Modern Dating

[BC 331]

^

 

please respond to the mental health thread my friend

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Little digression into DMacs personal life:

 

I've had one girlfriend, and been talking to, but never gotten very close to a decent amount of girls. I'm an incredibly social person who always goes out with friends on weekends, etc but due to saving it for marriage, and a laundry list of awkward moments that can only be described as sexual anxiety, I've maintained my virginity.

 

But more on topic:

But the more and more I see the way relationships and modern dating work, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't spooked.

 

Recently I've been hanging out with a girl in my program who I get along with extremely well, she's very expressive and likes to touch me all over all the time. Recently told me that she "cares for me", and then i find out she also has a boyfriend (long distance). Confronted her about it, she played it off like it's no big deal and still now continues to talk to me as if she was/is single. And the sad thing is, I enjoy her company so much, I've let some of this fly.

 

And people around me treat it like it's no big deal, it's just modern day dating, etc. And I see it happen all the time here. Maybe it's just that we are all architecture students who don't have time for commitments, maybe it's just how it's always been, but if I had to say I have a beef with modern day dating, I'd say it's the general lack of commitment... And everybody being "stuck" between this phase of not really dating, but kinda sorta dating, but not really a relationship, but kinda sorta exclusive. If any of that makes any sense.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Yeah who needs to be loyal? It bothers me too.

[OSUViking 505]

^

 

please respond to the mental health thread my friend

If you'd bother to actually read it you'd see I pretty clearly said 'undesirable' or different behaviors (which to me intuitively includes beliefs) does not indicate mental health issues by themselves.

 

You've played yourself.

[Thanatos 2,847]

If you'd bother to actually read it you'd see I pretty clearly said 'undesirable' or different behaviors (which to me intuitively includes beliefs) does not indicate mental health issues by themselves.

 

You've played yourself.

 

Think BC was replying to the troll, not you.

[OSUViking 505]

Think BC was replying to the troll, not you.

He was responding to PE afaik. My point still stands. I've personally met people who think and believe similar things to PE, the thought that they were mentally ill never crossed my mind.

 

It's a convenient scapegoat to dismiss ideas that someone has no interest in discussing.

[OSUViking 505]

Commitment is just another choice,not a moral obligation.Have fun with who ever you can,when ever you can. Or you'll regret every missed opportunity later in life.

 

I agree with this, and I think we can extrapolate the logic to parenthood as well.

 

I have grown up with expectations from peers and family that I'd pass on my family's name or give my parents grandchildren. I can't really ever recall being excited about having a kid. It literally screams unwanted obligation to me. It took dogsitting the most attention-needy dog I've ever encountered for FIVE DAYS to realize that I'd be an awful parent who would probably cause attachment issues with my child.

 

So yeah, unless I suddenly stop valuing alone time as much, or I get more patient with people (especially the emotional outbursts to be expected from infants, toddlers, and children), or suddenly have more energy to deal with people (this last one is never happening, period), I'm not going to delve into parenthood. Just not for me. Luckily, it seems my girlfriend feels the same way.

Edited December 21, 2017 by OSUViking

[OSUViking 505]

 

another class system/ culture war.

you didnt get married..you didnt have a kid.? what kind odd loser are you? IE why arent you making yourself endlessly tired,day in,day out,like me.

sure, its special if you can handle it and its a bond my mom has with me.

my best friends are 5 brothers (brothers of each other,not mine) who all have huge families.Loving and close family.

they maybe think I didnt accomplish something but they also envy my freedom.. but they cant admit it lol

 

get up-go to work-go to school-pick up the kids-take them to practice-go to the grocery store- dad,I need this/that.

now,if it were 200 years ago..having a kid isnt so bad. Its all the legal and time obligations that make it a hassle now.

 

I think the consolidation of society into industrialized nations focused on the collective productivity has had a lot of negative effects on humans in general. It doesn't seem like we are wired to live this kind of way productively. The more I try and analyze my own experiences, and try to keep others in perspective, it seems like this kind of society has done nothing but breed toxic and negative behaviors to this day. Humans more and more are transitioning into ways of thinking that adapt to the system, rather than adapting the system to how humans tend to behave.

 

All for the sake of productivity.

[SteVo+ 3,702]

All I'm going to add on this subject is, with the state of dating these days, I'm really glad I met my wife when I did. Being single nowadays sucks.

[OSUViking 505]

I actually met someone during the semester in my major. She's quite cool, puts up with my dark humor, and was very understanding when I shared my diagnosis. Basically anyone that doesn't have their heads shoved up social media's ass is cool in my book.

 

That being said, if I hadn't stumbled upon her, I'd still be single. I really do enjoy her company but I can't imagine I'll find someone so patient anytime soon.

Edited December 22, 2017 by OSUViking

[BwareDWare94 723]

All I'm going to add on this subject is, with the state of dating these days, I'm really glad I met my wife when I did. Being single nowadays sucks.

