Razor's Taco Infested Best RB Rankings

[Dutch 874]

So then if it is boom or bust then why would you try to demean his talent by still saying he is a college player ? And generally the term "bust" is applied to day one prospects. Most of which pan out. More of those that do pan out are RB's.

 

The term bust usually does not get to be applies to second or third round picks unless they are top 10 in the second round.

 

Drafting is such a science now that day one prospects produce more often then fail. Dont buy it if you want but when he outperforms those guys next year it wont be me with egg on my face.

 

 

Tell me when I demeaned his talent? I never said anything about his talent if you read my post. I think you misinterpreted the meaning of me saying "I don't buy into that". I don't buy into the college hype going into the nfl; he was a college success so he will be the same in the nfl etc etc. It's more of a wait and see thing for me. Personally, I think he will be a good back in the nfl but I have to see it 1st. I said he can't be put in the category with the rest of these guys. They DO play in two different leagues; College and the NFL. He's never played in the Nfl so he can't be put in any nfl category ranking compared to players who have played in the nfl. The logic just doesn't make sense. He's ineligible by default. I never said he will or won't out perform anyone on that list, so if he does, I won't have an egg on my face.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Tell me when I demeaned his talent? I never said anything about his talent if you read my post. I think you misinterpreted the meaning of me saying "I don't buy into that". I don't buy into the college hype going into the nfl; he was a college success so he will be the same in the nfl etc etc. It's more of a wait and see thing for me. Personally, I think he will be a good back in the nfl but I have to see it 1st. I said he can't be put in the category with the rest of these guys. They DO play in two different leagues; College and the NFL. He's never played in the Nfl so he can't be put in any nfl category ranking compared to players who have played in the nfl. The logic just doesn't make sense. He's ineligible by default. I never said he will or won't out perform anyone on that list, so if he does, I won't have an egg on my face.

 

When you said he is a college player. He is not, he was drafted an is on the roster of an NFL team and listed as the starter, he is an NFL player. And to call him a "success" in college is not giving him due credit. That is why people are saying Andrew Luck is going to be great, because of HOW he dominated. There is a difference and RB's with that kind of skill set in college have ALMOST always been a success. I dont have to be brilliant to figure out that Andrew Luck is probably better now than people who are 7 year vets.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

I think the point is what happen with rookies last year or 10 years ago has NOTHING to do with these rookies.

 

Seriously ? Trends dont matter ? hmmmm.....

 

Individually probably not but the trend that more are instant contributors that is a fact not just a trend.

[Dutch 874]

When you said he is a college player. He is not, he was drafted an is on the roster of an NFL team and listed as the starter, he is an NFL player. And to call him a "success" in college is not giving him due credit. That is why people are saying Andrew Luck is going to be great, because of HOW he dominated. There is a difference and RB's with that kind of skill set in college have ALMOST always been a success. I dont have to be brilliant to figure out that Andrew Luck is probably better now than people who are 7 year vets.

 

I demeaned his talent when I said he is a college player? Yes, he was drafted, but his stats / credentials were during his college career. I called him a college success. How is that not giving him his due credit? He was a college success was he not? To get respect in the NFL you have to earn it. He has yet to play a snap against a NFL defense so he can't be rated against current NFL RBs. Sorry, I don't anoint anyone before hand; I don't count my chickens before they hatch regardless of their skill set. With all that being said, personally I think Trent Richardson will be a good back in the nfl and will be better then quite a few of the current nfl running backs; But he hasn't played in the nfl yet so they can't be compared.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

I demeaned his talent when I said he is a college player? Yes, he was drafted, but his stats / credentials were during his college career. I called him a college success. How is that not giving him his due credit? He was a college success was he not? To get respect in the NFL you have to earn it. He has yet to play a snap against a NFL defense so he can't be rated against current NFL RBs. Sorry, I don't anoint anyone before hand; I don't count my chickens before they hatch regardless of their skill set. With all that being said, personally I think Trent Richardson will be a good back in the nfl and will be better then quite a few of the current nfl running backs; But he hasn't played in the nfl yet so they can't be compared.

 

Ok. I guess that is wise maybe. Either way he does not need stats to be put into a ranking. Maybe you dont like to do it but most people do it that way because he is going to be a starting running back for an NFL team barring injury. SO to rank him among starters you are going to have to go off of talent rather than numbers.

