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#21 Sarge

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 08:34 PM

I said he has it easier than other QBs but I don't fault him for it. Gotta do what you're good at. The easier path, however, doesn't make you a Top 5 player at your position ever.

His career and coaches have catered to his individual success. Screw winning.

Also I think the fact that counts towards like 25M of the cap speaks volumes. He's a me-first player -- probably better suited to be a WR.

 

He doesn't have it easier though... it only looks easier because he makes good choices. You are honestly trying to say Brees is less of a QB somehow because he doesn't force throws when his receivers are covered. He instead looks to his RB's and TE's who have better matchups. 

 

That's not called having an easier path. That's called being smart with the football. I'd say it works out pretty good with the amount of points he has put up in his career. 


Edited by Sarge, 30 January 2017 - 08:35 PM.

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BLUE : (19 November 2015 - 11:15 PM)Julius Thomas looks like an overweight Cam Newton with a porn stache.

#22 Banned4Ever

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 08:43 PM

 

He doesn't have it easier though... it only looks easier because he makes good choices. You are honestly trying to say Brees is less of a QB somehow because he doesn't force throws when his receivers are covered. He instead looks to his RB's and TE's who have better matchups. 

 

That's not called having an easier path. That's called being smart with the football. I'd say it works out pretty good with the amount of points he has put up in his career. 

 

 

It's not easier throwing to RBs than WRs? Come on man.. Come on. Lol. You can defend Brees all you want, but don't go the the route you are.

Alex Smith's whole career is based around the fact that people make fun of him for checking it down all the time. Brees isn't untouchable. 

 

It's definitely the easier the path. 

Where would you put Brees all time, roughly speaking?


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#23 Sarge

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 09:23 PM

lol @ calling someone with the YPA of Brees a check-down QB. Dude...really?

 

I really forgot how much of a hater you are until just now. 


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BLUE : (19 November 2015 - 11:15 PM)Julius Thomas looks like an overweight Cam Newton with a porn stache.

#24 Banned4Ever

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:08 PM

Why is a sub 7 YPA that great? When you complete more passes, your YPA is going to be naturally higher unless your guys are getting tackled behind the line. Brees has that inherently because 10-13% more of his completions go to his backs. 

And you didn't answer my question -- where do you rank him all time?


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#25 oochymp

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:22 PM

FWIW Brees was second in the league in air yardage (which subtracts YAC from total passing yards) and since he does have large volume stats based on the team he averaged 4.15 air yards per attempt, that's comparable to Tom Brady (4.17), Andy Dalton (4.13), and Ben Roethlisberger (4.12) and ahead of Philip Rivers (3.94) and Aaron Rodgers (3.94).  If you'd rather look at percentages, 53.7% of his yards this year were air yards, which is comparable to Aaron Rodgers (53.9%) and ahead of Matt Ryan (51.9%), Philip Rivers (51.9%), Joe Flacco (50.9%), Tom Brady (50.7%), and Matt Stafford (48.5%) so even if a lot of his passes are going to RBs he's not just checking down constantly.

 

Here's my source: Quarterback Air Yards: 2016 NFL Season I'm assuming that site is reliable but it's not one I've used much


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TITANS: 9-7 Capitals: 55-19-8 (118 points)

Titans Postseason ('16-17): None Capitals Postseason ('16-17): Don't Care

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#26 Banned4Ever

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 12:41 AM

% is better because he threw the ball 63 times more than the next closest guy you named... Easy to get air yards when you throw 700 times a year.


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#27 seanbrock

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 01:02 AM

The Saints have spent most of their draft picks trying and failing to improve their defense. Cooks and Michael Thomas are both high draft picks (first and second round) and are now featured prominently in their offense, more so than any TE or RB because they're the best players he has to throw to. Like I said, him not wanting receivers and not throwing to receivers because he wants his stats to be good is absurd. It might be even more absurd to think that he doesn't care about winning championships. Maybe you were exaggerating when you made that claim but there's no way anyone could succeed in the NFL with that kind of mindset.
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#28 Banned4Ever

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 01:41 AM

The Saints have spent most of their draft picks trying and failing to improve their defense. Cooks and Michael Thomas are both high draft picks (first and second round) and are now featured prominently in their offense, more so than any TE or RB because they're the best players he has to throw to. Like I said, him not wanting receivers and not throwing to receivers because he wants his stats to be good is absurd. It might be even more absurd to think that he doesn't care about winning championships. Maybe you were exaggerating when you made that claim but there's no way anyone could succeed in the NFL with that kind of mindset.