 

Trying to date in 2017 is like trying to water a fake plant. It's hands down the most emotionally destructive thing a person with old school values can do. For us men it's nearly impossible to know what to do in a given situation. You start seeing one girl, she gets mad if you give her attention, then if you try to be a little more scaled back with the next girl, her self-esteem drops because you're not talking to her enough. One way or the other, those two relationships didn't work out, and you get blamed for it. Which is fine. I'll move on and wish you well and I'll know the truth. I just wish it didn't have to be so confusing, so emotionally taxing. I can't "play the field." I'm either interested in a (singular) woman or I'm not interested in anybody. I go about my life until someone catches my eye. Every attempt is a shot in the dark with no backup plan.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

No. It's about the fucking cuntiness of women.

 

Women know today that they can get a man to be inside them in SECONDS and it does not matter how ugly they are. Men are desperate in general... and once certain women grasp that concept, they feel that they are top shit regardless of how ugly or shitty of a person they are...

 

They turn men into dogs and then pick and choose until they find exactly what they want because they have leverage in just about everything... from beginning of meeting at a bar.... to divorce with the kids and house.

I'll be honest man, you're not going to get an argument out of me that women get away with a lot of things that they probably shouldn't. And they have some sort of weird victim culture, that people actually buy into and blame men for, and point fingers at some made-up patriarchy that really doesn't exist to absolve them of all their stupid decisions.

 

That said, when it comes to Turning men into dogs nobody can do that but men themselves. Yeah somebody may do you wrong, but how you react is up to you. We can't blame women for that, we have to hold ourselves to higher standards. It's all on us.

[Thanatos 2,847]

 

Trying to date in 2017 is like trying to water a fake plant. It's hands down the most emotionally destructive thing a person with old school values can do. For us men it's nearly impossible to know what to do in a given situation. You start seeing one girl, she gets mad if you give her attention, then if you try to be a little more scaled back with the next girl, her self-esteem drops because you're not talking to her enough. One way or the other, those two relationships didn't work out, and you get blamed for it. Which is fine. I'll move on and wish you well and I'll know the truth. I just wish it didn't have to be so confusing, so emotionally taxing. I can't "play the field." I'm either interested in a (singular) woman or I'm not interested in anybody. I go about my life until someone catches my eye. Every attempt is a shot in the dark with no backup plan.

 

It sounds to me like you don't know how to communicate.

Early on in the relationship, sit down and talk with your partner. Discuss what you're both looking for- a long term commitment, just some fun and games, just sex?

 

Obviously girls are going to want different things, because they aren't just some bloc that you can use the same strategy with each one of them.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

I want to bring up something else that I think is relevant to dating, but it also has to do with culture in general these days. If you guys don't see or haven't seen this in your own lives and those around you, that's fine... but I have.

 

What I am talking about is young people are more indecisive now than ever. We have been getting blasted with information from all sides for the better part of 10 years now, when you think about it. More and more people are looking around and saying... I don't want to commit to this or that because if I do, it closes off all the other options. This applies to dating, work, traveling, food... everything.

 

It's not that people are always intentionally looking for a better option... it's that even if we are passive, a better option often will present itself to us naturally through the new norm we've started to live in. Although on the other hand, this is precisely what Tinder offers us. We find someone we like, but we don't delete our accounts in case someone even better comes along.

 

I have learned this the hard way... I've met girls and gotten on well with them from online dating sources... but very quickly they freeze all contact with me and don't respond to my messages. The likeliest outcome is that they have found someone they perceive to be better. For hooking up, Tinder and things in that mold are devastatingly easy and efficient. But if you want to find an old school relationship, you gotta use old school means to find it. IMO.

 

(Yes, before anyone says anything, I am well aware that people online have married others they met. I think we can agree that these people are the exception and do not follow the normal pattern described above.)

 

So I told myself that I will no longer participate in online dating. It forced me to become a better and more interesting person so that when girls meet me in real life, rather than online, I can keep their attention. I traveled to another country, learned to speak another language, learned to dance, got a career I enjoy... all of these things added together make me a lot more attractive than I was before. And even if I told someone online about all of those things, they can't really see or know how these things make me a good partner for them.

 

Anyway, long story short... I think as a whole society has become very indecisive, and that makes things hard in many ways, dating being no exception. We can't change that, but we can overcome it. Let's go back to meeting girls in person. At the very least, it shows you have the balls to pursue her in person while she swipes away the 30th guy this week.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Sarge

[BwareDWare94 723]

My question is this, and I will use "I" but I mean this in the general sense--what is the point in perceiving "better" if better is almost always superficial and irrelevant? Why would I prefer to date a, say, slightly better looking woman with half the IQ and no definite future of my original partner who is actually twice as attractive as "ooh, shiny object!" when you factor in intelligence, drive, passion, and potential.

