RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 1, 2019 56. Tommy Kramer (Minnesota Vikings 1977-1989, New Orleans Saints 1990) 6th Place Vikings QB Career Record 56-57-0 (49.56%) 69th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 35-17-0 (67.31%) 90th out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 21-40-0 (34.43%) 21st out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 52/113 (46.02%) 75th out of 102 (+19) Wins above Average in a 16 Game Season (0.375) Let's talk about Two Minute Tommy for a little bit here. Maybe this entire writeup will take two minutes to read, who knows? Kramer was drafted to be the successor to Fran Tarkenton, and those are some might shoes to fill for anyone to take. After all, the Vikings went to 3 super bowls during his time there (and another in a 3 year hiatus in between when he with the Giants). Kramer, for all of his late game heroics, never quite filled those shoes. He led the Vikings to many victories, but the era of the Vikings had passed, and the legendary purple people eater defense had gone extinct. Kramer has one of the best records in games where the defense didn't come out to play, but threw a ton of costly interceptions when his defense did come out, which meant he ended up being a liability sometimes. As such, the Vikings of the late 70's and 80's were a perennial .500 team, occasionally making the playoffs in his time there, but falling out early when they did. When Bud Grant left in 1983, so too did many of Kramer's opportunities were dashed by injuries. His best shot at a championship bid came in 1987, where an 8-7 record was good enough to sneak into a wildcard position. The problem was, he didn't get to finish his wild-card game that year, forced out of the game after suffering a stinger. His backup, Wade Wilson went on a tear that postseason, crushing the Saints in the wild-card 44-10, and upsetting the Joe Montana 49ers 36-24, before bowing out in the NFC Championship game to the stingy Redskins. He never played a full season again, and in 1990 ending up retiring as the Saints backup QB. Kramer had a flair for the dramatic, but never met with any real postseason success. The Vikings were never a terrible team in his time, but they were never considered contenders either. And that's probably why you struggle to name the guy who started most of the games for their team in the 80's. He ends up being sandwiched between a near dynasty, and one of the greatest offenses we have ever seen. He does end up slightly outperforming his defense, but he's not any wunderkind. Also of note, he ends up being the 6th ranked guy on his team, which kind of shows the legacy of QB's who spent at least some time on the Vikings squad. Though he may simply be a footnote in the history of the NFL, his play on the field stood out to anyone who watched him play. For good or for ill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 2, 2019 55. Dave Krieg (Seattle Seahawks 1980-1991, Kansas City Chiefs 1992-1993, Detroit Lions 1994, Arizona Cardinals 1995, Chicago Bears 1996, Tennessee Titans/Oilers 1997-1998) 3rd Place Seahawks QB and 5th Place Chiefs QB Career Record 102-84-0 (54.84%) 42nd out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 80-27-0 (74.77%) 62nd out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 22-57-0 (27.85%) 52nd out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 107/186 (57.53%) 28th out of 102 (-27) Wins above Average in a 16 Game Season (0.379) We end our little streak of 80's quarterbacks with one Dave Krieg. You may be wondering who Krieg is, considering his claim to fame was being Derrick Thomas' whipping boy, getting sacked 7 times in a single game. But Krieg's career is far more than that performance (and the Seahawks won that game anyway). Krieg's career was long, albeit not as noteworthy as other Seahawk QBs. He didn't get to the super bowl like Wilson or Hasselbeck, and he wasn't there from the very beginning like Jim Zorn, but Krieg had a role to play in Seahawks history regardless. Krieg struggled to take the starting spot from Zorn early on, but by 1983 his consistent play had won him the job over Zorn, and gave him the reins for the rest of the 80's. Combined with hall of fame WR Steve Largent and a pro bowl running back in Curt Warner, the Seahawks were perennial contenders in the AFC West. They made the playoffs 4 times in Krieg's stint there, but with the retirement of Largent in the late 80's and the combination of injuries to Warner, the dream team for the Seahawks did not last very long. Krieg did well with great weapons, but without them he was merely average. The Seahawks decided to move on from Krieg in 1991 but didn't find a QB in the 90's to replace him, as neither the Dan McGwire nor the Rick Mirer experiments worked as planned. Krieg went to Kansas City in 1992, but an early playoff exit to the Chargers and a rare opportunity for the Chiefs to grab Joe Montana meant that Krieg was relegated to a backup role for the 1993 season. Though he did a few starts in spot duty, Krieg moved on from the Chiefs at the end of the 93 season, and started to float around for other teams. He played for the Lions in 1994, and took them to the postseason, but once again, under performed in the most important game and took a L to the Packers. He spent a year in Arizona but did nothing of note with no one of note, and a year in Chicago doing much of the same before heading to Tennessee to windup his career as a third string QB. Krieg's career was certainly long, but his best chances at postseason success were squandered by his own inability. Krieg has had some of the better defenses out of the guys on this list, and his lack of real postseason success is a real black mark on what could have been an exemplary career. His performances are merely average compared to his peers and despite having a long career in the 80's, his name is often forgotten about when mentioning players of the era. The Seahawks had grown from being a mere expansion team to an actual contender under his play, but he was the never the sort of player who could get them over the hump. It is telling how he was able to take over for so many different teams and take the starting role, but the NFL is a top heavy business, and only the championship matters to a lot of fans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 11, 2019 54. Matthew Stafford (Detroit Lions 2009-Current) 1st Place Lions QB Career Record 60-67-0 (47.24%) 77th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 38-15-0 (71.70%) 74th out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 22-52-0 (29.73%) 40th out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 53/127 (41.73%) 88th out of 102 (+34) Wins above Average in a 16 Game Season (0.412) (0.169 after 2018 season) It's time for another active QB to finally make the list, and we're going with the main who dragged the Lions from being terrible, to being fringe playoff contenders. Well I say that, but they still haven't won a playoff game under Stafford's tenure, so it's more like they just make the postseason every now and again. The Lions were notoriously terrible going into Stafford's rookie year, the 08 Lions were the first team to go 0-16 in league history (a feat replicated by the Browns just 9 years later). So the Lions needed many pieces to rebuild, and they started with a franchise QB, going after the Georgia product Stafford. He went to the same high school as Bobby Layne, the same man who cursed the Lions to 50 years of being terrible. So it's neat how all of these things come full circle. Stafford is certainly the best Lions QB of the modern era, but early in his career you may have just wrote him off as another bust. He suffered shoulder and knee injuries in his rookie year and didn't finish the full season, going 2-8 in his 10 starts and throwing 20 interceptions. However there was one shining game against the Browns that season that gave Lions fans hope. In a shootout with Brady Quinn, Stafford came back onto the field after separating his shoulder and threw the game winning TD with no time left on the clock. That game was also shot on NFL Films here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rvIwyikbRU So there was a sliver of hope for Lions fans, but it wasn't realized in his second season, where his shoulder kept him from playing most of the season, letting veteran journeyman Shaun Hill do most of the work. But by 2011 Stafford had arrived, and to his credit has not missed a game since the 2010 season. Moving to a heavy focus on a deep passing offense, Stafford exploded, throwing for 5000 yards, 41 Touchdowns, and leading the Lions to a 10-6 record, Having a receiver like Calvin Johnson certainly didn't hurt in that regard. However, the Lions first taste of the postseason this century ended in failure, as Stafford could not outgun Drew Brees in a 45-28 loss. In 2012, Stafford threw the ball even more than he did in 2011, passing 727 times, but for less yards, only 20 TDs and throwing one more INT (17). The Lions went 4-12 that year and it was getting clear that Stafford just did not have a defense or a run game to work with. Stafford improved his efficiency numbers in 2013, but the defense and the run game were still as rough as ever and the Lions only went 7-9 after suffering a collapse in the second half of the season. With that performance Jim Schwartz was fired and the Lions were looking for a coach to turn Stafford and that offense into Gold. Jim Caldwell... was probably not the best guy for the job, but he did help Stafford become even more efficient, improving his completion percentage and lowering his high turnover rate down to about the league average. So in 2014, the Lions surged, going 11-5 as Stafford performed well in the clutch, leading 5 4th Quarter Comebacks, and had a decent backfield of Joique Bell and Reggie Bush to rely upon. However, the magic ended in the playoffs as the Lions blew a 20-10 lead to the Cowboys in the 4th quarter and there were some controversial calls that helped keep the Lions out of contention. Stafford probably had his most efficient season in 2015, completing 67.2% of his passes, throwing 32 TD's to only 13 INT's, but despite that the Lions went 7-9 and missed the playoffs. 