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Super Bowl LI - Falcons vs Pats

Super Bowl LI  

12 members have voted

  1. 1. Who wins?

    • Atlanta Falcons
    • New England Patriots


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Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr. is not 5he goat lol. The Patriots are 14 and 5 without Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr. and have still had one of the leagues top offenses without Brady. There is no other hall of fame QB in the history of the game whose team had that much success. Put Scott Tolzein in for Aaron Rodgers and the Packers would probably lose and lose badly to the fucking Browns. We saw how the Colts fell apart without Peyton until Luck. Than was saying it was a small sample size or some bullshit but show me a QB with a better sample size. The Patriots looked like the best team in the league without Brady AND Gronk. Brady is a hall of fame and an all time great but the Pats success has MUCH more to do with Belichick. I'd say like 70/30 in Belichick's favor.

 

Lmao, sean.

 

It is a small sample size compared to the rest of his career, yes. I guess if we have a trend in 13 fucking games it must be true for the whole thing.

 

So I guess you would say that because teams with white jerseys are now 12-1 in the last 13 SBs that that means that jersey color actually affects winning percentage. Clearly not a small sample size if 19 games isnt a small sample size compared to like 200.

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call me a homer or whatever as a big James White fan prior to this game. Thought he had a great game. the 2 point conversion don't forget. He looked liked the tougher runner as well. lolBlount

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I don't think it's crazy to say Brady isn't the GOAT.

 

Let's look at a few things.

 

Against the Seahawks, Pete Carrolls bad playcall LOST the Superbowl for them. Doesnt matter what Brady did that game. He didn't win the super bowl.. that bad call did. He was just in a lucky position to claim a Superbowl. That win didn't do anything for his legacy IMO. Didn't move up or down. Being lucky doesn't make u the best despite his # of rings.

 

This game Atlanta choked. When your up big, you lose the game more than the other team wins it IMO again. Matt Ryan taking a sack in field goal range is what did it in. Brady did make the plays necessary to come back yes. But 25 points Is FOUR possessions. Brady could of thrown for 700 yards and Atlanta still should of won.

 

He has TWO SUPERBOWLS where the other team lost the game more than Brady won it. For that reason it's a wash on both. He shouldn't move up because luck shouldn't dictate someone's legacy. It makes it not as impressive. Let's be honest here. People were more shocked at how the Falcons choked so bad vs Brady and company coming back. That right there should be the answer.

 

This is my opinion again so if u disagree that's fine. I just don't think sports should have an absolute. Luck is part of the game yes. But when I compare the greats on other sports, I can't say they got lucky twice.

 

I don't hate Tom Brady at all either. I think he's definitely one of the best PLAYERS of all time. I just can't call him the GOAT.

 

Put it this way. The NFL is watered down compared to before. If my Titans won 5 SUPERBOWLS when the league is this weak, you will not hear me saying anything about GOAT. From Mariota to the team itself. I could CONSIDER them among the best but that's as far as I would go.

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Lmao, sean.

 

It is a small sample size compared to the rest of his career, yes. I guess if we have a trend in 13 fucking games it must be true for the whole thing.

 

So I guess you would say that because teams with white jerseys are now 12-1 in the last 13 SBs that that means that jersey color actually affects winning percentage. Clearly not a small sample size if 19 games isnt a small sample size compared to like 200.

 

Yeah you're right, jersey colors are the exact same thing as actual play on the field lol. The fact that the Pats have replaced countless players and kept on rolling means nothing too right? Your only counter argument to all my points is "small sample size." Yet you've done absolutely nothing to make an actual point yourself but make dumb sarcastic comments. Good job. Clearly i'm out of my depth with you than.

Edited by seanbrock

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I don't think it's crazy to say Brady isn't the GOAT.

 

Let's look at a few things.

 

Against the Seahawks, Pete Carrolls bad playcall LOST the Superbowl for them. Doesnt matter what Brady did that game. He didn't win the super bowl.. that bad call did. He was just in a lucky position to claim a Superbowl. That win didn't do anything for his legacy IMO. Didn't move up or down. Being lucky doesn't make u the best despite his # of rings.

 

This game Atlanta choked. When your up big, you lose the game more than the other team wins it IMO again. Matt Ryan taking a sack in field goal range is what did it in. Brady did make the plays necessary to come back yes. But 25 points Is FOUR possessions. Brady could of thrown for 700 yards and Atlanta still should of won.

