Dmac's top 10 C (3-1) up

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Like the other one with PF, I followed the same method. Same rubric (kinda) and everything. These guys are all pure centers (except maybe Jefferson) in that they play the majority of there time on the court at center, and its the position I believe they fit best in.

 

Just missed it:

 

 

Nene Hilario, C, Washington Wizards

 

GP: 28, GS: 27, MPG: 30

 

PPG: 13.4, .509/0.0/.677, 55.4 TS%

 

7.4 RPG, 2.2 AST, 0.9 BPG

 

16.72 PER

 

Nene is a very good plug and play player capable of doing it all. A true jack of all trades, master of none, he exceeds at hitting the mid-range J, and is one of the more efficient post players scoring from that area well. Nene’s tough, versatile, and energetic. Does a good job of grabbing boards, and is a willing and capable passer who doesn’t turn the ball over as long as he isn’t asked to do much. The reason he’s out of the top 10 is because he has reached his ceiling, and at this point, there isn’t much more he can improve in, and while he can be relied to do everything generally well, he isn’t exceeding in any aspect.

 

 

10. Brook Lopez, C, Nets

 

GP: 5, GS 5, MPG: 27.2

 

PPG: 19.2, .494/0.0/.625, 52.7% TS

 

3.6 RPG, 1.2 AST, .8 BPG

 

21.86 PER

 

Brook Lopez is a young stud who’s already developed a pretty good offensive game, as well as he is average defensively. His shot selection can be a little spotty at times, but he has a good post game, draws double teams, draws a healthy amount of fouls a game, and scores a hefty amount of points. He’s already developed a kind of go to move in the post with the rip, and has the tendency to shoot, and make shots right over the defender’s head. His rebounding numbers aren’t pretty, but he was a great rebounder when he first entered the league, but the injury to which have started pilling up the year before this one, and Kris Humphries has affected his rebounding as of late. If Lopez can develop defensively, and get back to form as a rebounder, he will climb pretty quickly on this list.

 

 

9. Roy Hibbert, C, Indiana Pacers

 

GP: 65 GS: 65 MPG: 29.8

 

PPG: 12.8, .497/0.0/.711, 53.9 TS%

 

8.8 RPG, 1.7 AST, 2.0 BPG

 

19.37

 

Roy Hibbert is a young, rising center in the NBA with whom, every year you are seeing improvement. He cut down on the amount of fouls he commits a game, which has opened the door for more playing time, and he’s delivered. The Pacers yield the fourth-lowest efficiency in the paint, and that starts with Hibbert, though he tends to be bullied by guys who know what they are doing in the post, he is improving there as well. His offensive game isn’t the best but you can tell its improving, the one area where he could use improvement in the most is in establishing himself better in the paint area and being more assertive. He is at his worst offensively when he starts taking too many jumpshots. When watching the series with the Heat, the Pacers were at their best when the offense was going through the front court in the paint, and at their worst when the offense wasn’t. To rise on this list Hibbert will have to continue developing in the paint on both sides of the ball.

 

 

8. Joakim Noah, C, Chicago Bulls

 

GP: 64 GS: 64 MPG: 30.4

 

10.2 PPG, .509/0.0/.748, 56.2 TS%

 

9.8 RPG, 2.5 AST, 1.4 BPG

 

19.68 PER

 

Probably the most defensive versatile big man in the league, Noah has enough spring to his step to guard almost any position (albeit for a shot amount of time) in the NBA. His mobility allows him to disrupt pick-and-rolls situations, switch onto smaller guys pinch quickly, slide onto shooters curling around baseline screens and generally create havoc. His hustle and quick feet makes him a great help defender, and generally a disruptor. Noah won’t be the kind to help the team offensively through his direct scoring (at least not much) as much as he will help it indirectly through his other skills. His offensive rebounding makes him a key part of Chicago’s offense, as well as his passing skills, and his ability to hit the mid-range J gives Rose space to operate when he gets into lanes. He is still developing as an offensive player, but he could turn into a 15 point a night guy at his peak.

