Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Wattafan

Straight Up - Who is the best QB in this class?

Who will be the most likely to succeed?  

27 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will be the most likely to succeed?

    • Johnny Manziel
      2
    • Theodore Bridgewater
      11
    • Blake Bortles
      4
    • Derek Carr
      2
    • Jimmy Garoppolo
      0
    • A.J.McCarron
      2
    • Aaron Murray
      3
    • Zack Mettenberger
      0
    • Tom Savage
      0
    • David Fales
      1
    • Jeff Mathews
      2
    • Garret Gilbert
      0


Recommended Posts

He throws so... erect that it hurts.

 



"He will bend the knee, or I will destroy him"

 

My official outlook on Manziel as a pro-level QB.

Yes, it's common for me to use Game of Thrones to scout QBs.

Edited by Favre4Ever

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not just yet lol.

 

 

 

 

Wait, what?

 

So you agree Bridgewater is the more accurate QB but then say he has an accuracy problem. So if you mean by his mechanics he's losing out on some accuracy... being he's already a more accurate passer than McCarron if his mechanics were cleaned up would he not be even more accurate than McCarron?

I said he was more accurate by the NUMBERS however Bridgewater's completions heavily benefited from big receivers who could go up and fight for the ball meaning that on the stats he completes passes, but on film his accuracy is questionable (especially on the deep passes). Overall he tends to let the ball come out with a high trajectory due in part to his funky throwing mechanics. I think the numbers lie very much in this category,and at best he is highly inconsistent with his accuracy because I do believe he can put the ball on the money. AJ's problem comes from a long delivery that stems from bad set-up mechanics that you pointed out. The analyzing speed and decision-making is there, AJ just needs to get his technique squared away. In the same token Bridgewater just needs to clean his technique up and he could be delivering much more impressive passes. This is what I meant by having a QB with an accuracy problem...his actual passes aren't on the money just more in the area of the receiver. If you want to disagree he could be that accurate and still lean so much on his receivers then look at Johnny Football who had a higher career completion % and we ALL know his receivers constantly bailed him out.

 

 

So you can see into the future and you know McCarron will see a lot more blitzes than natural pressure in the NFL? If McCarron proves he can hurt you when you blitz teams will stop blitzing him then just rely on their natural pressure just like they do with a lot of other NFL QBs.

 

It's not seeing into the future....it's the simple fact that there are very few teams in the NFL who are creating pressure with their front four. Unless I'm mistaken please name me all these teams that aren't relying on exotic blitzes and blitz packages to create pressure? Pass rusher is still high in demand by EVERY team and that will never change because it is EXTREMELY difficult to build a defensive line who can go get the QB consistently by themselves. Giants had the closest thing to that (and maybe Detroit was there last year) but I would say most of the time teams are relying on blitz to gain pressure or they pray for coverage sacks.

 

So Bridgewater runs a pro-like system but not to the extent that McCarron was? I know what I watched and they were very similar run heavy offenses with lots of play action to play off it. The classic NFL style offense. So because McCarron wasn't extending the play as much as Bridgewater when things broke down and instead took a sack or threw it away his offense was more Pro style? That's silly, you know better than that. The only thing I can think of is Louisville seemed to run more play action roll outs because they could utilize Bridgewater's legs to put pressure on coverage which could then open up receivers for easy completions. I don't see how that's a knock... that sounds like an advantage to me. Because Bridgewater can do both, he's not a scrambling/running QB. He's a pocket passer first and foremost.

 

Louisville ran a pro-spread hybrid utilizing a good mix of pistol formations. Bridgewater had a number option-mesh play-actions as well as standard under center play-actions. If you watched any of the running back's highlights you will see they definitely had some spread-concepts in their running game. Alabama has ran a one-back offense since Saban got there utlizing multiple 22, 21, 12, and 13 personnel formations. AJ was constantly under center and seen defensive alignments that match up with what he will see on the next level. Moving outside the pocket and things like that have nothing to do with why I made that statement. And the fact is AJ likes to break the pocket often and throw sideline routes. Bridgewater's hybrid offense gives him an advantage over some of these QBs, but the system was not close to what AJ has experience running.