[Dutch 874]

Either way he does not need stats to be put into a ranking. SO to rank him among starters you are going to have to go off of talent rather than numbers.

 

The bold part sounds kinda crazy imo lol.. I don't rank off talent because their can be so many hidden factors. It can be many reasons why a talented player doesn't do well in the nfl. Coaching and scheme can be among them. But I understand what you meant though. I personally won't rank anyone that hasn't done anything in the nfl yet.

[butta54 371]

Seriously ? Trends dont matter ? hmmmm.....Individually probably not but the trend that more are instant contributors that is a fact not just a trend.

 

Ummmm rookies having success in the NFL isn't a trend. And if the rate of rookie starters or whatever you would measure it as has gone up recently then I highly doubt it is by a significant amount. The league can't exist without new players coming in and being good players that goes without saying.

 

Ok. I guess that is wise maybe. Either way he does not need stats to be put into a ranking. Maybe you dont like to do it but most people do it that way because he is going to be a starting running back for an NFL team barring injury. SO to rank him among starters you are going to have to go off of talent rather than numbers.

 

This makes no sense. You don't rank people who have no production. Now production can include more than stats such as wins, talent, leadership etc. But you can't rank without production. He hasn't played in this league so you can't rank him among NFL vets period. The fact he has a starting job changes nothing. I can give you a long list of names of people who came into the NFL with a lot of hype and were THOUGHT to be a sure thing cause of their "skill set" well should and could don't hold weight in the NFL only what you do and he hasn't done ANYTHING yet.

[Dutch 874]

-Ben Tate is a very good running with all the physical tools and all the skills coming out of college and now displaying them in the NFL. I don't really like everyone trying to throw zone blocking out as a crutch for running backs. Every single team uses zone blocking in their run game and honestly it is nothing special about it. And it is really easy to stop even with average defenders who know their assignments. So don't throw dirt on his game...behind Arian Foster and producing the way he did is enough to be awarded for because even though he got touches when Foster was hurt the way he performed will allow him to get more carries this year even with a healthy Foster.

 

-Now there is no argument to be made for Reggie Bush because I have watched him closely since his last year of college. So personally watching Bush his whole pro career I can tell you that Bush sucking in New Orleans had NOTHING to do with the Saints or their system and his DECENT year in Miami had NOTHING to do with their system. Nothing in Miami is special (probably why all the coaches were fired) and their run scheme is no exception. The one and only thing that changed to help his game is Bush himself. Everything in his pro career, success and failure, has to do with nothing but him and his attitude and his ability on the field which he has not taken any type of passion to until last season. IF he holds up to that work ethic and love for the game then we can talk after next season...until then he is just another small fish as far as running backs go.

 

 

 

Every team may a have play or two for zone blocking but the Texans do it better then everyone else. Ya know, production is production. Ben Tate was making plays last year when their main RB went down. Not knocking that, but he doesn't rank higher guys like Steven Jackson, Frank Gore, and Chris Johnson. That's just crazy talk.

 

As far as Bush, I don't believe they were using him right. A players developmental process and putting them in situations to make them more effective / successful falls on the coaches. You CAN'T judge a mans passion unless you are in the locker room with them unless there are clear signs; skipping practices, giving up during the middle of a play etc. There were no public displays of his lack of passion. Saints have become more of a passing team since Sean Payton took the reigns in 2006 with Deuce McAllister being the last 1,000 yard rusher. Payton always had a multiple feature back system with several RBs with different skill sets for different packages. Reggie Bush, Chris Ivory, Mike Bell, Deuce McAllister, Aaron Stecker etc. Idk, Reggie goes to a new team and has a good season. I think that has to do with them putting him in better situations to succeed. His production went up by half then what it was for the Saints.

Edited July 11, 2012 by dutchff7

[Thanatos 2,847]

I have your #1 and #2 guys both on my FF team... in a 3-keeper league.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Yeah but thats the OLINE not CJ. CJ is i said a top 3 RB and has been. Last year shows u how skipping out OTA's and training camp can fuck up your speed. He was in shape just not football shape. This year with CJ being in shape and actually putting a bit more of weight on i think he returns to being elite. Its not like we will run the ball as much as we did last year. Our passing game will open it up for him. Hutchinson is still a upgrade over Amano and thats saying something. Hutchinson may not be in his prime but he can run block. Mawae run blocking skills didnt diminish just his pass blocking. Being old is overrated in sports nowadays. specially when its on the oline. If anything those guys normally play the longest which is crazy they always in contact every play. You cant just go off numbers though. You have to go by consistency and skill set. CJ only knock is that hes not as big as AP. People seem to think to be a good RB u have to be able to shed 5 tackles a play. Not true.