2016 would probably be Stafford's magnum opus, the epitome of him putting his team on his back and carrying them. The Lions only went 9-7 that year, but Stafford lead 4th quarter comebacks in 8 of those games. The Lions went 9-4 in their first 13 games, but the magic ended quickly. Three straight losses ended the regular season, and a quick exit to the red hot Seahawks killed their surprising wild card appearance. Stafford came back with similar numbers in 2017, a 9-7 record, 4000+ passing yards, 29 TDs and 10 INT's, but the defense regressed and 9-7 just wasn't enough to sneak into the wild card round that year. That marked the end of the Caldwell era, and likely the end of Stafford's prime. Those are the numbers I have the data up to there, but his 2018 was rough under new coach Matt Patricia. Matt Pat follows in the long line of Patriot assistant coaches who never really learned how to coach. They try to emulate Belichick without understanding that you can't be a coach without being your own man. Didn't work for Mangini, Didn't work for McDaniels, and there is a long list of chumps to look back at and laugh at. Matt Pat may be the worst of the crew though. Between his general surliness, insistence on practicing in the snow (The Lions play indoors btw), and general my way or the highway attitude, he rubs basically everyone the wrong way, including the women he's abused. So yeah. You can see Stafford's Wins Above Average dropped a whole 0.25 games per season, and it seems likely that the trend will continue since the Lions lack a lot of talent compared to their division rivals. Stafford's real talents come from carrying his weak defenses, but he's always had weapons to facilitate shootouts. Between the hall of fame Calvin Johnson, and the excellent third down receiver in Golden Tate, he's always had a guy who can make it work. Kenny Golloday is supposed to be that guy now, but he'll need to make a big step up in his third season, or the Lions will need to dramatically shift their offensive philosophy to rely on Kerryon Johnson and the run game. Stafford has been putting the franchise on his back for 10 seasons now, but we're starting to see his back break, and the end of the Lions brief moment of success may be coming to an end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 11, 2019 (edited) 53. Marc Bulger (New Orleans Saints 2000, Atlanta Falcons 2000, St. Louis Rams 2000-2009, Baltimore Ravens 2010) 3rd Place Rams QB Career Record 41-51-0 (44.57%) 88th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 26-7-0 (78.79%) 44th out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 15-44-0 (25.42%) 63rd (T) out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 33/92 (35.87%) 101st out of 102 (+48) Wins above Average in a 16 Game Season (0.475) Bulger is an interesting QB, and one I was particularly keen on taking a closer look at when I started to do up this topic. Bulger is one of those guys who is often forgot about when you mention high quality quarterbacks, and from the way Bulger played early on, he was looking like one of the next great QB's in this league. The 2000 QB class is reviled for taking 6 guys above Tom Brady, but two of them were actually fairly good, even if they both suffered from injuries their entire career. Although Bulger's path was not nearly as streamlined as Brady's was. He was taken by the Saints in the 6th round, but between the free agent signing of Jeff Blake and Aaron Brooks breaking out, the Saints had no room for him. The Falcons were his next destination, but he only lasted a couple of weeks in camp before heading to St. Louis as a member of the practice squad. And he stayed there for all of 2000, but the Rams liked what they had in him, and kept him as an inactive 3rd QB for the entire 2001 season. In 2002 he got his opportunity after both Warner and Jaime Martin went out with injuries during a disgusting 0-5 start. Bulger took charge and won the next 5 games, bringing the Rams back into the playoff hunt after what should have been a lost season. But coach Mike Martz was committed to Warner, and went back to him once he was healthy enough to play. Predictably, the Rams lost their next three and declaring the season lost, the Rams put Bulger in to finish the season. He went 2-1 in his last 3 games, and the Rams had a new quarterback controversy. Warner had taken the Rams to the super bowl in two of the past four seasons, but Bulger won 8 out of his 9 games in the season. Well, coach Martz went with Kurt Warner once again to start the 2003 season, but after a rough loss to the Giants where Warner was concussed badly, he immediately changed course and rode out Marc Bulger, who had an incredible 2003 season, going 12-3 in the regular season, and put up a ton of big numbers (including a ton of big interceptions). Despite the great performance, the Rams were bounced in the divisional round in a heartbreaking double overtime loss to the Carolina Panthers where Bulger threw three interceptions. With Warner shipped to the Giants in 2004, the Rams were officially Bulger's team. but the collapse had been written on the wall, as the greatest show on turf was starting to dissolve due to injuries, and the best players on the Rams defense were moving to greener pastures while the youth movement failed to keep up. The Rams went 8-8 in 04, which was good enough for a wild-card berth that year, and they even upset the division winner Seahawks (who were also 8-8, blech) before losing in the divisional round again to the Falcons this time after Michael Vick put up a 40 burger on them. 2005 was where he started to suffer injuries, as his shoulder nagged him all year and he only played half the season, going 2-6 in his starts. 2006 was his best performance yet, as he put up 4300 yards, 24 TD's and only 8 INT's as he took the ailing Rams to a 8-8 record after a lot of effort. By this time Orlando Pace was a shell of himself, the defense was constantly giving up 30+ points a game, and the Rams had to struggle for wins. Needless to say, it was all downhill from there. After immediately getting a big contract, he slogged through injuries, threw more INT's than TDs and went 3-13. In 2008, he was benched for Trent Green, but after Scott Linehan was fired to let Jim Haslett become the head coach, Bulger became the starter once again. He went 2-13 as the Rams had allowed 23 or more points in 12 of 16 games that season. His completion percentage continued to plummet and it seemed clear that he was no longer the same player. He played one more season in 2009, but was placed on IR halfway through a disgusting 1-7 start, and that would be the last time he played football. He was released from the Rams in 2010, and signed as a backup on the Ravens for a season before finally calling it quits. Bulger had some incredible highs, but the team around him was just so bereft of talent that he only had two years to take advantage of what the Rams had built in that 1999 Greatest Show on Turf Season. Bulger comes onto this list with the second worst defenses out of all the players looked at, only Jeff Blake had worse teammates in that regard. And while Bulger had amazing weapons in Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, and the tandem of Steven Jackson and Marshall Faulk, the defense was so miserable that wins were nearly impossible to come by. The offensive line wasn't the same either, as Bulger was ragdolled by opposing defenses. He ends up being one of those great what if stories, because there was a lot of potential there to be an all time great, but Bulger is just another flash in the pan, a piece of trivia for Rams fans to chuckle over as they remember the dark ages of their franchise. Edited May 11, 2019 by RazorStar 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted May 11, 2019 I think something Bulger and Stafford both lacked was elite coaching. I think that's another piece of the puzzle. Hard to figure how to factor that into rankings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BJORN 679 Posted May 12, 2019 Awesome write up on Bulger, Razor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 12, 2019 52. Billy Kilmer* (San Francisco 49ers 1961-1966, New Orleans Saints 1967-1970, Washington Redskins 1971-1978) (Loses the first 5 years of career due to era cutoff) 4th Place Saints QB and 5th Place Redskins QB Career Record 63-53-3 (54.20%) 45th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 50-10-1 (82.79%) 28th out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 13-43-2 (24.14%) 72nd out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 61/119 (51.26%) 56th out of 102 (+4) Wins above Average in a 16 Game Season (0.476) From the relatively modern, to one of the oldest players to make it onto the list. Kilmer is one of the few players on this list whose career started before the merger, and his path to stardom was certainly an interesting one. He was drafted by both the AFL Chargers and the NFL 49ers, but decided to stick with the 49ers even though they had a QB entrenched as the starter anyway. He was primarily used as a running option during his time in San Francisco, as John Brodie was the main passer of the squad. But almost none of his time in San Francisco was relevant for the data on this list, so let's talk about when he moved onto the Saints, as a new member of the expansion franchise. He never quite got along in San Francisco, but New Orleans gave him a real opportunity to shine, though it took a while to make the most of it. He had to grind from the bottom of the depth chart to get into a starting role, but he managed to be the QB for the next four seasons. His record wasn't very good in his time there, but the Saints were an expansion team, and he did far better than his eventual successor, Archie Manning. The Saints went 11-28 under his tutelage, and see the writing on the wall, Kilmer demanded a trade, so he wouldn't be stuck behind one of the QBs in the 1971 draft class. The owners acquiesced, and Kilmer became a Redskin, where 10 years into his career, he finally broke out. He lead the Redskins to winning seasons for the next 6 years, although he struggled with injuries and was constantly splitting time with Hall of Famer Sonny Jurgensen early in his Redskins career. The big highlight of his career would be taking the Redskins to the super bowl in 1972, but unfortunately could not overcome the undefeated Dolphins that year. In what was a rare feat for a QB in the dead ball era, he never threw more interceptions than touchdowns during his time in Washington, but the Over the Hill Gang was always outmatched by the Cowboys and the Vikings of that era. Kilmer had a very long and eventful career, playing not only at the QB position, but runningback, receiver, and even got a few punts in here and there. He had a peculiar start, a peculiar throwing motion, but whatever was strange about him happened to work, as he nearly breaks into the top 50 on my list. Kilmer did his best work managing the game and playing efficiently, something that endeared him to hard nosed coach George Allen, and is probably the reason why he stuck around so long. In an era of haymakers and windups, Kilmer was precise and methodical. So he didn't have a great record in offensive shootouts, but he held his own in defensive struggles, and had one of the better records in those style of games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 13, 2019 51. Jake Delhomme (New Orleans Saints 1997-2002, Carolina Panthers 2003-2009, Cleveland Browns 2010, Houston Texans 2011) 2nd Place Panthers QB Career Record 62-45-0 (57.94%) 34th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 48-18-0 (72.73%) 68th out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 14-27-0 (34.15%) 22nd out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 66/107 (61.68%) 15th out of 102 (-36) Wins above Average in a 16 Game Season (0.483) Well that's it, the last of the average quarterbacks on my list. One Jake Delhomme, a QB so unworthy of notice that I'm not even going to say anything about him. Ok fine, that's not fair to the dude. Jake Delhomme's career took a rocky start, he was undrafted in 97, and ended up going to the Saints as a camp arm. Well, they liked enough of what they saw out of him to send him to NFL Europe for a few seasons, where he developed his game, and even won a championship in the developmental league. He ended up being the third string QB for the Saints from 2000 to 2002, but because he did so well in the preseason there was always a clamoring to get him onto the field. Eventually Delhomme decided that he had enough of being a backup and went to Carolina