 

Now I believe we might just have to agree to disagree :yep:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The obvious answer is Aaron Murray. Cuz he will be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Teddy's deep ball sucks. Its mostly due to what I believe to be shaky footwork (on deep throws) causing it to sail, which is usually because he's actually going through his progressions. But outside of that there are no glaring issues. I'd say his deep ball is better then any QB mostly talked about not named Carr.

 

McCarron's offense was by no means so much more of a "pro style" offense to where it would be viewed as an advantage over TB.

Edited by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't like Fales. He will Fale in the NFL

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me it has to be Bridgewater. He was the consensus #1 most NFL ready QB for the majority of the college season, and then wham bam, he has a poor pro day and suddenly we are talking about him sliding into the second round as the 4th QB taken? Not buying it.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reality is Bridgewater is looking at the second round as of today. From the beginning I said his throwing mechanics and his throws are just very weird looking and I never really understand why it takes the NFL people so long to see it. Pro day or not people have been talking about Bridgewater's ability to lead the team, and why I don't believe every QB needs to be a rah rah vocal leader, these teams have very high and specific expectations of a first round QB.

 

Another reality is that none of these QBs should be a first round pick and to talk about who is the best is very much a conversation about who gets into the best situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another point I want to make about all this first round QB stuff is that there haven't been many "Elite Prospects" in the draft in recent history. All I hear about this year and last year is how there are no "elite" players or these guys don't grade out as a first round QB and blah blah.

 

I want to know who is a first round QB?? Because Luck came in and played well (led the league in INT) now everyone expects the sky from a first round QB when in reality there aren't many worthy of the current expectations in the league. And the ones who are worthy are always passed over for a stupid reason and poor evaluation.

 

In the league now there are only a number of QBs who were high first round picks and considered "Top Tier"

 

-Peyton Manning

-Andrew Luck

-Phillip Rivers

-Ben Roethlisberger

 

Now we can look at the other first round picks who have some question marks next to them.

 

-Aaron Rodgers (Late first round pick, but he didn't come in and play. His unique situation having the chance to sit and learn is not an opportunity any QB will get these days)

 

-Cam Newton (Not sure he is a consensus top tier QB and will need to finally have weapons to show his true limits)

 

-Matt Ryan (Trouble in the playoffs always cause people to rank him outside of the top 15)

 

-Sam Bradford (Potential, but injury-prone and hasn't won much)

 

-Matt Stafford (Big numbers, low wins, I think he is on the fence of top tier and just really good)

 

-Jay Cutler (I'm a Bears fan and won't even argue this)

 

-Joe Flacco (Late first round pick, Superbowl, I'll listen to the arguement for him)

 

Point being we only have FOUR QBs who are in the top tier coming out of being high first round picks. And only eleven all together who you can even consider as top 15. Translation....a good number of top QBs come from later rounds, situations where they have had time to develop, or went into a nice system for them. This talk of "elite prospects" at QB is just silly because if you are lucky every three years you have ONE guy who is worthy of a first round pick.

Edited by butta55
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He isn't a height/weight/arm guy, its starting to spread around the twitter world that NFL teams have never been high on him. It was all media hype and us armchair "scouts".

 

I'm still sold on him as the best QB in this class. And is still a top 5, top 10 pick in my eyes.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another point I want to make about all this first round QB stuff is that there haven't been many "Elite Prospects" in the draft in recent history. All I hear about this year and last year is how there are no "elite" players or these guys don't grade out as a first round QB and blah blah.

 

I want to know who is a first round QB?? Because Luck came in and played well (led the league in INT) no everyone expects the sky from a first round QB when in reality there aren't many worthy of the current expectations in the league. And the ones who are worthy are always passed over for a stupid reason and poor evaluation.