 

Oh brother, here comes the O-line excuses again.

 

CJ is not a top-3 RB, rofl.

 

Let's list the top RBs, and you tell me which are the only two you'd say he's worse than:

 

Adrian Peterson, Maurice Jones-Drew, Matt Forte, LeSean McCoy, Ray Rice, Arian Foster, Jamaal Charles.

 

Which of those guys would you say CJ is better than? Because you apparently think he's better than all of them except two.

 

No one is saying CJ isn't a good RB. He is not an elite RB. An ELITE RB runs well even behind a poor O-line. CJ was terrible the first half of the season, he is not an elite RB because of breaking into the history books in one season, just like Cam Newton is not an elite QB because of breaking into the history books for one season. Excuse him all you want, the fact is an elite RB still produces behind a shitty O-line.

 

I'll say it again.

 

Good O-line: AP, Forte, MJD, McCoy, CJ all run well.

Poor O-line: AP, Forte, MJD, McCoy all still do well, though not as well. CJ doesn't run nearly as well.

 

He's a great back, and I think Razor has him too low. But he is not elite, and he has certainly not proven he's elite.

 

Jonathan Stewart #9?? He's not even a starter.. He shares the load with Deangelo Williams and only had one 1,000 yard season.

 

Fred Jackson, Deangelo Williams, Willis McGahee, Ben Tate higher then Frank Gore, Steven Jackson and Michael Turner?? Wtf! Fred Jackson stepped it up this year definitely but he still isn't better then Gore, Turner, or Jackson. Deangelo had one break out year and one good year before he got injured. I like him but he's not up there anymore (injury plagued). Hasn't been the same since 2009.

 

Your stance on D-Will is ignorant. He was just fine last year, the reason why he doesn't go over 1k yards is because we had three running backs and Cam Newton in the backfield as well. He is just as good as he was in '09, he is simply no longer the featured back. And J-Stew is better than Angel right now, he breaks more tackles, though he doesn't have the same speed. I guess you're just looking at the stats and not watching the games.

 

Fred Jackson is above Gore and S-Jax and Turner. All three are old and turning the corners in their respective careers. Tate was a very good runner when he took over for Foster, McGahee broke out last year. There is solid reasoning behind most of the rankings, even if you don't agree with it, don't act like it's crazy, because it's not.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Thanatos19

[butta54 371]

Every team may a have play or two for zone blocking but the Texans do it better then everyone else. Ya know, production is production. Ben Tate was making plays last year when their main RB went down. Not knocking that, but he doesn't rank higher guys like Steven Jackson, Frank Gore, and Chris Johnson. That's just crazy talk.

 

As far as Bush, I don't believe they were using him right. A players developmental process and putting them in situations to make them more effective / successful falls on the coaches. You CAN'T judge a mans passion unless you are in the locker room with them unless there are clear signs; skipping practices, giving up during the middle of a play etc. There were no public displays of his lack of passion. Saints have become more of a passing team since Sean Payton took the reigns in 2006 with Deuce McAllister being the last 1,000 yard rusher. Payton always had a multiple feature back system with several RBs with different skill sets for different packages. Reggie Bush, Chris Ivory, Mike Bell, Deuce McAllister, Aaron Stecker etc. Idk, Reggie goes to a new team and has a good season. I think that has to do with them putting him in better situations to succeed. His production went up by half then what it was for the Saints.

 

 

Yeah I already said that Jackson and those guys should be way higher, no argument there.

