2017 TGP NFL Mock Draft Discussion

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

BC I'm pulling up if you're moving up to grab my guy.

[Cherry 1,302]

With the 19th pick the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select, Dalvin Cook, HB, FSU

 

 

Dmac doing Dmac shit

Edited March 21, 2017 by Chernobyl426

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I got a reputation to uphold. Lol.

 

I'm also curious for which sweepstake goes first b.w. corners and running backs.

Edited March 21, 2017 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[Thanatos 2,847]

I don't think the O-line class is bad, persay, but I don't think there are any slam dunk top-15 picks like there are usually.

[Cherry 1,302]

I don't think the O-line class is bad, persay, but I don't think there are any slam dunk top-15 picks like there are usually.

 

There are, but a lot of people are trying to BS about measurables. I love a lot of obscure guys, but I'd be comfortable taking Cam Robinson, Forrest Lamp, and Dan Feeney in the top 15 without even thinking it over. Love Elflein in a similar manner. O-line isn't a sexy pick that early, but there are some very good options in the trenches.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

There are, but a lot of people are trying to BS about measurables. I love a lot of obscure guys, but I'd be comfortable taking Cam Robinson, Forrest Lamp, and Dan Feeney in the top 15 without even thinking it over. Love Elflein in a similar manner. O-line isn't a sexy pick that early, but there are some very good options in the trenches.

I don't even know if you believe what you're saying. You moved up with the Bengals to take a guy your team doesn't need when you do need pretty much every other defensive position ( Corner, De, LB ), and need oline help too.

 

Maybe that's just you liking the "obscure" guys... but I still don't get taking a good player that doesn't have a spot on your team compared to a "slam dunk" for need and value at another position.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Favre4Ever

[Cherry 1,302]

I don't even know if you believe what you're saying. You moved up with the Bengals to take a guy don't even need when you do need pretty. Itch every other defensive position ( Corner, De, LB ) and need oline help too.

Maybe that's just you liking the "obscure" guys... but I still don't get taking a good player that doesn't have a spot on your team compared to a "slam dunk" for need and value at another position.

 

You don't think I believe what I'm saying? Come on, Favre. I'm an arrogant ass when it comes to the guys I like, and I'm not afraid to make bold moves when I need to for players that I love. See: Sidney Jones.

 

The Bengals spent a first round on Cedric Ogbuehi the other year, and Jake Fisher was a second rounder. They also signed Andre Smith back to fill a hole if need be. I feel pretty confident that the Bengals would succeed with that line, although I do plan to address it later on now that I missed out on the John Ross sweepstakes. If you're referring to my move for Malik Hooker, it was a move that was necessary for the Bengals, and much like I trust you with the analysis of your team, I would hope you trust me with my analysis of the Bengals. Josh Shaw/Derron Smith/Shawn Williams is not a good combination to be running as your second safety. Iloka is a natural SS, and would do much better to be converted back there. Reggie Nelson leaving left a HUGE hole in the Bengals system. They need a rangy guy who can make plays all over the field.

 

Malik Hooker is a legitimate reincarnation of Ed Reed from what I've seen so far, and the dude has some RARE physical skills. He's incredibly smart in his coverages, and is nearly impossible to beat over the top. While he isn't the soundest tackler, I have enough faith in his overall game to move up a few spots to take him in a class that I honestly don't know enough about outside of the top few guys. I haven't done the safety grades yet, and intend to get to those in the near future. That said, I'd rather move up into the top 5 to get a shot at Malik Hooker or Jamal Adams rather than get stuck at #9 and have no pick that is valued as highly at that portion of the draft. If I got stuck in that situation, I'd probably have taken Ross or Dan Feeney, but I honestly don't know. I'd probably have tried to trade as quick as possible to get myself to a better draft slot.

 

Malik Hooker is an immediate star in the Bengals defense IMO, and much more of a need than a lot of those other positions you listed. Corner isn't great, but it's pretty much locked up for now. Kirkpatrick just got a huge contract, and Pacman is still on the roster. Below that you have Darqueze Dennard and William Jackson III (I love both of them BTW) as your #3 and #4 cornerbacks. It's a very good group, and I'm not going to take Sidney there so he can sit and wait in the most crowded secondary in the league.

 

Defensive end. That's funny. I actually considered staying there and taking DeMarcus Walker, but the value doesn't match up with what I have him graded as and where I'd be taking him, relative to what most draft pundits think of him. He's viewed generally as a day two guy. I also don't believe the Bengals have a glaring need at defensive end. They still have Carlos Dunlap and Michael Johnson, who are two very solid starters. I could see depth being added later, but it's not something I'd want to throw into so early, especially when my top guy is lower than a lot of the other edge guys available.

 

Linebacker I considered, and I really would have looked into Haason Reddick as well in that position. However, they just signed Kevin Minter the other day before we started this, so I think he's going to slot in as the starter immediately, and as much as I love Reddick, I'd prefer him at Mike over anything else. I'll definitely look into drafting some guys to play outside though, as the draft progresses. I know there are several guys who play OLB that I'd like to get, especially since so many are considered day two or day three prospects.