for a chance to compete. His chance came quickly, when Rodney Peete was pulled in halftime of the first game of the season. Delhomme led a 17 point comeback against the Jaguars, and his era had finally arrived in the NFL. Delhomme led 7 game winning drives throughout the season, and got the Panthers into the post season with an 11-5 record. They handled the Cowboys in the wild card round, beat the Rams in a thrilling double OT game ended by a 69 yard TD pass to Steve Smith, and choked out the Andy Reid Eagles in the conference championship in a 14-3 defensive struggle. However Delhomme could not keep the magic going against the New England Patriots in the super bowl, and his best chance at glory came short thanks to the legs of John Kasay, and Adam Vinatieri. The Panthers stayed competitive in Delhomme's time there, but had issues mustering consistent winning seasons due to a combination of injuries, poor coaching, and whatever the hell is in the water in Carolina. The Panthers would make the postseason a few more times, falling to the Seattle Seahawks in the Conference Championship in 2005, and to the Cardinals in the wild card in 2008 after Delhomme started to see age catch up with him. After seeing Delhomme play the worst game of his career against the Cardinals in 08, they decided to extend his contract for 5 years... needless to say that didn't go very well for them, as Delhomme went 4-7 in 2009, throwing 18 Interceptions to just 8 TDs, and the writing was on the wall. Delhomme was cut in the offseason, the Panthers drafted Jimmy Clausen (and Cam Newton the year after that), and Delhomme was left drifting in the breeze. Luckily when shit come down river, Cleveland is right there to pick it up. He spent a season as Cleveland's starter, before hitching a ride to Houston to end out his well traveled career. Delhomme greatly benefited from his coach's style of conservatism. John Fox never met a third down he didn't like to punt on, after all. His defenses were some of the better ones among all QB's on this list, and when the offense needed him to step up and make big plays, he was there a lot of the time, far more often than you'd remember from a guy who was basically just there to get it to Steve Smith. Though his time as a starter was very short, he made the most of his time in Carolina, and helped keep them in the competitor discussion far longer than they probably should have been. Dude was a perennial underdog, but he grinded in the league for years before finally finding a spot to make the best use of his talents. And all of that is worthy is respect. Coming up next: The Good Ones (QB's who average 0.5 - 1 Wins Per Season above Average) 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 17, 2019 50. Carson Palmer (Cincinnati Bengals 2003-2010, Oakland Raiders 2011-2012, Arizona Cardinals 2013-2017) 2nd Place Bengals QB, 5th Place Raiders QB and 2nd Place Cardinals QB Career Record 93-88-1 (51.37%) 58th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 75-11-1 (86.78%) 13th out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 18-77-0 (18.95%) 93rd out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 87/182 (47.80%) 70th out of 102 (+20) Wins above Average in a 16 Game Season (0.568) Let's kick off the new tier with a bang... I guess. We've got a lot of quarterbacks on this list, and a lot of quarterbacks taken first overall. Carson just happens to be one of those guys. His career took a lot of interesting twists and turns, and he didn't have the kind of run you'd expect from the typical first overall pick. Coming out of USC in 2003, Palmer was a hot commodity, the Trojans were developing a dynasty on the field under the tutelage of Pete Carroll, and Palmer was the first in the long line of highly drafted USC quarterbacks from that era. Palmer was also the best of those guys. One of the things that tends to help quarterbacks on this list is sitting out their rookie year, players tend to lose a lot when they're still learning the ropes, and considering how bad the Bengals were, Palmer would have lost a lot of games as a rookie, if not for Jon Kitna gratefully accepting that role. So by his sophomore season, Palmer was good and ready to get started. He took his lumps in his second season, but his passing numbers started to explode in november and december. However a knee sprain suffered against the Patriots ended his season early. If 2004 was a sign of what was to come, 2005 was when Palmer unleashed the dragon on the league, completing 67.8% of his passes, throwing 32 TDs to only 12 INTs, and leading the Bengals to an 11-5 record and a playoff berth for the first time since 1990. However the dreams and the promise of Carson Palmer died in the first round of the playoffs, as Kimo Van Oelhoffen rolled onto his knee and took him out of the game early in the first quarter. The Bengals went on to lose that game, and the recovery left Palmer a shell of what that potential could have been. He started every game in 2006 and 2007, and while the efficiency numbers were still there, the team had a propensity for making dumb mistakes at the worst times, vital throws fell just short, and intercpetions came at the most inopportune times as the Bengals tread water at .500. 2008 was a lot worse, as Palmer was dealing with nagging elbow soreness early in the season. It turns out that it was a torn ligament and he had been put on IR to recover from the damage, rather than risking Tommy John surgery to fix it. The Bengals went 0-4 in his starts, and naturally missed the playoffs once again. Palmer was shaky in 2009, but the Bengals did a lot of work to improve their defense, so taking a game manager role, Palmer was able to take the Bengals to a 10-6 record despite pedestrian numbers by his standard. However his shaky play could not get the Bengals past the first round, as they lost 24-14 to the the Jets. Palmer's struggles continued in 2010 as the defense took a giant step back. With another losing season under his belt, any goodwill that Palmer had earned with Bengals fans had been lost, and Palmer was starting to get sick of playing for the Bengals. So he proposed a trade, but the Bengals weren't biting so instead Palmer retired. Obviously that retirement didn't hold. The Bengals had drafted Palmer's successor in Andy Dalton, and after starting the season 6-2, they had no real reason to try and convince Palmer to come back. However, the Oakland Raiders came calling about Palmer's availability, since they had just lost their quarterback to an injury. Because of Palmer's relationship with then Raiders head coach Hue Jackson, the trade was easy to make as Palmer was happy, the Raiders were happy, and the Bengals grabbed a first and second round pick for the exchange, so they were happy. Palmer was immediately rushed into the starting spot and finished the season 4-5 after dealing with the growing pains of learning the new offense in just a few days. The Raiders just barely missed the playoffs on tiebreakers, because 8-8 was good enough to win the AFC West that year. 2012 ended up being a lot worse for the Raiders, as the team gave up on new head coach Dennis Allen, the defense was abysmal, and Carson couldn't outscore his opposition despite his best efforts. His season ended a little early due to the number of hits he took, and after a 4-11 season his time with the Raiders was done. However, every good play has three acts, and Palmer's saga wasn't quite finished yet. The Arizona Cardinals came calling, and the Raiders traded Palmer for a 6th round pick. He didn't disappoint, becoming the first player to throw for 4000 yards with three different franchises, and took the Cardinals to a 10-6 record, just narrowly missing the postseason. In 2014 he struggled with injuries, but was able to win all 6 games he started before he tore his ACL and was taken out for the season. The Cardinals made the postseason without him, but once again his team suffered a wild card loss without him playing. So 2015 was the year when everything came together. Palmer played the entire season, he put up a career high in yards, TD's, Yards per attempt, and passer rating, as the Cardinals steamrolled the competition on the way to a 13-3 record. He even won a playoff game against Aaron Rodgers and the Packers, that went to overtime thanks to the opposition's heroics. However, the Cardinals and Palmer's dream season ended when faced up against the juggernaut Panthers, who had went 15-1 that year. They lost 49-15, Palmer threw 4 interceptions, and the rest is history. Palmer stuck out for a few more seasons, but his defense took a big step in 2016 as they fell below .500, and injuries shortened his 2017 campaign to 7 games. After the 2017 season ended, Palmer announced his retirement, and marked the end of a winding road. Palmer's career had a lot of promise, but it was always dashed by injury at the most inopportune times. We wonder what the Bengals would have looked like if Kimo never rolled up onto Palmer's leg, because he was incredibly explosive. Still despite all the setbacks, and all of the struggles, Palmer was a resilient dude, constantly battling back against adversity, and seeming to get better every time. His career went through a lot of ups and downs, and he dealt with worse defenses than the average guy, but he still managed to end up on the top 50 of this list because of his tenacity. Palmer's split were very divided. When his defense showed up, Palmer locked it down, nearly breaking into the top 10 out of everyone on this list. However, when his defense was absent, and it happened a lot, Palmer responded in kind, falling into the bottom 10 out of all QB's looked at. It only makes sense that he ends up near the middle of the list with splits like that. Palmer will probably be forgotten about by most fans in a few years, but there was a really fascinating career here and a real warning to other highly touted QB's named Carson who lost playoff runs due to injury. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 20, 2019 49. Donovan McNabb (Philadelphia Eagles 1999-2009, Washington Redskins 2010, Minnesota Vikings 2011) 4th Place Eagles QB Career Record 105-67-1 (60.98%) 22nd out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 88-27-1 (76.29%) 53rd out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 17-40-0 (29.82%) 38th out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 116/173 (67.05%) 5th out of 102 (-44) Wins above Average in a 16 Game Season (0.591) Let's take a trip down memory lane, the year is 1999, and the Eagles are the worst team in football. They just fired their head coach, and burned everything to the ground. They're sitting pretty at second overall because the Cleveland Browns came back into the league. Andy Reid, a young, trim and fresh faced offensive guru famous for working with Brett Favre really liked what he saw out of Donovan McNabb, and convinced ownership to make the move for the Syracuse product. In hindsight, this decision was brilliant and led to years of Eagles success. At the time, Donovan McNabb instantly became more hated than Santa Claus, Michael Irvin and Ivan Drago combined in the city of Philadelphia. That reputation, despite McNabb's best efforts would never leave him. When you talk about the McNabb era all Philly fans can do is sigh and wonder what if. You look at the record above and you see that it's sterling, winning over 60% of your games in the NFL is a hard task. Then you look at those defenses and you wonder how the hell did these guys only ever make the super bowl one time, and lose at that. The eyes go straight to the head coach, and the quarterback of that coach. McNabb wasn't asked to start right away, taking time to develop his game while the Eagles started to rebuild their team. He'd get some action in the 4th quarter early on because the Eagles were often out of games by then and it didn't matter what mistakes the rookie was going to make. He started 6 of the last 7 games of the season and steadily got better as he took his lumps and the Eagles finished out the season 5-11. Apparently that was just the thing he needed because McNabb broke out in his sophomore season as the undisputed starter of the Eagles. Combining his running and passing ability, McNabb led the team to an 11-5 record, running and passing for nearly 4000 yards and 27 TDs, and ended up finishing second in the MVP voting to Marshall Faulk. He won his first playoff game against the Tampa Bay Bucs, but fell short in the divisional round to the Giants and their stout defense. McNabb threw a pick 6 and was sacked 6 times in the loss, but the optimism was sky high in Philly. McNabb would again take the Eagles to an 11-5 record, throw and run for nearly 4000 yards and 27 TD's, and make the playoffs. They beat Tampa in the wild card round again, and they won in the divisional round against the Chicago Bears. However they came up against the Greatest Show on Turf in 2001, and couldn't match blows with them, falling 29-24. It was another step forward for a gritty Eagles squad who felt like they were just one step away. 2002 was looking like the year of the Eagles, they went 7-3 thanks to McNabb's prowess and Jim Johnson's stifling defense, but McNabb suffered a leg injury that would keep him out for the regular season. his backups were able to hold the fort down the stretch, but the Eagles defense did the heavy lifting taking the Eagles to a 12-4 record and Home Field Advantage. Wanting to play in the postseason, McNabb rushed his recovery in time for the divisional round and was able to throw effectively against the Falcons in a win. However the Bucs defense was just too much to handle for a McNabb without all of his tools, and a pick 6 sealed the NFC Championship for the upstart Buccaneers. The team started off slowly in 2003, losing their first two games (against the Bucs and Patriots), but after being called out by some white asshole McNabb caught on fire down the stretch winning 10 of the last 11 games of the season, leading the league in passer rating for the second half of the season and putting the Eagles back into the postseason once again as the big favorites. However, the Packers had them down 17-14 in the divisional round, on 4th and 26 from their own 26 yard line. It was looking like another disappointing season for the Eagles until McNabb makes a perfect pass to some guy nobody had ever heard of (as was often the case in philly) 28 yards down the field and kept the drive alive. That pass killed the Packers. McNabb continued the drive, got into field goal range to force overtime, and Brett Favre did the rest throwing a interception under duress to put the Eagles in range for an easy field goal. They felt like a team of destiny, but they were proven wrong. The Carolina Panthers came to town for the conference championship and McNabb fell flat against the smothering Carolina defense, once again losing 14-3. McNabb had made his reputation as a choker in the biggest games, and the doubters just kept getting louder. They knew they needed to make a change, and they needed to get Donovan a legitimate wide receiver. Todd Pinkston, James Thrash, Freddie Mitchell... none of those guys will be remembered for anything other than being the guys McNabb was forced to throw to during his title runs. So McNabb found a player who would be inexplicably tied to him for the rest of their days. The bombastic, showboating, physical freak known only as T.O. Terrell Owens gave the Eagles that last offensive piece, the guy who would drive the offense and take them past all of the smothering defenses that killed their title runs before. 2004 was their greatest shot at glory yet, and they ran with it. McNabb put up nearly 4000 yards and 31 TD's in the air alone, with Terrell being a large recipient of those increased numbers. The Eagles flew out to a 13-1 start, only losing the last two games of the season because they decided to rest their starters for the postseason. And why not, they had everything locked up by then and they weren't playing for a perfect season. Unfortunately, they had lost Owens to an ankle injury thanks to a dirty tackle by the Cowboys, so they had to win a few playoff games without Owens. They did, first handling the Vikings and fellow 1999 QB Daunte Culpepper and then taking out the Atlanta Falcons led by phenom Michael Vick. Both wins were in dominating fashion and the Eagles found themselves in the super bowl. Problem was, the Patriots were on the other side of the bracket, and they were going for 3 in 4 years. Conspiracy theorists believe the Patriots poisoned McNabb and that's why he was handled by them. Other believe spygate was the cause of their super bowl loss. I like to be realistic and notice trends. Donovan McNabb doesn't beat good defenses in the playoffs. And though the offensive output was magnified thanks to Terrell Owens' recovery from injury and amazing performance (I'd have voted him MVP even though the Eagles did lose), the Eagles fell short to the dynasty, and never got a chance to establish their own. The Eagles never reached that pinnacle again under McNabb. And while they would get their revenge against the Patriots, it wouldn't be in McNabb's time. the beautiful marriage of McNabb and Owens broke apart, and the dream died soon after that. McNabb suffered a hernia in 2005 putting him out for the season, and the Eagles with a losing record for the first time since his rookie season. In 2006 he tore his ACL, but Jeff Garcia was able to step up for the Eagles and take them to the playoffs after going on a bit of a run. McNabb was streaky and inconsistent in 2007, combining games with perfect passer ratings with games where he got sacked 12 times or connected with the receivers ankles more often than their hands. The Eagles went 8-8 and it felt like it was it for McNabb in Philly. However, 2008 gave him one more chance to shine, and despite streaky play, and being benched due to poor play for the first time in his career, he still put up 3900 yards, 25 TDs and snuck the Eagles into a wild card berth at 9-6-1. McNabb wasn't the same guy he was in the early 2000's, but that defense was still elite as they handled the Vikings and the Giants on the way to another NFC Championship. And McNabb stepped it up for this game, he probably had the best performance of his playoff career against the Cardinals. The Eagles were down 24-6 at halftime, but McNabb took the team on his back and got them right back into the game, up 25-24 with 11 minutes to go. The problem was, nobody had an answer for Kurt Warner and Larry Fitzgerald that year. They drove down the field, got the game winning touchdown, and McNabb just could not connect with DeSean Jackson or Hank Baskett in the last minutes of the game. The Eagles lost another NFC Championship with McNabb, but this time it'd be hard pressed to put the blame solely on him. The Eagles made the playoffs one more time in 2009 with McNabb at the helm but two straight blowout losses to Dallas (week 16 and the wild card round) marked the last time McNabb would suit up for the Eagles. They would move on with Michael Vick, as McNabb was traded within the division to the Washington Redskins. McNabb's game fell off a cliff in a new environment, as he threw for more INT's than TD's in the first time in his career and ended up demoted to the third string for Rex freaking Grossman. He moved to Minnesota in 2011 as coach Frazier thought he still had some tread on the tires, but was benched for rookie Christian Ponder after a 1-5 start. Seeing the writing on the wall, after no one was willing to sign him, he officially retired in 2013. McNabb got to play under a legendary defensive coordinator. Jim Johnson's time as a defensive coordinator may have been short, but those defenses kept the Eagles in a lot of games, and a true great would have taken advantage of those moments far more often than McNabb did. That's not to say he wasn't an incredible player, but his consistency or lack there of always doomed the Eagles when it mattered the most. Sure, there were some unfortunate circumstances surrounding McNabb, getting sick for the super bowl, having his vaunted defense fold against Kurt Warner in a couple of NFC Championships, only having an elite level wide receiver for a single season, but the margin between great and elite is razor thin, and McNabb never crossed that line. He was a winner, he was a fighter, and he was able to adjust his game after blowing out his ACL, but on the biggest stages, against the absolute best, he would always fall short. And to think, the Eagles could have had Ricky Williams. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 21, 2019 48. Andy Dalton (Cincinnati Bengals 2011-Current) 1st Place Bengals QB Career Record 62-47-2 (56.76%) 38th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 49-15-0 (76.56%) 52nd out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 13-32-2 (29.79%) 39th out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 64/111 (57.66%) 27th out of 102 (-21) Wins above Average in a 16 Game Season (0.608) (0.685 after 2018 Season) From a QB who ended his career in 2011 to a player who started his career in 2011... wait, hold on these are just the same guy. Like seriously, their splits in games with good defense and bad defense are almost exactly the same, the only difference is McNabb had Jim Johnson defenses for his entire career, Dalton has had a mix of guys who vary in greatness, but all in all he still tend to be well above the norm. Dalton was the second round pick of the Cincinnati Bengals and immediately meant to replace Carson Palmer. I mentioned this in Palmer's writeup, but Dalton was winning early so the Bengals had no reason to go back to Palmer. It is rare that a rookie starts so hot out of the gates, but Dalton was a proven winner in college (breaking Sammy Baugh's TCU record for wins in a season) and his success followed him to the pros. The Bengals went 9-7 in his rookie year and snuck into the playoffs as the 6th seed. Dalton was a solid but unspectacular passer, but wasn't prone to a lot of rookie mistakes which helped get the Bengals in the chase. It probably also helped extend Marvin Lewis' career longer than it should have been. Dalton ended up facing the Houston Texans in the playoffs, but was outmatched by the emergent J.J. Watt and a tough defense in a playoff battle of rookie QB's (T.J. Yates was starting due to injuries on Matt Schaub and Matt Leinart). Still, no one expected the Bengals to be in the playoffs after losing Carson Palmer. In any case, the precedent was set, and in 2012 the Bengals found themselves making the post season again. Dalton got a little bit more efficient with the ball in the redzone, took a few more chances, and the Bengals ended up 10-6, good enough for another wild card berth... and another date with the Houston Texans. Sadly for Dalton, the last verse is the same as the