the Lions fan

Score is production per target. I get that. How does this dwindle away any of the variables in the best WR debate? Pretty much emphasizing targets on a stat sheet. I feel like I'm missing the point...

Did you miss this on page 1 or disagree strongly? I felt it is a good list.

Want to hear a funny anecdote? Too bad. So if you lived in the Bay area at that time and had directtv they covered local games with local announcers. Anyways, they cut away from the end of the 4th in that one deciding some closer game was more important. Only to have the same company advertise a year later that if I had directtv I could've saw the end of that game... fuck directtv I hate your company model. And as for the comparisons between him and other legends, I must point to his fumbles. He makes his own fans nervous and that is his hurdle to being a legend. That being said, he's on his way. But the next time you see an AP/Barry/GOAT thing, look into turnovers.

I like it. I will not post the logical flow of this conclusion but I imagine this will lead to college players ending up in areas due to need and the later rounds of the draft will get more interesting... let's see Edit - need sounds dumb, I mean a greater emphasis on need. As most drafted players are needed....

Seems like a younger guy, might not have grown up with Aeneas.

I was just saying there's a possibility he has stiff competition and the voters might give him a slap on the wrist. It happens, feels like they'll give Randy a slap on the wrist if they have any excuse.

Alstott is the most iconic Buc in my book. Id take Sapp off. But that's another discussion for another day, I like this thread. As for DET... Barry Sanders (...) Jason Hanson (maybe I'm overappreciating him since he's gone, but I don't think so, if anyone did what he has for any team it'd be hard not to put them on their 'mt. Rushmore') Jack Christiansen (google him) And a space reserved for Megatron And because this was so difficult, alternates to ease my guilt. Alternates: Dick Lane, Lem Barney, Bobby Layne, Herman Moore, Kevin Glover, Dick Lebeau, Jim David, Joe Schmidt... A more standard, GOAT, QB, WR, Coach/Lifer/etc. List would be Barry, Layne, Moore and Hanson... so many great players and individuals to be a part of this organization. Good topic, thanks.

There is always merit in discussion. However like most I think yes, gonna have some legit competition as a first ballot but he'll get in quickly enough. Nobodys perfect, but he's done more than enough to get in.

Firstly, I know you love Ware and I am quite fond of him myself. So I'm not going to rebuttle this, ill be nice. He will struggle, when they hired Kiffin it meant mediocrity or a rebuild of their defense. The shifting over the last few years leaves them in poor position to adapt to a tampa 2 style, Ware, like it or not, will be relied upon for the illusion of a pass rush to display his excellent cover skills, to open things up for everyone.

They say that now yes. Look at the guy though, he's a CB or a tweener. He may see safety duties, but id be surprised if he sticks there. Does he look like the last line of defense for the bruiser backs in the NFCW? Edit - I should add I live in AZ, and have become a bit of a cards fan over the years.

I voted for Sanchise, he has a short leash, someone nipping at his heels and the spotlight. Depends on how you define pressure though. Peyton probably leads the way if you view it as superbowl or bust pressure.

Its Blockman. I vote for Brian Quick. I see something in him, something I haven't seen since a young Steve Smith except he has the physical tools as well... I know, crazy.

CIN and DET should be options. Not counting Ertz CINs trio deserves mention as does Megatron. I want to vote SF but ATL is the more proven commodity, esspecially if its just the top 3 guys.

Edit- my phone didn't load the last... 20 posts so my response seems out of left field. Sorry about that. Belicheck is one of the greatest coaches and football minds of all time. Not his fault others haven't done seemingly obvious things like the no huddle crutch or even filming his opponents. He is outside looking in, and has advanced the game enough to deserve the accolades, and the hate. Sure they haven't won it all or dominated everybody since spygate, but if the criticism is not winning it all, you've done something right. Our opinions aside, dude seems to have a weak forearm bone, maybe he needs an achilles transplant.

Chiefs got the better deal. Sherman has serious potential in the right hands. I think hell be a better fit in KC than Arenas in AZ. My money says Cason beats them out for #2. He'll see time competing to round out the backfield but I think Powers and Mathieu offer more. Arians does not value the position... maybe he should look at the alarming amount of 2 and 3 FB teams (on active roster) winning Superbowls. Maybe there really isn't a need on his offense, I think it is a poor move. Why improve when you can adapt? Sherman however, has the skillset to thrive in a Reid system. Being a FB he won't get any statistical love, but he is an underrated athlete who can make blocks in the screen game as well as upfield. Charles is gonna love this guy.