[OSUViking 505]

You could start assuming most people are idiots until they prove otherwise. It's been decently successful for me.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

My question is this, and I will use "I" but I mean this in the general sense--what is the point in perceiving "better" if better is almost always superficial and irrelevant? Why would I prefer to date a, say, slightly better looking woman with half the IQ and no definite future of my original partner who is actually twice as attractive as "ooh, shiny object!" when you factor in intelligence, drive, passion, and potential.

 

Like I said, for the people who are just into hooking up, this doesn't really matter. But on the other hand, it's hard to use a tool like Tinder to find an old school, committed relationship. If that's what people have started using it for, then no wonder they think dating isn't any good anymore. There are other reasons, too, some that have been stated already in this thread.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Sarge

[BwareDWare94 723]

 

It sounds to me like you don't know how to communicate.

Early on in the relationship, sit down and talk with your partner. Discuss what you're both looking for- a long term commitment, just some fun and games, just sex?

 

Obviously girls are going to want different things, because they aren't just some bloc that you can use the same strategy with each one of them.

 

I appreciate your honesty. I will be more observant of myself when I interact with women in the future. At the same time, I've always felt I was quite clear and that the majority of the time, my counterparts were dreadful at communication. I'm not certain I'm wrong. Men are taught to "go after what you want" and women are taught to be elusive, mysterious, and to keep men on our toes. We need to drop these silly guidelines.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

When all else fails just text your best buddy and ask if you want to get blown next to each other in a dark room

[Turry 755]

I'm always down to Eiffel Tower.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Honestly, I've noticed this too. It's one of the more unsettling things I've seen comment something I thought about my head for at least a couple years now, and the conclusion I've came to is very disconcerting. Bare with me, but I think it has everything to do with the media, and get this body shaming. I know, for me it's a revelation to say something like that.

 

Also I don't want any of you guys to take from this, that I think we should all Community website, or have some giant Maricopa and hold hands and sing Kumbaya. That being said I think a lot of the camaraderie between men has been lost, and I think a lot of that has to do with the reason we have so many fragile egos. I will take me for instance, as I don't want to comment on anybody else. I remember I was like 14 or 15 the thought of asking a woman out on a date was terrifying. I didn't want to get rejected and made fun of by my friends. And then a magical thing happened, I asked and I got rejected. Now the other part of this magic cuz I had a buddy ask the same girl a couple days later, and he got rejected. What I learned from that, was that we're all going to get rejected as going to suck for all of us, but that being said I think as men we have to stop laughing at each other and making fun of each other when one of us is as good as another with the ladies. I think a lot of that comment a lot of that friendly mail jostling that we do with each other, is holding a lot of men back from asking women out that they probably should.

 

I also think Society tells us, that unless you're seven or an eight, don't even bother asking how to 5 because it just isn't going to happen. On my best day I was maybe in a comment on my worst as probably a 5. That being said I've got a wife who's on her worst day at 9, and I still to this day don't know how the hell I did it. I just got to that point, to where I said to hell with it, I'm going to ask her out. I was about 9 years ago, after I've got my first apartment had not a dime to my name and only a hopes of getting a garage going. We've been married for 7 years, and I look back and I see a lot of guys who are in my same position, and it said to me. So many men are afraid of getting rejected, that they don't even dare ask for what they really want. I think we need to support each other better, and I think we need to go a long way and saying hey you may not be the prettiest son-of-a-gun in the world, but you're still worth something, you still bring a lot of value to a relationship.

 

I would very much agree with this and would like to add that I think men are very destructive toward one another when it comes to demeaning others for their sexual preferences or openness. I think our culture does have a lot to do with body shaming and such, which leads to feeling like it's not okay to be attracted to anything but society's view of your perfect match. On top of that, being open sexually and admitting to being open to more "taboo" things is frowned upon. Nobody really gives a shit what your preference is in today's age, but it's still something that changes our perception of eachother.

 

-I grew up calling everyone a faggot and making fun of them for sucking dick. Never truly cared if they were/did, but that shit kept a lot of people in the closet or made them feel unable to come out. I know a kid I personally talked a LOT of shit to ended up being gay. He was the tag-along younger brother of a dude I hung out with in middle school--the era when every insult insinuated you were gay and worthless for being so. I feel awful about it now, though I truly didn't mean to hurt him and have actually apologized now that we're grown. You all know me, I am supremely anti-censorship and I love the word "faggot," but I still think there's a lot of work to be done in making people feel comfortable having non-traditional sexual preferences.

 

-Big girls need love too. I love big girls. Booty and tits for days, hell yeah. Being objective and soulless, they're generally submissive and willing to please and they give great head. BUT, most guys are not willing to admit it if they are attracted to them. I love women of all sizes. My last girlfriend was a tiny, "traditionally hot" Latina, but I broke up with her for my current voluptuous, kinda tall gf that I find equally sexy. One of the guys I work with is younger than me--impressionable, insecure, smart as hell. Been trying to boost his confidence, get him back to banging chicks (we work at a huge liquor store in a college town, bitches abound). He finally succeeds and he was afraid to admit it because "she wasn't a catch." She ended up being a bigger girl that I had honestly had impure thoughts about previously. Dudes shouldn't be afraid to like what they like or be open to more than "model" beauty.

 

-We have to stop pretending that the only way for guys to have sex is to be the dominant one going to town on a chick. I, personally, do not get a lot of pleasure out of anal stimulation, but one of my friends said he would love getting his asshole eaten by a chick and I think that's awesome. All it took for him to admit that was me and another guy saying there wouldn't be anything wrong with it if he did (it originally came up as a joke). Our third friend was talking shit and saying how gay he was, what if we had followed suit and this impressionable 19 year old instead went on subtly feeling that it was wrong? Supposedly anal stimulation during orgasm is phenomenal. A couple guys I've known over the years liked to get pegged by their girls, but were always afraid of people knowing. Who really fucking cares? Honestly, I'm more impressed by people that are kinky and can fucking find people to tongue their assholes and plow them with a strap-on.

 

In other words, Relationships are based purely on materialism...and thanks to tv,unless you look a certain way.

Relationships are another class system.

Love is just another meaningless word.you either choose to commit to something or you dont. Morals and marriage are completely invented things. Legality was invented to keep people from doing what ever they want with who ever they want.

For 1000s of years, 23 year old guys married or got together with 15/16 year old women and nobody was worried about it and the young woman was fully functional and liked the guy. Somehow by propaganda, it's become taboo over the last 70 years.

 

It's all by design. Birth control and telling people they can't sex before marriage..one disguised as freedom.the other disguised as religious belief..both serve the same purpose= population control.

Order through chaos: women want too much and no man is good enough.=the perfect storm

Did you ever think maybe for 1000s of years propaganda was making it okay for 23 year olds to bang little girls and maybe society evolved correctly in at least one aspect?

 

Little digression into DMacs personal life:

 

I've had one girlfriend, and been talking to, but never gotten very close to a decent amount of girls. I'm an incredibly social person who always goes out with friends on weekends, etc but due to saving it for marriage, and a laundry list of awkward moments that can only be described as sexual anxiety, I've maintained my virginity.

 

But more on topic:

But the more and more I see the way relationships and modern dating work, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't spooked.

 

Recently I've been hanging out with a girl in my program who I get along with extremely well, she's very expressive and likes to touch me all over all the time. Recently told me that she "cares for me", and then i find out she also has a boyfriend (long distance). Confronted her about it, she played it off like it's no big deal and still now continues to talk to me as if she was/is single. And the sad thing is, I enjoy her company so much, I've let some of this fly.

 

And people around me treat it like it's no big deal, it's just modern day dating, etc. And I see it happen all the time here. Maybe it's just that we are all architecture students who don't have time for commitments, maybe it's just how it's always been, but if I had to say I have a beef with modern day dating, I'd say it's the general lack of commitment... And everybody being "stuck" between this phase of not really dating, but kinda sorta dating, but not really a relationship, but kinda sorta exclusive. If any of that makes any sense.

 

Dmac, I just wanna say that I really appreciate your always thoughtful posts. We've all gotten busy over the years but every time you drop in you come with insight and wisdom. I hope you'll always be able to find time for TGP.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Zack_of_Steel

[Thanatos 2,847]

We have to stop pretending that the only way for guys to have sex is to be the dominant one going to town on a chick. I, personally, do not get a lot of pleasure out of anal stimulation, but one of my friends said he would love getting his asshole eaten by a chick and I think that's awesome. All it took for him to admit that was me and another guy saying there wouldn't be anything wrong with it if he did (it originally came up as a joke). Our third friend was talking shit and saying how gay he was, what if we had followed suit and this impressionable 19 year old instead went on subtly feeling that it was wrong? Supposedly anal stimulation during orgasm is phenomenal. A couple guys I've known over the years liked to get pegged by their girls, but were always afraid of people knowing. Who really fucking cares? Honestly, I'm more impressed by people that are kinky and can fucking find people to tongue their assholes and plow them with a strap-on.

 

I can confirm it is phenomenal.

[seanbrock 1,684]

16 year old girls are a lot different than they were 100+ years ago. Life is a lot different than it was then for a lot of reasons. Propaganda isn't the only catalyst of those changes.

[BwareDWare94 723]

No person under the age of 25 is even close to ready for the kind of commitment marriage requires, not at this point in time. Childhood has become perpetual.

[OSUViking 505]

Is it a lost cause trying to convince Bware to not generalize young people? Starting to seem so...