 

7. Al Jefferson, C, Utah Jazz

 

GP: 60 GS: 60 MPG: 33.7

 

19.0 PPG, .492/.250/.774, 52.0 TS%

 

22.87 PER

 

Offensively, Jefferson can be a juggernaut at times, although he does have the tendency to shoot too much at others. He is capable of scoring the ball consistently in the low block and has a wide variety of moves and a very impressive and hard to defend quick release off his shots. Rebounding as well, he’s among some of the best among big men, and that’s saying something because Al Jefferson plays in the same frontcourt as Favors and Millsap. When you look at Jefferson’s net offensive value, you’ll see that per 48 minutes, the Jazz play much better offensively when Jefferson is on the court then when he isn’t. So why is he not in the top 5? Because Jefferson, while being a great offensive option, and rebounder is not the same defensively. There are times where Jefferson is a liability on defense, and that isn’t what you want for the biggest man on the court. He struggles with being able to cut off pick and rolls, and he struggles to rotate to shooters, not sure if its because of lack of will, or lack of ability. Essentially, Jefferson is the exact opposite defensively in terms of impact to a team’s overall success as he is offensively.

Edited August 21, 2012 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[BwareDWare94 723]

I like your picks except for putting Noah ahead of Hibbert. Hibbert is overrated as of right now, but Joakim Noah is one of the most overrated players in the league.

[housemd 338]

Yeah,I agree with Bware..You should have switched Hibbert and Noah..I'm not in a mood for making my list so I'll just put 10 centers who I think should make the top 10..

 

Dwight Howard

Andrew Bynum

Marc Gasol

Marcin Gortat

Tyson Chandler

Al Jefferson

Greg Monroe(I consider him more of a C than a PF)

Brook Lopez

Roy Hibbert

Joakim Noah

 

I might rank them later..

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

I like your picks except for putting Noah ahead of Hibbert. Hibbert is overrated as of right now, but Joakim Noah is one of the most overrated players in the league.

 

Id take Noah all day before Hibbert. Noah hustles. He IS Chicagos second chance. He fights for rebounds, plays gritty defense and if iso can score from the low block. He doesnt have much going on offense. But he can still score. Not to mention hes got above average dribbling for his position. Noah does all the dirty work and doesnt get enough love for it.

Edited August 19, 2012 by 56AceInDaPlace

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

Yeah,I agree with Bware..You should have switched Hibbert and Noah..I'm not in a mood for making my list so I'll just put 10 centers who I think should make the top 10..

 

Dwight Howard

Andrew Bynum

Marc Gasol

Marcin Gortat

Tyson Chandler

Al Jefferson

Greg Monroe(I consider him more of a C than a PF)

Brook Lopez

Roy Hibbert

Joakim Noah

 

I might rank them later..

 

No Al Horford?? Id put him on before Lopez or Hibbert.

[housemd 338]

No Al Horford?? Id put him on before Lopez or Hibbert.

You can always forget a name of two when you make lists..I'd also put Horford in there..

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

You can always forget a name of two when you make lists..I'd also put Horford in there..

 

Thats why u get all starting centers for each team and then put the top 10 in order from there. Thats how i do it i make sure i dont leave anyone out.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Yeah,I agree with Bware..You should have switched Hibbert and Noah..I'm not in a mood for making my list so I'll just put 10 centers who I think should make the top 10..

 

Dwight Howard

Andrew Bynum

Marc Gasol

Marcin Gortat

Tyson Chandler

Al Jefferson

Greg Monroe(I consider him more of a C than a PF)

Brook Lopez

Roy Hibbert

Joakim Noah

 

I might rank them later..

 

Yep, lol. Our list is gonna look a little different. I'm interested to see where you put Gortat.

