Omerta
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Posts posted by Omerta
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And lets not pretend that STEM is a definitive guide for what is a science as really all STEM is, is a government program created to increase competition for government grants. Psychology by the definition you said you meant but didnt say is considered a natural science because of their derivations from a natural science. That said psychology is not a natural science, thus the academic world is still largely against considering it a science because it has results that can often not be reproduced, and they certainly cant be reproduced with the regularity consistent with legitimate sciences.
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8 minutes ago, Thanatos said:Liberal and far left are not the same thing. If you can't comprehend that after I've spelled it out like four times, I really can't help you there.
Psychology is, at least now, considered a science. It is listed on the official list of STEM degrees. The field of psychology, btw, has many sub-fields. To sit there and argue Neuro-psychology, Bio psychology, and physiological psychology- to name but a few sub-fields of psychology- are not science is asinine. They are hard sciences. Are the armchair psychologists people go to to get counseling, scientists? If that is all they do, then no, not at that time. That is clearly not what we are referring to here, given that we are looking at the human brain and the question of gender vs sex from a scientific standpoint. Can you comprehend that different fields of research have sub-fields of their own, or is that too *nuanced* for you to handle?
Not all fields of psychology are hard empirical sciences like biology. As I stated before. However, many are. And then, once again, you claim I said something I did not. I did not say its a science because I say so. I laid out why psychology is now considered a science. I explained it in my post that you are intentionally lying about what I said to make a point. That is what is insulting. Debate all you want, but when you start lying about what I said, I consider the debate to be over. I told you the three facets of what makes science, science. Psychology has a difficult time with #3, which is why the entire field is not considered an empirical science like biology or geology or what have you.
I didn't make up anything. I left out a hyphen. For someone who types from their phone and makes grammatical errors galore, it is the height of hypocrisy to claim I am lying rather than a simple typo. This is why I put it in quotes:
"I'm killing the game" talks about freaking internet points lol. As in: "I'm killing the game" (quoting you, again)- talks about freaking internet points. Again, you can believe what you want. Just pointing out how grossly hypocritical of you it is when every post of yours I have to try to decipher at least one or two sentences.
I never said you shit on trans people, that's the point. You said "Haha never said anything about shitting on trans people lol." My previous post only had about liberals wanting equal rights for everyone. Where did I accuse you of shitting on trans people? The only thing I see is that you assumed that me saying we want equal rights for everyone was tantamount to accusing you of shitting on trans people. Thus, Freudian slip.
3 hours ago, Thanatos said:Loyalty- to what and whom?
Service to country- Sure. As long as the country is morally sound. I don't subscribe to service to country merely because its my country.
A higher purpose above yourself- Given that you've already stated you don't really care about other people besides your family, this strikes me as rather funny.
Humility- lol. "I'm killing the game." You're the last person to be talking about being humble, bud.
First lets get this out of the way. You said psychology is a science, it isnt. Glad you can admit that
Second, you name all the subsets of it that are derived from actual sciences like I said, neuroscience, biology, and orthopedics. If not for those actual scientific fields, it would be bullshit. psychology on its own is not a science. nor has it ever been. However when you do cross training in something sciency....like neuro science then it gives it legitimacy. But you didnt say that did you? You said psychology.
In your original post you said psychology. You did not mention the subsets that require extra schooling because they are actual sciences. A neuro-psychologist has to go to school for longer because psychology in it of itself is not going to give you some incredible insight into the mind. Psychologists are their to listen and push drugs. Only after I pressed you did you come up with these sections of psychology that are crossed with sciences which proves my point.
No, you literally never laid it out like you just did. Im not lying and dont accuse me of it just because you are asshurt, bud.
Just to reiterate. PSYCHOLOGY BY ITSELF IS NOT A SCIENCE. IT HAS TO BE CROSSED WITH AN ACTUAL SCIENCE BEFORE YOU GET TO CALL IT THAT.
A higher purpose above myself, is my family. Just because I dont care about the rest of you does not mean I have no higher purpose.
And with people like you, you cant be humble. You walk on people who are so humble they wont call you on your bullshit.
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2 hours ago, Thanatos said:Another post from Omerta where he twists my words to make a strawman argument. How unoriginal. And then we get the twofer, where you accuse me of personal insults when you're mudslinging right with the best of them.
