Florida Football Teams

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Exactly, with the tarps, the Jags seating capacity is still bigger than 11 other stadiums (including newer ones built in large markets like Seattle, and Detroit.) Pittsburgh is also a newer stadium but I wouldn't call them a large market although it's bigger than Jax.

 

Without the tarps (76,867 seats), the only stadiums bigger than Jacksonville's stadium are Washington, New York, and Dallas. Three of the biggest markets in the league. While market wise, the only teams with a smaller market are Buffalo and New Orleans. Green Bay would be added but they have Milwaukee. NO, BUF, and JAX don't have a big city next to them to help like that. Toronto doesn't count because fans would have to go through customs being in a different country for every game and that's just not feasible.

 

The stadium was built for the Florida-Georgia game. That's two huge fan bases. It was made way too big, the tarp jokes/criticism is ignorant, plain and simple.

 

Jacksonville by far has a more passionate fan base than Tampa and Miami. The attendance records show this as well. Forget the blackouts, because Miami hasn't had any blackouts yet are consistently in the lowest attendance. They have the lowest of all Florida teams — and yet they're the biggest market in Florida. Say what you want about the Jaguars bad front office and they way they've ran the team in recent year, I agree with that, but the fan base has been completely disrespected on a national level when there are a number of fan bases that have been way worse than Jax.

 

Milwaukee is 2 hours from Green Bay and Jacksonville has a population topping Milwaukee and Green Bay COMBINED. The market means very little... Small market teams can succeed. The Jaguars just have one of the most pathetic fan bases in the country... Which is difficult considering you have one of the most populated cities in the state you reside. Jacksonville doesn't have a large city next to it like Green Bay? Maybe because Jacksonville itself is a LARGE city, while Green Bay is tiny in comparison.

 

THAT is ignorance.

 

 

The REAL difference between Green Bay and Jacksonville is that the ENTIRE STATE of Wisconsin is fiercely loyal to the Packers. Meanwhile, the Jaguars struggle to find fans within 500 miles of their stadium. As NBB said before and as I have said countless times...

 

Transplants are your issue, not that you don't have a huge city next to you. Even if Florida's top 2 population cities were next to each other... Jacksonville and _____________. The Jags would STILL struggle. There aren't enough loyal home grown fans down there. Period.

 

Absolutely there are teams under you... I am not sure anyone said you are last... But let's be honest with each other. Only a handful of teams.. Maybe 5 or 6 fill their stadium less than the Jaguars do.

 

Gotta take off the teal shaded glasses and quit making excuses.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

Adding on to what F4E said...it doesn't help having 2 other teams in the same state. Just makes it more difficult for a state as a whole whose fans are questionable to become loyal to one team.

 

Here in Georgia, and South Carolina as well from what I've seen, there is absolute loyalty to the Falcons.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

Milwaukee is 2 hours from Green Bay and Jacksonville has a population topping Milwaukee and Green Bay COMBINED. The market means very little... Small market teams can succeed. The Jaguars just have one of the most pathetic fan bases in the country... Which is difficult considering you have one of the most populated cities in the state you reside. Jacksonville doesn't have a large city next to it like Green Bay? Maybe because Jacksonville itself is a LARGE city, while Green Bay is tiny in comparison.

 

THAT is ignorance.

 

 

The REAL difference between Green Bay and Jacksonville is that the ENTIRE STATE of Wisconsin is fiercely loyal to the Packers. Meanwhile, the Jaguars struggle to find fans within 500 miles of their stadium. As NBB said before and as I have said countless times...

 

Transplants are your issue, not that you don't have a huge city next to you. Even if Florida's top 2 population cities were next to each other... Jacksonville and _____________. The Jags would STILL struggle. There aren't enough loyal home grown fans down there. Period.

 

Absolutely there are teams under you... I am not sure anyone said you are last... But let's be honest with each other. Only a handful of teams.. Maybe 5 or 6 fill their stadium less than the Jaguars do.

 

Gotta take off the teal shaded glasses and quit making excuses.