first, the Texans defense smothered Dalton and the Bengals lost 19-13. Andy Dalton kept improving his numbers, breaking Palmer's records for yards and TD's in a season, and the Bengals went 11-5 in his third year, and once again found themselves in the wild card round, but this time as the home team against the Chargers. Dalton was able to throw his first touchdown pass in the post season, but turned the ball over 5 times in the second half (2 INTs, a fumble and twice on downs) and lost 27-10. Dalton's reputation was established at this point, a decent regular season quarterback with a good arm and an amazing receiver to bail him out with a strong defense. He could do enough to get you to the dance, but he'd step on your toes once you got there. Still the Bengals felt like it was worth extending his contract so he got paid the big bucks. After all he was setting records and getting them to the playoffs, you can't hate that can you? Dalton responded by leading the Bengals to a 10-5-1 record, and their 4th playoff berth in 4 years. And once again, Dalton fell flat in the postseason, falling to the Indianapolis Colts 26-10, and once again failing to generate any meaningful offense. Bengals fans were starting to get sick of this but then 2015 rolled around and I know I had hope that things were different. After all, Dalton was smashing efficiency numbers across the board. He wasn't just middle of the pack for the modern era, he was playing like a downright beast. But good things were not meant to last in Cincinnati, the testament to Cleveland's failures. In week 14 he broke his thumb on the helmet of a Steelers defensive end, taking him out before he could play in the postseason that year. The Bengals of course made it, they were 10-2 with Dalton starting and AJ McCarron merely rode the wave to get into the postseason at 12-4. They met the Steelers in the wildcard round, and lost in one of the most hilarious collapses I've seen and probably what should have been the last straw in Marvin Lewis' career. It was not, and the Bengals haven't been to the playoffs since. Once again, Pittsburgh broke Cincinnati's hopes and dreams. Dalton was still playing at a high level in 2016, but the Bengals defense regressed with Mike Zimmer's legacy gone and they went 6-9-1 as a result, despite Dalton throwing for 4000+ yards and only 8 INT's on 563 passing attempts. And in 2017 it was more of the same, as the Bengals defense just wasn't up to the same standard while Dalton continued to play efficiently and put his team in the best situation he could. His biggest highlight of that season was not what he did for his own team, but what he did for the Buffalo Bills, leading a amazing comeback against the Ravens in week 17, and eliminating them from postseason contention with a 49 yard touchdown strike to Tyler Boyd in the last minute of the game. For a brief moment in history he was the most beloved player in Buffalo Bills history. That's where my data point cuts off, but in 2018 he improved his wins above average despite having a losing season because the Bengals have been that bad on defense recently. Which is why he should actually be a little higher on this list tentatively. 2019 offers new challenges for one of the youngest quarterbacks to qualify for this list. His long time coach has finally been axed and replaced with a young QB guru (supposedly). He's dealing with another injury to his throwing hand, and there are plenty of murmurs going around that his time in Cincinnati may be coming to a close far sooner than expected. However, if his career is truly parallel to Donovan McNabb's, then you all should keep an eye out for a surprise post season appearance from the Bengals. But that's just me speculating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted May 21, 2019 Andy Dalton being one spot above McNabb... whose career does that say more about? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 25, 2019 47. Bobby Hebert (New Orleans Saints 1985-1992, Atlanta Falcons 1993-1996) 3rd Place Saints QB and 3rd Place Falcons QB Career Record 58-49-0 (54.21%) 44th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 44-13-0 (77.19%) 50th out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 14-36-0 (28.00%) 51st out 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 57/107 (53.27%) 41st out of 102 (-6) Wins above Average in a 16 Game Season (0.610) Moving on from the relatively modern, we come up with one of the heroes of the USFL. Bobby Hebert didn't start his career in the NFL, he took a different path to glory. As the QB of the Michigan Panthers he won the very first USFL championship, and after the league started to crack made it to the finals of the third and final season as a member of the Oakland Invaders/Michigan Panthers combined mess, and lost in a close battle with the Philadelphia Stars. He is the defunct's league's leading passer, and none of that matters. As a cajun boy, the Saints came a knocking once the league dissolved, and he started off as the Saints backup. While he only went 3-6 as a backup in two seasons, new coach Jim Mora liked what he saw from the man, and put him into the starting role in 1987. Around this time the Saints were building a really strong defense, known now as the Dome Patrol. Vaughan Johnson, Rickey Jackson, Pat Swilling, and Sam Mills were all starting together for the first time, and with Hebert managing the game, they went 10-2 with him starting, and 12-3 on the season overall (strike shortened season). However, the Saints very first postseason was abruptly ended by a vicious Vikings squad who dominated in every facet of the game, leading Hebert to get benched part way through the game. The Saints lost 44-10, but they were high on their first postseason appearance since their inception in 1967. The Saints once again had a winning record in 1988, but 10-6 wasn't enough to make the postseason that year. Hebert threw for 3000+ yards, and 20 TD's, and started the entire season, but was woefully outmatched against his division rivals. Hebert struggled in 1989, and after going 6-7, Jim Mora decided to pull the plug on Hebert, who had been dealing with numerous injuries all season long, including a nagging knee injury, and brought in backup John Fourcade to finish out the season. Fourcade won three straight games and the Saints finished 9-7. Hebert decided to hold out in 1990, after feeling pressure from his backup QB, and not being able to secure a deal he thought was fair from the Saints. He was unable to get a trade request either (he was looking to go to the Raiders) since ownership refused. Feeling no choice, he held out for the entire season to prove his worth. The saints were desperate so they made a trade with the Cowboys for Steve Walsh. Walsh started the entire season, the Saints went 8-8 and snuck into the playoffs as the 6th. They lost to the stifling defense of the Chicago Bears. Hebert, defeated slunk back to training in camp in 1991 but was refused because he didn't have a contract. The Saints were happy to give a new deal, worth less than what he thought he worth, but he took it because he didn't have any better options. Saints fans wanted an apology from Hebert for holding out. Hebert decided to go 20-5 in the next two seasons, leading the Saints to two more playoff berths. However, Hebert never did more than what the Saints defense gave him. He threw two costly interceptions against the Falcons in 1991 and gave them an opportunity to lead a 4th quarter comeback, and in 1992 the Eagles defense and Randall Cunnningham put up 26 points in the 4th quarter, 9 of them entirely because of Hebert's choices (a safety and a pick 6). The Saints had won a lot of games, and perhaps they would have committed to Hebert for a few more years... if the class action lawsuit he and a bunch of other players didn't go through. Hebert made 5 million in damages, and was awarded free agency for his struggles. So he was off to another team, happy to put New Orleans behind him. He signed with the Atlanta Falcons as the backup to Chris Miller, but quickly found himself in the starting role once Miller got injured in week 2. Hebert led a furious comeback against his former team, but fell just short. Hebert probably had his most efficient season, completing 61% of his passes for 3000 yards and 24 TDs, but he wasn't playing with the Dome Patrol anymore, and with a weak defensive output, the Falcons went 6-10, and were looking for answers. They found one in Jeff George. Hebert only came on in spot duty for the next two seasons, but had one final ride of glory in 1996 once the Falcons got sick of the former first overall pick. Hebert slung it a lot, threw 25 INT's to just 22 TD's, and finished the season 3-10. He decided to hang up the cleats soon after that. Hebert's splits are basically even, right at the midpoint for both good and bad defensive performances. He was a player who had a lot of guts and was well regarded by his team mates, but never was as accomplished as his peers. It may be safe to say that he was just an average guy, but he did enough to win with good defenses, and he kept some bad Falcons teams in games they had no business being in. He did his best work coming off the bench though, he really benefited from the element of surprise, and that gave his record quite a few positive adjustments over the years. Like the two players before him, he never could get over the playoff hump and never seemed to elevate his game against the truly great teams. The Cajun Cannon is just another guy when it comes to the pinnacle of this league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted May 26, 2019 On 5/21/2019 at 6:06 PM, DalaiLama4Ever said: Andy Dalton being one spot above McNabb... whose career does that say more about? Like RZ has said, McNabb's career includes the washed-up portion while Dalton hasn't yet. The list will bias towards currently active players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted May 26, 2019 Bart Starr, the undisputed #1 greatest QB of all time, passed away today at the age of 85. /list Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 27, 2019 Fun fact, if Bart Starr qualified for this list, I'd cheat and put him number one. Although if I am being honest, I may not have to cheat to do that. >_> <_< Anyway, I should be getting the next one up later tonight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 27, 2019 46. Philip Rivers (San Diego/Los Angeles Chargers 2004-Current) 3rd Place Chargers QB Career Record 109-92-0 (54.23%) 43rd out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 80-26-0 (75.47%) 59th out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 29-66-0 (30.53%) 36th out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 106/201 (52.74%) 46th out of 102 (0) Wins above Average in a 16 Game Season (0.614) (0.758 after 2018 season) Prince Philip, Laserface, Marmalard, the one, the only, the Ringless Rivers show stops here. Rivers is the very first representative from the vaunted 2004 draft class, and there is a very good reason for that, which I'll get to at the appropriate time. For now, let's talk about the NFL's current iron man, he who has not missed a start since taking over the job in 2006. Rivers was the 4th overall pick in the 2004 draft by the New York Giants, a pick made because the Chargers were dead set on drafting Eli no matter what he or his father wanted. Well there a deal in place and instead of being made