DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

I actually had no idea that he never visited with Tampa Bay. That might be an indicator that he's not the pick. If that's the case then it'l probably end up being Houston assuming he's there. Nah, that was just a mistake on my part.

Are the Texans going to play Cushing at ILB next year? I did this thing assuming that they were playing him at OLB next year. But I got a little caried away and forgot about getting an olb. I know a lot of Bucs fans who are apposed to Clayborn, not sure why, but it was b/w Clayborn and Bowers, and something is just telling me Clayborn might end up being the guy on draft day.

MNF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE FINALLY HAVE A MNF GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yay: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: Best believe ima be there... FUCK SCHOOL!!!!!!

Round 4: Carolina Panthers – 98 – Lawrence Guy DT Seattle Seahawks – 99 – Ahmad Black SS Buffalo Bills – 100 - Colin McCarthy ILB Cincinnati Bengals – 101 - Shiloh Keo SS Cleveland Browns – 102 - DeMarcus Van Dyke CB Arizona Cardinals – 103 - Kelvin Sheppard OLB Philadelphia Eagles – 104 – Mark Herzlich OLB Houston Texans – 105 – Jerrell Powe NT New England Patriots – 106 – Brandon Burton CB Detroit Lions – 106 – Robert Sands SS San Francisco 49ers – 107 - DaRel Scott RB Tennessee Titans – 108 – John Moffit G Dallas Cowboys – 109 - Owen Marecic FB Miami Dolphins – 110 - Rob Housler TE St. Louis Rams – 111 - Jurrell Casey DT Oakland Raiders – 112 - Jake Kirkpatrick C Jacksonville Jaguars – 113 - Marcus Gilchrist CB San Francisco 49ers – 114 - Tandon Doss Tampa Bay Buccaneers - 115 - Niles Paul WR New York Giants – 116 – Greg Jones ILB Kansas City Chiefs – 117 - Delone Carter RB Indianapolis Colts – 118 - Terrence Toliver WR Philadelphia Eagles – 119 – DeMarcus Love G/T Jacksonville Jaguars – 120 - Ricky Stanzi QB Buffalo Bills – 121 - Chris Hairston OT Baltimore Ravens – 122 - Chris Carter OLB Atlanta Falcons – 123 - Pierre Allen DE New England Patriots – 124 - Orlando Franklin OT New York Jets – 125 - Austin Pettis WR Chicago Bears – 126 - Kristofer O'Dowd C/G Pittsburgh Steelers – 127 - Taiwan Jones RB Green Bay Packers – 128 - Greg Salas WR Round 5: Carolina Panthers – 129 - Virgil Green Buffalo Bills – 130 - Jalil Brown CB Cincinnati Bengals – 131 - Weslye Saunders TE Kansas City Chiefs – 132 - Derek Newton OT Arizona Cardinals – 133 - Cedrick Thornton DE Cleveland Browns – 134 - Greg Romeus DE Houston Texans – 135 - Stephen Schilling OG Minnesota Vikings – 136 - Richard Sherman S/CB Kansas City Chiefs – 137 – Greg McCelroy QB San Francisco 49ers – 138 - Kenrick Ellis NT Tennessee Titans – 139 - Chykie Brown CB Dallas Cowboys – 140 - Mario Harvey ILB Washington Redskins – 141 - Andrew Jackson OG St. Louis Rams – 142 - Ross Homan OLB Miami Dolphins – 143 – TJ Yeats QB Jacksonville Jaguars – 144 - Denarius Moore WR Oakland Raiders – 145 - Alex Green RB Philadelphia Eagles – 146 - Dion Lewis RB Minnesota Vikings – 147 - Darius Morris G Tampa Bay Buccaneers – 148 - Ugo Chinasa DE Indianapolis Colts – 149 - Pat Devlin QB Detroit Lions – 150 – David Mims OT Washington Redskins – 151 - Chris Neild NT Seattle Seahawks – 152 - Nathan Enderle QB Atlanta Falcons – 153 – Roy Helu RB New England Patriots - 154 – Jeremy Beal OLB Chicago Bears – 155 - Dwayne Harris WR/KR New York Jets – 156 – Cedric Thornton DE/DT Pittsburgh Steelers – 157 - Alex Henery P/K Green bay Packers - Thomas Keiser OLB

I would be pretty disapointed with us taking Anthony with Watt, Smith and Jordan still on the board...

no thanks on the Lions trading up for Prince...

