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Warhorse

Chart of Wins/Defenses

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Interesting stat, Eli's defense played on fire for most of those playoff wins despite ranking low in the regular season. Peyton rode his defense to both his rings along with having some of the greatest support casts offensively of all time in Indy and some damn good receivers in Denver. This stat makes Marino, Fouts, Brees and Luck look a lot better. Good stuff though.

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Would you look at that, two of the QBs considered the greatest of all time also had teams with really good defenses.

 

Funny how things work.

Edited by Vin
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Interesting stat, Eli's defense played on fire for most of those playoff wins despite ranking low in the regular season. Peyton rode his defense to both his rings along with having some of the greatest support casts offensively of all time in Indy and some damn good receivers in Denver. This stat makes Marino, Fouts, Brees and Luck look a lot better. Good stuff though.

If that is what you took from the chart? Are you in politics? You didn't see the obvious stats of Brady, Bradshaw and Montana?

 

Lol. Just really found your response a surprise.

Edited by Warhorse

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If that is what you took from the chart? Are you in politics? You didn't see the obvious stats of Brady, Bradshaw and Montana?

 

Lol. Just really found your response a surprise.

I posted the stats in another thread but his defense for the first ring was putting up like all time great great numbers. They forced 13 turnovers and scored 2 defensive TD's in the playoffs. They allowed 16.2 ppg too. Forcing 13 turnovers and scoring 2 TD's against playoff teams in a span of 4 games is unbelievable. That's fucking insane and we all know he was pretty much terrible for the Broncos the whole season for his last ring but his defense was one of the greatest of all time.

 

Basically if you average 3 forced turnovers a game during a 4 game stretch, you're going to see some success. Peyton's only good game during that whole run was really only a good half.

 

It's almost like football is a team sport.

 

What a strange idea.

Tom Brady's still the undisputed GOAT doh. :yao:

Edited by seanbrock
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It's almost like football is a team sport.

 

What a strange idea.

 

Exactly.

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Comparing the Colts defensive playoff stats from their super bowl winning season to some of the other Super Bowl winning contemporaries

 

2002 Bucs 13 forced turnovers 4 touchdowns scored (holy shit) 11 sacks and 12.2 ppg

 

2008 Steelers 20.3 ppg, 9 sacks, 8 turnovers forced and 2 touchdowns

 

2006 Steelers 15.5 ppg 15 sacks 7 turnovers forced

 

2013 Seahawks 13.3 ppg 4 sacks, 8 turnovers forced 1 TD

 

2014 Seahawks 22.3 ppg 4 sacks 7 turnovers forced 1 TD

 

2015 Denver 14.7 ppg 14 sacks 7 turnovers forced

 

2001 Pats 15.7 ppg 7 turnovers forced 7 sacks

 

2003 Pats 24.3 ppg 7 turnovers forced 12 sacks

 

2004 Pats 19 ppg 7 turnovers forced 12 sacks

 

2000 Ravens 23.8 ppg 12 turnovers forced and 14 sacks

 

That defense absolutely played up to par with the best contemporary defenses of the same era.

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Well this just circles back to the problem of using a single stat to rank players. The general difference between Manning and Brady/Montana in all-time lists is how good they are in the playoffs in the clutch. Fair or not, Manning will be remembered in regards to clutch post season moments for throwing a game-sealing pick 6 vs the Saints or throwing across his body in overtime vs the Ravens, and only has one really memorable post season comeback, vs the Pats in the AFC title game in 06 or whatever year they won the superbowl.

 

Brady and Montana have a long list of performing well under pressure in the playoffs. From Brady's two drives for game winning field goals vs St Louis and Carolina, to now his comeback vs Atlanta, or from Montana's drive against Cinci in the superbowl, or vs Dallas during "The Catch" game.

 

Being clutch when it matters is what most people care about. It's why Jordan is considered the GOAT and no one else is even close in basketball. It's why Brady and Montana are generally ranked above Manning.

 

It's why how good their defenses were is never going to really matter in the grand scheme of things. And how good the defense is statistically is not always indicative of how it plays, especially in the playoffs. There's two examples of that in terms of post season play for the Colts that I can recall. Colts had the 2nd best defense in terms of points in 05 and should have given up 28 points to a Steelers team that averaged 24.3 going in to it if not for Bettis fumbling on the goal line. Then the very next year with the 23rd ranked defense in terms of points, the Colts D dominated in 3 out of the 4 post season games, New England the lone exception.

 

Manning wasn't as bad in the playoffs overall as some like to think he was, at least over the 2nd half of his career(ACtually after winning his first superbowl he generally performed well in the playoffs), but without the same consistently clutch post season moments that Brady and Montana possess, he'll never be considered on the same level as them overall in terms of most people's opinions.

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Hmm Big Ben won 11 games during the one season where the Steelers defense was ranked beyond #16. :notbad:

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Flip that around though and Big Ben also won a lot of games with the worst offensive line line the league and certainly the worst offensive line that I have ever seen IN a super bowl, let a long WIN a super bowl. I did the research a long time ago but he played like 8 of the top 10 defenses that year too.

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Apparently

 

Flip that around though and Big Ben also won a lot of games with the worst offensive line line the league and certainly the worst offensive line that I have ever seen IN a super bowl, let a long WIN a super bowl. I did the research a long time ago but he played like 8 of the top 10 defenses that year too.

 

Imma let you finish, but the Panthers O-line in 50 deserves the title of worst O-line in a SB.

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Apparently

 

 

Imma let you finish, but the Panthers O-line in 50 deserves the title of worst O-line in a SB.

I don't think so, not when you look at what the Panthers did overall in the season being the number 1 offense I believe. They looked bad against Denver but holy shit man they were like 3 deep across the board at DL with elite starters and quality bench players. A QB with the strength, toughness and mobility of Cam Newton can do a lot to hide the flaws of a bad offensive line but you don't score as many points as they do and be the worst offensive line to be in a Super Bowl. It's also easy to get caught up in something that happened recently and with your own team. I know I've over hyped the strengths and weaknesses of my team so I'm not coming at you, just saying it's a natural thing to do.

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They were the number 1 scoring offense, #11 in yards per game which is generally a better indicator.

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Yeah I guess so but when you have an elite defense you play with a lot of short fields too. Didn't they a pretty good special teams unit too? Can't remember off hand.

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