 

In the league now there are only a number of QBs who were high first round picks and considered "Top Tier"

 

-Peyton Manning

-Andrew Luck

-Phillip Rivers

-Ben Roethlisberger

 

Now we can look at the other first round picks who have some question marks next to them.

 

-Aaron Rodgers (Late first round pick, but he didn't come in and play. His unique situation having the chance to sit and learn is not an opportunity any QB will get these days)

 

-Cam Newton (Not sure he is a consensus top tier QB and will need to finally have weapons to show his true limits)

 

-Matt Ryan (Trouble in the playoffs always cause people to rank him outside of the top 15)

 

-Sam Bradford (Potential, but injury-prone and hasn't won much)

 

-Matt Stafford (Big numbers, low wins, I think he is on the fence of top tier and just really good)

 

-Jay Cutler (I'm a Bears fan and won't even argue this)

 

-Joe Flacco (Late first round pick, Superbowl, I'll listen to the arguement for him)

 

Point being we only have FOUR QBs who are in the top tier coming out of being high first round picks. And only eleven all together who you can even consider as top 15. Translation....a good number of top QBs come from later rounds, situations where they have had time to develop, or went into a nice system for them. This talk of "elite prospects" at QB is just silly because if you are lucky every three years you have ONE guy who is worthy of a first round pick.

Absolutely agree.

The silly argument I sometimes see over on the Texans board is that it ain't worth taking a QB because they are not "locks" at QB.

I argue with them saying how long are you gonna wait to take one?

And even if a "lock" QB came along, if you are not the #1 pick, and the team at #1 needs a QB, then you are gonna wait another three or more years for another opportunity.

I am a believer in the right system for the QB - you can't fit a square peg in a round hole and don't throw him off the deep end if he ain't ready or if you have a bad line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He isn't a height/weight/arm guy, its starting to spread around the twitter world that NFL teams have never been high on him. It was all media hype and us armchair "scouts".

 

I'm still sold on him as the best QB in this class. And is still a top 5, top 10 pick in my eyes.

I like to believe that the actually evaluators having the discussions at team facilities knew all along the flaws, pros, and cons of all these prospects and whenever stock goes up and down it's really just media hype because NFL teams know talent. But, the truth is we will never really know unless we work for these teams.

 

With that being said I believe NFL teams had him as a first round talent all along, but the interviews and his personality turned them off not his pro day.

 

A top 5-10 pick you are saying he comes in today and starts. In the driver seat as a franchise QB and risk everyone's job. Do you really feel Bridgewater could step in and be the face of these teams picking 1-10?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

He isn't a height/weight/arm guy, its starting to spread around the twitter world that NFL teams have never been high on him. It was all media hype and us armchair "scouts".

 

I'm still sold on him as the best QB in this class. And is still a top 5, top 10 pick in my eyes.

I like to believe that the actually evaluators having the discussions at team facilities knew all along the flaws, pros, and cons of all these prospects and whenever stock goes up and down it's really just media hype because NFL teams know talent. But, the truth is we will never really know unless we work for these teams.

 

With that being said I believe NFL teams had him as a first round talent all along, but the interviews and his personality turned them off not his pro day.

 

A top 5-10 pick you are saying he comes in today and starts. In the driver seat as a franchise QB and risk everyone's job. Do you really feel Bridgewater could step in and be the face of these teams picking 1-10?

 

Yes.

But you don't throw him in the deep end. Let him hold a clipboard for a while until he assimilates the system and the team, etc. Rogers sat behind Farve for 3 years? You would have to say it worked.

Having said that, you don't waste a top 10 pick on a prospect that has to sit for a year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

He isn't a height/weight/arm guy, its starting to spread around the twitter world that NFL teams have never been high on him. It was all media hype and us armchair "scouts".

 

I'm still sold on him as the best QB in this class. And is still a top 5, top 10 pick in my eyes.

I like to believe that the actually evaluators having the discussions at team facilities knew all along the flaws, pros, and cons of all these prospects and whenever stock goes up and down it's really just media hype because NFL teams know talent. But, the truth is we will never really know unless we work for these teams.