The San Diego Chargers select Zane Taylor, Center, Utah.

Im down...

I have about 9 pair of Jordans, most of them I don't wear anymore. I have 2 Nike Dunks, and 1 black white and brown Nike Hyperdunk... I also have a pair of old school adidas... I don't like to go over 150 for shoes, but I do make exceptions.

3.7 If I ever got below a 3.5 my parents would take me out back and shoot me.

Unless if it's Curtis Brown, the Lions shouldn't address the CB position after the second round IMO. We need a starter at CB not another player who adds depth and a slight possibility to start in a few years, we got plenty of those. But I would be more then ecstatic if this is how our draft went.

very solid. gj.

the BG in V2 doesn't blend well. Not bad overall.

Beason and Nicks are only upsets.

That would mean they are more likely to target Locker or even Mallet in the 1st or second.

All #1 seeds here as well.

Ok? So in the same respect, Suh was making plays on all facets of our defensive line, which allowed Shwartz to move around all our linemen to put them in better position to make plays. And it’s not like our line just played a little better then it did the previous year, our line alone put up more sacks then our whole team did the previous year. And it’s not like our DBs blancketed receivers, our two starters at CB and our starter at SS at the end of the season weren’t even on our roster to begin the season. But on the flip side, Tramon Williams plays ‘elite’, but even though we can’t seem to ignore the fact that Suh had the line with the most depth at every position on the line to help him bolster his stats and play at an elite level… We can completely ignore the fact that the Packers’ defense totaled up 47 sacks, and QBs most of the time when playing the Packers were more worried about getting sacked or getting hit by Clay Matthew and Co. when releasing the ball then they were throwing a pick to Tramon Williams? Once again your taking everything im saying and throwing your own little twists to it. I NEVER bought up Cliff Avril speed rush as a flaw, all I ever said was that in order for a guy who uses a speed rush to effective, there has to be a guy inside who can take up the guard who might kick out with the tackle to allow the tackle to overextend because the tackle knows if the speed rusher tries to cut in at the last second then the guard has him… Suh usually took up a guard, and a center in the passing game, if not, a guard or a HB coming out of the back, and sometimes, all three, one would think that a speed rusher can always get a favorable matchup when an inside guy is drawing up that much attention. And this is where my other problem is with the whole thought process that put him to the next level. Everyone is saying that because Tramon has been doing it for longer – more then one season – that automatically makes him the better player. Which isn’t fair, because the guy who he’s against has only been in the league for ONE year, so shouldn’t you base how good he’s been based on that ONE year? And if you wanna compare based solely on stats because we are trying to figure out who the better player is, shouldn’t a player coming off a year where he was the biggest concern for every OC we went against, and still put up the kinda numbers in both the running and passing game as Suh did get the nod over a player who wasn’t even #1 on the other team’s concern of who to account for?