 

He has TWO SUPERBOWLS where the other team lost the game more than Brady won it. For that reason it's a wash on both. He shouldn't move up because luck shouldn't dictate someone's legacy. It makes it not as impressive. Let's be honest here. People were more shocked at how the Falcons choked so bad vs Brady and company coming back. That right there should be the answer.

 

This is my opinion again so if u disagree that's fine. I just don't think sports should have an absolute. Luck is part of the game yes. But when I compare the greats on other sports, I can't say they got lucky twice.

 

I don't hate Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr. at all either. I think he's definitely one of the best PLAYERS of all time. I just can't call him the GOAT.

 

Put it this way. The NFL is watered down compared to before. If my Titans won 5 SUPERBOWLS when the league is this weak, you will not hear me saying anything about GOAT. From Mariota to the team itself. I could CONSIDER them among the best but that's as far as I would go.

 

Right. Tom Brady had nothing to do with coming back from 10 points down in the 4th quarter against the Legion of Boom. One could argue that the Hawks were lucky to even be in that position, given the Kearse catch that set them up.

 

NFL is watered down compared to before is straight up bullshit.

Yeah you're right, jersey colors are the exact same thing as actual play on the field lol. The fact that the Pats have replaced countless players and kept on rolling means nothing too right? Your only counter argument to all my points is "small sample size." Yet you've done absolutely nothing to make an actual point yourself but make dumb sarcastic comments. Good job. Clearly i'm out of my depth with you than.

 

The point is you're comparing a horribly small sample size and acting like it means jack shit. It doesn't. You're literally looking at one season where they went 11-5 against a terribly soft schedule and acting like somehow that means Brady is a system QB.

 

Do some actual analysis so I have something to respond too, and I will. You're doing nothing but using a small sample size which is biased because of their fucking easy as cake schedule that year to justify your position.

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I don't think it's crazy to say Brady isn't the GOAT.

 

Let's look at a few things.

 

Against the Seahawks, Pete Carrolls bad playcall LOST the Superbowl for them. Doesnt matter what Brady did that game. He didn't win the super bowl.. that bad call did. He was just in a lucky position to claim a Superbowl. That win didn't do anything for his legacy IMO. Didn't move up or down. Being lucky doesn't make u the best despite his # of rings.

 

This game Atlanta choked. When your up big, you lose the game more than the other team wins it IMO again. Matt Ryan taking a sack in field goal range is what did it in. Brady did make the plays necessary to come back yes. But 25 points Is FOUR possessions. Brady could of thrown for 700 yards and Atlanta still should of won.

 

He has TWO SUPERBOWLS where the other team lost the game more than Brady won it. For that reason it's a wash on both. He shouldn't move up because luck shouldn't dictate someone's legacy. It makes it not as impressive. Let's be honest here. People were more shocked at how the Falcons choked so bad vs Brady and company coming back. That right there should be the answer.

 

This is my opinion again so if u disagree that's fine. I just don't think sports should have an absolute. Luck is part of the game yes. But when I compare the greats on other sports, I can't say they got lucky twice.

 

I don't hate Tom Brady at all either. I think he's definitely one of the best PLAYERS of all time. I just can't call him the GOAT.

 

Put it this way. The NFL is watered down compared to before. If my Titans won 5 SUPERBOWLS when the league is this weak, you will not hear me saying anything about GOAT. From Mariota to the team itself. I could CONSIDER them among the best but that's as far as I would go.

Barely beating the Panthers due to John Kasay not being able kick a kickoff without having it go out of bounds.

 

Barely beating the Eagles due to McNabb not being able to resist turning the ball over.

 

Thankfully I don't remember Pats/Rams, but I'm sure something happened in that game too, because it always does.

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Right. Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr. had nothing to do with coming back from 10 points down in the 4th quarter against the Legion of Boom. One could argue that the Hawks were lucky to even be in that position, given the Kearse catch that set them up.

 

NFL is watered down compared to before is straight up bullshit.

 

 

The point is you're comparing a horribly small sample size and acting like it means jack shit. It doesn't. You're literally looking at one season where they went 11-5 against a terribly soft schedule and acting like somehow that means Brady is a system QB.

 

Do some actual analysis so I have something to respond too, and I will. You're doing nothing but using a small sample size which is biased because of their fucking easy as cake schedule that year to justify your position.