 

With that being said I believe NFL teams had him as a first round talent all along, but the interviews and his personality turned them off not his pro day.

 

A top 5-10 pick you are saying he comes in today and starts. In the driver seat as a franchise QB and risk everyone's job. Do you really feel Bridgewater could step in and be the face of these teams picking 1-10?

 

 

Yes. Comparing his "film" to Luck's "film" and I see nothing that sets them apart outside of release point and a more conventional throwing motion.

 

Outside of that, I see no other areas where Luck outshines Teddy. Luck was viewed as one of the best QB prospects to ever come out of college, having the prototypical frame is an obvious big plus that makes him a better prospect to Teddy, but that at least makes Bridgewater in my eyes a top 5, 10 pick.

Edited by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the field wise I would say the big difference is how much control Luck had in a directly translatable NFL pro-style offense. Bridgewater had some pre-snap responsibilities, but it was not to the extent that Luck had. Even so, coming into his rookie year Luck's control over the offense had to be steadily raised throughout the season. And this past season his playbook grew noticably as he became more comfortable after a rookie year. So I could only imagine that it would take a organization even longer to bring Bridgewater along who is no dummy, but really doesn't have the type of "QB-mind" that Luck had coming out.

 

Off the field you had your all-american clean cut golden boy QB who everyone was ready to follow. I haven't met, interviewed, or seen Bridgewater around his teammates, but the sense you get when you see him talk and interact is very underwhelming at least in my opinion.

 

And I whole-heartedly believe the conversation about Bridgewater is about his ability to be the "face" they want him to be, not his pro day or throwing mechanics. And I tend to agree that if you don't want the pressure or financial obligation that comes with a top 10 QB then you rank him lower and bring him in as a value who can then shine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the field wise I would say the big difference is how much control Luck had in a directly translatable NFL pro-style offense. Bridgewater had some pre-snap responsibilities, but it was not to the extent that Luck had. Even so, coming into his rookie year Luck's control over the offense had to be steadily raised throughout the season. And this past season his playbook grew noticably as he became more comfortable after a rookie year. So I could only imagine that it would take a organization even longer to bring Bridgewater along who is no dummy, but really doesn't have the type of "QB-mind" that Luck had coming out.

 

Bridgewater has received all kinds of praise for his intelligence, plus the offense he ran in college was one where he was consistently making adjustments on the fly, not his coaches from the sideline.

 

Off the field you had your all-american clean cut golden boy QB who everyone was ready to follow. I haven't met, interviewed, or seen Bridgewater around his teammates, but the sense you get when you see him talk and interact is very underwhelming at least in my opinion.

 

His teammates talk about how he demands the huddle, he's an on field coach (and the coaches agree). What does how outgoing he may be have to do with his play- or leadership on the field?

And I whole-heartedly believe the conversation about Bridgewater is about his ability to be the "face" they want him to be, not his pro day or throwing mechanics. And I tend to agree that if you don't want the pressure or financial obligation that comes with a top 10 QB then you rank him lower and bring him in as a value who can then shine.

 

That's fair. But its also drafting a guy for all the wrong reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10168018_10152202447796263_4808573352785

 

If this isn't posturing or "smoke"... I would fire Kyle Shanahan on the spot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On the field wise I would say the big difference is how much control Luck had in a directly translatable NFL pro-style offense. Bridgewater had some pre-snap responsibilities, but it was not to the extent that Luck had. Even so, coming into his rookie year Luck's control over the offense had to be steadily raised throughout the season. And this past season his playbook grew noticably as he became more comfortable after a rookie year. So I could only imagine that it would take a organization even longer to bring Bridgewater along who is no dummy, but really doesn't have the type of "QB-mind" that Luck had coming out.

 

Bridgewater has received all kinds of praise for his intelligence, plus the offense he ran in college was one where he was consistently making adjustments on the fly, not his coaches from the sideline.

 

Off the field you had your all-american clean cut golden boy QB who everyone was ready to follow. I haven't met, interviewed, or seen Bridgewater around his teammates, but the sense you get when you see him talk and interact is very underwhelming at least in my opinion.