How is there no sane argument? If a player has only been in the league for one year, and that one year was pretty good when you compare his stats with some of the past DTs, what else can you base that player off of other then that one year? And if we can make an argument that Suh's success was too dependent on his teamnates, why can't we make an even more valid argument that Tramon Williams' 'elite' play has something to do with the fact the Packers had a top 5 pass rushing defense last year? Please point out where exactly I said that Suh's game is perfect? because you keep saying I do, and I seriously have no clue where it's coming from. I even said in my last post that he has flaws, the point of that post was that every player has flaw, even Manning, and Brady, what you can't ignore are the numbers he put up. And how am I turning one of his biggest flaws into a strength? All I said is that when you have a defensive scheme like Shwartz which emphasizes rushing up the field aggressively with almost no sense of gap responsibilities, it will always leave them exposed to getting washed out of there gap responsibilities in the running game at times, and that's a FACT. And if that's the case with just regular DTs in a scheme like that, it's accented when you have a guy like SUh who's nature is to just try to power his way through anyone that comes in his way. Although it led to him getting washed out often, it also led to him being 2nd in the league in TFLs amongst DTs. It's obviously a past of his game he needs to work on, but it's not like it's such a big of a flaw to where he still couldn't get a big number of TFLs. No, it isn't hurting my argument, it just proves it even more. Although we had guys who played exceptionally well, when those guys who played exceptionally well in the pass rushing department, and have NEVER been known for there ability for being good pass rushers, one would think the bulk of there credit should go to the guys in the middle who are eating up the double teams, primarily the one and the only guy on the roster in the middle of our who finished the year with double digit sacks. Once again I never said Suh is the only person who should receive credit for our DLine's great play. That is not what I am getting at, and your so fixed on that your ignoring and shrugging off everything else I am saying. Im saying that when you have a line full of payers who played exceptionally well, the guy who should receive the most of the credit should, or would be the one who led that line in sacks, tackles and TFLs... Especially when that guy played more snaps then anyone else on that, especially when that guy played in one of the two inside gaps that our dline take up, considering the fact that EVERY OL is taught that you ALWAYS protect the middle before the outside. Common sense. Live in Suhville? Really? No matter how much i've talked up Suh.. 1. I have NEVER said Suh is the best DT in even the NFC North, only thing I HAVE said is that he played the best of all the DTs in the NFC North this past season. 2. Go back and look at sb's fantasy draft and you'll see how highly I am on Suh, not only did I not take him, but I went on to say he isn't elite because of his one year, I know what it takes to be an elite player in the NFL. 3. I am not some homer SUh dick rider, I love Suh, I am one of his biggest fans, but I am also a realist and I know how good SUh is, I have seen every Lions game, I have seen the good and bad from Suh. This topic is about Suh, not how deep our dline is, I know what it takes to have a successful Dline,just as much as I know who deserves how much credit for the line's overall success. If we were talking about a different lineman, I wouldn't bring up Suh, as I've always done in the past. 4. I have never, not one, said in any way shape or form that I believe you believe Suh is a mega bust. For whatever reason you take everything I say to some extreme level, everything

I have NEVER said that Suh is in the elite class, but I HAVE said that Suh last year played at an elite level. Which is what this poll is basing all of this off of... How the players performed last season. All your doing here is talking about flaws in his game, every player has flaws in there games. Especially when they are rookies. And actually, Suh did exactly what Shwartz defense tells him to do. He preaches penetration for the lineman, which is the reason why or Dlineman had so many encroachment and offsides so many times, even when our lineman knew it was a run. Jim Shwartz defense when he was in Tennessee was one where he always taught his linemen to run up the field (a-la ALbert Haynesworth) in order to force the running-backs to have to cut back around them, running backs gashing us for 5-10+ yards is not the Line's fault, and Suh's as much as it our LBs who aren't able to scrape over top. Yea there were times where he got washed out of his gap when he rushed up the field but that happens, what you can't ignore are his numbers. If you look back at our LB roster last year, outside of Levy, nobody else is stout against the run. That plays a huge role in this. Lawrence Jackson and Turk McBride split time on the right D-End spot when KVB went down and both had 5+ sacks this past season. Turk started in 9 games in KC in one year, and played in 11 starting in 4 in Detroit the season prior to this and the most he had in a reg. season before this past one was 1.5. Lawrence Jackson started in 10 games in the year previous to this past one, and played in all 16 games, and never recorded a single sack. Neither of these guys were even considered pass rushing threats before coming to Detroit and the two of them amounted for a total of 11 sacks. Not to take away from Cliff Avril, but he has ONE move, the speed rush, and he pulled that move all day every day against OT for the 2 previous seasons and they worked to only garner up 5 sacks in both of his two prior seasons before this past one. He played in 13 games this past season, and played in 13 games the season prior, he played in 15 games his rookie year. He started in 13 games this past season, 2 more then the season before that, and yet you saw an increase in his sacks playing the same position (DE) he had been playing the two previous years, the only difference is they put him to the left side, right next to Suh, Avril never even had to worry about a guard doubling up on him so all he ever did was the speed rush and he made plays. KVB had started in all 16 games in 2009, he started in 11 in 2010, he only mustered 3 sacks in 09 starting all 16, and had 4 sacks this season while starting in 5 less games. Corey Williams was at one point a threat as a pass rusher, but he doesn't have that same explosive step, and in the passing game, and in the running game, you could very well tell that watching him play. He and SLH and SLH both benefitted from Suh being there, especially in the passing game, because it was always in the mind of the center that the guard to his right might need help. Im not trying to take away from any of our linemen, but Suh is no doubt what made our line go. Um, Im giving him waay too much credit for being the 'anchor' for a defense going from being dead last in the NFL in 2009 to jumping up 11 spots to 21 in 2010? Im giving him too much credit for being the 'anchor' for a defense that went from being dead last in pass defense to 16th? Im giving him waay too much credit for being the 'anchor' for our defense almost doubling in sacks from one season to the next? Because making that kinda jump in the NFL on defense is not a big deal at all. I give credit where credit is due. Go back and look at all the threads where a linemen from the Lions has been mentioned and you'll see I give them credit for their play and I never bring up Suh. But your making it seem like they are the reason why Suh had so many 1 on 1 matchups, where really, most of the time it's the opposite.