 

Id take Noah all day before Hibbert. Noah hustles. He IS Chicagos second chance. He fights for rebounds, plays gritty defense and if iso can score from the low block. He doesnt have much going on offense. But he can still score. Not to mention hes got above average dribbling for his position. Noah does all the dirty work and doesnt get enough love for it.

 

Pretty much sums up my thought. lol.

[housemd 338]

Thats why u get all starting centers for each team and then put the top 10 in order from there. Thats how i do it i make sure i dont leave anyone out.

Yeah,I know,lol..That's how I did it for PFs..I just threw these players out of my mind,wasn't looking at any rosters or stuff..

[BwareDWare94 723]

1. Howard

2. Bynum

3. Marc Gasol

4. Tyson Chandler

5. Al Jefferson

6. Al Horford

7. Marcin Gortat

8. Roy Hibbert

9. Joakim Noah

10. Brook Lopez

 

There's my list, I believe. That's from the top of my head, so I'm trying to rack my brains and make sure I ain't forgetting anybody.

 

Also, I fully expect Nikola Pekovic to make some noise this coming season if he can stay healthy. He really solidified Minnesota's frontcourt with Love. They were both collecting double doubles on a nightly basis and Pekovic is a real hustler and bruiser. I love his game.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Also, I fully expect Nikola Pekovic to make some noise this coming season if he can stay healthy. He really solidified Minnesota's frontcourt with Love. They were both collecting double doubles on a nightly basis and Pekovic is a real hustler and bruiser. I love his game.

 

Agree with you there. He's got a mean streak to him.

Edited August 19, 2012 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

 

6. Tyson Chandler, C, NYK

GP: 62 GS: 62 MPG: 33.3

11.3 PPG .679/0.0/.689, 70.8 TS%

9.9 RPG, 0.9 AST, 1.4 BPG

18.70 PER

 

What gets Chandler this high on the list is his defense above all else. An argument can be made for Chandler being the second or third best defensive player in the NBA. With Chandler, you get exactly what you get with Howard, without the scoring, elite shot blocking and the elite instincts. Chandler is the type of defensive player that when you plug in, no matter who he’s up against, he can essentially create a wall between him and the hoop. Chandler at his size is capable of crouching and sliding step by step with some of the best scorers, as well as he is lethal rotating from player to player, and still makes it in time to grab the board. Was the front man (along with Iman Shumpert) in turning the NYK’s defensive rating from 21st in the league, to 4th. Offensively there are few big men who grab as many offensive boards as he does, and he is at his best in a pick and roll situation. He isn’t a great scorer, but when you can grab a lot of offensive boards and contribute around 10 points a game while playing great defense, you are a valuable asset.

 

5. Andrew Bogut, C, GS Warriors

GP: 12 GS: 12 MPG: 30.4

11.3 PPG, .449/0.0/.609, 46.5 TS%

8.3 RPG, 2.6 AST, 2.0 BPG

14.85 PER

 

Bogut being where he is begins and ends with him staying healthy, he usually isn’t for more than 65 games, but those 65 games he gives you are some of the best by any center in the league. Defensively, Bogut is easily top five among centers in terms of impact when he's on the court. In the 2011 season, The Milwaukee Bucks scored 4 less points per 100 possessions with Bogut on the court compared to when he wasn't, to put that into perspective, Howard won DPOTY that same season, gave up an identical amount of points (No stats are available for 2012 as Bogut was hurt and eventually traded). Over Bogut's last four seasons (including this past one before he was traded), the Milwaukee Bucks defensive efficiency were 3rd in 10-11, and 4th in 09-10, those were the seasons where he was healthy for the majority of the games. In 08-09 where he missed more then half the season, and in 2011-2012 where he played 12 games, got injured and was traded they were ranked 16th and 17th. Bogut is a great disruptor, shot blocker, and does a good job of rotating, as well as grab a lot of rebounds, and impacts the team's overall rebounding better then almost any center not named Bynum, Howard, Chandler.