I said this country had no far left party. It doesn't. I never said it has no liberals. And every time you talk shit about me changing my position, this is what you're doing 99% of the time. You make shit up that I say and then say "But you changed your position!"
I wasn't saying killing the game referred to internet points at all, let alone them only- there should have definitely been a hyphen in there, my bad. Im aware you were saying "killing the game" as in life. I was pointing out you talk about how good you're doing in life and then talk about "negatron" coming out, like I would care at all about points on a message board.
You're the one who just said something about shitting on trans people, not me. All I said was you get triggered when we liberals want people treated equally. Freudian slip much?
I really could care less if you think I had a mystique or something. I don't know where you got that idea from. Another example of you projecting onto me things I don't believe, I guess. I don't give two shits about your opinion of me. Your moral values are so far opposite from mine that I'd have to question my own stance seriously if you did think highly of me.
Glad to see you agree psychology is perfectly valid so long as it backs up your own beliefs. Classic republicanism right there.
Haha no sweetie, you really just contradict yourself that often. I cant count how many times you have said your not a liberal, and love to tout your record of never having voted for a democrat. Then now all of the sudden you are a liberal. Quote me where I personally attacked you. You cant, because I didnt. The irony in you saying someone twisted words lol
See ladies and gentleman this is what we call misdirection. He could not dsipute my facts of psychology not being a science with anything other than, "I said so." I call him out on it, and then he goes on a long tirade telling me to grow up and personally trying to attack me because he cant prove his point. Then I point out he has contributed nothing to substantiate his claim, and then he keeps on going not supporting it.
Then he makes up an erroneous argument about him not putting a hyphen means he is not getting all hurt about this. Not buying it. You wouldnt be so quick to get personal if you didnt lol.
Quote where I shit on trans people. You cant. Because I didnt. This is another classic Thanatos technique. Say something that isnt true, and try to claim the moral high ground even though it was something that never happened. This is Hillary 101, which is where he got it. I will probably be a Russian asset next.
Yes things like family first, loyalty, service to country and a higher purpose above yourself, humility, all things that I hope dont run counter to you. If they do, its not to late to make a change. And for the record, no bullshit, I do like you.
Ha no, its not valid nor has it ever been. I didnt say it was a science in that post at all. I said it had to be somewhat useful, and that it nailed you down perfectly, it did lol.
Why dont you just admit you were wrong about psychology being a science and be done with it. You have danced around any which way but doing it, is being right that important to you lol ?
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Although they "psychology" have to be somewhat useful because while researching this, I stumbled on an article that nailed you down perfectly.
"Apologies, unlike admissions of wrongdoing, invariably involve the fact that there's an identifiable victim. It’s important to the victim, Lewicki and his collaborators point out, for transgressors to take ownership of the harmful action, even though it might make them seem incompetent or dishonest. This is yet another key reason to admit to wrongdoing — it shows that you respect the people who were affected by your actions. It can be the ultimate expression of egocentrism, or even narcissism, to focus only on your own self-image and how it is harmed by violation of competence or integrity expectations held by others toward you. Instead, by admitting the wrongdoing, you show that you value them as much — or more than — you value your own need to seem infallible."
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Haha never said anything about shitting on trans people lol.
This is hilarious at this point. You can't make a point or refute my original statement so you have to personally insult someone, because your points don't stand alone.
This is pure Thanatos 101. You say I'M not good at debating, but you can't even fucking stick to the topic because your points are that flimsy. I'm glad other people are seeing this, you are killing your own mystique.
Also, you have said before that this country has no liberals, but you just refer to yourself as one. So which is it? Do we or don't we? Or is it nuanced lol?
As for killing the game referring to internet points alone, why do you look at things so black and white? Haha. This is great.
Thanks for the latest episode of " A swing and a miss."
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Hahahahahahahaha you telling me how the world works lol....hahahahahahaha.
Yeah I'm kinda Killin the game, so I'm going to keep doing me. If where I'm at is not growing up, I'm good with it lol.
It's going to be awesome when Negatron comes out to play lol
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Ahhhh, more of you not making a point. Keep playing the game playa. For a guy who fancies himself the smartest guy in the room, you are predictable to the rest of us knave's lol
Is it nuanced or do you just bend things you say to fit your current narrative, even though you contradict yourself lol.