It's the 11-5 season combined with the 4 game suspension that he had this year actually, so it's 3 QB's and 2 seasons. It's also a team that has replaced so many players and just never stopped winning. They traded one of their best players MID SEASON and didn't skip a beat. It's over a seasons worth of games when compared to any other QB over that kind of span of games I guarantee you nobody comes close. You can't tell me it means nothing dude. That would be an awful lot of coincidences.

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I agree that Brady is better than they are. Like I said, he's the most important piece to the puzzle but he's a hell of a lot more replaceable than any other top flight QB in the league. Like I said, the Pats looked like the best team in the league this year without their two best players. One of them being their QB. Even when teams like the Steelers win games without Ben, their offense isn't looking as good as the Patriots did. Pats DESTROYED Houston without Brady and Gronk and they were a playoff team.

 

When you have the #1 scoring defense in the league... and Brock Osweiler is the opposing QB... this just isn't impressive whatsoever, should be pretty standard.

 

Even when you don't have a top scoring defense... beating the Texans with any QB isn't really a challenge.

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Dude, what is the success rate of back up QB's against elite defenses? I'll give you a hint...it isn't high.

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Barely beating the Panthers due to John Kasay not being able kick a kickoff without having it go out of bounds.

 

Barely beating the Eagles due to McNabb not being able to resist turning the ball over.

 

Thankfully I don't remember Pats/Rams, but I'm sure something happened in that game too, because it always does.

The Panthers were tied and kicking off. They did fuck up kicking it out of bounds but they weren't in position to win.

 

Right. Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr. had nothing to do with coming back from 10 points down in the 4th quarter against the Legion of Boom. One could argue that the Hawks were lucky to even be in that position, given the Kearse catch that set them up.

 

NFL is watered down compared to before is straight up bullshit.

As I said, nothing Brady did up to THAT PLAY would have mattered. Lynch scores and that's game. When someone else fucks up to give your team a win, I can't put that on the opposing qb for winning. He had nothing to do with it.

 

There has been MANY TIMES you have complained, "oh this team didn't really beat us etc etc". That's the same concept I'm talking about here. Luck or some bullshit doesn't equate to WINNING the game rather than being lucky the opposing team lost it. If Brady throws the GW TD that's different.

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The Panthers were tied and kicking off. They did fuck up kicking it out of bounds but they weren't in position to win.

 

 

It was still something stupid that led to them winning,

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5 super bowls!! Feels amazing. The Falcons speed on defense was really impressive, they were absolutely swarming. They also did an incredible job of taking away the middle of the field. I've never seen a game where Brady had to make as many high risk throws towards the sideline and outside the numbers like that in my life. The offensive line was pathetic tho, holy fuck. They made the Falcons d-line look like the 07 Giants.

 

Being able to win in that way, and come back from that deficit and piss off everyone makes it all the more sweeter. Easily the best game I've ever watched as a Pats fan. Gotta hand it to the Falcons tho, they did everything in their power to let us come back, thank you Matt Ryan, Kyle Shanahan, and everyone else that made this win possible. :chipeagles:

 

davis_sb1_spts.jpg?uuid=AC2O_OwiEeawLNsW

 

 

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That's BC words. Not mine. :badass: Blount has always been garbage.

 

The Blount game-changer comment was most certainly your (edit: Weapons) post. You listed him and Marshawn Lynch together as being on very similar levels, in which case JD and others promptly set you straight on. I cannot remember which thread that occurred in but its one of the worst comparisons ever made on here. Nicely done.

Edited by BC

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I was going to round off a long post, but most ground has been covered in this thread already, so I'll just say this: the Falcons win 8 games or fewer next year. :yep:

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Since this seems to have morphed into what "is and isn't"...regarding the Patriots...I'll chime in. As a long time Colt fan, I have seen the Patriots so many times against my team, even out of division,...it is dizzying. I should like to give credit to the order of importance in my opinion, as to the aspects or qualities of their team that makes them so successful. I choose to leave out specific cheating comments, but I in no way excuse them, nor minimize their effects on their last almost 2 decades of play.

 

BB's player development/Scheme fit - I hate his attitude, his poorly shrouded smugness, and his hatred for the league, which is his nemesis. That said, his is simply the best today...and is in the conversation for best ever...at finding players to fit what he designs, and developing them for performance. Yes, I know he is head coach, but his coaches do things to his design, and he is unquestionably good at it.