I never said that he should be considered elite because he played in the pro bowl. I said it should be put into the equation when giving his performance last season a title as 'elite'. Since 2005, there's been two, TWO DTs who have had double digit sacks (NFL.com)... And there numbers go as follow: Warren Sapp (2006): 47 combined tks (15th amongst DTs/NT) 10 sacks (1st amongst DTs) 1 FF Rod Coleman (2005): 40 combined tks (18th amongst DTs/NT) 10.5 sacks (1st amongst DTs) 4 FF Ndamukong Suh (2010): 66 combined tks (3rd amongst DTs/NTs) 10 sacks (1st amongst DTs) 1 FF, 1 INT, 1 TD, 1 FR and although I couldn't find the TFLs for the other two DTs, Suh had 12 which tied for 2nd amongst DTs only behind the guy that PFT loves to drool over. If those numbers don't scream 'elite' performance for a DT in the NFL in one season, then idk what does. Those numbers show that he not only played well in the passing game, but also showed he played well in the running game, consistently making plays on the opponents side of the ball. And this was while everyone knew that he was the center of attention in our whole defense, every team game-planned for Suh before game-planning for any other defensive player on our team. If anything I would even argue Suh should be a higher seed. KVB was out for almost the entire second half of the season including our last 6 games. Corey Williams half way through the season was splitting snaps almost 60-40 with our other emerging DT SLH. Suh played more snaps then any other lineman on our team, and his snaps even increased as the season progressed primarily the last 6 games... And not just at DT, at DE, NT, and even a stand up LB on some passing downs. It's pretty obvious that Suh was the anchor of our defense. And using the whole playoff, and key game thing as a knock against Suh and a plus for Tramon isn't fair because as a whole, the Lions' team was no where near as good as the Packers' and we were in nowhere near the amount of tough games that the Packers were in, which means SUh wouldn't have that oppertunity. But if you want to talk about key situations, Suh had more then his fair share dating back to the first game where when the Bears were 5 yards from our end zone, they ran the ball THREE STRAIGHT times right at Suh (B gap on the weak side), and failed on all three attempts. And overhyped player? Seriously? He deserved every bit of hype he received. There was no rookie defensive player who played as well as Suh did this past season from start to finish. None.

no. Actually, I don't catch your drift. Ok? Suh was an elite defensive tackle last year who lead the Lions' defensive line, which completely hid the fact that our DBs had guys playing considerable amount of time by the end of the year who weren't even on our roster at the start of the year. 'Good defensive tackle' doesn't win pro bowl, and 1st team all pro honors. 'Good defensive tackle' don't get double digit sacks in a season. 'Good defensive tackles' don't end up in the top 3 in there position in tackles, tackles for losses and sacks. Those are elite defensive tackles. To say that Tramon Williams is better then Suh because he made key plays in key games completely throws away the fact that Suh anchored the only part of our defense that truly changed this defense from dead last in the NFL the previous year to 21 in the NFL. Your completely discounting the fact he anchored this Dline the entire season. And your also discounting the fact that our defense was the only reason why we won really all our games and kept us in most of them.

Winfield is the only upset I chose. The fact that it's a tie between Suh and Tramon Williams completely baffles me. Completely.

I'd be alright with ending up with Jones. No complaints here for that considering the players who are off the board... Outside of the fact that I highly doubt the Lions will let Bowers fall past them. A lot of reaches though...

The San Diego Chargers select Josh Bynes, ILB, Auburn.

Ouch.... I would absolutely cried if this is the case...