 

Oh no one said Jags are the worst in attendance? Just type in #Jaguars on twitter and feast your eyes on countless, "Jags to LA" or "I would feel bad for Jags fans, if there actually were any" jokes. Hell, the first post in here is a twitter account acknowledging all the jokes on attendance are about Jacksonville. It's popular opinion. They're jokes, and I actually laugh at them myself because they are funny even though they're technically wrong. But you're kidding yourself if you don't think popular opinion is the Jags sell the least tickets and have the least amount of fan support in their stadium. Tarp jokes, etc. Which is fine, but to say popular opinion is that Miami and Tampa have the worst attendance in the NFL is wrong. Because people think it's Jacksonville.

 

A handful of teams? 5 or 6 teams? Try 10.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance/_/sort/homePct

 

I wouldn't consider 31% of the leagues teams "a handful."

 

Jacksonville is filling 95.1% of it's stadium this year, and that's with a 1-9 team. The Redskins with an exciting young QB in RGIII are only filling 85.7% of their stadium. Miami is only filling a woeful 75.6%. Tampa 82.2%. Minnesota, Cincy, San Diego. All these teams aren't filling their stadiums up as much as Jacksonville and all have better teams. Yet the fans are pathetic? They're not great, and I never said they were. But I did say they're more passionate than Miami and Tampa fans. Because facts show this.

 

Never said transplants aren't an issue. Most certainly that is a big problem. You made an entire paragraph about one tiny part of my post considering not adding Green Bay as a smaller market than Jacksonville. You're right about the Green Bay/Milwaukee stats, that's fine, but then again, how many teams are in Wisconsin for Green Bay to compete with? Green Bay is how old? Jacksonville is how old? Tradition has to be built over time, Jags don't have enough yet to compete like that, especially when there's two other teams in the state to compete with and Atlanta taking up most of Georgia.

 

Lastly, I noticed lots of capitalized words in your post.

 

 

Y U MAD?

 

Edited November 24, 2012 by CampinWithGoatSampson

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Oh no one said Jags are the worst in attendance? Just type in #Jaguars on twitter and feast your eyes on countless, "Jags to LA" or "I would feel bad for Jags fans, if there actually were any" jokes. They're jokes, and I actually laugh at them myself because they are funny even though they're technically wrong. But you're kidding yourself if you don't think popular opinion is the Jags sell the least tickets and have the least amount of fan support in their stadium. Tarp jokes, etc. Which is fine, but to say popular opinion is that Miami and Tampa have the worst attendance in the NFL is wrong. Because people think it's Jacksonville.

 

A handful of teams? 5 or 6 teams? Try 10.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance/_/sort/homePct

 

I wouldn't consider 31% of the leagues teams "a handful."

 

Never said transplants aren't an issue. Most certainly that is a big problem. You made an entire paragraph about one tiny part of my post considering not adding Green Bay as a smaller market than Jacksonville. You're right about the Green Bay/Milwaukee stats, that's fine, but then again, how many teams are in Wisconsin for Green Bay to compete with? Green Bay is how old? Jacksonville is how old? Tradition has to be built over time, Jags don't have enough yet to compete like that, especially when there's two other teams in the state to compete with and Atlanta taking up most of Georgia.

 

I said 5 or 6 teams, you looked it up and said 10.. HUGE difference. Not. Being in the bottom 10 year after year after year just should not be acceptable. Especially when you are the largest city in your state by nearly double the population.

 

"But.. but.. but... We need a big city next to us to help" Nah, you don't. Because you already have the largest city and can't do squat.

 

Absolutely the history of the Packers makes a difference. We've been around a LONG LONG time, no arguing that.

 

What the Jags need is to form a group of extreme loyalists, ready to go to the end of the Earth for them. Maybe you have some now, but that group is far too small and doesn't really appear to be growing.

 

Regardless of attendance numbers, city or market size, etc etc. The Jaguars remain one of those teams that blemish the shield. Probably in the Top 3 franchises Roger Goodell would just completely erase if given the opportunity.

 

The good news... Khan is committed to finding more fans, they just happen to be overseas. Before long, the Jaguars will be a GLOBAL brand! Have fun.

