portion of my income to those who are incapable of deciding for themselves what they wish to do for healthcare. Back to the children and mentally incapable. As much as I'd like to think private charity would help front the costs for medical bills of those cases, it's not effective enough to hit as high a coverage rate as state care, although it would typically be more effective care if it were through private charity than state care.

 

The problem is when you start spreading that coverage to everyone and the costs rises significantly for the entire population. The coverage isn't necessary for everyone, and it should be very limited as to who gets to take money out of the state pool. If someone doesn't qualify for funding from the state for their care, then they should take on the debt and receive the care, or look to private charity to help them with the costs. (GoFundMe is a hell of a drug.)

 

Sean, you gotta know better than thinking we can manage the government better without significantly decreasing the size. We gonna keep spending trillions on bombing other nations if we keep allowing a government that imposes ridiculous tax rates. Doesn't help they have a knack for killing brown people either.

 

Yeah, I'm not gonna pretend the American healthcare system is anything but a joke right now. The regulations put in place by the ACA have fucked insurance companies up in terms of profit margins, so they've significantly increased costs. That's tipped over onto the actual healthcare providers, and now everyone is raising prices as a huge fuck you to each other. You either go balls to the wall with state intervention and a single-payer system, or you pursue the free market option. Anything in the middle and it becomes a giant pile of shit. I think everyone tends to agree the ACA is garbage. :p

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As long as inflation exists and the population grows at a steady rate, costs will continue to go up, that's just how the market works. And while the government doesn't cover most dental or eye care, prescription drugs are not just 100% off the table, depending on various social factors, provinces, all that minutia. And of course hospital services, tests and stuff are simply less expensive than they would be in the states. It's not a perfect system, no system is, but our government spends less per person to cover health care than yours does, and it has the added benefit of actually covering everyone. The blanket may have holes, but at least it's not a $50000 dish towel.

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That's how the... market... works?

Say no more.

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inflation causes things to get more expensive, man doesn't that just bite.

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As long as inflation exists and the population grows at a steady rate, costs will continue to go up, that's just how the market works. And while the government doesn't cover most dental or eye care, prescription drugs are not just 100% off the table, depending on various social factors, provinces, all that minutia. And of course hospital services, tests and stuff are simply less expensive than they would be in the states. It's not a perfect system, no system is, but our government spends less per person to cover health care than yours does, and it has the added benefit of actually covering everyone. The blanket may have holes, but at least it's not a $50000 dish towel.

 

:think:

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Weird ain't it, that about 48% of medical expenses that is covered by the government in the States, and it's still more per person than the 70% our government covers.

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I mean, I did call our healthcare system shit TBF, I'm just trying to wrap my head around the fact we had people support ACA when we're getting bodied that badly in comparison to your rates. :yao:

 

Y'all see that Rachel Maddow shit? :ooo:

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Weird ain't it, that about 48% of medical expenses that is covered by the government in the States, and it's still more per person than the 70% our government covers.

 

Yet 3/4 of your population still has supplementary forms of private health care... because the other stuff is just so great.

 

Not to mention, most of your provinces don't give two shits about mental health either. So you are basically covered as long as you scrape your knee after falling off your bike.

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The highest minimum wage anywhere in Canada is $15 from what I found. So if you have a married couple with two kids making the highest minimum wage, you're look at 57k a year.. That comes out to be 20% of pre tax income that is being taken out for health insurance.

You're making an example of a family that would likely be in one of the lowest income brackets and then assuming they're paying the average. I don't know a lot about Canada's healthcare system, but that's not how this type of system typically works.

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You're making an example of a family that would likely be in one of the lowest income brackets and then assuming they're paying the average. I don't know a lot about Canada's healthcare system, but that's not how this type of system typically works.

That's not the point but sure. Even if they pay a flat 10% they are getting screwed.

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Cherry feels bad for the poor insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies that are just struggling to get by with all these troublesome regulations.... what? lol

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