Top-35 Rule

[oochymp 2,393]

Top-35 rule unfair and unnecessary

Updated: April 9, 2012, 12:54 PM ET By Terry Blount | ESPN.com

 

Take a quick visit to my fantasy land of make-believe -- the place where the Sprint Cup race at Texas Motor Speedway this Saturday night has no guaranteed spots.

 

That's right. This racing wonderland is a track where you post one of the fastest 43 qualifying laps or it's off with your head -- as in pack up and head off to the next race.

 

Now wouldn't that be a glorious little utopia? A paradise where no one gets a free pass but everyone gets a fair shot. It's a kingdom where the same opportunity applies to royalty such as Dale Earnhardt Jr. and to commoners such as Robert Richardson.

 

That top-35 rule, NASCAR's own little Augusta National for exclusive members, would not exist.

 

"But even Tiger Woods still has to make cut at the Masters," TMS president Eddie Gossage said. "That's the whole point."In my little racing Shangri-la, fans would head to the track for a qualifying session knowing their favorite driver had to earn a spot in the show rather than just show up.Gossage would love to reside in that world."

 

Qualifying really doesn't have tremendous meaning now, and fans know it," Gossage said. "Ending this rule certainly would help sell more tickets on Fridays for the qualifying sessions."

 

Unfortunately, that is not the real world, the one where 35 drivers go to each event knowing they are in the race even if they run their qualifying lap backward at 10 mph.

 

The top-35 rule (guaranteeing a spot to the top 35 cars in team owner points) is a protection device that ensures little danger exists except for those teams not in the top 35.

"The top-35 rule was a good move for us when we put it in place [in 2005], and it has served the sport well," said Kerry Tharp, NASCAR's senior director of communications. "A lot of it was a function of trying to help with new teams that were coming on board and also add another layer of success for teams that have been earning their way."

 

However, Tharp also said NASCAR officials realize that things change and that the rule could be altered in the future.

 

"We know it's a rule that generates a lot of debate, particularly with our fans," Tharp said. "As we do with all of our rules and regulations, we will continue to review it to make sure it's best for the sport.

 

"The intent of the rule is clear, as Gossage points out."I understand NASCAR's intention to give big-name drivers and sponsors some level of protection," Gossage said. "But most fans would tell you what they prefer is open competition, the fastest 43 make the field."

 

Full Article

For anyone unfamiliar with the top-35 rule, if you weren't able to figure it out by context basically the top 35 cars in owners points are guaranteed a spot in the 43 car field and everyone else in the field has to run a good enough time in qualifying to make the field, so last week at Martinsville 46 drivers went into qualifying for the 43 spots in the race. For this calculation, if multiple drivers drive the same car on different weekends their points are pooled, for example Danica Patrick isn't driving every race, so David Reutimann is driving the #10 car on weekends she takes off, their points pool to match up against drivers who race every week for purposes of the top-35 rule.

 

What are y'alls thoughts on this? I think the poll is pretty self explanatory, option 3 is discussed later in the article I quoted and I'm sure there are other alternatives, so I added an 'other' option, but if you take that please explain. Personally I would go with reducing the number of automatic qualifiers and restrict them to the every week drivers, it still allows the assurance to the biggest names but makes qualifying more interesting for a wider section of the field.

 

Also, there's a hilarious line later in the article, just to give you a little incentive to follow the link

Edited April 9, 2012 by oochymp

[Milla4Prez63 678]

The top 35 rule was always bullshit.

 

The old provisional system was fine, NASCAR scratched it because in the fall race at Atlanta in 2004, Scott Wimmer and Scott Riggs DNQ'd with two big sponsors (Caterpillar, Valvoline) and they complained to NASCAR and NASCAR is all about appeasing the corporate sponsors for $$$$$. Ironically, Valvoline bite themselves in the ass with this rule because the very next year they moved along with Riggs to a new team at Evernham Motorsports that had no owner points and they missed the Daytona 500 because of the top 35 rule.

 

If they are going to keep the rule, they need to adjust it. 35 teams being locked in is way too much. Why should someone be rewarded for being the 35th best team out there? Cut it down to at least 30 or so, but I'd like the return of provisional system.

[oochymp 2,393]

The top 35 rule was always bullshit.

 

The old provisional system was fine, NASCAR scratched it because in the fall race at Atlanta in 2004, Scott Wimmer and Scott Riggs DNQ'd with two big sponsors (Caterpillar, Valvoline) and they complained to NASCAR and NASCAR is all about appeasing the corporate sponsors for $$$. Ironically, Valvoline bite themselves in the ass with this rule because the very next year they moved along with Riggs to a new team at Evernham Motorsports that had no owner points and they missed the Daytona 500 because of the top 35 rule.

 

If they are going to keep the rule, they need to adjust it. 35 teams being locked in is way too much. Why should someone be rewarded for being the 35th best team out there? Cut it down to at least 30 or so, but I'd like the return of provisional system.

I'm not familiar with the old provisional system, can you elaborate on that a little?

 

I wouldn't mind seeing them cut it shorter than 30, I'd say top 20 or 25 and base it on driver points to favor the guys driving every week, if you're only going to drive half the races you should have to qualify each time IMO, but that puts competitiveness over sponsorship and I doubt NASCAR would be willing to make that shift

[Milla4Prez63 678]

The provisional system gave teams a certain amount of provisionals to use in qualyifing in case of emergency depending on how many starts they've made and things like that. You almost never saw quality teams DNQ (the fall race at Atlanta in 2004 with Wimmer and Riggs was incredily rare). If you cut a tire or something and crashed, you could fall back on a provisional, but the current system of just locking in the top 35 is lame. Especially now that the economy has claimed so many quality teams, qualyifing is practically worthless. Not to mention how lame it is seeing teams just buy owner points in the offseason. Like with the #10 team. Stewart-Haas tried to buy owner points to lock Danica Patrick into the Daytona 500, so they bought Tommy Baldwin Racing's #36 team's owner points.