 

Bush only improved because Bush himself improved. Again I had a VERY watchful eye on Bush and as a rookie he was given every chance to prove his skill in that system. You don't pick a player #2 if he isn't playing a position that is important to your system. This was before Brees was throwing the ball everywhere and going into that season Bush had the chance to be "the guy". What he did with that opportunity is tried to become a star too much off the field and not enough on the field. And you can judge a guys passion because actions speak louder than words. And his action was showing up on game day trying to run that same bounce it outside and beat you with my speed crap that killed in college. Over and over and over coaches, analyst, and fans said Bush needs to learn how to run like a traditional running back unless all his physical tools were useless. He never listened and he never learned. Eventually because of the great play of Brees and the underachieving play of the RBs they became more pass oriented. In Miami if you watch Bush he made the jump when he start running like a real running back. He started to go up the middle and initiate contact instead of folding. He started to recognize where the hole was and hitting it instead of dancing around. I have seen his game footage broken down from Miami compared to New Orleans the only thing that has changed is him.

[butta54 371]

Oh brother, here comes the O-line excuses again.CJ is not a top-3 RB, rofl.Let's list the top RBs, and you tell me which are the only two you'd say he's worse than:Adrian Peterson, Maurice Jones-Drew, Matt Forte, LeSean McCoy, Ray Rice, Arian Foster, Darren McFadden, Jamaal Charles.Which of those guys would you say CJ is better than? Because you apparently think he's better than all of them except two. No one is saying CJ isn't a good RB. He is not an elite RB. An ELITE RB runs well even behind a poor O-line. CJ was terrible the first half of the season, he is not an elite RB because of breaking into the history books in one season, just like Cam Newton is not an elite QB because of breaking into the history books for one season. Excuse him all you want, the fact is an elite RB still produces behind a shitty O-line.I'll say it again.Good O-line: AP, Forte, MJD, McCoy, CJ all run well.Poor O-line: AP, Forte, MJD, McCoy all still do well, though not as well. CJ doesn't run nearly as well.He's a great back, and I think Razor has him too low. But he is not elite, and he has certainly not proven he's elite.

 

Your stance on D-Will is ignorant. He was just fine last year, the reason why he doesn't go over 1k yards is because we had three running backs and Cam Newton in the backfield as well. He is just as good as he was in '09, he is simply no longer the featured back. And J-Stew is better than Angel right now, he breaks more tackles, though he doesn't have the same speed. I guess you're just looking at the stats and not watching the games.Fred Jackson is above Gore and S-Jax and Turner. All three are old and turning the corners in their respective careers. Tate was a very good runner when he took over for Foster, McGahee broke out last year. There is solid reasoning behind most of the rankings, even if you don't agree with it, don't act like it's crazy, because it's not.

 

 

First off Fred Jackson is not better than either of them and you do realize Jackson is 31 himself right?

 

Second how can you sit there and say CJ is not elite and McCoy is who has had ONE great season. SO it's ok to make him elite and not CJ. Now comparing CJ to Newton is stupid because those records are very different. He broke a ROOKIE record that FIRST YEAR players haven't done...while CJ went into the history books for something not even 10 people have done. That does make him in the conversation for elite and you say he hasn't shown he is then tell me why? Everyone has down years and his O-line was not the fault for his season...he could run great behind crap and behind good blocking the only factor is himself. His head wasn't right or his heart wasn't in it...either way he didn't bring the game, now with his head straight we have seen he has the skills to kill in rushing AND receiving AND blocking. Despite what people thing he can deliver contact and he can run up the middle so he is very complete.

[Dutch 874]

Your stance on D-Will is ignorant. He was just fine last year, the reason why he doesn't go over 1k yards is because we had three running backs and Cam Newton in the backfield as well. He is just as good as he was in '09, he is simply no longer the featured back. And J-Stew is better than Angel right now, he breaks more tackles, though he doesn't have the same speed. I guess you're just looking at the stats and not watching the games.

 

Fred Jackson is above Gore and S-Jax and Turner. All three are old and turning the corners in their respective careers. Tate was a very good runner when he took over for Foster, McGahee broke out last year. There is solid reasoning behind most of the rankings, even if you don't agree with it, don't act like it's crazy, because it's not.

 

The Panthers only have 2 running backs and Cam. It's possible to reach over 1,000 yards in a two feature back system. D-Will and J-Stewart did it in 09. There's usually a minimum amount of attempts that make players eligible for certain categories. Both of them have under 200 attempts (unlike their 09 year). They just haven't touched the ball enough to get ranked with some of these other guys imo. 155 and 142 touches is half the load of a RB in this league.