 

His scoring was vastly improving before he broke his hand in a devastating fashion that he is still somewhat recovering from to go along with the injury on his leg from last season. No doubt, two years removed now from that injury to his hand he will be much improved, he has developed quite the offensive arsenal, and it happened often last season and the season before that where he'd pull off a great move and not be able to finish. Bogut's ranking is with the assumption that he will recover well from his injury, and we will see him continue to grow offensively and will continue to bring the defensive intensity that you would normally expect from him.

 

4. Marc Gasol, C, MEM Grizzlies

GP: 65 GS: 65 MPG: 36.4

14.6 PPG, .482/.083/.748, 54.1 TS%

8.9 RPG, 3.1 AST, 1.9 BPG

18.46 PER

 

Marc Gasol is on the cusp of being a top 3 center, but he just misses it and rounds out at number four. He is finally coming into his own after spending most of his time in the shadows of Zach Randolph. Like Bynum, Gasol has an array of offensive moves, from moves he can beat you with in the post, to the 18 foot J that he’s developed. But unlike Bynum, you can toss Gasol the ball on the high post area, and he will know what to do with it.

 

He isn’t an elite rebounder, but considering who he plays next to, the fact that he’s able to put up 9 rebounds a game shouldn’t go unnoticed. He’s a willing and good passer, and he has pretty high basketball IQ, and unlike his older brother, he isn’t afraid to get dirty. Defensively, he’s no guru, but he is very stout, and his mobility allows him to be able to roam around the paint, he also knows how to use his size to disrupt shots. Gasol will probably get more and more touches as his role increases and Zach’s decreases (assumption), and he is still young with room, for improvement, he could very well end up jumping over the man ahead of him.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

Brook Lopez as a top ten center makes me a sad panda.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I like him too much as a player to keep him out.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Glad smart members are giving Marcin Gortat the love he deserves because Dmac won't.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

^You never know... He could sneak in there in the top 3.... lol...

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Haha.

 

Funny though because Gortat has a higher PER than all but two of these guys listed already... And Lopez' PER should be invalid on account of playing 5 fucking games... lol.

 

Only one player has a better TS% than Gortat (listed so far).

 

Only two players score more points than Gortat per game.. And one of them, again, is Lopez who played 5 games.

 

And Marcin Gortat also leads this list in rebounds per game.

 

/Educated

Edited August 20, 2012 by Favre4Ever

[housemd 338]

Yep, lol. Our list is gonna look a little different. I'm interested to see where you put Gortat.

 

 

 

Pretty much sums up my thought. lol.

10. Brook Lopez

9. Joakim Noah

8. Roy Hibbert

7. Al Horford

6. Tyson Chandler

5. Al Jefferson

4. Marc Gasol

3. Marcin Gortat

2. Andrew Bynum

1. Dwight Howard

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

 

Haha.

 

 

 

Funny though because Gortat has a higher PER than all but two of these guys listed already... And Lopez' PER should be invalid on account of playing 5 fucking games... lol.

 

 

 

Only one player has a better TS% than Gortat (listed so far).

 

 

 

Only two players score more points than Gortat per game.. And one of them, again, is Lopez who played 5 games.

 

 

 

And Marcin Gortat also leads this list in rebounds per game.

 

 

 

/Educated

 

 

I'd be cautious of putting too much stock in TS%, and PER as it relates to centers. The PER doesn't measure defensive prowess, it just measures offensive output+rebounding and steals, but steals don't mean anything for the 4 or the 5. It penalizes players for committing turnovers harshly because its a loss of one full possession. Therefor if you are a player who is asked to handle the ball a lot more then the average center (Gasol), or create your own offense, the PER can hurt more then help. The PER system also hurts players who don't shoot very often because the field goals attempted is weighed into the equation as well, regardless of whether the shot falls or not, and if you don't score very many points, that's another area where it hurts. Essentially, it can hurt a player because that player is efficient just because he doesn't take, or doesn't make a certain amount of points.