 

Brady's accuracy in the short game - If I alluded to my dislike of the above coach with restraint in the above paragraph, I shall alleviate it completely from this player...save one caveat. There are not adequate words, time available, and allotted character space to properly share my vitriol, and none of it has to do with his winning. That said, he is one of the most accurate passers in the short game in the history of the NFL. His long ball, considering how much stupidly extended time he is allowed in the pocket, is simply not of note. He hits players in stride...attacks the middle of the field on crossing routes, with the same artistic prowess that Ichiro Suzuki and Dave Concepcion attacked at the plate.

 

I could extend the list, but the proof in the pudding has already been stated. It is not one of these things, it is the rare marriage of these two together. Take Brady away from them, and they still won a lot of games. Anyone who thinks that Brady going to another franchise would net the same results, I would give them a kind, yet hearty chuckle. BB's prowess as an evaluator is solid, but his development/player to scheme fit is unrivaled in today's game. But what makes his genius achieve star status, is having a deadly accurate QB over the middle who is a major student of the game.

 

It is the pairing of these two skill sets that drives the current Patriot machine. As a Colt fan, I have been lucky enough to have experienced a SB victory recently, so I am very satisfied, and look forward to the next one. But the ending of this pairing in the Pats franchise, is near. I will quaff a large goblet of Merlot when that happens, and sing as many fight songs as I can think of with fervent alacrity....and likely wake the next morning with a well deserved and welcomed hang over.

Edited by Warhorse
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Put it this way, there are a lot of people who think Aaron Rodgers is better than Brady, or at least there were until this game idk but how many people do you think would dispute Bill Belichick as being the best coach in the league? It's been over a decade now that Belichick is the undisputed best coach in the league because there is nobody close and really there hasn't been in a long long time. You have to go back 20-30 years to find a coach that rivals Belichick. It's always been Bill that was head and shoulders above the rest. It's always been Bill that the league was chasing, not Brady.

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The Blount game-changer comment was most certainly your (edit: Weapons) post. You listed him and Marshawn Lynch together as being on very similar levels, in which case JD and others promptly set you straight on. I cannot remember which thread that occurred in but its one of the worst comparisons ever made on here. Nicely done.

I said BC? Damn, I must've been tired as fuck. My bad, brother. I meant Weapon. I didn't argue in the slightest that Blount was a game-changer.

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It's the 11-5 season combined with the 4 game suspension that he had this year actually, so it's 3 QB's and 2 seasons. It's also a team that has replaced so many players and just never stopped winning. They traded one of their best players MID SEASON and didn't skip a beat. It's over a seasons worth of games when compared to any other QB over that kind of span of games I guarantee you nobody comes close. You can't tell me it means nothing dude. That would be an awful lot of coincidences.

 

White Jerseys clearly affect which team wins the Super Bowl. That's 13 games, you cant tell me it means nothing, dude. That would be an awful lot of coincidences.

Edited by Thanatos
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White Jerseys clearly affect which team wins the Super Bowl. That's 13 games, you cant tell me it means nothing, dude. That would be an awful lot of coincidences.

lol is the only response I can offer at this point.

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lol is the only response I can offer at this point.

Its the only response your "logic" is worth, yes.

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Does Belichick being so good take away from Brady's legacy even in the slightest? Belichick is easily a Top 5 coach of all top. IMO, Top 2... And maybe even best ever. And as Sean pointed out, it's not even really close when you look at him compared to anyone else. Nobody is even within distance of reaching his greatness. And I am not just talking about winning and championships... Look at it from an atmosphere / team culture perspective, or team building where he flips over guys like crazy and takes a lot of gambles on old guys who either suck or were good once but haven't been in a while... Or even from a game-planning perspective... And he makes some of the best adjustments in the league. And his mind as a defensive coach is very underrated since he became a head coach, IMO. The guy knows defense better than maybe anyone.

Edited by Favre4Ever

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Belichick is easily the greatest coach of all time. He has dominated the competition with how many hall of famers besides Tom Brady? Randy Moss is about it, Ty Law is borderline but unlikely. He gets guys off the scrapheap it seems like and fits them altogether into this sustainable world-beating machine.

 

This doesn't take away from Tom Brady being the best quarterback of all-time, but if you don't give an equal amount of the credit to Belichick you aren't grasping reality.

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