 

As far as Fred Jackson above Gore, S-Jax and Turner, that's just crazy. He did just over half a season (with no regard how he would have faired in his last 6 games; could have struggled like the Bills did) and he's better then S-Jax, Gore, and Turner. I know the hype surrounding him was crazy but damn. He hasn't done enough to be better then those guys yet. As far as them turning the corners in their respective careers, Fred Jackson is older them all 3 of them if you didn't know. He was killing it in those 10 games though.

Edited July 11, 2012 by dutchff7

[RazorStar 4,025]

But he did do better, for the first half of the season he was fighting with McCoy and MCFadden for the best runner in the league, and his receiving ability was keeping the Bills winning games they really had no business being in. Jackson's ability is what Gore and Jackson were doing in their primes, and better than what Turner was doing in his. The reason why the Bills struggled so much is they lost the heart of their offense in Jackson, and they had to shuffle their offensive line around and rely on Fitzpatrick more, when Fitzpatrick is best when his team is great around him.

 

Attempts really only tell you about the backs behind them. Ray Rice split his carries when McGahee and McClain were in the backfield, and for good reason. when washed up Ricky Williams because his partner in the backfield, he took more of the load. When you've got two guys who compliment each so well in Stewart and Williams there is absolutely no reason why you don't split their carries. Angel may have a lot more yards on 6 more carries in 4 years, but their games are complimentary to each other. Angel breaks off big carries and long touchdowns while Stewart softens up the defense, and is constantly one of the most elusive running backs in football because the first guy rarely brings him down (which is why he still has a 4.8 YPC on his career).

 

Lastly, runningback age is based more on carries than on age specifically. Jackson didn't come into the league until he was 26, so he has 3-5 less years of fatigue on his body than guys like Jackson, Gore and Turner. Jackson has just over 1000 touches in his career, Turner has just over 1500, Gore is pushing 2000, and Jackson just exceeded 2500. Considering all that and the fact that he was playing better than those guys before he got hurt, I feel more comfortable about putting him ahead of those players.

[butta54 371]

Yeah well Jackson wasn't sitting at home watching tv during those years he was still out playing professional football for other leagues and for a running back those carries are carries either way. And I understand the argument that his impact and skills might be better, but my problem is he hasn't shown that on a consistent enough bases to just give him the not. After a full season we can talk. And after repeating his production for consecutive seasons then we can talk a little more.

[RazorStar 4,025]

I get that you haven't watched the Bills play, most people don't but he has split carries in 2009 and 2010 and worked incredibly well in games where he needed to be the focal point. He's been showing what he can do for 3 years now, and he's a lot better than you're giving him credit for.

[Thanatos 2,847]

The Panthers only have 2 running backs and Cam. It's possible to reach over 1,000 yards in a two feature back system. D-Will and J-Stewart did it in 09. There's usually a minimum amount of attempts that make players eligible for certain categories. Both of them have under 200 attempts (unlike their 09 year). They just haven't touched the ball enough to get ranked with some of these other guys imo. 155 and 142 touches is half the load of a RB in this league.

 

As far as Fred Jackson above Gore, S-Jax and Turner, that's just crazy. He did just over half a season (with no regard how he would have faired in his last 6 games; could have struggled like the Bills did) and he's better then S-Jax, Gore, and Turner. I know the hype surrounding him was crazy but damn. He hasn't done enough to be better then those guys yet. As far as them turning the corners in their respective careers, Fred Jackson is older them all 3 of them if you didn't know. He was killing it in those 10 games though.

 

Oh sure its possible to happen. But it's not going to happen very often, especially not with a QB who runs the ball a lot, (for 750 yards). We had the #1 rushing attack in the league last year, as far as YPA goes, and #3 as far as pure yards.

 

Carolina's run game was the best in the league. Angel was part of that run-game. We simply don't need him to do as much as he used to have to do. He is about to join only one other person, Jim Brown, as the only players in NFL history that have above 5 yards/carry average and 1,000 career carries, (he needs 4 more carries).

 

Razor answered your question about Fred Jackson, and I guess you haven't watched the Bills over the past few seasons, lol. (Not that I can blame you on that front).