 

Oh, It's definitely moved that way in recent years, look at my chart, the number of throws to his backs is slowly decreasing (but still higher than other great QBs in the game today). They have focused more on WRs since Jimmy Graham and Darren Sproles have left. You're looking at his career through a window that fits your narrative though. You're talking about 3 years (since cooks and thomas have been there) of 15 years as a starter. 


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#29 seanbrock

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 08:41 AM

The Saints drafted Meachem in the first round and he was a bust for a few years after that they didn't draft receivers high because they had a good offense. If you look at the Saints draft history since Brees has been with the team they've spent most of their picks on offensive line and defense. Their defense is so bad and they miss on so many picks they have to keep going for defense because as long as Brees is there and he has a good line they know they'll have an offense at the top of the league.It's not like they're spending a lot of money to bring in RB's and TE's. If they were better at evaluating and developing defensive talent I'm sure they would have had the luxury of drafting WR's. They spent a first round pick on Mark Ingram, not because he was a receiving threat but because at the time their running game was pitiful. The notion that Brees wants to throw check downs to pad his stats is just kind of laughable. No QB would rather throw check downs then throw it deep all QB's want to air it and throw deep passes. Even somebody like noodle arm Alex Smith likes to throw deep. I'm pretty sure you played HS ball or some competitive organized sport. Can't remember for sure, but don't you remember what it's like? Nobody thinks like that.

 

When you look at the Saints draft history though it makes it even more evident, the failures of the organization to, like I said, evaluate and develop defensive players. They basically did the same thing on that side of the ball that the Browns have been doing for years with QB's. You can't sign enough free agents to make up for the amount of misses they've had in the draft, so Brees' contract has definitely not been what's held them back. The amount of teams that have built through free agency and have been successful is extremely small anyway.

 

 

Even the picks they have hit on defensively are pretty uninspiring save Cameron Jordan.You kind of have to keep drafting defense when you're consistently ranking at or near the bottom of the league. The Saints have put up some of the worst defensive seasons in NFL history while Brees was QB. Compare that need to the WR position when you're ranked top 5 in points scored and yardage every year with what you have and it's a no brainer. Their management and coaching staff just hasn't gotten the job done.


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#30 Eefluxx

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 09:14 AM

Wow a thread about the Saints I didn't start

 

So just a few things, I know the Saints have gotten rid of some of the defensive staff and special teams staff, I know Dennis Allen was retained as DC and Mike Nolan brought in to be LB coach and I think Asst. HC. Those are some changes defensive wise that have been made.

 

As some have said Saints have missed on defensive draft picks a lot since the Payton/Loomis era started. When they brought in Jeff Ireland as head scout those picks have gotten somewhat better but still not good enough.

 

I read every post in this thread so far, and I tried to understand what JD was saying but I do want to ask when you were saying he throws more to his RB's (which in case I think if any QB had a Reggie Bush or Darren Sproles to throw to they would), but how many times were those RB's actually split out wide as a wide receiver? The Saints are notorious for splitting both TE's and RB's out wide. Yes he does throw a lot of screens as well but I know both Sproles and Bush lined up at WR a lot for the Saints. Hell Graham wanted WR money because he lined up more at receiver than TE.

 

As for air yards and 700 passes in a season, again, go back to the defense, when you are constantly behind you throw more to try to get back in the game. During their super bowl year Brees didn't have his (as now) customary 5000 yards in a season because they rarely had to play catch up. They had a complimentary defense and a balanced offense because of it.

 

And as for dumping off passes, Brees does have more 20+ yard completions as well 40+ yard completions than both Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr. and Aaron Rodgers in a career. (according to NFL.com stats anyway)

 

Would I put him best QB ever? no, I think Tom pretty much solidified that last night. 

Would I put him ahead of Montana or Manning? No unless he wins the next 3 super bowls then yes.

Ahead of Favre? Well within the next 2 years earliest he might break his records.

 

Anyways that is my two cents on it. I know I am more defensive on the subject since I am a Saints fan and Brees is my QB.


Edited by Eefluxx, 06 February 2017 - 09:15 AM.

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#31 Milla4Prez63

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 12:21 PM

I do agree that the Saints' offense is designed to produce high volume numbers and Brees is not as good as his numbers would indicate but it's hard to argue against what he's accomplished, especially with a ring. Definately not a top 5 or even top 10 QB of all time, but top 5 of his time for sure.


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#32 Bucman

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:48 PM

Brees was pretty friggin good before he got to New Orleans. He's as good as his numbers indicate
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