 

His teammates talk about how he demands the huddle, he's an on field coach (and the coaches agree). What does how outgoing he may be have to do with his play- or leadership on the field?

And I whole-heartedly believe the conversation about Bridgewater is about his ability to be the "face" they want him to be, not his pro day or throwing mechanics. And I tend to agree that if you don't want the pressure or financial obligation that comes with a top 10 QB then you rank him lower and bring him in as a value who can then shine.

 

That's fair. But its also drafting a guy for all the wrong reasons.

 

-He had a low wonderlic score is one of the hot bottons too. I could care less about that test, but I'm not the one making draft picks. We all know the draft is a long over-analysis process and stupid things get considered and this will be one of them. He ran an offense where he didn't change routes. He had multiple concepts and options routes based on coverage, but it was the receivers job to adjust, but still impressive. He didn't change protections and in a up tempo offense there are only a handful and the center usually calls them. And he had a good number of one-read plays. Again he isn't dumb, but he didn't have the responsibility that Luck had. Luck was a engineering major at Stanford.....science just tells you the brain processes faster with that much stimulation.

 

-Again I've never been around the guy, and I agree with you being an extrovert has nothing to do with leadership, however the common perception is that it has EVERYTHING to do with leadership. Loud and vocal, big personality, and enthusiasm are all considered to the public eye to be leadership traits. And to be honest dating waaaay back being tall was believed to be a trait of a leader and we know how they like QBs with height so take that as you want. I'm not making the decisions otherwise I would care less about HOW he says and does things, but WHAT he actually says and does.

 

-I agree with you 100% most of the things these GMs do is for the wrong reason. Talking about Bridgewater and his potential fall is nothing about why I feel he should go here or there. I'm just talking about the reality of his situation in the eyes of the teams picking and what they have complained about. Personally I don't see a top 20 pick in any QB this year, but maybe not for the same reasons these NFL teams are dropping his stock

Edited by butta55

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-He had a low wonderlic score is one of the hot bottons too. I could care less about that test, but I'm not the one making draft picks. We all know the draft is a long over-analysis process and stupid things get considered and this will be one of them. He ran an offense where he didn't change routes. He had multiple concepts and options routes based on coverage, but it was the receivers job to adjust, but still impressive. He didn't change protections and in a up tempo offense there are only a handful and the center usually calls them. And he had a good number of one-read plays. Again he isn't dumb, but he didn't have the responsibility that Luck had. Luck was a engineering major at Stanford.....science just tells you the brain processes faster with that much stimulation.

 

 

-Again I've never been around the guy, and I agree with you being an extrovert has nothing to do with leadership, however the common perception is that it has EVERYTHING to do with leadership. Loud and vocal, big personality, and enthusiasm are all considered to the public eye to be leadership traits. And to be honest dating waaaay back being tall was believed to be a trait of a leader and we know how they like QBs with height so take that as you want. I'm not making the decisions otherwise I would care less about HOW he says and does things, but WHAT he actually says and does.

 

-I agree with you 100% most of the things these GMs do is for the wrong reason. Talking about Bridgewater and his potential fall is nothing about why I feel he should go here or there. I'm just talking about the reality of his situation in the eyes of the teams picking and what they have complained about. Personally I don't see a top 20 pick in any QB this year, but maybe not for the same reasons these NFL teams are dropping his stock

 

 

I'm like 95% sure Dmac was saying in his eyes Bridgewater is the top QB and he should be a top 10 pick, this post seems like you think he was saying he WILL be a top 10 pick and drafted high in the draft in real life/actuality. He never said that though. :shrug:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^Yea, pretty much. And as far as offense that was ran in college, literally everything Luck did TB has had to do.

 

This can be seen by watching a good portion of his pre snap cut ups on youtube, or by looking at the many people who touched on the subject.

 

 

 

At Louisville, Watson installed the same pro-style West Coast offense. While other college quarterbacks are looking to the sideline for their on-field adjustments, Bridgewater does it all by himself.