 

Second how can you sit there and say CJ is not elite and McCoy is who has had ONE great season. SO it's ok to make him elite and not CJ. Now comparing CJ to Newton is stupid because those records are very different. He broke a ROOKIE record that FIRST YEAR players haven't done...while CJ went into the history books for something not even 10 people have done. That does make him in the conversation for elite and you say he hasn't shown he is then tell me why? Everyone has down years and his O-line was not the fault for his season...he could run great behind crap and behind good blocking the only factor is himself. His head wasn't right or his heart wasn't in it...either way he didn't bring the game, now with his head straight we have seen he has the skills to kill in rushing AND receiving AND blocking. Despite what people thing he can deliver contact and he can run up the middle so he is very complete.

 

Now you're just really showing your ignorance. It's a perfectly valid comparison because it wasn't just rookie records that Cam broke.

 

Cam Newton is the only person in the history of the NFL to run for 14 TDs at the QB position. Period. Rookie or not.

 

Cam Newton is the only person in the history of the NFL to run for 500 yards and pass for 4,000 yards in one season, rookie or not.

 

The Bears and Vikings O-lines suck ass, yet Forte and AP, barring injury, always run very well. I'm not saying CJ is a bad RB, because he isn't, he's a great RB. He's simply not an elite RB, and he was well overpaid. When you demand a contract to make you one of the highest-paid players in the league, you are being paid to be a playmaker. The excuse that you have a crap O-line doesn't fly. Playmakers still make plays even if they do have crap O-lines.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Thanatos19

[butta54 371]

I get that you haven't watched the Bills play, most people don't but he has split carries in 2009 and 2010 and worked incredibly well in games where he needed to be the focal point. He's been showing what he can do for 3 years now, and he's a lot better than you're giving him credit for.

 

How does him splitting carries make him a consistent big time back? Everything you just said doesn't equal up to what I said. I already agreed he has the skills to be better than the other guys and he is a good back what more credit should I give him? I won't give him credit for consistently putting in seasons where he plays up to the high level we are claiming he is at when he hasn't done that yet. And I do watch the Bills and every other team...don't understand why everyone goes to that little statement.

 

 

Oh sure its possible to happen. But it's not going to happen very often, especially not with a QB who runs the ball a lot, (for 750 yards). We had the #1 rushing attack in the league last year, as far as YPA goes, and #3 as far as pure yards.Carolina's run game was the best in the league. Angel was part of that run-game. We simply don't need him to do as much as he used to have to do. He is about to join only one other person, Jim Brown, as the only players in NFL history that have above 5 yards/carry average and 1,000 career carries, (he needs 4 more carries).Razor answered your question about Fred Jackson, and I guess you haven't watched the Bills over the past few seasons, lol. (Not that I can blame you on that front).Now you're just really showing your ignorance. It's a perfectly valid comparison because it wasn't just rookie records that Cam broke.Cam Newton is the only person in the history of the NFL to run for 14 TDs at the QB position. Period. Rookie or not.Cam Newton is the only person in the history of the NFL to run for 500 yards and pass for 4,000 yards in one season, rookie or not.The Bears and Vikings O-lines suck ass, yet Forte and AP, barring injury, always run very well. I'm not saying CJ is a bad RB, because he isn't, he's a great RB. He's simply not an elite RB, and he was well overpaid. When you demand a contract to make you one of the highest-paid players in the league, you are being paid to be a playmaker. The excuse that you have a crap O-line doesn't fly. Playmakers still make plays even if they do have crap O-lines.

 

Ignorance? Who the hell cares what QB rushing records he has broken when that has nothing to do with CJ and the milestone of 2,000 yards rushing which is far and beyond any milestone Cam has accomplished.

 

You keep bringing up this o-line thing and I'm not sure if you notice or not but I'm not the one who brought up that excuse. And I already said they aren't the reason for his poor past season.

 

And again you aren't calling McCoy elite if you aren't calling CJ elite.

[RazorStar 4,025]

Look at the games where he has 20+ carries and you'll see he does well when he takes a large chunk of carries. And he's in the top 15 for backs in carries over the past 4 years, and only one of 16 backs with 600 carries over the past 3 seasons, so it's not like he isn't taking a small share of the load. He's consistent when he gets his carries, and he's great when he plays. If your only issue is that he needs more carries then it doesn't matter what you think of him as a back, because he is playing up to that high level consistently.

[Bay 2,003]

Fred Jackson may be 31, but he does not have a 31 year old beat up running back body.