He was a bit of a diva towards the end of his run here last time. Hope that's gone, he did get his paycheck after all...

How about a system where people present picks in PM ahead of time so after their 15 minutes (or 8 hours, whatever) someone can make an informed pick for them. A list of your top picks for each position and positional and individual grades to assist someone in making your pick for you. Maybe only allow this in the later rounds? Seems like first few went smoothly.

Because it is a schoolyard fundamental. His ego makes it so he doesn't need or appreciate others sideline demeanor. So he never appreciated the impact it has. That is why... he's been playing ball his whole life and he still doesn't get it, or appreciate it. And the Mannings don't only pout, I tend to notice them constantly scheming or trying to motivate. Pouting as a go-to is the problem here, your team knows in your heart of hearts you don't enjoy winning you fear losing. Fear and joy are infectious.

If he doesn't appreciate a basic fundamental for motivating his teammates (sideline demeanor) by now he most likely wont. Does the entire defense and coaching staff have to sulk at him for 8 games? Really? That being said he is insanely talented and that's always something to rally behind. Sure, you want more, but he can win and that's enough. Plus there's always a chance he'll pretend to get it. My post sounds overly negative, feel I should mention I love the guy, he's exciting to watch and has all the tools to be an elite NFL QB. Plus so long as he keeps winning and shuns the spotlight (here's a problem) in a year or two this talk will turn into the typical 'was he worth his draft status' talk until he wins a Superbowl or MVP. And on the topic of worst team in the division, its a tough one to call... in my eyes it is CAR, though you could make a case for any team in the put up or shut up NFC South. Tough to call.

I agree. People have the memory loss... he's raw, but he has potential. I've had the opinion he's one of those guys that the switch will turn on once he sees some action at his position. But I am super biased...

I love this site. I miss football observations based on intelligent fandom. Obviously I feel this way as well. And now for my opinion on the topic. I have to say I like Tebow. I think given different circumstances he could be successful, but you can say that about a lot of guys. If you know me I like intangibles, I like tweeners and multiple fronts. Not making a case for Tebow as a tweener btw, but he does have intangibles. I think creative minds could have molded a franchise QB, conventional or not. I just hope it doesn't end with another hypothetical 'what if' tale. I liked the DEN pick, but it was a reach. Late 2nd round could have gotten him. DEN got manipulated/desperate, who knows. I thought it might be a good situation but back-up on a more talented roster with a QB who wouldn't be pressured by the crazy attention of his back-up would have been better. Basically a succesor situation. Didn't happen. Trade to NYJ spelled doom, bad situation. I think Rex thought his media following was bigger and it wouldn't be an issue or something, shame he seems immune to standard and even grand ego checks. Still... I don't see him being signed until someone gets needy a few weeks in. This whole situation is insane though. When was the last time the world was this invested in a QB with his NFL pedigree this far removed from the college ranks? It wrinkles my brain.

Voting needs to be altered or title changed. As it is, it isn't what a defensive player does it will be what a few offensive players don't do. I.e. 96 subpar seasons by #1 QB/RB/WRs happening simultaneously. Were it a purist vote Watt would have had 2/3 vote and an offensive lineman would have won it by now.

AZ and SF killed it, MIN and CIN close behind. Big picture wise SF wins for UFAs. But depending on how things go TB or SEA could end up having the best or worst use of their picks. All around good drafts though, you could make a strong case for at least 10 teams. Now who did the worst is the tougher question. MIA did well but you have to wonder wether they got the value in trading up to 3 and not getting the best player on the board now or arguably in the future. DAL screwed up, in a different direction than usual, which is interesting. Can't picture ol JJ masturbating to any Romo to Frederick highlights, sorry... inside joke about JJ having a deep ball fetish. CLE was staring at a draft full of what they needed, truly would have benefited most from the ol bpa approach, and walked away with less holes filled than most.

Satisfying

In your pricerange a Macbook is by far the most bang for your buck. They are designed for casual PC use and mass produced to pass some savings onto you. Ps I will never own a Mac ever again, I hate the apple store. My true reccomendation would be invest 2k in an alienware. Mine is 5 years old and still comparable to a top of the line laptop from any other company. Its heavier but smokes modern laptops in speed, memory and battery life. Get a Macbook if you're set on $600.