I told you, I have you figured out, you're not surprising anyone lol. Keep trying.
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Yes it CANNOT be a science is my point. You made my point, thanks.
And there is absolutely nothing in my statement that is false, and you know it. You cant point it out and back it up so you just say there is no point.
I have long known you are incapable of admitting your wrong, so it becomes nuanced, or in this case, there is no point. Nothing wrong with your game playa, I just know what you're doing.
I do it better. But hey continue doing you.
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1 minute ago, Thanatos said:You're right this isn't an agree/disagree thing. You're just wrong.
It's not the first time you've gotten something backwards I guess.
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The ACTUAL science of the brain is called neurology. Psychology is pretty much the study of feelings.
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6 hours ago, Thanatos said:I disagree entirely. Psychology is absolutely a science. It is not entirely the same science as, say, biology which is more empirical, but to claim it is not a science at all is misleading at best. Claiming its on the same level as philosophy is simply flat out not true.
Science is generally considered to consist of three things: A) The mindset B) The method C) The overall knowledge
When you are doing science you assume there is no supernatural influence you cannot detect- you have to as a starting point here. Then you use the scientific method to contribute to the overall knowledge we have any given subject. Philosophy fails at A and B and is therefore not a science. Philosophers do not assume no existence of the supernatural. Psychologists do. They also use the scientific method to reach their conclusions.
Where psychology struggles where, say, biology does not, is step C. The human brain is one of the most complex organs in the universe. On a lot of subjects, there is no consensus, unlike biology which has a large consensus on nearly all of the subjects. On whether gender is the same as sex, there is a large majority- though not an overwhelming one- that says no, they are not. You are not going to find very many people to argue that biological sex and gender are the same thing. At least, experts in the field. You'll find plenty of them on the political right and in the Trump administration. But as I said, that's because they find it gross and/or want to strip them of rights.
It's quite funny how republicans are all for limited government until it comes to something they themselves are against.
This is not an agree or disagree as you say.
You can't use the scientific method in psychology. The outcomes vary wildly and the results are not repeatable. One person gets seen by a psychologist and it helps, others won't. It is a guessing game. An educated guess to be sure, but there are no two people who react the exact same way to anything or any treatment. And the the outcomes can't be reproduced. This is the Crux of the scientific method.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/reproducibility-explainer/
The only people who think psychology is a science are people who are trying to win an argument using science, and psychologists. This is a debate that has raged forever and that's the beautiful part. If there is a debate that's how you know it isn't. NOBODY argues biology is not a science, because it clearly is. Psychology and philosophy are just people guessing at how we think, and often wrong.
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Leave Blots out of this.
And yeah. She is desperate, she is just saying crazy shit now to see what hits a cord. She is done, but she will never shut up because she is an entitled piece of shit
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No...men don't use tampons lol.
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4 hours ago, Thanatos said:The scientific stance, you mean. As in, what actually are the facts on the subject at hand.
Look you can disagree with certain shit, for sure. But reality is reality, no matter how much you might wish otherwise, or think those people are icky, or what have you.
Gender is different than sex according to basically all prominent psychological organizations. People who get upset at other people identifying as a different gender are almost always doing so because they are trying to strip trans people of basic rights. Thus why the Trump admin is trying to re-define gender to be based on the sex organs you have at birth. Newsflash: You have almost certainly been in a bathroom with a trans person and didn't know it.
Just as an interjection here, psychology is not a science, and there is no such thing as scientifically trans.
"Unlike “sex”, gender does not have a basis in science, although it is affected by the biological and physiological characteristics we display as “males” and “females”. Instead, gender is based on the societal constructions and belief systems put in place that deal with masculinity and femininity. The gender identity that most people adhere to is usually unconscious, or forced upon us at an early age. We see the concepts of gender in the colors assigned to children (blue for boys, pink for girls), the common length of our hair (men-short, women-long), the toys we play with, the jobs we aspire to, and the behaviors and interests we are “supposed” to embrace."
https://www.scienceabc.com/eyeopeners/what-is-the-difference-between-sex-and-gender.html
Again trans people can do them thing is all well and good. However, let's be honest. All science says is that gender dysphoria is an illness of the mind. It does not scientifically support it as a valid biological state of being.
Psychology is far from a A science. It is as much a science, and arguably as important as philosophy, so you don't get to claim your stance as scientific here.