[Dutch 874]

Oh sure its possible to happen. But it's not going to happen very often, especially not with a QB who runs the ball a lot, (for 750 yards). We had the #1 rushing attack in the league last year, as far as YPA goes, and #3 as far as pure yards.

 

Carolina's run game was the best in the league. Angel was part of that run-game. We simply don't need him to do as much as he used to have to do. He is about to join only one other person, Jim Brown, as the only players in NFL history that have above 5 yards/carry average and 1,000 career carries, (he needs 4 more carries).

 

Razor answered your question about Fred Jackson, and I guess you haven't watched the Bills over the past few seasons, lol. (Not that I can blame you on that front).

 

 

 

Now you're just really showing your ignorance. It's a perfectly valid comparison because it wasn't just rookie records that Cam broke.

 

Cam Newton is the only person in the history of the NFL to run for 14 TDs at the QB position. Period. Rookie or not.

 

Cam Newton is the only person in the history of the NFL to run for 500 yards and pass for 4,000 yards in one season, rookie or not.

 

Okay, so because I don't agree with you that Fred Jack isn't better then S-Jax and Gore, I haven't watched any Bills games? That line is becoming WAY too cliche around here. Don't make those assumptions; I watch every nfl team / game. Now, Razor was saying that he's split carries in 2009 and 2010. In 2011, he was doing a good job before he got hurt. So, technically, he has NEVER had to carry the load for a full Nfl season. That automatically takes him out the race. He's ineligible to be compared to the other guys unless he has played a FULL nfl season. Those guys are proven vets that can carry the load for a full season. Fred Jackson throughout his career has not yet. That's done.

 

Now.. The talk about Chris Johnson is getting out of control. Now in my list for top 5 discussion etc were based really off last years play (didn't include CJ2k). He had ONE off year and now he's not an elite RB? YOU must have only seen him play last year and not the previous 3 years before that. Honestly, he's the number 2 RB under Adrian Peterson unless he has another off year. No one has more rushing yards then Cj2K over the last 4 years he has been in the league(fun fact). He started off last year slow but managed to play catch up during the later half of the season.

 

As far as Cams season, you can't compare his year to a 2,000 yard rushing year (still pissed that Peyton won MVP over Cj2K that year). A 4,000 yards throwing is a pretty good year; 500 rushing yards is okay . 14 rushing tds is pretty good. All those together is pretty amazing, but it doesn't compare to a 2,000 yard rushing season. You have to add everything together as a whole including all the turnovers as well etc. That doesn't amount to a 2,000 yard season.

Edited July 11, 2012 by dutchff7

[RazorStar 4,025]

Number 2 back is insulting to Forte, Rice, MJD and quite a few other backs who come to play every single game, actually provide a threat on 3rd down, and so on. So because a back doesn't take every single rush attempt he's suddenly inelligible for being a good back? Guess Marcus Allen was just some piece of shit back then, just like Franco Harris. Chris Johnson has one off year and he isn't an elite runningback. You aren't elite in a position with a short shelf life when you have bad seasons, it's that simple. When you're running 2 yards per carry for half a season, you aren't an elite back regardless of what you've done in the past. Runningbacks fluctuate immensely year to year, and when your year is that bad, you don't deserve to be over guys who play better than you. Simple as that.

 

He may be low, but he's not second best back in the league low.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Ignorance? Who the hell cares what QB rushing records he has broken when that has nothing to do with CJ and the milestone of 2,000 yards rushing which is far and beyond any milestone Cam has accomplished.

 

You keep bringing up this o-line thing and I'm not sure if you notice or not but I'm not the one who brought up that excuse. And I already said they aren't the reason for his poor past season.

 

And again you aren't calling McCoy elite if you aren't calling CJ elite.

 

500 yards rushing and 4k yards passing. Your argument was that CJ is elite because he's done something that not even ten other people has done. Cam has done something no one in the history of the game has done.

 

And if you think McCoy has had only one good year, I suggest you look at 2010 where he also had 1600+ yards from scrimmage.