[Bucman 891]

Bucs will sell out games eventually, Glazers are not going to move the team and I don't think they can till like 2020.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

Actually, Goodell was actually one of the guys who selected Jacksonville to be one of the new franchises. He was on the committee for that then. He views them almost as, "his baby" in that way. Same with Carolina.

 

When did I ever say Jacksonville needs a big city next to it to help it? I was talking about market size, and how Jacksonville is the 4th smallest market size. I only brought up neighboring cities for Green Bay, and that's why you went on a tirade it seems. I dared to say Green Bay gets support from Milwaukee. I never once said, "that's why Green Bay has lots of fans, it has Milwaukee." Yet you seem to have taken it that way. Re-read my friend.

 

Also, you obviously don't get that Jacksonville is the biggest city in America by land mass. Which makes population seem like it's a huge city. When in fact it's not. It's completely sprawled out. The entire Duval county is counted as the city of Jacksonville. That means woods and the boon docks, rural areas that aren't even remotely urban. There's no other city like that. That's why it's the biggest city land area wise in the U.S. Which makes it one of least densely populated cities among the big dogs. Which is why it's the 4th smallest market in the NFL. You keep saying, "Jacksonville biggest city in Florida, double the population of Miami/Tampa, etc." Then why is Tampa the 13th biggest market, and Miami the 16th biggest market, while Jacksonville is the 47th biggest market in America?

 

1. New York Giants/New York Jets

3. Chicago Bears

4. Philadelphia Eagles

5. Dallas Cowboys

6. San Francisco 49ers/Oakland Raiders

7. New England Patriots

8. Atlanta Falcons

9. Washington Redskins

10. Houston Texans

11. Detroit Lions

12. Arizona Cardinals

13. Tampa Bay Buccaneers

14. Seattle Seahawks

15. Minnesota Vikings

16. Miami Dolphins

17. Cleveland Browns

18. Denver Broncos

21. St. Louis Rams

23. Pittsburgh Steelers

24. Carolina Panthers

25. Indianapolis Colts

26. Baltimore Ravens

28. San Diego Chargers

29. Tennessee Titans

31. Kansas City Chiefs

34. Cincinnati Bengals

47. Jacksonville Jaguars

51. Buffalo Bills

53. New Orleans Saints

70. Green Bay Packers

 

 

Also notice, all my posts are backed by facts. You're just spouting perceptions. Just being real...

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

The good news... Khan is committed to finding more fans, they just happen to be overseas. Before long, the Jaguars will be a GLOBAL brand! Have fun.

 

Also notice the indirect disses being tossed out. This is how people without knowledge of the topic at hand argue.

 

Khan is actually reaching out to Savannah, GA, Orlando, Tallahassee, Gainesville and surrounding markets around Jacksonville to build the fan base. Players and ex-players like Fred Taylor went around to these cities in Caravans and held events, autograph signings, Tony Boselli spoke, as well as players, etc. To get out there and interact with fans and make new ones. It actually boosted Jacksonville's ticket sales this year even though the team has gotten worse. He's not just looking for fans in the UK and overseas, he's looking for them everywhere.

 

But yes, let's make fun of a smart businessman covering all bases. Lets capitalize words and be condescending, that always wins the argument.

 

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Actually, Goodell was actually one of the guys who selected Jacksonville to be one of the new franchises. He was on the committee for that then. He views them almost as, "his baby" in that way. Same with Carolina.

 

When did I ever say Jacksonville needs a big city next to it to help it? I was talking about market size, and how Jacksonville is the 4th smallest market size. I only brought up neighboring cities for Green Bay, and that's why you went on a tirade it seems. I dared to say Green Bay gets support from Milwaukee. I never once said, "that's why Green Bay has lots of fans, it has Milwaukee." Yet you seem to have taken it that way. Re-read my friend.