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1 hour ago, RazorStar said:Going? America has been shit your entire life, man.
Strongly disagree. As long as there is hope of upward mobility and possibly getting wealthy and elevating your offspring to a better starting platform than you had, so they can elevate their children, and you can retire in comfort with the ones you love, their is an American dream.
I don't want to hear how it is dead. I've done it, so it can be done. And to me that's all I can really ask for. My kids are getting great educations, I am a successful business owner, and I have an amazing wife and kids. I have zero complaints.
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It won't surprise anyone here I don't think but did you guys hear about Netflix. Trump and his faithful are so asshurt about jokes, Netflix will let you skip them lol. Is this the new censorship of comedy? God both parties are so fucking pathetic. They are both whiny, lazy, entitled, cry baby pussies. This country is going to the shitter unless we get some strong 3rd party peeps into 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
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6 hours ago, seanbrock said:I'll say it again lol. This whole gender vs sex argument is a genius way to have everyone at each other's throats.
It isn't though. To me there is no argument. A vast majority of the time they are the same thing.
Me and Razor most likely disagree on that but I would hardly say we are at each other's throats.
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49 minutes ago, RazorStar said:1. No, and there isn't a clean answer to that, outside of something like a Trans League for those sorts of things. But then you run into the problem of people treating it like a freakshow, or other ethical and political strife.
2. Also no. I really don't have a clean answer to trans athletes in sports which is something that should be discussed.
3. Gender and Sex are different, and if most traits of gender are socially assigned, then it makes sense that ones gender identity may not always match 100% man, or 100% woman. Naturally, one's gender identity may not match their biological sex.
4. TERF's or FARTs (Feminist Appropriating Reactionary Transphobes) aren't feminists. I mean... not in the technical sense of what feminism is supposed to mean, but we've long since lost the point of what feminism is supposed to mean, just like what being a Good Christian or Good Muslim is supposed to be. It supposed to be about equal rights for all, not equal rights for women. But that's another long story. Point is, a real feminist would fight for trans women's rights all the same.
5. Gender Fluid people would typically like pronouns that work for them. Whether it be They (some people will bitch about grammar, but the english language has always been about beating grammar over the head until it suits our needs), or Xe/ZIm/Zer, whatever. There isn't any sort of one size fits all classification, which probably explains why so many people have issues understanding it, and why there are so many different pronouns out there. Most people you talk to on a daily basis will just give you their preferred pronouns to make it easier. It's kind of like not wanting to be called Matt when your name is Mike.
6. This one requests clarification.
7. Kids at 8 have spent at least four years in a schooling environment, dealing with pseudo people just like them, and have started to develop their traits. I don't think they're at an age to make a conscious decision on whether or not they may be transgendered, but they may be getting to age where they understand that they don't fit the typical mold of a man, or a woman, or whatever. I knew I was a weird outcast by the age of 6 and I had the opportunity to just go out and embrace it and live my best life. Kids are smarter than you give them credit for, they just have difficulty operating on the same playing field as adults due to lack of life experience.
8. No. I think it's unethical and irresponsible to put someone on hormone therapy until they have at least hit puberty, and even then, that's a decision a parent or guardian would have to agree to before allowing that to happen. If they're of age though, they can do what they want to their body.
9. The large part of having suicidal thoughts isn't because someone has gender dysphoria. It's that people with gender dysphoria often feel like outcasts in society, like they have no where they can belong, and if they speak out about their issues, they're ridiculed and targeted. It isn't safe to be transgender in a lot of places, and just because it is socially acceptable in some others, doesn't mean that there isn't going to be a vocal minority saying shit like "I DON'T WANT THAT MAN IN THE LADIES BATHROOM, I HAVE A DAUGHTER!" like all transgender people are sexual predators or some shit. If you're feeling constantly targeted every day of your life, like you're living with a red x painted on your back, wouldn't you entertain running away from it all, if even for a brief moment?
I'm not trans myself, but I have a few trans friends I talk to about stuff. It's one of those things where you need to expose yourself to other people's lives and see what their lives are like. You don't have to agree with their ideals to understand that most people just want to live free. And I know I've been a real shitty person about transgendered people before I got to know some and realize... wait shit, these aren't weird psychopaths. They're just people struggling to live their lives and it was honestly a humbling experience.
We agree
We agree
I kind of sort of disagree with them being different. Is it one hundred percent accurate, not usually. That said most men who identify that way share a lot of similar traits both physically and mentally. So yeah the 40's and 50's defined a lot of the roles, but a lot of it is true. That is why most mechanical fields are male dominated. And most nurturing professions are dominated by women. They are biological imperatives, that have exceptions and we try to paint those as the rule. They are not.
See I can buy that thing about feminists. Either fight for the rights of all women or none, or shut the fuck up. But being a guy they aren't listening to you.
As far as the pronouns, I'm fine with him/her/they for reasons you said. That said what is a Zim and how do you know you are like them. You don't, you just made it up. I don't buy that.
We agree on the rest except why they committ suicide. I can't tell you why they do. What I can tell you is that one study says that a large portion of trans people that are young that are left alone without transitioning or conversion therapy turn out to just be gay men.
So I don't know man, it's just odd and I'm tired of people pretending that this is just all Willy Nilly easy to answer and if it isn't you're a bigot or some nonsensical dumb shit.
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So you're agreeing there are problems in dealing with the trans community and integrating them into everything ?
As to calling them whatever they yeah sure. I'll call them him/her, their name, and so on. After that though if you come at me with some Zim/Zir shit I'll just ignore you and move on. I'm not participating in that dumb shit. We don't need to speak. And let's be real I'm 6'2" and in shape. The only place someone is "calling me out for being an asshole" is on the internet. People are waaaaaay to chicken shit to stand up for themselves much less other.
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1 hour ago, Thanatos said:Not in Indiana it isn't.
What do you mean there are a lot of questionable things about trans people?
Well for starters let's talk sports.
Is it fair a guy can roll off the couch and reset women's power lifting records? Is it fair that a lifelong dude can beat the fuck out of chicks. Is it fair that women's cycling is now being dominated by a man?
Is it really intelligent to say there are no biological advantages kept by men after only 2 years on hormones?
Are we going to pretend that gender fluidity is real?
How far do we let this go? Ironically feminists are speaking out against trans people and calling for a trans exclusionary feminist movement.
Are we going to pretend this Zim/Zer nonsense is a thing?
I mean if you believe in any of this there is no point in a discussion. I am all for living your best life, but some shit is just horseshit and we are made to stay silent.
Are we going to pretend 8 year olds can decide their genders?
Are we really going to change the chemical compositions of their brains ?
Are we going to pretend almost half of people who undergo sexual confirmation surgery regret it, and NEARLY ALL have suicidal ideation.
If you don't think there's questions you're part of the problem.
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We're certainly going to find out about the AFC tonight. The Ravens are damn near fully healthy and have two weeks to prepare, if they don't get it done tonight they can't.
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1 hour ago, seanbrock said:Yeah idk man I think you living in a very liberal area has colored your view on this one. There a lot of places that you still really would not want to be gay in.
Oh yeah, that I will agree with. But things like this always boil down to expectations. Are we expecting zero homophobia? I mean ideally that would be nice, but a lot has changed very quickly. I mean just look at this place. Not even 5 years ago "fegit", "faggot", "queer" were common soubriquet around here. I was on hiatus when you guys had the mean culpa on not saying it anymore, but the rule is there none the less.
There is going to be bad things all the time. Being white in Harlem is not ideal, being blank in Mississippi is probably not ideal, bring straight in Seattle is not cool, being gay in Alabama could be a problem. I don't think this means that you can generalize the US has homophobia, or racist, or any of that other shit as easily as we like to these days.
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It definitely does. I think homophobia is extremely over played.
I think now trans people catch hell and some of them should. There is a lot of questionable things about trans people.
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Yeah I don't think homophobia is as rampant as people would have you believe. I think being gay is a massive benefit these days.
Trump Regime thread.
in Politics, Religion & Science
Posted
Yes I am aware of what a psychologist is.
No, it isnt. if you have to split hairs between empirical and not then it isnt. Either it is one or it isnt. No, when you say psychology, you are referring to psychology. That is how the english language works. All these sub divisions you talked about that are crossed with an actual science, are things you didnt say, and your quote doesnt illustrate it either. If you want to specify those fields as empirical sciences fine, THEN FUCKING SAY IT. We are not your wife, and we dont infer what you mean.
What about god, how is that for a higher purpose ?