 

OL is tricky, because as I addressed earlier you have Ogbuehi and and Fisher. You've still got Andre Smith and Eric Winston on the roster. I think Clint Boling is the only guy who is really cemented as a starter, as ironic as that is. I'd be comfortable taking a later round guy to compete outside, but I don't want to overpursue early, especially since my board has the top four tackles as guys who are projected as day three or worse in most eyes. I'd be an absolute buffoon to take Avery Gennesy or Roderick Johnson #9, so I'll pass. And I'd be stupid to take a guy like Garett Bolles there even though he is way down on my board in terms of actual talent. Guard was intriguing across from Boling, because I would like to get another guy to compete with Christian Westerman. I just don't know if I'd be willing to pull the trigger so early, especially when you consider the fact I was a fan of Westerman last year. He was a day two guy in most media eyes, and a lot of people saw him as an immediate starter. Obviously, he went fifth round in the real draft, but he has some serious talent that could turn him into a starter. That leaves center, which I'm still looking to upgrade because I'm not exactly sold on Russell Bodine. The center class isn't considered deep by most people who are involved with the draft, so that's why I'm not pulling the trigger on a guy I like in the top 10, as much as I may like him.

 

TL;DR: I have an all-pro grade on Malik Hooker. I have pro bowler grades on everyone else I was looking into. Hooker was also a HUGE need.

 

If I still had the #5 pick with the Rams, I would have taken Dan Feeney, no questions asked.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Chernobyl426

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Shawn Williams is signed through 2020 and making decent money. He's not going anywhere. They wanted Illoka and Williams to be their safety tandem... and that's what they got. I don't see that changing yet. In their minds, it's probably one of their strongest positions.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Cam Robinson is the best offensive line prospect in this class imo. Trading up to take anyone but him isn't worth it, imo.

[Cherry 1,302]

Shawn Williams is signed through 2020 and making decent money. He's not going anywhere. They wanted Illoka and Williams to be their safety tandem... and that's what they got. I don't see that changing yet. In their minds, it's probably one of their strongest positions.

 

Shawn Williams is a very solid piece to bring in to impact the run game, but he's not a great coverage guy, and doesn't do as well in the SS role as Iloka did. If you want to utilize Williams in the nickel, he could be very effective, but I feel much safer with him playing in the box than I do with him deep and Iloka in an unnatural position. Malik Hooker brings twice the range that Reggie Nelson had, and while he's not as impactful in the run game, he's going to make up for it as a playmaker in coverage.

 

You can't tell me if a team believes they could get the next Ed Reed, that they would pass because they have Shawn Williams. Come on, Furve.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Chernobyl426

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

You're kinda putting words into my mouth, but sure I guess that's what I'm saying. With so many positions of need, I don't think they pull the trigger on giving up more picks in order to take a position they aren't worried about.

 

If Williams was like 32 with a year left on his contract... sure, pull the trigger. But he isn't even in his prime yet. Lol.

 

Bengals have way too much to worry about.

 

Failure.

[Cherry 1,302]

You're kinda putting words into my mouth, but sure I guess that's what I'm saying. With so many positions of need, I don't think they pull the trigger on giving up more picks in order to take a position they aren't worried about.

 

If Williams was like 32 with a year left on his contract... sure, pull the trigger. But he isn't even in his prime yet. Lol.

 

Bengals have way too much to worry about.

 

Failure.

 

Am I? You can't tell me that based on what I view as positional needs and how my draft board stacks up that I'm making an error with selecting Malik Hooker. I don't have CB as a need like you do. I don't have DE as a need like you do, outside of some depth. I don't have LB as a need like you do, outside of an OLB I can snag up in the third round. I'd like to add O-line, but none of the guys I really like are even close to being drafted at #9. If I sit there at #9 I either have to trade for a lackluster deal (cause nobody wants to trade up really), or take a guy that I do not want to take that early. It's John Ross at #9 or Malik Hooker at #5. Give me Malik Hooker at #5, because I like my options down the line at WR.

[seanbrock 1,684]

I don't get trashing the Ross pick. He saw value and moved up to get a guy who on Day 1 adds a lot to your offense. Rosa is the kind of guy who even if you don't need him he makes you instantly better.

 

As for the picks DMAC and BC made, they're very solid. I think Davin Coom to TB would be crazy. Regardless of how you feel about Bolles as a prospect fortifying the trenches on the offensive line is something Seattle really needs to do. Not sure if i'd have traded up to do it but I get it for sure.

 

As for Lawson, I think he and Ansah could raise hell. Everyone is doing a pretty damn good job.

Edited March 21, 2017 by seanbrock

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

Am I? You can't tell me that based on what I view as positional needs and how my draft board stacks up that I'm making an error with selecting Malik Hooker. I don't have CB as a need like you do. I don't have DE as a need like you do, outside of some depth. I don't have LB as a need like you do, outside of an OLB I can snag up in the third round. I'd like to add O-line, but none of the guys I really like are even close to being drafted at #9. If I sit there at #9 I either have to trade for a lackluster deal (cause nobody wants to trade up really), or take a guy that I do not want to take that early. It's John Ross at #9 or Malik Hooker at #5. Give me Malik Hooker at #5, because I like my options down the line at WR.