before the draft or right before the pick as these things often are, this trade was made immediately following the Rivers pick. Eli Manning became a Giant, and Philip Rivers became a Charger along with some extra value in a few high draft picks. The Chargers were uncertain that Drew Brees would ever develop into a QB worth playing, so they made the move to secure a franchise QB. However, Brees felt the fire under his ass, and balled out in 2004 and 2005 while Rivers watched from the sidelines, and got a few occasional snaps here and there. His fortunes changed at the end of 2005 when Brees fumbled a snap, fell on the ball, and the entire Broncos' defensive line did the same. Brees broke his shoulder, and Rivers played out the rest of the fame. At this time, Brees was set to become a free agent and the Chargers were left with a tough decision. Wait and see if Brees recovers, or go ahead and cut ties now and put the ball in the hands of the guy you 'drafted' 4th overall. Rivers set the league on fire in 2006. The Chargers went 14-2, in large part due to Ladainian Tomlinson's hall of fame season, but Rivers had thrown 22 TDs to only 9 picks, threw for nearly 3400 yards, and led four 4th quarter comebacks to put the Chargers in the number 1 seed in a tough AFC. Unfortunately for Rivers, they came up against the New England Patriots, and well, they blew a 21-13 lead, even after intercepting Brady in the 4th quarter because Marlon McCree fumbled and returned possession to them instead of just taking a knee. So with a first year starting QB and the best runningback in football... the Chargers decided to fire their head coach. Because some teams are just that incompetent. The Chargers kept most of their talent going into 2007, but Rivers struggled a little more under a new offensive system. The Chargers still went 11-5 and won the west, and Rivers improved as the season went along, winning their last 6 games, but they would be forced to start in the wild card round that year. They smacked the Titans around in the wild card round, and managed to outduel Peyton Manning and the Colts in the divisional round, but Rivers suffered an ACL tear in the game, and LT sprained his toe, just in time to face the undefeated New England Patriots. Naturally the Chargers lost, but Rivers started the entire game because he's some kind of demented goblin who only knows how to play football and fuck. 2008 was a bit of a step back for the Chargers, but Rivers was putting up insane numbers, throwing for 4000 yards, 34 TDs and over 8.4 Yards per Attempt. They took some heartbreaking losses that season, but won 4 straight in december, and stole the AFC West from the Broncos who decided to do the exact opposite that year. Once again Rivers and Peyton faced off in the playoffs, and once again Rivers survived the matchup, winning a nailbiting over time game. However that Chargers miracle run ended when faced up against another 2004 QB, Ben Roethlisberger and his Pittsburgh Steelers. Roethlisberger was able to rely on a healthy run game, while Rivers was stuck using Darren Sproles as the only running option. Philip Rivers by this point was full of rage, and so he went and has his best season yet in 2009, throwing for 4250 yards, 28 TDs to only 9 INTs, and an astounding 8.8 Yards per Attempt, en route to a 13-3 record, and the second seed in the AFC. This time the cinderella killer was a foot fetishist and former GQ model. That's right, this was the era of the Rex Ryan and Mark Sanchez Jets. Crushed by a stifling defense and powerful run game, the Chargers folded to the Jets 17-14 as a last ditch comeback fell short. This would be the last season that the Chargers would make the post season for a while, as the team around Rivers slowly eroded in talent. Shawne Merrimen, the star pass rusher who was drafted at the same time had been busted for HGH and was never the same after that. LaDainian Tomlinson had aged and left for Gang Greener Pastures, and his receivers were often found on the injured reserve and the Chargers got worse as a result. Rivers still played out of his mind, leading the league in passing yards in 2010, but 9-7 wasn't enough to win the AFC West that year. Hell, he even lost a game in December for the first time in his career. 2011 was a struggle as the defense just kept getting worse, and Rivers had to put more and more of the load on his back, leading to quite a few costly turnovers. An 8-8 season didn't get them into the playoffs, as they lost the tiebreaker to the incredulous Broncos who just found a way to keep stealing wins. 2012 was even less efficient for Rivers as he took 49 sacks, and had the lowest YPA of his career (6.8). The Chargers went 7-9 and they fired Norval Turner, sick of the mediocrity they were showing and the wasting of Rivers' career. So 2013 brought new hope, with former Broncos Offensive coordinator becoming the Chargers new head coach (because he rode Peyton Manning's coat tails). Well the honeymoon worked out for the Chargers and Rivers. He completed 69.5% of his passes, threw 32 TD's, and led four 4th quarter comebacks as the Chargers went 9-7 and snuck into a wild card berth. They handled the Bengals deftly, but when faced up against Peyton Manning for the third time in the post season, the game swung in Manning's favour instead. The Broncos raced out to a 24-7 lead, and held it to the very end. The chargers repeated the record in 2014, Rivers played a little worse, and the Chargers fell short of qualifying for the postseason that year. Then came 2015, which was a monumental collapse. See, you can only ride talent so far, and Michael McCoy is not a good coach. Eventually players stop buying in to milquetoast, and the Chargers stumbled to their worst record in the Rivers' era, a disgusting 4-12. The defense gave up 22 or more points in all but 3 games that season, as Rivers set personal records for completions, attempts, and yards in a season as they played from behind A LOT that year. Amazingly enough, the Chargers decided to ride out McCoy for one more season. Naturally they did not get better. Sure, they won one more game and went 5-11, but they were still playing from behind nearly every single week, Rivers threw 21 interceptions that year, and lost every single game in december, something that seemed so unlikely considering how he started. McCoy was fired, and the Chargers began a rebuild under new coach Anthony Lynn. 2017 started off poorly for the Chargers, going 0-4 as they struggled with situational football, losing in key moments. However, Lynn learned from his mistakes. Rivers learned from his too and became more protective of the football, more efficient with his throws, and willing to rely on a run game with a resurgent Melvin Gordon. The Chargers went 9-3 to close out the season, but fell short of playoff contention because of convoluted tiebreaker scenarios (they were tied with the Bills, Ravens and Titans at 9-7). That's where the data point ends, but as you can see, 2018 greatly boosted Rivers' Wins Above Average, as the Chargers continued their winning ways. Rivers does fairly well in shootout situations, placing just shy of the top third of the pack, but he was put in those situations fairly often in his career. He had the benefit of sitting his first two seasons and learning the ropes before turning into a beast on the field. He also got to inherit a very talented squad, but the dream of developing with Tomlinson and coach Schottenheimer did not last more than a season. He's been stuck with mediocre offensive coordinators turned head coaches for most of his career, but now that he seems to have a guy with some actual intelligence, he's back to setting the league on fire, like he did 13 years ago. He may not have much longer left in the league, but if he continues to play at this level, you should expect him to keep climbing the list. Or he could crash and burn, father time catches everyone, fuck goblins are not excluded from that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BJORN 679 Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) Rivers, Fouts, Brees? Does Unitas make the list, Razor? I assume he is out because of era or just not counted as a Chargers QB.. From a pure-rankings standpoint, Rivers is pretty low, in my opinion. But within these parameters it makes sense. There are a lot of excuses for why he is where is, most are probably valid. I think fans and analysts still recognize that Rivers, individually, is very good, with some thinking he is great. I'd say his position here tells a story of him just being 'Good.' I think there will be a ton of QBs ahead of him that, I think will have had the luxury of being on more stable teams. I think the key argument against Rivers being great, is that he just has not risen above the shit-storm that is the Chargers to get a ring. Usually a combination of fluke-shit, injuries, and poor coaching have usually come into play. Last year, I think most people would agree or thought, the Chargers were the most talented all-around team in the AFC. Yet, they still lost to the Pats.... and that is one of those games where a great QB can over-compensate for the terrible-coaching (my opinion, of course) and Rivers just didn't get it done. Edited May 27, 2019 by BJORN Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 27, 2019 Unitas didn't qualify for the list, he was short on starts post merger, even with the 80 game restriction instead of 90. And yeah, the Chargers have suffered from a lot of terrible decisions. Keeping Rivers wasn't one of them though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 27, 2019 45. Phil Simms (New York Giants 1979-1993) 3rd Place Giants QB Career Record 100-68-0 (59.52%) 27th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 90-17-0 (84.11%) 22nd out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 10-51-0 (16.39%) 98th out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 107/168 (63.69%) 11th out of 102 (-34) Wins above Average in a 16 Game Season (0.639) Oh gods, do I have to? I uh... i defer this writeup to Jim Nantz. Phil Simms... he played basketball and that's why he was a super bowl winning QB for the Giants. What? That's not true? Alright, fine. Let's get to the meat and potatoes. You thought you could avoid Phil Simms now that his job has been taken away, but too fricking bad! Phil Simms looks like what happens when you make a person entirely out of white bread. As such, he was a perfect fit for the New York Giants in 1979, a team that had struggled to find a franchise quarterback ever since Frank Gifford was mauled by a wild eagle. Sure they had great players make stops in New York, Norm Snead, Craig Morton, even Fran Tarkenton, but none of them stayed for very long, and the Giants were hurting all across the board. Simms was a nobody from Morehead State, and yes that is the name of an actual university in the USA. However his workouts impressed not only the Giants, but the 49ers as well, who were strongly considering taking him instead of another guy you've probably never heard of. Joe Missouri or something... anyway, Simms got taken by the Giants 7th overall and that is how the dream began. Simms did fairly well his rookie season, taking the reins partway through the 5th game of the season and holding onto them all year. The Giants went 6-5 with him starting, though his play was ugly even for the time. Still, he was voted to the all rookie team, and nearly won rookie of the year if