 

Okay, so because I don't agree with you that Fred Jack isn't better then S-Jax and Gore, I haven't watched any Bills games? That line is becoming WAY too cliche around here. Don't make those assumptions; I watch every nfl team / game. Now, Razor was saying that he's split carries in 2009 and 2010. In 2011, he was doing a good job before he got hurt. So, technically, he has NEVER had to carry the load for a full Nfl season. That automatically takes him out the race. He's ineligible to be compared to the other guys unless he has played a FULL nfl season. Those guys are proven vets that can carry the load for a full season. Fred Jackson throughout his career has not yet. That's done.

 

Now.. The talk about Chris Johnson is getting out of control. Now in my list for top 5 discussion etc were based really off last years play (didn't include CJ2k). He had ONE off year and now he's not an elite RB? YOU must have only seen him play last year and not the previous 3 years before that. Honestly, he's the number 2 RB under Adrian Peterson unless he has another off year. No one has more rushing yards then Cj2K over the last 4 years he has been in the league(fun fact). He started off last year slow but managed to play catch up during the later half of the season.

 

As far as Cams season, you can't compare his year to a 2,000 yard rushing year (still pissed that Peyton won MVP over Cj2K that year). A 4,000 yards throwing is a pretty good year; 500 rushing yards is okay . 14 rushing tds is pretty good. All those together is pretty amazing, but it doesn't compare to a 2,000 yard rushing season. You have to add everything together as a whole including all the turnovers as well etc. That doesn't amount to a 2,000 yard season.

 

"I watch every nfl team/game." You watch every single game in the entirety of the season, all 256 of them?

 

I'm not comparing it. I'm saying that just because someone broke a NFL record does not make them elite. Just because CJ had a 2,000 yard year doesn't make him elite, just like just because Cam had a 500 yard rushing + 4k yard passing year, something no one else had ever done, doesn't make him elite.

 

And no, the reason why you hadn't watched any Bills game is because of your reasoning. It makes it rather obvious that you don't watch many.

 

I saw CJ play before, he had good blocking and he does good. With poor blocking, he doesn't do good. That's my point. I'm not saying he's bad, but he certainly isn't #2 in the league, (lol). MJD, Rice, McCoy, Arian Foster, AP, and Forte are all better than CJ.

[Dutch 874]

Number 2 back is insulting to Forte, Rice, MJD and quite a few other backs who come to play every single game, actually provide a threat on 3rd down, and so on. So because a back doesn't take every single rush attempt he's suddenly inelligible for being a good back? Guess Marcus Allen was just some piece of shit back then, just like Franco Harris. Chris Johnson has one off year and he isn't an elite runningback. You aren't elite in a position with a short shelf life when you have bad seasons, it's that simple. When you're running 2 yards per carry for half a season, you aren't an elite back regardless of what you've done in the past. Runningbacks fluctuate immensely year to year, and when your year is that bad, you don't deserve to be over guys who play better than you. Simple as that.

 

He may be low, but he's not second best back in the league low.

 

You are twisting my words. I never said he was ineligible to being a good back. In Fred Jackson's 2009 and 2010 campaigns, he split carries and didn't carry the load of a traditional RB (attempts). He was doing good in 2011 until he got hurt. SO, until he can COMPLETE an entire season AND do well, yes, he is ineligible to be compared to the guys who HAVE carried the load for an ENTIRE season. You are making your basis off of what? He has one 1,000 yard season in his entire career. He shared carries his entire career until last year. You're making your basis off of a good start in his 2011 campaign?? He didn't even get to finish it. He can't be put in the same sentence as S-Jax, Gore, and Turner yet. His career has no structure of consistency to it yet.

 

1,000 yards for a RB isn't technically a bad season. That's a milestone every RB wants to at least make in a season. It was an under achieving season for Cj2K. So by that logic of having an off season that you aren't considered elite anymore, Phillip Rivers is no longer elite?

[RazorStar 4,025]

traditional back? The league is shifting to backs by committee, and there are very few backs who do the whole take all the carries for the team. Arian Foster doesn't have a complete career, LeSean McCoy doesn't have a complete career, are they not worthy of being in the same category? The runningback position is incredibly short lived, so going year to year is the best way to evaluate backs, because a back at 25 is not the same back at 28. A QB at his 3rd year is a lot more similar at his 7th year than a runningback is for those years. I can't say Chris Johnson is going to play like he did in 2009 because he played like he did in 2011. If he played like he did in 2010 in 2011, big difference compared to how he'd be evaluated.