 

Also, you obviously don't get that Jacksonville is the biggest city in America by land mass. Which makes population seem like it's a huge city. When in fact it's not. It's completely sprawled out. The entire Duval county is counted as the city of Jacksonville. That means woods and the boon docks, rural areas that aren't even remotely urban. There's no other city like that. That's why it's the biggest city land area wise in the U.S. Which makes it one of least densely populated cities among the big dogs. Which is why it's the 4th smallest market in the NFL. You keep saying, "Jacksonville biggest city in Florida, double the population of Miami/Tampa, etc." Then why is Tampa the 13th biggest market, and Miami the 16th biggest market, while Jacksonville is the 47th biggest market in America?

 

 

 

Also notice, all my posts are backed by facts. You're just spouting perceptions. Just being real...

 

Can't be backed by most fact because you claimed the Packers "don't count" as small market because of a city smaller than Jacksonville being two hours away, yet you post a list that indeed has us as the leagues smallest market. Just like we should be.

 

And you would be wise to stop putting words in my mouth.

 

I never once said, "that's why Green Bay has lots of fans, it has Milwaukee." Yet you seem to have taken it that way. Re-read my friend.

 

I've never claimed that... Yet you want to think I have to try and pretend that you have a point. You don't... And indeed, should go back and re-read my friend.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

Can't be backed by most fact because you claimed the Packers "don't count" as small market because of a city smaller than Jacksonville being two hours away, yet you post a list that indeed has us as the leagues smallest market. Just like we should be.

 

And you would be wise to stop putting words in my mouth.

 

 

 

I've never claimed that... Yet you want to think I have to try and pretend that you have a point. You don't... And indeed, should go back and re-read my friend.

 

I honestly don't think you comprehended what I said. Did I ever say the Packers don't count as a small market team? No. I said if we added the Milwaukee market to Green Bay it'd be bigger than Jacksonville. I never said Green Bay doesn't count as a small market team. Yet you're saying I did, and then contradicted myself by posting evidence that Green Bay is the smallest market. Well yeah, Green Bay is the smallest market, I knew that and I never said it wasn't, I said if you add Milwaukee it would be bigger than Jacksonville. That's all I was saying. Again, this isn't about population, it's about market size. Market size, not population, because population is misleading as I've stated.

 

And yes, I do have a point, I'm pointing out numbers, facts, market sizes, attendance numbers, fan support. This is how you make points, evidence. I'm bringing evidence to the table. Yet you're acting like I'm saying Jacksonville needs a big city next to it to compete, even though I never once said that either. Never said Green Bay wasn't a small market either, again you're saying I did. Another blatant lie. Who's really putting words in the others mouth here?

 

All you're doing is getting butt hurt about me saying Milwaukee supports Green Bay. Which is a fact too by the way. There's no ulterior motive behind that statement, just a fact. Yet you took it as me saying Green Bay isn't a small market. Why you mad bruh? Why you mad?

 

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I honestly don't think you comprehended what I said. Did I ever say the Packers don't count as a small market team? No. I said if we added the Milwaukee market to Green Bay it'd be bigger than Jacksonville. I never said Green Bay doesn't count as a small market team. Yet you're saying I did, and then contradicted myself by posting evidence that Green Bay is the smallest market. Well yeah, Green Bay is the smallest market, I knew that and I never said it wasn't, I said if you add Milwaukee it would be bigger than Jacksonville. That's all I was saying. Again, this isn't about population, it's about market size. Market size, not population, because population is misleading as I've stated.

 

And yes, I do have a point, I'm pointing out numbers, facts, market sizes, attendance numbers, fan support. This is how you make points, evidence. I'm bringing evidence to the table. Yet you're acting like I'm saying Jacksonville needs a big city next to it to compete, even though I never once said that either. Never said Green Bay wasn't a small market either, again you're saying I did. Another blatant lie. Who's really putting words in the others mouth here?

 

All you're doing is getting butt hurt about me saying Milwaukee supports Green Bay. Which is a fact too by the way. There's no ulterior motive behind that statement, just a fact. Yet you took it as me saying Green Bay isn't a small market. Why you mad bruh? Why you mad?

 

 

 

Why would you add Milwaukee to the Green Bay market? If Milwaukee had a pro NFL team.. maybe. But that has absolutely no bearing on anything at all.

 

I think... we should add Miami and Tampa to the Jacksonville market. Just because. No reason. Of course, only using your own logic here. If that fails.. Let's just add the Houston market to New Orleans, and Toronto to Buffalo and then the Jags can be alllll alone as the leagues smallest market. How goofy is that?! lol

 

You absolutely posted attendance numbers... Numbers that prove my point. You're in the bottom what.. 10?! That's not good. You should strive for better than that. And I give full credit to Ron Jeremy Khan. He has made sure to try and grow the brand that is the Jacksonville Jaguars. No diss intended.

 

He's done a fine job doing just that, and let's be honest... It certainly isn't an easy task. How do you convince fans that live next door to the stadium that don't go to your games, don't buy your merchandise, and just generally don't care about your existence to all of a sudden start caring or believing?

 

Not an easy task, but I am also not going to sugar coat. I realize that the Jaguars haven't had a whole lot to celebrate about the last few years here, and maybe being in the Bottom 10 and having to tarp off what...? 1/8 of your seats isn't exactly seen as a positive amongst the general public.

 

And that's probably for good reason. If you want to throw a party for being in the bottom 10. Have at it. Most of us strive for more than that, and I think your own ownership does as well... Otherwise he wouldn't be working as diligently as he is to grow.

 

Ron Jeremy Khan isn't satisfied, why are you?!

Edited November 24, 2012 by Favre4Ever

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

You do know the Packers played portions and at times half of their schedule in Milwaukee from 1933-1994 right? That's 61 years. Again, when did I ever say we should add Milwaukee to Green Bay? I said "if we added Milwaukee to Green Bay it'd be bigger than Jacksonville." It was merely to point out how small the Jacksonville market actually is. It was a very innocuous point, and had no large bearing on my argument about Jacksonville fan support or anything about a city needing to help Jacksonville and that's why they're 22nd in attendance. It was comparing markets on a large scale. You're just being silly and condescending with your adding HOU/NO markets statement. Keep getting more hysterical.

 

How do the numbers prove your point? You said the Jags were in the bottom 5 or 6. When in fact they're 11th (I like how you keep saying bottom 10 too when they're 11th, lets round down to make it look worse, good job.)

 

*cue F4E replying with another juvenile, "OOOOHHHH HUGE DIFFERENCE. NOT!"*

 

The whole point was that most people consider the Jags one of the worst teams in attendance, and yet they're better than 31% of the league. Is that great? No, is that horrible? No. Especially considering they're the 4th smallest market. Where am I throwing a party? Where am I saying I'm satisfied? Again, I'm not. I'm pointing out the misconception that Jacksonville is the worst in attendance and fan support. That's all I'm doing. You're making it out like I'm saying the Jags are doing great, when I'm saying they're not the worst, and much better than Tampa and Miami.

 

I'm not asking anyone to sugar coat anything, and there's nothing to be proud of having the 22nd best attendance in the NFL. But considering that's for a 1-9 team and you have Tampa with the 31st best attendance yet they're a bonafide playoff contender that's actually pretty decent considering everything. Anything to bang your drum about? No, and I never said it was. The Jags are striving better, Khan has already called the tarps embarrassing, but that's because he has sky high hopes. He's set the bar as high as saying the ticket to a Jax game should be the hottest ticket in the NFL. Pretty unrealistic, but that's what you like to hear from the big guy running things.

 

Also considering Jacksonville is getting outscored by 200 points at home with what is quite possibly the worst performance by a team at home in NFL history, 22nd is not that bad at all. It's a miracle these guys still show up when everything is telling them not to.

Edited November 24, 2012 by CampinWithGoatSampson

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

You are arguing nothing but semantics. You should worry less about trying to upstage me (novel cause of you, really), and more about what you set forth to do in the first place.My goal is not to quote your posts, try my hardest to make you look ignorant and a fool. I feel compelled not to put you on display for others to mock or ridicule. No, that's not the point I drive home, or is it the goal of this thread, or the forum.