 

 

 

Bridgewater has vast responsibility at the line of scrimmage. First there is the kill system. Two or three plays are called in the huddle. Depending on the defense, Bridgewater has the ability to “kill” the first play, and run one of the others. It’s solely Bridgewater’s decision.

 

 

 

ridgewater also has an audible system at his disposal, with the same goal as every good NFL system: stay out of bad plays. If the play Watson has called has little chance of success against a particular defense, Bridgewater can change the play entirely at the line of scrimmage.

 

Finally, Bridgewater redirects the offensive line protections by either identifying the middle linebacker in man-to-man protections, or directing the slide one way or the other in zone.

 

You’d be hard-pressed to find many, if any, college quarterbacks that are asked to do that much, especially at 21 years old and in a completely full-field read progression system. Most of the recent top drafted quarterbacks, like E.J. Manuel, Geno Smith and Robert Griffin III, came from systems that called for quarterbacks to only read half or a quarter of the field. Bridgewater has the ability to direct the ball to any part of the field on every snap.

 

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/01/02/teddy-bridgewater-2014-nfl-draft/

 

 

 

Bridgewater rates off the charts in this area, according to scouts and colleagues that I've spoken with in recent weeks. He routinely walks to the line with two or three play calls at his disposal in the Cardinals' "check with me" system (the quarterback will change the play or the direction of the play call based on the defensive alignment)

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000260626/article/film-room-breaking-down-louisville-qb-teddy-bridgewater

 

He is every bit as adept in the pro game as Luck was coming in.

Edited by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bridgewater falling would be / is going to be criminal. Somebody is going to come away with a steal outside of the Top 5.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^Yea, pretty much. And as far as offense that was ran in college, literally everything Luck did TB has had to do.

 

This can be seen by watching a good portion of his pre snap cut ups on youtube, or by looking at the many people who touched on the subject.

 

 

 

At Louisville, Watson installed the same pro-style West Coast offense. While other college quarterbacks are looking to the sideline for their on-field adjustments, Bridgewater does it all by himself.

 

 

 

Bridgewater has vast responsibility at the line of scrimmage. First there is the kill system. Two or three plays are called in the huddle. Depending on the defense, Bridgewater has the ability to “kill” the first play, and run one of the others. It’s solely Bridgewater’s decision.

 

 

 

ridgewater also has an audible system at his disposal, with the same goal as every good NFL system: stay out of bad plays. If the play Watson has called has little chance of success against a particular defense, Bridgewater can change the play entirely at the line of scrimmage.

 

Finally, Bridgewater redirects the offensive line protections by either identifying the middle linebacker in man-to-man protections, or directing the slide one way or the other in zone.

 

You’d be hard-pressed to find many, if any, college quarterbacks that are asked to do that much, especially at 21 years old and in a completely full-field read progression system. Most of the recent top drafted quarterbacks, like E.J. Manuel, Geno Smith and Robert Griffin III, came from systems that called for quarterbacks to only read half or a quarter of the field. Bridgewater has the ability to direct the ball to any part of the field on every snap.

 

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/01/02/teddy-bridgewater-2014-nfl-draft/

 

 

 

Bridgewater rates off the charts in this area, according to scouts and colleagues that I've spoken with in recent weeks. He routinely walks to the line with two or three play calls at his disposal in the Cardinals' "check with me" system (the quarterback will change the play or the direction of the play call based on the defensive alignment)

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000260626/article/film-room-breaking-down-louisville-qb-teddy-bridgewater

 

He is every bit as adept in the pro game as Luck was coming in.

It's probably another time I'll have to agree to disagree. With drafts some people like players more than others and you are a Bridgewater guy. I'm not so convinced on him as a leader and while I believe he has a pretty high floor as far as QB IQ, I'm not willing to say it was on Luck's level. On the surface it sounds good, but in the game that offense felt alot like a up-tempo hybrid between pro-style and spread. Again everyone has their opinions.

Edited by butta55

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×