Bengals don't have needs on the edge and at corner ?!? Lmao . Cherry, put down that good ish bro.

[Cherry 1,302]

Bengals don't have needs on the edge and at corner ?!? Lmao . Cherry, put down that good ish bro.

 

You want to talk about Shawn Williams contract but Kirkpatrick just inked a 5/55 or some shit, right? Locked in at CB. Pacman locked in as well. Dennard and WJ3 are first round picks bro. What am I gonna do? Take Sidney #9 and put another first round CB into that feeding frenzy? Let Dennard and WJ3 develop. You're the one who think that CB group has no talent.

 

Carlos Dunlap has one side locked down. I'm content to run Michael Johnson/Wallace Gilberry on the other side. That's the same group they've had for the past half decade.

[Thanatos 2,847]

I don't agree with the Ross pick because I think Ross is not first round talent. He has speed, but he has become incredibly overvalued because he broke the 40 record.

 

He's a deep threat only, a Ted Ginn with better hands at best- WR3 skills. Worth a mid-to-late second or early third round pick, yes. Not a top-20 and certainly not a top-10 guy.

 

I would have taken him if he was still there at my pick in the second round- assuming no one else jumped off the page- but I think I would be overvaluing him by quite a bit. I just know he wouldn't last till the end of the second and Carolina needs a speedy deep threat.

 

Also:

 

Carolina is looking to trade up.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Thanatos

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

You want to talk about Shawn Williams contract but Kirkpatrick just inked a 5/55 or some shit, right? Locked in at CB. Pacman locked in as well. Dennard and WJ3 are first round picks bro. What am I gonna do? Take Sidney #9 and put another first round CB into that feeding frenzy? Let Dennard and WJ3 develop. You're the one who think that CB group has no talent.

 

Carlos Dunlap has one side locked down. I'm content to run Michael Johnson/Wallace Gilberry on the other side. That's the same group they've had for the past half decade.

I never said CB had to be taken in the first. I was simply spelling out needs. Benwikere (sp fail) is poo and signed to a one year deal, Dennard is onthe last year of his deal, Adam is almost 40. The Bengals are potentially a year away from big big problems.

 

If we are just ranking needs , LBs and DL are definitely higher than CB, for sure.

[Cherry 1,302]

I never said CB had to be taken in the first. I was simply spelling out needs. Benwikere (sp fail) is poo and signed to a one year deal, Dennard is onthe last year of his deal, Adam is almost 40. The Bengals are potentially a year away from big big problems.

 

If we are just ranking needs , LBs and DL are definitely higher than CB, for sure.

 

Pacman isn't great, but he's still a solid CB that most teams would like on their roster. Dennard hasn't been given much chance to actually play, but when he gets his time I have faith in him. WJ3 obviously was hurt. Benwikere isn't great, but the upside there makes him a solid depth guy. If I like a CB later on in the draft, don't worry, I'll make a move, but I'm not overshooting for something that isn't a need.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

Pacman isn't great, but he's still a solid CB that most teams would like on their roster. Dennard hasn't been given much chance to actually play, but when he gets his time I have faith in him. WJ3 obviously was hurt. Benwikere isn't great, but the upside there makes him a solid depth guy. If I like a CB later on in the draft, don't worry, I'll make a move, but I'm not overshooting for something that isn't a need.

But you did overshoot for something that isn't a need -- you drafted Hooker. Edited March 21, 2017 by Favre4Ever

[Cherry 1,302]

But you did overshoot for something that isn't a need -- you drafted Hooker.

 

Hey look, we think different things are a need for the team I'm using.

 

 

 

I accurately guessed the market. Weapon was gonna take Hooker #6 (he actually told me this), and I would assume Oochy was gonna take Adams/Lattimore #5. Either way, Adams and Hooker are not falling past Dmac at #7. Therefore I'm left at #9 with no good trade partners, nobody at safety I like, DeMarcus Walker, John Ross, and a missed opportunity.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I wonder if how far the Packers are going to trade up to draft a replacement for Clinton-Dix.

[Cherry 1,302]

I wonder if how far the Packers are going to trade up to draft a replacement for Clinton-Dix.

 

Comparing Clinton-Dix to Shawn fucking Williams is a joke and you know it.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

Comparing Clinton-Dix to Shawn fucking Williams is a joke and you know it.

You're right. Clinton-Dix only has one year left and a team option. Not signed long term like Shawn Williams is.

[Cherry 1,302]

You're right. Clinton-Dix only has one year left and a team option. Not signed long term like Shawn Williams is.

 

Clinton-Dix is vastly superior to Shawn Williams. It's not even close.

Also, I don't give a fuck what garbage ass decisions Mike Brown wants to make in terms of retaining Shawn Williams. He's on a 4/20 deal. That's not bad at all, and if I have the opportunity to draft a guy who is going to be great, I would take Shawn Williams out behind the shed and shoot him.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Chernobyl426

[Cherry 1,302]

Here, I'll propose this Favre. I don't move up for Hooker. I sit at #9. Who should I take and why?

Edited March 21, 2017 by Chernobyl426