seanbrock 1,684 Posted July 19, 2015 A lot of people are going to point to the fact that CP3 hasn't won many playoffs series too, but CP3 is statistically better in the playoffs than in the regular season so I don't think you can put that on him. If I'm starting a team I would CP3 over all those guys because he's a great two way player. He runs the point the way it's supposed to be run and like DMac was saying his basketball IQ makes everyone on the floor better. He's got that Jordan/Kobe bulldog mentality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bangy 19 Posted July 19, 2015 Yea I feel the top 3 are interchangeable to be honest. I'd probably have it Curry, Westbrook then Paul but can totally see DMac's side to this. Curry imo has the best alround game. He can score from anywhere on the court be it 3's/long 2's or dribble drive and offensively that variety gives him many more options with what he can do. He is also no slouch defensively and will find ways for his team to score points via himself or a team mate. He also makes a lot better shot decisions as well. Opens the game for his team. Westbrook literally put the Thunder on his back this year and there isn't a better driving point guard in the league right now, last year he threw up too many shots I feel but he was put in the situation where he really didn't have much choice. I also love his transition game after a steal or turnover and his intensity is second to non which the Thunder need. I feel with Paul, he has sacrificed his scoring to get others going more often in the Clippers. From what I've seen he is also out of the three the least sound on defensive. What also effects Paul's cause is that he isn't the driving force of the team where the other two were last year. In regards to Rose, if you are basing it off just last year then yea I see him just outside the top 10. He wasn't consistent enough and again suffered knee injuries. If he can over come them and bounce back next year then he would definitely be back in the conversation but based off last year I don't think you can include Rose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milla4Prez63 678 Posted July 19, 2015 I may be one of the few on D-mac's side, give me CP3 over Westbrook every day of the week. Curry is up in the air though, depends on what kind of system you run I suppose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Phailadelphia Posted July 19, 2015 A lot of people are going to point to the fact that CP3 hasn't won many playoffs series too, but CP3 is statistically better in the playoffs than in the regular season so I don't think you can put that on him. If I'm starting a team I would CP3 over all those guys because he's a great two way player. He runs the point the way it's supposed to be run and like DMac was saying his basketball IQ makes everyone on the floor better. He's got that Jordan/Kobe bulldog mentality. "Bulldog mentality" probably isn't a great argument to make when comparing anyone to Westbrook. I don't think anyone in the league is on his level. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BwareDWare94 723 Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) "Bulldog mentality" probably isn't a great argument to make when comparing anyone to Westbrook. I don't think anyone in the league is on his level. You might be right but the bulldog mentality coupled with much greater efficiency as a player is what separates Paul and Westbrook. Russ is a chucker and will probably be one throughout his career. For the record, I think Steph Curry has surpassed Paul. The ability to drop 10-12 points in no time is incredible, and his steady all-around improvement in his career has turned him into the single most deadly player in the league. Edited July 19, 2015 by BwareDWare94 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted July 19, 2015 Yea I feel the top 3 are interchangeable to be honest. I'd probably have it Curry, Westbrook then Paul but can totally see DMac's side to this. Curry imo has the best alround game. He can score from anywhere on the court be it 3's/long 2's or dribble drive and offensively that variety gives him many more options with what he can do. He is also no slouch defensively and will find ways for his team to score points via himself or a team mate. He also makes a lot better shot decisions as well. Opens the game for his team. Westbrook literally put the Thunder on his back this year and there isn't a better driving point guard in the league right now, last year he threw up too many shots I feel but he was put in the situation where he really didn't have much choice. I also love his transition game after a steal or turnover and his intensity is second to non which the Thunder need. I feel with Paul, he has sacrificed his scoring to get others going more often in the Clippers. From what I've seen he is also out of the three the least sound on defensive. What also effects Paul's cause is that he isn't the driving force of the team where the other two were last year. In regards to Rose, if you are basing it off just last year then yea I see him just outside the top 10. He wasn't consistent enough and again suffered knee injuries. If he can over come them and bounce back next year then he would definitely be back in the conversation but based off last year I don't think you can include Rose. I'm never going to say someone's opinion is flat out wrong, but... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JetsFan4Life 542 Posted July 19, 2015 You might be right but the bulldog mentality coupled with much greater efficiency as a player is what separates Paul and Westbrook. Russ is a chucker and will probably be one throughout his career. For the record, I think Steph Curry has surpassed Paul. The ability to drop 10-12 points in no time is incredible, and his steady all-around improvement in his career has turned him into the single most deadly player in the league. Westbrook had a higher Player Efficiency Rating than Paul last year so I'm not sure where you get the idea that Paul is a more efficient player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BwareDWare94 723 Posted July 19, 2015 Westbrook had a higher Player Efficiency Rating than Paul last year so I'm not sure where you get the idea that Paul is a more efficient player. I get that by watching both players. Sometimes PER lies. Russ almost always misses 15+ shots in a game, if not 20+. Chris Paul is the distributor Russ isn't. Chris Paul is a better defender than Russ is. Chris Paul is a better floor general, by far. Russ is a 2 guard playing the 1 spot. That's what he has always been. The only reason Russ had his run of triple doubles is because he dominated the ball without either Durant or Ibaka to take any of that pressure away. He's a great player, but he's not better than Chris Paul. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JetsFan4Life 542 Posted July 19, 2015 I get that by watching both players. Sometimes PER lies. Russ almost always misses 15+ shots in a game, if not 20+. Chris Paul is the distributor Russ isn't. Chris Paul is a better defender than Russ is. Chris Paul is a better floor general, by far. Russ is a 2 guard playing the 1 spot. That's what he has always been. The only reason Russ had his run of triple doubles is because he dominated the ball without either Durant or Ibaka to take any of that pressure away. He's a great player, but he's not better than Chris Paul. I'm not going to argue that Westbrook is a better distributor than Paul because I don't think he is but look at who Paul has to dish it to compared to Westbrook... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Phailadelphia Posted July 19, 2015 I'm not going to argue that Westbrook is a better distributor than Paul because I don't think he is but look at who Paul has to dish it to compared to Westbrook... Yep. It wasn't some sort of fluke that he regularly dished out 12+ assists after the team acquired some more offensive talent midway thru the season, and that was without KD or Ibaka. I don't think the "Westbrook isn't a good passer" criticism is valid anymore. He's become quite an incredible passer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Westbrook had a higher Player Efficiency Rating than Paul last year so I'm not sure where you get the idea that Paul is a more efficient player. One of player efficiency rating's biggest flaw is that it (unintentionally) punishes players who take less shots, and at the same time rewards players who take more shots and makes them at even a decent rate. There is also a high correlation b/w usage and PER. It's a better indicator of the many ways a player contributes in terms of box score numbers per possession then an actual indicator of a player's total efficiency, or even how those numbers a player accumulates adds up to wins/losses. CP3 is the more efficient scorer, more efficient passer, and by far in general a better passer. This is why despite having a far higher PER, Westbrook's value added is lower, estimated win shares is lower, and total win shares, offensive win shares, and overall offensive ratings are far worse. Chris Paul is the most loved player by stats nerd (to the point where it causes them and sometimes me to overrate him to some) like Hollinger because of his all time efficiency. Edited July 19, 2015 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BwareDWare94 723 Posted July 21, 2015 How many of Russ's assists came after nearly dribbling out the shot clock and realizing he was going to be double or triple teamed so he threw it to an open player? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) How many of Russ's assists came after nearly dribbling out the shot clock and realizing he was going to be double or triple teamed so he threw it to an open player? You are not even watching the Thunder if you think Westbrook's game hasn't completely evolved from 4 years ago. Westbrook was destroying with the PnR once Kanter showed up. The team was missing Ibaka and Durant and yet he was still averaging like 12 assists. EDIT: Some things that were being thrown around in the Shout Box: Sarge+ : Westbrook averaged 12 assists per game even when Durant and Ibaka were out? Zack_of_Steel+ : Yeah, Sarge, Ibaka went down on 3/11, check out Westbrook's gamelog: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westbru01/gamelog/2015/ Zack_of_Steel+ : Also, Kanter's first game in OKC was 2/21, which coincided with a large increase in Westbrook's assists. Zack_of_Steel+ : Having a post presence is a godsend for a PG, something OKC has never had until now. Compare that to Paul, who has had Griffen and DeAndre. Edited July 21, 2015 by Zack_of_Steel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