 

If it were up to me, I'd give a team (team, not driver) a provisional for every race they win (for the first five they can go back to last year) and there can be a champions' provisional. Mediocrity shouldn't be rewarded but NASCAR is just scared of big sponors not being on the track on Sundays. Changes need to be made though, the current system is outdated.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Milla4Prez63

[oochymp 2,393]

If it were up to me, I'd give a team (team, not driver) a provisional for every race they win (for the first five they can go back to last year) and there can be a champions' provisional. Mediocrity shouldn't be rewarded but NASCAR is just scared of big sponors not being on the track on Sundays. Changes need to be made though, the current system is outdated.

I'm still not entirely clear on this, the provisionals attach to the car? and it's a total over the season, right?

 

The biggest issue to me would be if you end up with somebody who's a chase contender blowing a tire and missing a race, though looking at last year's standings going into the chase there was about a 50 point gap between the last chase driver and the first non chase driver (looking at the WCs separately) so maybe having some of those guys fighting to make the field would make it more interesting

[Milla4Prez63 678]

I'm still not entirely clear on this, the provisionals attach to the car? and it's a total over the season, right?

 

The biggest issue to me would be if you end up with somebody who's a chase contender blowing a tire and missing a race, though looking at last year's standings going into the chase there was about a 50 point gap between the last chase driver and the first non chase driver (looking at the WCs separately) so maybe having some of those guys fighting to make the field would make it more interesting

 

If you're asking about my idea, yeah the provisionals would stick with the team.

 

Provisionals would so rarely be used, that Chase contenders should have one or two to fall back on with wins when they get to the Chase. NASCAR wants to make wins more meaningful, this would help that. But it will never happen, because NASCAR caters to the sponsors.

[oochymp 2,393]

If you're asking about my idea, yeah the provisionals would stick with the team.

 

Provisionals would so rarely be used, that Chase contenders should have one or two to fall back on with wins when they get to the Chase. NASCAR wants to make wins more meaningful, this would help that. But it will never happen, because NASCAR caters to the sponsors.

sorry, I was referring to prior to the chase, regardless of any system put in place I'm sure NASCAR will guarantee chase drivers a spot once the chase actually starts, but it is worth pointing out that last year two drivers (including the eventual winner Tony Stewart) made the chase without winning a single race, which under your system would leave them without any provisionals

 

here's an idea I just came up with, give free passes to the previous year's chase drivers and the current top 12, then once the chase starts you only guarantee entry to the chase drivers, it again gives preference to drivers rather than sponsors, so it wouldn't be adopted, but I'd rather see a benefit go to the full time drivers somehow, it will be interesting to see if NASCAR does adjust this rule (which obviously won't happen mid-season)

[oochymp 2,393]

NASCAR mulls ban of Top-35 rule

Updated: July 26, 2012, 2:15 PM ET By David Newton | ESPN.com

 

 

INDIANAPOLIS -- NASCAR's rule guaranteeing the top 35 teams in the Sprint Cup series a spot in each race may be going away in 2013.

 

Vice president of competition Robin Pemberton said on Thursday that NASCAR is talking to teams about doing away with guaranteed starting spots in the Cup, Nationwide and Truck Series with the hope of putting more emphasis on qualifying.

 

"People want to see it go back to where speed gets you in,'' Pemberton said from the infield at Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

 

Pemberton did not discuss specifics of the new qualifying rules, but sources close to the situation told ESPN.com one plan is to have the top 38 cars get in on speed with one past champions provisional and four provisionals for the top four drivers in points that didn't make it on speed.

I like the exceptions they listed, who knows if that's actually how they plan on doing it, but taking the top four in points who didn't make it on speed would likely eliminate the possibility of a guy missing out on the chase because he missed a qualifier (since most drivers pushing for the chase would more than likely qualify) which should be the biggest concern in altering this rule

[Tridentdawgpound 1,043]

So under that rule a big name driver who wrecks in qualifying wouldn't race?

[oochymp 2,393]

So under that rule a big name driver who wrecks in qualifying wouldn't race?

they'd leave four provisionals for the top four drivers in points who didn't qualify, so unless five big name drivers didn't qualify (six if one is a past champion) they'd still be able to get in, but it wouldn't do as much to protect the mediocre drivers as the current top 35 rule does

[blotsfan 2,112]

It'd be interesting, but isn't NASCAR set up that one missed race basically means you have no shot at the championship?

[oochymp 2,393]

It'd be interesting, but isn't NASCAR set up that one missed race basically means you have no shot at the championship?

it depends on when, you can definitely make the chase under the current set up despite missing a race (or maybe even two) but once you're in the chase it would pretty much be over, but I don't think the owners would agree to any change that wouldn't guarantee chase drivers a spot once the chase starts

[Milla4Prez63 678]

So under that rule a big name driver who wrecks in qualifying wouldn't race?

 

There is provisionals, this is pretty much what they USED to do. Big teams hardly missed the race back when they ran this, and I'm glad they are going back. The top 35 rule is outdated and doesn't serve its' purpose.