 

So defensive specialists, or guys that don't take too many shots, which is a vast group of guys including Chandler, and Noah are penalized a lot. Whereas guys who take a lot of shots, Al Jefferson and Lopez for example are rewarded.

 

The true shooting percentage is also kinda a fallacy stat for some centers because it measures how efficient a shooter you are. So guys like Chandler, or DeAndre Jordan, Pekovic who don't take that many shots, but, they make all the ones they do take because they are usually dunks and alley-hoops grade out the best. It does account for free throw percentage and most of these guys suck at shooting free throws, but 1 free throw = .44 of a possession in the TS equation, and when you are averaging 70% from the field, averaging 50 something in FT% isn't gonna hurt your TS% that much. And since a large part of Gortat's game comes from being assisted, it opens up the door for some easier baskets then most. Which opens up the door for technically being a more efficient shooter.

 

But as for Gortat personally;

 

I'm not totally sold on Gortat yet because a ginormous amount of his points come off of being assisted. I'm going to wait to see how he performs offensively with Nash gone, and being replaced.

 

Almost 80% of his offense came from being assisted.

 

33% (120 more shots then from any other scoring) of his offense comes from the pick and roll with Steve Nash.

 

20% of the remainder of his shots came from cutting into the lane and once again being assisted.

 

His true shooting % is better then a lot of the players on this list, but a lot of players on this list also don't get fed the ball in position to score as much as Gortat does.

 

PPG can be another spotty thing in all this because most of these guys have much different roles, some are asked to just clear the board, whereas others are asked to run certain plays. Tyson Chandler has amazing leaping ability, is very mobile, and scores most of his points on dunks and lay-ups, if the offense the NYK ran included a lot of pick and roll situations to the center, who to say he wouldn't be putting up 15 a game?

 

And yea he's a very good rebounder (defensive rebounding for the most part), but a lot of guys on this list are good/great/elite rebounders. Him averaging .1 more then Chandler, .2 more then Noah, .5 more then Jefferson doesn't really mean much either.

 

10. Brook Lopez

9. Joakim Noah

8. Roy Hibbert

7. Al Horford

6. Tyson Chandler

5. Al Jefferson

4. Marc Gasol

3. Marcin Gortat

2. Andrew Bynum

1. Dwight Howard

 

For the obvious reason stated above, I don't agree with having Gortat all the way at #3. But this is a good list yo.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

Haha.

 

Funny though because Gortat has a higher PER than all but two of these guys listed already... And Lopez' PER should be invalid on account of playing 5 fucking games... lol.

 

Only one player has a better TS% than Gortat (listed so far).

 

Only two players score more points than Gortat per game.. And one of them, again, is Lopez who played 5 games.

 

And Marcin Gortat also leads this list in rebounds per game.

 

/Educated

 

Gortat deserves to be in there, he is a beast. Lopez is a soft stiff with some inflated scoring numbers.

[BwareDWare94 723]

I tend to forget Andrew Bogut when he's in one of his injury lulls. He is certainly top 5 when healthy, and after Yao went down, I thought he would establish himself as top 2 if he could remain on the court.

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

Gortat could be at like #9 or #10. Theres no way im puttin him at #3 though.

[housemd 338]

Gortat could be at like #9 or #10. Theres no way im puttin him at #3 though.

I simply like his game too much to rank him that low..

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I'd be cautious of putting too much stock in TS%, and PER as it relates to centers.

 

 

 

I just posted the stats that you were posting... lol.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I tend to forget Andrew Bogut when he's in one of his injury lulls. He is certainly top 5 when healthy, and after Yao went down, I thought he would establish himself as top 2 if he could remain on the court.

 

Yea, I wasn't gonna rank him too high at first, but then I remembered that the guy probably ranked #2 on my list, and everyone else has only played 65+ games as a starter in the NBA once in his career.

 

I just posted the stats that you were posting... lol.

 

I just put the stats up for more of... Formality I guess, and because efficiency still plays a role in how good a player is. But it isn't something that I myself use all that often when comparing bigs outside of most basic stats.