 

Back ON point, and speaking of...

 

Your point, presumably, is to speak for the underrated and oft criticized fan base of the Jaguars. You haven't helped their cause with your statistics that put them in the bottom 10 in overall attendance. You don't help them by proving that the team is trying desperately to improve the outreach of the organization.

 

And you certainly don't help them with your quotes from the owner that prove the opposite of what you are trying so desperately to convince everyone here of.

 

The tarps are embarrassing. The lack of passion and loyalty not only from the surrounding area but around the country is frightening. Hence such a positive and forward-moving expansion plan from your new owner.

 

Is the light at the end of the tunnel growing brighter? Quite possibly. However, for now, the Jaguars faithful shall remain stuck in the muck and mire of a city whose football team has been assembled half-heartily and leaves in its wake, many more questions than answers.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Favre4Ever

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

Dude, you're the one who first started calling me ignorant in capital letters. Go back and read. I only fired back because you were patronizing as hell in your first post. But yes, lets drop all that non-sense. Not trying to upstage you honestly (I jokingly said that in the Shoutbox in which you replied, "I never lose" so we're both joking obviously about the whole one up-manship.)

 

On topic, I think putting up the attendance stats does help my point. Because it was to point out the Jags aren't the worst in attendance and are better than 31% of the league. You were saying how companies bought out Jags tickets and that's the only reason they've avoided blackouts (Miami is by the far the biggest culprit of this evident by their attendance numbers and not having any blackouts.) That only happened in 2011, Weaver's last year. In 2009 when Jax had the blackouts there were no company bailouts. Same with years before. You made it seem like Jax has been doing it for years like Miami has.

 

Not to mention, the passion is there, how else do you explain them filling up 95.1% of the stadium even when the team is 1-9? When the team is consistently blown out by 20+ points at home each game? Look at Miami, Tampa, Washington, San Deigo, Minnesota, St. Louis, Oakland, Kansas City, Cleveland, Minnesota, Cincinnati. Other than KC, all have better teams— and all of them are older storied franchises yet are doing worse in attendance. Yet rarely are their fan bases lambasted like Jacksonvilles.

 

The owners quotes don't prove a lack of passion, it proves he doesn't like seeing tarps and would like to make more money by taking them off and selling the seats. It looks bad outside of people in the know of the situation, so that's why he says it's embarrassing. It has nothing to do with the passion of the fan base. But it does have to do with the size of the fan base. The stadium without tarps is huge, way too big for Jacksonville. Why else have newer stadiums built in Houston, Denver, Cleveland, Baltimore, Philly, New England, Seattle, Tampa, Cincinnati, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, and Arizona built with less seats than Jacksonville yet are far bigger markets? Look at that list of cities for a minute. All those newer stadiums were built with less capacity than Jacksonville yet dwarf them in market size. The stadium is way too big. Yet we're just going to ignore that and act like Jacksonville lacks passion, that's why there's tarps. The problem is they grossly overestimated their market size in regards to stadium size.

 

You refuse to acknowledge me and Vin's posts about the size of the stadium with/without tarps. Any realistic person can see with the 4th smallest market it's insane to expect a 17 year old franchise to sell out the 4th biggest stadium in the league. You'd need a huge tradition to keep that going. Only now are kids growing up as Jags fans. Before fans in the area had to switch allegiances because they were likely Atlanta/Tampa/Miami/Other fans before. The only reason it happened for most of the 90s was because the team was fresh and the team was in the playoffs every year except it's expansion year and reached the AFC Championship twice. When teams are good there's always bandwagon fans that boost their numbers, die hards are the real size. There's not enough die hards in Jacksonville for their stadium size yet. There never was. Gaining die hard fans takes decades. It's entirely too soon to think Jacksonville is a failed experiment. Especially when evidence shows more fans are showing up every year since 2009.

 

You call the passion of the fan base frightening. Yet attendance has gone up every year since hitting rock bottom after the economic recession in 2009. The arrows pointing up, not down, even though the teams performance has gotten worse.

Edited November 24, 2012 by CampinWithGoatSampson