not for the play of one Ottis Anderson... we'll get back to him. The 80's marked a turbulent time for Simms, who had gone from nobody to the toast of New York. In 1980, he completed only 48% of his passes, threw more interceptions than touchdowns, and went 3-10 before being benched for Scott Brunner. In 1981, Simms went 5-5, threw a little bit better, but separated his shoulder in a game with the Redskins and missed the rest of the season. Scott Brunner was put into the starting role and the Giants won 4 out of their last 6 games to sneak into the postseason at 9-7. Brunner even won a road playoff game against the Eagles, before falling to the eventual dynastic 49ers in the divisional round. Simms didn't play in the 1982 season, tearing his ACL in a preseason game. His head coach left to go join the Alabama Crimson Tide, and Bill Parcells was brought in to right the ship. Parcells wanted nothing to do with Simms, immediately naming Brunner the starting QB. Simms demanded a trade, but he was unable to escape New York. Simms came in for spot duty once in 1983, but broke his thumb on an opponent's helmet and missed the entire season anyway. And by broke, I mean he nearly severed it off. So yeah, you could say Simms had a rocky start to his career. Giants fans hated his guts, for such a high round pick to do basically nothing for his first 5 seasons is pretty disappointing for an entitled fanbase. But Simms was encouraged to get better, and for the first time in his career, he actually decided to do some film study... yep, that was the secret. In any case Simms came into 1984 heated, prepared, and almost an entirely new man. He threw for 4000 yards, he took hits a lot better than he was doing before, and the Giants had went 9-7 thanks to the stifling defense that Parcells was building around him. Simms won his first playoff game in a defensive struggle with the Rams, but he stood no chance against the 49ers who had devoured their souls once again the divisional round. But optimism was brewing in New York, and Simms responded by winning 10 games in 1985. He still took a lot of hits, and threw a fair number of interceptions, but he was keeping the team alive to do just enough to win with their stifling defenses. The Giants even beat the 49ers in the wild card round, but stumbled on offense when they faced the legendary 85 Bears and were shut out 21-0. Then came 1986. A year in which a QB on the best team won an MVP award... while also throwing for more interceptions (22) than touchdowns (21). The Giants exploded to a 14-2 record, in a season in which they held their opponents to 20 or less points 14 times in the regular season, as well as every single game of the post season. So you could say Simms may be falsely creditted for his good work, but he did enough in those games to ensure victory, including leading 2 4th quarter comebacks against the Vikings and Saints that year. The Giants beat the piss out of the 49ers in the playoffs that year, winning 49-3, with Simms contributing 4 touchdown passes on only 9 completions. Then the Redskins came to town, and they shut them out, winning 17-0. So Simms didn't have to do much until the super bowl. But the Broncos were playing them tight early on, leading 10-9 going into the half. Of course, the wheels fell off, Simms went 22 of 25 for 268 yards and three touchdowns as the Giants scored 30 points in the second half and won 39-20. Simms went to Disney world. God I hate Phil Simms. Simms started to change his game in the late 80's, becoming more of a game manager and endeavoring to take less sacks and interceptions. Simms struggled with a few injuries in 1987 as the Giants only went 6-9 in the strike shortened 1987 season. They rebounded in 1986 to go 10-6, but they just barely missed the postseason on tiebreakers. Simms had his second straight year with a passer rating over 80 (yes that was the standard he was held to, check out everyone who had a passer rating over 80 in 2018, you'll be shocked). 1989 brought about the era of Ottis Anderson stealing all the goalline touches (as Parcells is wont to do as a coach). The Giants went 11-5, rode out their stifling defense and heavy run game to a first round bye... but they got out muscled by the Rams in a 19-13 struggle for field goals. Simms came back and showed he still had more in the tank in 1990, going 11-3, and leading the NFC in passer rating (92.7) before breaking his foot in the week 15 matchup against the Buffalo Bills. He missed the rest of the season as Jeff Hostetler lead the team through the playoffs and eventually winning a super bowl against those same Buffalo Bills. Simms lost his job to Hostetler, and with Parcells resigning as well, it seemed likely that SImms would be done in New York pretty soon. He was not. He took over late in 1991 once Hostetler suffered an injury that keep him out for the season. However he only went 1-3 in his starts, and the giants failed to make the post season again after their super bowl victory. He was made the starter for the 92 season, but only played 4 games before blowing out his shoulder and missing the rest of the season. Ray Handley was fired, and Dan Reeves was hired in his place. Reeves named Simms the starter and dumped Hostetler so they wouldn't have to deal with any QB controversy. Simms responded by leading the Giants to an 11-5 record (a season in which their defense held opponents to 20 or less points in all but one game that season) and a playoff berth. They were able to take down the Vikings in a defensive struggle, but they had no answers for Steve Young and Ricky Watters as the 49ers steamrolled them 44-3. Revenge is a dish best served eventually. The Giants decided to cut ties with Simms after the 93 season, and Simms decided to retire, figuring that quitting was a better option than the ones he had. Simms' splits are ridiculous. He has been blessed with great defenses throughout his career, and to his credit he blew very few of the games his defenses gave him to work with. 90-17 is a great record in those games, and most of those losses are from games in the 90's. However, Simms also folded like a shitty paper airplane in games where his defense was occupied. He could not challenge the 49ers or the other great offenses of the day if they got going. His 10-51 record in those games is the 5th worst among all quarterbacks in this list. He is rather fortunate that he got to play with Bill Parcells and the legendary Giants defense, because he almost certainly wouldn't have won a super bowl ring (two really) without their support. Simms is a case of having stability, job security, and amazing talent around him to carry him through. I don't want to give off the impression that he was completely worthless, he just had a far easier time of it than others on the list. So despite his high winning percentage, he's not as far up the list as other players who have won more with less, or won less with a lot less. Thanks for the write up Jeem. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted May 27, 2019 I'm just happy he's not in the booth anymore, Jesus lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 30, 2019 44. Roman Gabriel* (Los Angeles Rams 1962-1972, Philadelphia Eagles 1973-1977) (Loses the first 4 years of career due to era cutoff) 2nd Place Rams QB and 3rd Place Eagles QB Career Record 74-54-6 (57.46%) 35th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 62-11-1 (84.46%) 20th out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 12-43-5 (24.17%) 71st out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 74/134 (55.22%) 33rd out of 102 (-11) Wins above Average in a 16 Game Season (0.653) Mmm, welcome back to the 70's everyone. Where you needed facial hair like that to prove you were the manliest man this side of mansville. Let's talk about a man today, the often forgotten stalwart of the Los Angeles Rams, Roman Gabriel. Gabriel broke ground by being the first Filipino American to ever touch the field, and coming out of college he was highly regarded, taken first overall by the Oakland Raiders in 1962, and second overall by the Los Angeles Rams in the NFL draft. Since the NFL was the bigger draw at the time, Gabriel joined the Rams, a team that had struggled early on. Luckily for Gabriel, most of that data has been cut off by the study. Gabriel took some time to secure the starting role, but you could already see him outperforming his peers. In the four years he was the on again off again starter, he finished with a .500 record. The rest of the field? 4-27-2. Yeah. Needless to say, Gabriel secured the starting role for good in 1966, once George Allen became the head coach. Gabriel led the Rams to 6 straight winning seasons, including a year where he threw 24 TD's to only 7 INT's. In 1969. Gabriel was a passing virtuoso for the era, but he was also a positive threat on the ground, nailing 28 rushing TD's during his time in Los Angeles. Gabriel was a hard target to take down, and in his prime he was efficient for any era, not just the Pre Merger and Dead Ball Eras he played in. The big knock on Gabriel has always been he has never won a playoff game, and that's true. The Rams had only made it to the playoffs twice in his career, and both times, the Rams lost to the NFL's representative in the Super Bowl. Eventually the good times gave way, Gabriel played through injuries in 1971, George Allen left the Rams because of complications with the general manager, and age had caught up to the rest of the team. With a new head coach taking over in 1972, and Gabriel's injuries getting worse and worse, the Rams had their first losing season since Gabriel became the starter, and Gabriel missed some amount of time in all 14 games that season. Their one year head coach was fired, and Chuck Knox was brought in. The Rams also traded for John Hadl, thinking Gabriel might be washed up. Gabriel demanded out, and after threatening to join the Southwestern Football League, the Rams caved and traded him to the lowly Eagles. Gabriel didn't make the Eagles a contender overnight or anything, they still sucked in the 70's, but he did get them a few more wins, turning them from the league's worst, to a below average team. He set a career high in completions, attempts and yards, as the Eagles went 5-8-1. He would stay the Eagles primary starter for two more seasons but his play declined sharply, throwing interceptions at a much higher rate than usual, before falling to a backup role in 76' and 77'. He retired soon after the 77 season, ending his career as one of the greatest passers of the era, and still holding some of the Rams franchise passing records to this day (though Jared Goff seems well on his way to shattering them). Gabriel was blessed with impressive talent for most of his run with the Rams. Not so much on the offense, but he was joined by the fearsome foursome on defense, Maxie Baughan and Jack Pardee in the linebacking corps, the Rams had the defense to match any of those great teams of the late 60's, and Gabriel would sling it to keep up with their offenses. However, Gabriel's time with the Eagles ended up diminishing his positive numbers a fair deal, just because those teams were so lackluster in talent until Dick Vermeil got settled down (which was after Gabriel retired). When you talk about the quarterbacks who played in that era, Gabriel is not typically on that list. Everyone remembers Johnny Unitas, Broadway Joe Namath, and the unflappable Bart Starr, but Gabriel was a player who didn't seem to fit in the era. He was bigger, tougher, and faster than the crowd, and yet played with a sort of finesse found more at home in today's game. He was at his best when his defense was performing at a high level because he rarely put his team out of a game due to poor decision making. When his defense fared worse, which happened fairly often in Philadelphia, Gabriel struggled, but that can be seen as a combination of playing in a much tougher era to pass in along with the addition of age and injuries piling up. The man was a rare talent in this league, and finds a good spot here at 44. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted May 30, 2019 Thinking about the impact coaching has is starting to make me think Dick Vermeil is underrated. I think if he didn't need to take breaks from coaching just to be able to cope with the enormous stress of being a professional football coach, that he would have multiple rings. Everywhere he went he turned things around in really short order and everywhere he went he's had a top offense. Look at what he did with QB's that were heralded by really nobody, he turned them into pro bowlers. He turned Warner into a hall of famer. One of the great offensive coaches, gotta be top 5 right? 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 31, 2019 Vermeil was a pretty special coach, I'd have to agree. He just doesn't have these years and years of track record that some of the legends (and some real duds) do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted May 31, 2019 43. Matt Hasselbeck (Green Bay Packers 1998-2000, Seattle Seahawks 2001-2010, Tennessee Titans 2011-2012, Indianapolis Colts 2013-2015) 2nd Place Seahawks QB and 3rd Place Oilers/Titans QB Career Record 91-78-0 (53.85%) 46th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 72-14-0 (83.72%) 25th out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 19-64-0 (22.89%) 77th out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 86/169 (50.89%) 58th out of 102 (+15) Wins above Average in a 16 Game Season (0.719) Some quarterbacks are blessed with incredible skills, amazing coaching, or incredible defenses... Matt Hasselbeck has been struck by lightning twice and survived. That's all the luck this poor bastard has ever had in his life. Matt Hasselbeck has a name you will constantly spell wrong unless you train yourself to spell it right, and it's a real hassel to do this write up right. Puns and trivia aside, let's get to the meat of this quarterback, who cut his teeth as a member of the Seattle Seahawks at the turn of the century. Matt was drafted by the Green Bay Packers in the 6th round. There was never any intention for him to start behind Favre, they just need another capable mind in the QB room to bounce ideas off of. After spending the 98' season as a practice squad member, Hasselbeck was bumped into the backup role for 99' and 2000. He didn't play much, mostly coming in to kneel the ball to end games. When Mike Holmgren moved to Seattle he knew that he needed a QB, so he made a trade with the Packers, dropping a few spots in the first round and giving up a third rounder to acquire Hasselbeck from them. It was a match made in heaven, though it took a while for the wheels to get turning, as Hasselbeck and Trent Dilfer battled for playing time. Matt finished the 2002 strong, with the offense scoring 30+ points in four of their last six games and riding out his arm to three straight wins to end the season. By 2003, he had cemented himself as the Seahawks QB, and he took off running with that vote of confidence from him coach. Along with the emerging Shaun Alexander, and a powerful offensive line lead by hall of famer Walter Jones and eventual hall of famer Steve Hutchinson, the Seahawks offense tore the NFC West apart. Well, it's more like he threw for 3800 yards and led a couple of fourth quarter comebacks in a 10-6 season, the Seahawks first double digit winning season since 1986. This got them a shot at a wild card game, and Matt Hasselbeck did what most quarterbacks do in their first playoff appearance. Lose in embarrassing fashion. He took on his former team in the snow and kept the game even at the end of the 4th. The seahawks won the coin toss and Matt proudly said "We want the ball, and we're going to score." Well they traded possessions doing nothing, and 4 in game minutes later, Hasselbeck threw a routine out pass... right into Al Harris' mitts who took it back all the way for a pick 6. I guess that counts as throwing a touchdown pass? In any case, the Seahawks and their high flying offense were hungry after that, and despite losing one more game in 2004, the Seahawks won the division thanks to the rapid regression of their rival St. Louis Rams. However, that regression wasn't enough to stop the Rams from beating the Seahawks thanks to a comeback led by Marc Bulger. When the offense needed to make something happen at the end of the 4th, the Seahawks couldn't do it. 2005 was the year it was all supposed to change. Hasselbeck had his most efficient year yet, completing 65.5% of his passes, throwing 24 TD's to only 9 INT's, and bringing up his YPA to a career best 7.7. He also had the help of Shaun Alexander who had put in 1880 yards and 27 TD's on the ground, most of those TD's he probably wasn't even touched on. The Seahawks went 13-3, good for the top seed in the NFC and poised to make a real playoff run. They pulverized the Redskins and the Panthers on their way through the NFC, but Matthew Hasselbeck is a cursed soul, who is in-laws with Elizabeth Hasselbeck, so there can be no justice for this man. Super Bowl 40 saw him face to face with the daunting Steelers defense, and 7 assholes in zebra cosplay. Needless to say, no team can win against two teams at the same time. The Seahawks lost 21-10 thanks to some controversial calls, and the Seahawks blew their best chance with Hasselbeck at the helm. Still, the Seahawks continued to compete, as even though Hasslebeck struggled with leg and finger injuries through most of 2006, the NFC West had no talent to overthrow their division crown. After a miracle victory over the Cowboys in the wild card round, the Seahawks found themselves locked in a tight matchup with the Bears that went to overtime. The seahawks had first ball, but could not get themselves in the range of their kicker and chose to punt from the Bears 38 instead of trying for a field goal or a first down conversion. The Sex Cannon struck to get the Bears in field goal range, and Robbie "good as" Gould kicked the Seahawks dreams away. Hasselbeck had another good year in him in 2007, making his third pro bowl with a 3900 yard season with 28 TDs and 12 picks. By this point Shaun Alexander had fallen off a cliff in terms of talent, and Steve Hutchinson had left for purpler pastures. The Seahawks won the NFC West once again, and defeated the Redskins handily in the wild card round. However, they once again were set to head to Green Bay, where the chilly Lambeau air took the wind out of their sails, and the Seahawks were crushed 42-20. 2008 started the third act of Hasselbeck's career, the inevitable decline. He injured a nerve in his back during the preseason, which weakened the rest of his body. He went 1-6, only throwing 5 touchdowns before a concussion ended his season prematurely. This 4-12 season got Mike Holmgren fired, and the Seahawks started to spin their wheels with Jim Mora Jr. named as the head coach. They went 5-11 in 09 as Hasselbeck struggled with rib injuries, and Mora found himself retreating to the college ranks after just one season in Seattle. 2010 brought another college coach in, the esteemed Pete Caroll of USC fame. The Seahawks started the season out strong, going 4-2, and Matt looking every bit the pro bowler he once was... however that did not last, as Hasslebeck's health declined. However, in a rare twist of fate, 7-9 was enough to win the NFC West that season, and the Seahawks, despite their losing record found themselves with a home game against the 11-5 New Orleans Saints. Hasselbeck and Brees met each other stride for stride in a high octane shootout, but the game wasn't decided by either QB, but instead by a new addition to the Seahawks backfield. One Marshawn Lynch, aka Beast Mode. With the rage and ferocity of a stampeding elephant, he drove through the entirety of the Saints Defense and taunted them into the endzone on the game winning touchdown, a moment in history so loud that it registered on the Richter scale. That would be the last highlight of Hasslebeck's Seahawk career, as the Bears dispatched them in the divisional round 35-24, a score that looks much closer than it actually was. A combination of issues led to the Seahawks sudden breakup with Hasslebeck. A breakdown in negotiations brought about by money concerns, an impending lockout, and the Tennessee Titans courting the 36 year old quarterback. The Seahawks decided to move on, and the Titans picked him up to be their starter in 2011, while they developed the rookie Jake Locker behind him. The Titans had an alright season with Hass, going 9-7, having him throw for 3800 yards and actually finishing out the season, but 9-7 wasn't enough to get a playoff spot in the AFC that year, and 2012 saw a lot of pressure put on the rookie to start. Hasslebeck played a few games while Locker recovered from a shoulder injury, but the Titans finished 6-10, and the contract he was on had run out. The Indianapolis Colts came calling for a backup for their young QB Andrew Luck, and Hasslebeck responded. He didn't play much in 2013 and 2014, relishing in his backup duties, but in 2015 after Luck suffered some injuries, Hasselbeck did a remarkable job in relief, despite being 40 years old. He wasn't asked to throw much, but his awareness and pocket presence never really faded, even as he got older. The Colts missed the playoffs in 2015, but Hasslebeck finished 5-3 as the starter and decided to hang up the cleats soon after the season was done. Hasslebeck's Seahawks were a very inconsistent bunch on defense, and that trend followed him to Tennessee and Indianapolis. Which is why at the end of the day, he ends up being right around 50% for good defensive games and bad defensive games. His splits show that he performed a fair bit above average when his defense was playing well, and when his defense didn't, he wasn't an active detriment nor was he an elite winner in those situations. Hasslebeck was a player who maximized what he had, and when his teams were good, he got his teams far into the postseason chase. However despite his passing prowess, he never had a guy you would consider an elite receiver. Hasslebeck made his bread throwing to guys like Bobby Engram, Nate Burleson, Darrell Jackson, and a past his prime Deion Branch. He never had the luxury of a Terrell Owens, a Larry Fitzgerald, or a Torry Holt, all guys who played in his division during his time in Seattle. His weapons in Tennessee weren't anymore impressive. However he has always been blessed by pretty strong running games, getting Shaun Alexander in his prime for most of his time in Seattle, getting Marshawn Lynch for his last season in Seattle, and having Chris Johnson just before his wheels fell off for good. People forget how good he was for the Seahawks, and I'd like to this ranking reflects on just how valuable he really was for that team. You mad Zack? 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites