Civil Discourse: What is the Best Solution to School Shootings?

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Yeah the hate being thrown at the NRA is actually quite impressive. In a political landscape where its hard to garner traction because of Trump and his antics there has been a considerable voice against the NRA.

 

While the lobbying is stupid, shouldnt happen, etc... I find them to be at the bottom of the barrel of possible solutions to the problem we find ourselves in.

 

Finance reform is a huge issue for me and the NRA plays a part in that. But abolish them today and youre still going to have school shootings. Not sure it would stop a single one.

 

This issue is so much bigger / deeper seeded than that.

[BwareDWare94 723]

David Hogg gets hate because he's a 18 year old kid who can't articulate himself like a fully developed adult, which shouldn't be surprising because he's an 18 year old kid. An 18 year old kid who was 17 when he survived a mass shooting and subsequently became an activist. He shouldn't receive so much hate for his inability to articulate himself considering these things.

 

But then you have a student activist in Kyle Kashuv who is younger than Hogg and much, much more eloquent and very clearly more intelligent, so you have that constant comparison if you pay attention to each of their stances. There's a reason Hogg won't debate Kashuv...he'd get annihilated by a smarter, more eloquent young man.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Idk man, I like Joe Rogan but he's kind of just a guy to me. To me when I hear the word thinker something much different comes to mind.

 

Joe Rogan is definitely a smart guy and I think he gives everyone a chance to speak their peace and he doesn't just dismiss shit but he's just a regular dude.

 

As for the other guys you listed, I can't get with you on that. Those guys are dickheads who are only relavent so long as they can react to the dumb authoritarian social justice warriors. Sam Harris in particular is just laughable when it comes to foreign policy.

 

Are they dickheads, though? The greatest thinkers throughout history upset people. What are they going to be years from now if we can somehow avoid this descent into leftist fascism? They are standing in the way of the application of intellectual eugenics. We need to be standing behind these people.

Edited May 27, 2018 by BwareDWare94

[Omerta+ 1,206]

David Hogg gets hate because he's a 18 year old kid who can't articulate himself like a fully developed adult, which shouldn't be surprising because he's an 18 year old kid. An 18 year old kid who was 17 when he survived a mass shooting and subsequently became an activist. He shouldn't receive so much hate for his inability to articulate himself considering these things.

 

But then you have a student activist in Kyle Kashuv who is younger than Hogg and much, much more eloquent and very clearly more intelligent, so you have that constant comparison if you pay attention to each of their stances. There's a reason Hogg won't debate Kashuv...he'd get annihilated by a smarter, more eloquent young man.

 

I think it is much simpler than that. I think he gets hate because he is an attention seeking dickhead who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. He has been trying to be part of something big his whole life and now he uses dead classmates to fuel his brand. He is just a general piece of dogshit. He is the lefts Dakota Meyer or Chris Kyle.

 

And of course Kashuv won't get airtime like Hogg. He is not a leftist cunt who will sell his soul for 15 minutes. Isn't it funny how another mass shooting happens and other people start getting attention and David Hogg is like,"Look at me, remember me, remember what horrible thungs happened to me, guys look at me." What a cunt. The rest of the Parkland people other than him and Emma Gonzalez I actually enjoy but those two can get fucked, or jump off a bridge.

[seanbrock 1,684]

 

Are they dickheads, though? The greatest thinkers throughout history upset people. What are they going to be years from now if we can somehow avoid this descent into leftist fascism? They are standing in the way of the application of intellectual eugenics. We need to be standing behind these people.

I think their reaction to leftist sjw authoritarianism is wrong though. I agree there needs to be a resistance to that but these guys, especially Harris, do nothing but spout out anger and/or state propaganda. The reaction to radical authoritarian leftism shouldn't be radical neo-conservatism disguised as reason by articulate guys. It should be reasonable.

 

If someone identifys as a pineapple it's my choice to either be an asshole (so long as I'm not infringing on their rights) or to just live and let live and move the fuck on. I think most people feel this way but it's asshole sjw's and people like Pederson and Shapiro who are minorities that have been given undue platforms that falsely frame the debate and public discourse on a great many issues.

 

This is of course done on purpose to manipulate people and get them to make political decisions based on emotion and more importantly on things that don't effect our owners bottom line.

Edited May 27, 2018 by seanbrock

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I don't like categorizing Peterson with Shapiro.

 

Peterson started really making a fuss after his employer (a university) told him that him merely voicing his opinions were likely technically illegal. Even having the discussion... was against the law.

Being forced to donate your earnings through taxes isn't being generous. NFL players being forced to stand during the anthem isn't Patriotism.

 

He's been asked and answered multiple times.. he's not against the use of alternate pronouns. He's against legislating what language you can and can't use.

 

You yourself say you have a choice to either be an asshole or go on with your day. Peterson wants that choice. He often would be the asshole, but... guess what, that is what freedom of choice and speech allows and grants us -- the choice. He doesn't care that you call Bware Zir or Zim or Pineapple.

 

Peterson is definitely NOT an SJW simply because he attacks the radical left. That's just tribalistic / labeling laziness. Smack a label on somebody and just instantly dismiss them -- we have to do better than that. He's given lectures on the dangers and temperamental nature of the right, he's gone after them when asked about, etc etc.

If we like labels, he actually fits more into being a liberal... lol. Of the classic variety, as that term has shifted over the years.

[seanbrock 1,684]

Idk, I don't really apy attention to Peterson admittedly because he's lumped in with Harris and Shapiro regularly. Might have to give him a chance idk. If he's against legislating morality and speech then we might share at least some of the same views.

[BwareDWare94 723]

I think their reaction to leftist sjw authoritarianism is wrong though. I agree there needs to be a resistance to that but these guys, especially Harris, do nothing but spout out anger and/or state propaganda. The reaction to radical authoritarian leftism shouldn't be radical neo-conservatism disguised as reason by articulate guys. It should be reasonable.

 

If someone identifys as a pineapple it's my choice to either be an asshole (so long as I'm not infringing on their rights) or to just live and let live and move the fuck on. I think most people feel this way but it's asshole sjw's and people like Pederson and Shapiro who are minorities that have been given undue platforms that falsely frame the debate and public discourse on a great many issues.

 

This is of course done on purpose to manipulate people and get them to make political decisions based on emotion and more importantly on things that don't effect our owners bottom line.

I don't see Shapiro as angry at all, though I would say that I disagree with him much more often than Peterson. Peterson has an aggression to him, but it seems to only show itself when he's being interviewed and they take something he said completely out of context or completely reword it into something worse. For instance, with the Vice interview, the SJW headline said "Peterson says women shouldn't wear makeup and heels to work" when what really happened is they were discussing sexual signaling in the workplace and he added those two to the list of forms of sexual signaling. Peterson is misrepresented more than any public figure in recent times.

 

Also, he has said he'd use special pronouns if asked by a student, but that he wouldn't use them otherwise in order to adhere to C-16.

 

I also disagree on what they say being propaganda. They both cite sources regularly and seeing as Peterson is an actual scientist and clinical psychologist, I happen to value his stance more so than that of fruitcake gender studies idiots who don't have any actual science backing their positions.

Edited May 27, 2018 by BwareDWare94

[seanbrock 1,684]

Shapiro says a lot of angry shit with a level head and he doesn't really show emotion. He's an entertainer so he understands how to piss people off and get people talking about him. He reminds me a lot of Ann Coulter.

[Thanatos 2,847]

The NRA is absolutely a problem and this is not a new thing. They are not defending their constituents, as some people argue, they are simply advocating for more guns. They no longer represent responsible gun ownership, but merely the ownership of more guns. And several politicians are in their back pocket. They are part of the problem and removing their influence from politics is part of the solution.

 

Regarding Peterson and Shapiro, I concur with Favre, Peterson is intelligent, well-spoken, and does his homework. I don't agree with him all the time, but even when I don't, I appreciate listening to someone on the other side of things who clearly knows what he is talking about. I wish everyone would talk and debate like him in this country, we'd get a ton more done at all levels.

 

Shapiro is much more emotional and has some pretty dumb arguments, such as his horribly designed and obviously not well thought out attack on net neutrality.

 

@sean: I can give no greater argument for watching Jordan Peterson than this video. This is Jordan Peterson to a t:

 

Edited May 27, 2018 by Thanatos

[Sarge+ 3,436]

Jordan Peterson is a hero.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Yep. You can tell because people are scurrilously trying to debase him and yet his base continues to grow. This country is finally starting to get there if you are a glass half full type.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Omerta

[RazorStar 4,025]

Clearly the best solution to get rid of school shootings is to get rid of schools though.

[Thanatos 2,847]

That'll be the NRA's next excuse. Clearly it can't be gun control, we have to try all these other things, we can't utilize the one thing that has actually stopped mass shootings in other countries.

[Barracuda 629]

As a member of the NRA, they do advocate responsible gun ownership, offer training and several other benefits to gun owners. Trust me, I get the fucking magazine every month whether I want it or not. They also advocate more gun ownership, which is fine, even if it truly was the only thing they did. Just wanted to clear that up.

[Thanatos 2,847]

To clarify: the local groups that send out flyers and shit is not really the target of my ire. It's the leadership at the top that is full of shit.

 

There are plenty of NRA members that are responsible gun owners, but the leaders at the top have forgotten that entirely and push simply for more guns and less restrictions at the national level.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Thanatos

[Omerta+ 1,206]

As a member of the NRA, they do advocate responsible gun ownership, offer training and several other benefits to gun owners. Trust me, I get the fucking magazine every month whether I want it or not. They also advocate more gun ownership, which is fine, even if it truly was the only thing they did. Just wanted to clear that up.

Dude you can dial that back lol. I used to get that and the stickers all the time. I called and now I get them quarterly and donate every month I think. I think it is important that you brought up the advocacy responsible gun ownership. I think the NRA is being Framed in the worst light imaginable because people are too stupid to do the math. Everybody wants to say, well this country does it this way, as if we were that country and it's relevant. I will never understand it, but alas here we are. I've got nothing but benefit out of the NRA, and I don't see any of the evil that people are talking about.

 

It's not like my magazine is telling me to go out and buy as many AR-15s as possible, leave them on the coffee table along with some heroin, and then have my eight-year-old come in pick one up, and tell him that all of his classmates want him to die, and then pin a $20 bill to his collar and let him go to school. If they do have that issue, I haven't gotten it yet.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Omerta

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

People used to be able to go into a general store with cash and walk out with guns -- we didn't have this mass shooting issue back then. The NRA pushing for more gun ownership isn't really an issue, from my perspective. I think a lot of the NRA's power comes more from being popular than their spending.. No matter what figure you look up for the money they spend in politics it dwarfs in comparison to say the financial sector which throws 500M at politicians like it's nothing.

[Cherry 1,302]

I think one thing with Shapiro/Peterson that society as a whole needs to do is separate them from their supporters when listening to their viewpoints. Both Shapiro and Peterson have plenty of thought out and valuable opinions that are worth listening to, but it's painted as monkeys slinging shit because of the jackass internet warriors and alt-right guys in their corner. Just look up Shapiro or Peterson on YouTube and you'll see a thousand "Dumb brain-washed leftist gets DESTROYED by Shapiro/Peterson" clips that are inflammatory bullshit out of context.

 

There's typically nothing inflammatory about Peterson or Shapiro unless you attack them for their status as a straight white male. Usually they're calm, level-headed, and present a good debate.

 

Need less aggressive fucksticks like Milo and Crowder on the right who'd rather bait a fight or freak-out than discuss wealth, society, and policy.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Chernobyl426

[seanbrock 1,684]

I don't understand why Shapiro is getting so much love here. The guy is a little weasel. At least you guys aren't talking about Sam Harris lol that guy is a clown.

Edited May 28, 2018 by seanbrock

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Why wouldn't he. He is intelligent, articulate, and has a better grasp of politics than almost anybody else with his platform. That does not mean he is right all the time, or I agree with him all the time, but why is he a weasel?

[OSUViking 505]

Idk, I don't really apy attention to Peterson admittedly because he's lumped in with Harris and Shapiro regularly. Might have to give him a chance idk. If he's against legislating morality and speech then we might share at least some of the same views.

I understand the aversion to Shapiro and personally I'm not a fan of him.

 

Peterson is not like that. I think people go way over the top with worshipping him, but he's not in any facet alt right. I hate to sound like Phil, but the people who label Peterson as alt right have no idea what they're talking about and they're just regurgitating something that an "article" (really just a very poorly written blog entry) told them.

 

If you want to form an opinion of Peterson, watch his videos and try to understand what he's saying. People take him out of context so much. Dude is so meticulous with his words, when one of my peers is starting about how ridiculous something he said is I am thinking to myself "oh another instance of someone thinking they know what he said when they really don't".

 

He's not the god that his dickriding fanboys on YT would have you believe, but the people who are so passionate about how awful JP is are just as if not more idiotic.

[OSUViking 505]

I think one thing with Shapiro/Peterson that society as a whole needs to do is separate them from their supporters when listening to their viewpoints. Both Shapiro and Peterson have plenty of thought out and valuable opinions that are worth listening to, but it's painted as monkeys slinging shit because of the jackass internet warriors and alt-right guys in their corner. Just look up Shapiro or Peterson on YouTube and you'll see a thousand "Dumb brain-washed leftist gets DESTROYED by Shapiro/Peterson" clips that are inflammatory bullshit out of context.

There's typically nothing inflammatory about Peterson or Shapiro unless you attack them for their status as a straight white male. Usually they're calm, level-headed, and present a good debate.

Need less aggressive fucksticks like Milo and Crowder on the right who'd rather bait a fight or freak-out than discuss wealth, society, and policy.

This x1000

 

I was explaining to my fairly liberal roommate the other day why I had these channels in my history. I told him I don't have time to watch his full length videos so I get a clip of them, but all the clips are on ridiculous alt-right fanboy channels.

 

Prime example of YT Peterson "supporters" is transphobia. I've not heard an argument from Peterson where after I sat and thought about, concluded he was transphobic. In fact I've read plenty of trans people saying they've written to Peterson or spoken to him at public forum and he was very respectful.

 

Yet YT would have you believe that everything Peterson says is proof there are only two genders or that trans people are disgusting products of neo Marxist propaganda.

 

That's one issue I'm not very supportive of Peterson on. He spouts off a lot about neo Marxist post modernism as if it's a grand conspiracy and those right wing nuts eat that shit up like candy. I think more often than not that has the capacity to be very inflammatory.

Edited May 28, 2018 by OSUViking

[Omerta+ 1,206]

That's one issue I'm not very supportive of Peterson on. He spouts off a lot about neo Marxist post modernism as if it's a grand conspiracy and those right wing nuts eat that shit up like candy. I think more often than not that has the capacity to be very inflammatory.

 

I may not agree with it, but I can at least follow his logic on how he got there. Anybody even half assed familiar with Marxist doctrine and how he views the proletariat and the bourgeoisie would know that he is probably not far off with the Marxist thing. Now it gets mis-characterized and taken out of context to mean things that he is probably not implying, but I do think there is a significant amount of Marxist sentiment among the public now. Have you heard Sean go on about the revolution, or what about these socialist ideas being pushed on us ? I mean that is straight out of the orthodox Marxist playbook.

[seanbrock 1,684]

Our country is and always has been socialist to a degree though. I think without discussing things with labels I'm sure that we could strike the right balance between a socialist nanny state and psychotic 100% Laissez Faire/free market barbarism. I don't want Marxism. I think competition and the ability to be rich does drive society to a degree but when 1 percent of the people take too big a slice of pie it creates a lot of problems for everyone and I don't think you would disagree with that.